Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: acepilot2 on March 19, 2004, 06:56:19 PM
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IMO they are alittle too overdone and dramtic. I think it should just kinda be like a big blotch in the front section of the canopy.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/135_1079744133_oil1.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/135_1079744153_oil2.jpg)
those streaks run all the way down to the back of the canopy, just too lazy to snap a pic of it.
IMO should be more blotchy and concentrated in the front of the canopy like this:
(http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421460656/0.jpg)
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LOL do you think the oil is inside or outside the canopy? in the slipstream or out of it?
sorry, that's what oil would do in RL, you know like a pilot wound :D
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the part i dont like about it is that it is too long.
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I think AH cockpit damage graphics look far more realistic than Il-2s. The density of those bullet holes is laughably high in Il-2. A splotches of oil do not look as realistic as streaks.
Pyro did say that there was work to be done on the oil graphics.
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in the readme for beta 18 they said it's a work in progress....
P-51D shows oil on the canopy when the engine is damaged. This is still being worked on and
will appear on the rest of the applicable planes.
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It's the big blotches of oil that are less-realistic and the streaks of oil that more-realistic, as eagler and karnak pointed out.
Too long? in most cases the oil would start at the engine and smear it's way to the tail... it's not too long, probably too short ;)
What's pretty is beside the point for me.
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hey he used my IL2 PICTURE!!! lol i dont care tho. I agree it should look more like il2
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Ever look closely at an old leaky prop plane?
Next time you see one, look at the oil streaks from the motor and gear. Even airplanes that are pretty slow have oild streaks that run straight back. That's what oil does at 100 to 500+ mph.
eskimo
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Didn't HT lose a load of oil in his own plane recently? Even if it didn't go over the canopy I should think it provided enough inspiration to get a good approximation.
I like it. The Il-2 oil effects always looked like they were applied to a stationary plane.
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In a book I am reading a FW 190 pilot, Hauptman Erhard Jähnert Staffelkäpitan of 2./Schlachtgeschwader 3, recounts his 599th mission flying a FW 190F-8 over of the Kurland Bridgehead:
On 16 February 1945, I attacked enemy armor in my Focke Wolf 190. It had already gotten quite close to our main line of resistance in foggy weather about 10 kilometers southeast of Tukkum.
Three of my comrades closed up with me when I designated the target. We dove on the group of armor and fired our rockets. I was fortunate enough to knock out three enemy tanks in three passes. Three more were crippled by my comrades. Since I expended my rockets, I tried to destroy the remaining tanks, which had already turned back, with my on-board weapons. In the process my aircraft took one or two hits in the lubrication system and also in the compass connections.
Orientation was no longer possible. Vision forward was prevented by the oil film that built up on the front windshield. The cockpit canopy was also stuck, so I sat in my aircraft as if I were in a coffin.
When the engine oil ran out and the engine temperature rose, I had to make an emergency landing. I could only see to the rear, so, with a “look back” I landed on an open field near an abandoned artillery position about 30 meters from a farmstead and 80 meters from a high-tension electric line.
I am certain that my landing rates as a most extraordinary piece of good luck in aviation.
I had neither pistol nor identification with me. When I saw several soldiers in camouflage parkas draw near I grabbed the flare pistol from the cockpit and waited.
Again my luck held. They were Latvians from one of the two Latvian Waffen-SS divisions. They took me to their battalion command post.
I was well received in the grenadiers’ bunker and fed. Soon I was driven back to my airfield.
Incidentally, Erhard Jähnert received the knights cross on 18 May 1943 as a Leutnant flying stukas while attached to Stukageschwader 4.
Later as Staffelkäpitan of 9./Stukageschwader 2, he took part in that squadrons greatest success when it sank 3 soviet destroyers in the Black Sea south of the Crimea.
He was later removed from combat duty and assigned as an instructor. In the fall of 1944 at his own personal request he was transferred to the Kurland Bridgehead and made Staffelkäpitan of 2./Schlachtgeschwader 3.
He destroyed 25 Soviet tanks while flying the FW 190F-8 over Kurland.. On the day of surrender he took what passengers he could and flew out of Kurland and landed at Flensburg. He was put up for the oak leaves but in the hectic days just prior to German capitulation the award never went through.
I include alot of extraneous details because many folks have never read anything about luftwaffe ground attack pilots late in the war.
One other thing, the incident above took place over Kurland in winter and it could be the rapid cooling of the oil thickened it. The Germans had trouble with oil during severe cold weather and with help from captured soviets the made adjustments to their winter oil cultures. Like adding diesel to thin it out etc.
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One other thing...
Jähnert could be making it up, afterall he claims to have used rockets on a 190F-8!!! :eek:
:D
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Originally posted by Batz
One other thing...
Jähnert could be making it up, afterall he claims to have used rockets on a 190F-8!!! :eek:
:D
He made it up, unfortunately.
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In the 109, the pilot could spray fuel to the windshield to clear it.
HTC, do you have plans to model this? :)
Camo
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hm..maybe I was wrong about this oil thing. Then again, I have never had an oil hit in the plane I fly...
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I kind of liked the oil effect in b17 2, if your oil was hit it would leave a very thick cover oil on the front of the canopy and would leave lots of streaks along the sides.
Oil would also smear along the length of the plane with looked rather cool.
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HT knows what oil does when it gets out on the skin :rofl :rofl
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The work we have yet to do on the oil is mainly cosmetic. The basic style won't be changing. We did limit the amount of oil displayed because we didn't want to completely obscure visibility. I have to strongly disagree with the idea that oil leaks should appear as blotches. That's what they look like when you're trying to wipe them up.
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What Pyro said.
Ever seen a motorcycle crash where the sump has been knocked off? Streaks and streaks and streaks of oil all over the bike and whatever it hit. The faster the bike was going at the time, the more streaky it gets.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-9/48257/20029211530-0-Swoop.gif)
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I've been in and seen a bonanza where the oilcap was not put on correctly, luckly we were just taking off so once around the patch rectified the problem, but the oil most definately streaks and if the problem goes on long enough the windshield will be covered in a film and all vis will be lost. Only prob here is the streaks are not spreading out and covering the whole windshield. As Pyro siad they wont be doing that. It's too bad tho, because over time the windshield should become obscured.
WTG HT
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That blotchy look like in IL2 is more like what you'd see if a fire were in the cockpit and left smoke patches all over. My only thing is was engine oil really that dark back then? I guess that could be oil from a really over worked engine. Any time we take samples on our birds it isn't that dark. It has more of a light golden brown look to it. It smells worse than it looks though..:D
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Just been looking at those screen shots again, and its got me thinking that the oil streaks look a little too thin..
Anyone else think this?
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Another reason to fly the P-38L, no oil on the canopy.
ack-ack
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Another reason to fly the P-38L, no oil on the canopy.
ack-ack
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Yeah the oil streaks are a little too thin, they would spread as they streak, but I guess that is the balance they want between not totally obscuring the windshield as it would if it acurately spread. The ones to the left look good.
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I think ht has had first hand experience with oil on the windshield but i could be mistaken.
overall though odd lookign compared to the artistic look of il2 the full canopy coverage is more accurate.
i have flown acrobatic aircraft inverted or in vertical maneuvers when they didnt have inverted oil systems.
even though i only did it for a moment when i landed and looked at the plane the underside was coated with oil even though it wasnt a ton of oil it still covered the whole underside of the plane and eventhe side of the plane as it followed the spiralling slipstream over the tail.
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oops double post
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lol tripple post
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Here's a pic from a crashed Jug that had an oil leak. It could well have been what brought it down. I offer it FWIW as it's obviously not the last word on this ;).
This pic is from page 353 of William Wolf's American Fighter-Bombers in World War II: USAAF Jabos in the MTO and ETO.
(http://people.delphiforums.com/jtweller/OilLeak.jpg)
There are several things to note here...
1. The Jug's oil tank contained 28.6 gallons and was mounted on the firewall at top center, not far in front of the cockpit. There does not appear to be anywhere near 28.6 gallons of oil, nor even much evidence of oil at all, visible on the plane.
2. The oil on the tail is dark but not opaque. Note that you can still read the serial number through it.
3. The oil on the tail seems to have come from flying droplets in the airstream rather than from running along the fuselage. Note that there is no big oil streak down the fuselage side. Also note that guys are leaning on the fuselage side up forward, which I doubt they'd do if it was a big, oily mess.
4. The droplets hit the only frontal area of the tail, it's leading edges. From there it streaked, but not that far, only about 1/2 way from the leading edge to the control surface hinges. But this is in the boundary layer where airspeeds are low, so is probably not representative of something angled right into the oil flow, like the windshield.
5. Unfortunately, you can't see the windshield. You can, however, see the bubble canopy. It's not too clear--you can't see the guy on the left wing through it--but it's hard to tell if that's from oil or just sun glare. Note the angle of the shadow of the tail, which seems to indicate that the canopy is reflecting right back at the camera.
6. There's something dark on the upper left wing that's not on the upper right wing. However, I think that's just dirt because it's so far outboard. I figure the plane bellied in from the left side of the photo and dragged the left wing at some point, which spun it around and plowed up dirt which landed on the left wing.
7. I think the pilot's still in there. The canopy's still closed and the red cross jeeps are still there.
8. No telling what the left side of the fuselage looks like. However, even if oil streaked all over it (which might be why everybody's on the right side), it didn't reach the trailing edge of the tail.
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Double Post
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Originally posted by Batz
One other thing...
Jähnert could be making it up, afterall he claims to have used rockets on a 190F-8!!! :eek:
:D
Actually, the Germans did have some anti-tank rockets that they used on Fs. They just didn't have very many of them.
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Yeah I know, we have asked about them for years. Note the smilies :)
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You know, all this talk about what the oil's supposed to look like but it's all from your own plane. Has anybody noticed if you also get oil from other planes? I frequently read about that happening. Some guy would plug the nme and have to break off himself and maybe crash due to getting the nme's oil on his windshield.
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Otto Kittel almost didn't get his 190 because of oil spray from an Il2 he shot down.
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Originally posted by Pyro
The work we have yet to do on the oil is mainly cosmetic. The basic style won't be changing. We did limit the amount of oil displayed because we didn't want to completely obscure visibility. I have to strongly disagree with the idea that oil leaks should appear as blotches. That's what they look like when you're trying to wipe them up.
I agree with your dissagreement :D
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Didn't 109s have a fuel-spray to clear off oil gunk from the windshield, when that happens??
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Didn't 109s have a fuel-spray to clear off oil gunk from the windshield, when that happens??
Yes.
Camo
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Didn't 109s have a fuel-spray to clear off oil gunk from the windshield, when that happens??
and then it run out fuel :D
I know it was not a clever contribution :)
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... or catch fire.
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Here's a couple pics. The first shows some minor oil leakage and how the oil streaks back from its point of origin. The second picture shows a catastrophic oil leak(if you could call it a leak) from what looks like the top cylinder being blown off. What we want the oil hit effect to look like is something greater than what would be caused by a loose fitting, and something lesser than having your entire oil capacity covering your plane.
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/pyro/oilleak.jpg)
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/pyro/oilhit.jpg)
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I think they're just repainting the plane :)
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Bet the pilot of that jug pyro posted had to fly the plane with his feet.
lets see how many get that joke...
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Great Jug shot. Remember he landed the sucker. Prolly with his head outside the canopy to see.
Bet ya he was in full "hunch" with his nose an inch from his moniter...
Wasn't it "Secrets of the Luftwaffe" that had oil streaks that progressively covered the wind screen ?? If you flew too long it got to the point where you could no longer see.
If I remember correctly they did a similar thing with engine fires, they just kept getting worse..
Both would be fantastic additions.
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LOL, yeah in that jusg shot there is no streaking. I wonder how long it took to blanket that thing like that?
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Actually, if you look closely at the Jug picture, you can see some streaking on the side where a massive quantity of oil didn't dump out. You can even see it curve with the airflow and the effect of the prop vortex and wing on the airflow down the side of the fuselage.
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Yeah, sorry Pyro, I was going for the joke that this guy prolly saw very little streaking, maybe some in the begining, before his canopy was completely blanketed.
Of course there was streaking, I agree. If that thing was moving it was streaking.
:D
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On multi engined aircraft like the P-38, Mosquito and Bf110, the oil would not have suffient lateral velocity to overcome to headwind and reach the cockpit, correct?
It would just streak bank over the cowling and wing, correct?
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Originally posted by mars01
Of course there was streaking
yeah Lets all streak!!!
whooo!
streak!!!!
whooo!!!!
Muhahahaha
<--- piss poor attemt at will farrell impersonatin LOL
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Ewwww, that's a nasty oil leakage!
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Look at the cowling on the Jug. Looks like something might have gone through the top of it. Be it a rod, round, etc.
Here's a few pics I snapped this morning for an oil leak reference.
(http://home.earthlink.net/~revolution/pics/cnxt0024.jpg)
(http://home.earthlink.net/~revolution/pics/cnxt0025.jpg)
I think HT is on the right track. Oil is going to streak, not blotch. However, I think at altitude the oil would be less dark as it should be somewhat fresh and hadn't been in contact with dirt yet, and the streaks should be more narrow. Not sure how/if it would streak on the back of the canopy. I couldn't find anything this morning that had streaks all the way to the empannage.
My .02...more narrow and less opaque.