Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: JB73 on March 19, 2004, 09:13:18 PM

Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: JB73 on March 19, 2004, 09:13:18 PM
<> festercitibria or whatever...

great maps and all ..

but WTF is with the vbases?!?!

just took 7 guys in to kill a VH base to capture it (in our mainland) FKNG impossible.

5 GD VH hangars?!?!?!

sorry HTC but that's lame as cht!

so the daytime gangbangers have enoug to take a vbase because there isn't enough to defend....

the rest of the day you cant get it back!??! im mean really. 5 hangars that are damn near indestructible ( i sent in 3 ju88 formations 2/3 bombs hit DIRECTLY on top of the hangars 500kg bombs) and not 1 FUKNG hangar destroyed. in the mean time 5 flaks spawn.






im mean seriously. there is no chance except 40+ Jabo's attacking a VHbase within seconds of eachother to destroy it with a possibility of capture.

why fukn bother having airfield bases on maps?!?! takes no effort to capture one in comparison.











Aces Low from now on. unstopable GV bases will run across the map during the day when few are online.. only to spawn to airfields unstoppable and capture them too.


<<>> HTC creations you put out a great product, but IMHO this recent change just destroys the game. why bother flying at all?!?!? i can spawn endless GV's with ZERO opposition.






i hope thats NOT the future of the game (though unless changed it will be without choice).
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: Citabria on March 19, 2004, 09:42:59 PM
the only places with multiple gv hangars are the tank towns. these area have no effect on airfields. they do not spawn to airfields and do not affect airfields. they are for the ground vehicle players. a place for them to fight in heavy battles

all gv bases that spawn to airfields have only 1 vehicle hangar

the multiple gv hangars at tank towns have worked exactly as intended.

any other gv base on the map can be captured by a sinlge fluffer ina ju88 and all vh hangars are default hardness

2 1k's will kill them.

the tank towns are places for intense gv actionthey are meant to be very difficult to capture because the primary area of interest is the tank town battle andcapturing the bases there ends the fight and move it to the next vbase with fewer hangars and no tank town.

it seems the oposition to multiple vh's is coming from jabos and buffs. the gv crowd has been enjoying the heavy action while the jabos and fluffs are still able to jabo and fluff at will.

bst way to take out a gv base at a tank town is either with a mission of jabos (ive used a 7 player mission, 6 p47s 1 goon) or to use he round equiped tanks to hit the vh's
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: JB73 on March 19, 2004, 09:47:23 PM
lets propose a scenario:

during USA daytime approx 180 online

mostly 5-2 fights isolated across the map, and a couple "furballs"

5-6 guys on 1 side get together and hit a Vbase. 1 maybe 2 defend.

base XXX is lost from base YYY.

base ZZZ is the "counter" base.

the rest of the daytime is an endless battle stopping the capture of ZZZ (which spawns to a strageticlly importand airfield).

USA primtime rolls around. approx 500 online. 20-20 fights everywhere.

20 guys decide to try and re-caputre base XXX (which was theirs in the first place). 15 Jabo attack planes 2 goons and 3 fighter support. 5 of the 15 hit the hangars (assuming all ord hits) they kill the hangars. 3 hit the town (assuming all ord hits) they kill the town. those 8 also have to kill the ack (like that always going to happen).

during the "attack" a call is put out on "country" that help is needed at base XXX by the enemy. 5-7 players spawn invarious vehicles minium. lets say 5 flaks and 2 tigers

now the remaining 7 of the attack have to kill 7 GV's. not a safe bet. 89% of the time i will put serious moned on the GV's (seeing as tigers are almost impossible to outright kill in 1 pass) and if 1 single vehicle is left over they can kill the troops with their pintel gun.

now you have to re-up in planes to kill the remaining GV's (assuming noone dies to flak fire) everyone augers to get a fresh plane with ordinance (fastest way).

by the time you get back all the Vhangars are back up. now there is a new contigent of vehicles up to stop you. let alone the FIVE fkng hangars you must kill again.




thats how 5-7 can stop 20+ attackers. EVERY time. no way around it that i can see.



can you write this scenario differently?!?!?!




Aces Low it is. thats what we now all play.


or i can become Lazs and "furball" withough care i guess. oto the center of each map and just "fight" at 500 feet off the deck all day.

hmmmm 2 options?!?! maybe there's a third.

Quit and not waste my money.
















maybe there's a fourth. play WWII online to live out the GV wars AH is trying to emulate.
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: JB73 on March 19, 2004, 09:50:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Citabria
the only places with multiple gv hangars are the tank towns.

all gv bases that spawn to airfields have only 1 vehicle hangar

the multiple gv hangars at tank towns have worked exactly as intended.

any other gv base on the map can be captured by a sinlge fluffer ina ju88 and all vh hangars are default hardness

2 1k's will kill them.

so in my scenario we lose a base during the daytime (USA daytime) that spawns to a base that is EASIER to capture? that in turn spawns to a base that is even EASIER to capture?




hmm dont take a genius to figure that one out.

as i said im sorry Fester.

<> the maps are beautiful in composition.

the "gameplay" considerations have a ton to be desired IMHO.
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: Citabria on March 19, 2004, 09:51:32 PM
did you read what i typed?

the larger vbases have no spawns to airfields AT ALL

NONE
THEY HAVE NO EFFECT ON AIRFIELDS OR ON THE AIR WAR
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: Citabria on March 19, 2004, 09:54:50 PM
you want easier to capture vehicle bases that dont effect airfields but are upset that they are easier to capture while the bases at tank towns are tougher to capture and recapture.

you are upset that you cant shut down a vbase with 1 jabo?
what exactly is the problem. spell it out for me im not that smart nor intuitive about nonspecific gripes.

clarify in 2 sentences what the concise problem is and in that way i can comprehend and do somthing about it.
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: zmeg on March 19, 2004, 09:56:39 PM
Good work fester, Tanktown lives.
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: Citabria on March 19, 2004, 09:57:35 PM
add to that..

it took 7 people you just admited to take this tuff vbase
you did capture it

but i was difficult and you found the only way to do it was to work together and coordinate your attack?

is this really so awful a thing?
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: JB73 on March 19, 2004, 10:08:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Citabria
it took 7 people you just admited to take this tuff vbase
you did capture it
umm we didnt come close to taking it.... not a single hangar destroyed.

im sorry fester for my angered comments. i am upset.

please read my above scenario with zero perjudise.

the "step easier to take" just doesnt make sence to me. there is no way to "make" players during a certian time play they way you want. that being said... bases will be lost during non-primetime (USA that is).


how do you re-gain that territory?

how do you stop that from defeating you in the long run?

there is no easy solution that i have seen.... it's all "gameplay" considerations. in my HUMBLE opinion the most recent development is a step towards a ground war sim.

not a flight sim.

<<> and i will abstain from further comments on this for now.
you are an incredible player Fester, and i admire your skills in flying, and map making. i just disagree with your choice in design.
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: Citabria on March 19, 2004, 10:22:18 PM
all hangars are default hardness.

2 1k bombs will kill any vhangar on a vbase
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: MetaTron on March 19, 2004, 10:24:52 PM
Hate to say it Cit, but the game play just vanished. Aside from mid map the fights are gone, or at least they were tonight.

Makes for a pretty good pizza map, though, if they'd just change the textures.

...and, default hardness on vbases has traditionally been 1k.
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: Citabria on March 19, 2004, 10:29:09 PM
bummer.
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: Sway on March 19, 2004, 11:16:11 PM
I like it... keep the GV dweebs isolated :D
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: MadMan on March 19, 2004, 11:34:46 PM
the base thing sucks.... millions of acks and too many VH's...   but if that makes you GV guys playing a flight sim happy, so be it.

But the base stacking is odd...
Looking at the map overall, it seems the bases are closely spaced.  But once you take out all those GV guys bases, the Airfields are actually spread out farther  than many on big isles.

I know it takes hardwork to make a map, but this one has it's flaws like every map does.

OzKansas looks good, havn't examnined the base layout yet though.  I'll save judgement until it makes the rotation, in two weeks :)
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: Morpheus on March 19, 2004, 11:45:07 PM
Im not going to get too teknikal here but I see this grip being this...

Some are upset because they cant Jabo and put a VH out of commision with 1 Jabo and quickly take it. Seems to me that the VH capture thing was always too easy to start with anyways.

Even so, as Fester stated, these VH's in question have no impact on any air fields.

What sucks is when you are having a great GV battle and one dummy with his D9 comes ripping in and kills the VH thus ending the ground battle... Kinda cheap really...

I like the way Fester layed out the Tank town things. I dont do the GV thing all that often. But this map makes it a whole lot more fun that I have to admit.

EDIT: Oh yeah. Good work Fester and Thanks

Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: sax on March 19, 2004, 11:53:49 PM
As has been said in the past---theres a fight out there somewhere , just gotta find it.
Don't know about the GV thing JB , you could be right there but the air battles are constant and for the most part even on Festers map.
Actually had a couple even ups and 2v1's tonite--been awhile.
Fun Map Cit
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: Steve on March 20, 2004, 12:04:15 AM
Pretty good whine thread here, all the traditional stuff... quitting is mentioned, vulgarity used.. really not spectacular... not bad either... very journeyman like whine.
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: MadMan on March 20, 2004, 12:11:20 AM
steve making a comment about a whine thread.  I think I;ve seen everything now.
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: JB73 on March 20, 2004, 01:11:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MoRphEuS
Some are upset because they cant Jabo and put a VH out of commision with 1 Jabo and quickly take it.
umm ... please read the whole post and replies befor you make hastily formed bullcht comments like that

only makes you look like an arse

just want to help you keep from looking stoopid.
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: JB73 on March 20, 2004, 01:27:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by sax
[B[Don't know about the GV thing JB , you could be right there but the air battles are constant and for the most part even on Festers map.[/B]
yes that they are...

for us "building battlers" "winning the war" is something we attempt to do.

yeah it's all about the perks

i can't say for my entire squad, but for me it's about supressing the enemy in these inferior LW planes.

about my post... along comes 2 panzers and a flak... VH dead, Ammo dead,

now all of a sudden while having a decent fight oer a piece of virtual land, we get killed while landing by a flak on the airfield.

lets stop him.

 oops we cant.



we dont have enough guys to kill the 3 VH hangars.

ok we'll go somewhere else.

oops base is captured.

oops that base was 2 sectors from HQ.


JB's i thought you were there "defending"

sorry nothing we could ahve done.

well for letting our contry lose DAR.

well back we cant do everything.






now everyone is pissed.

just a mess IMHO.
aces HIGH instead of "ground war central" is what i have been attempting to play.


im not at all a good stick, or capable pilot. just trying to learn to "fly"

i have to sit in a panzer and stop the "horde" none the less or i cannot fly with radar like my enemies.






















i know i have exagerated some points for effect, but only o give thide of what i have seen happen.

yes i have seen happen and you have too if you have played for over a year. like i said previously, the answer is NOT simple. it is an ongoing process.

i posted to have my viewpoint looked at and in my hope somone else agree. if not i guess im a major Minority and i apologize.
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: Steve on March 20, 2004, 01:41:02 AM
73,   don't apologize for havin an opinion bro.
:)

Madman, I don't know you.  Are you one of those hangers on stalker types?  Do you even play AH?
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: Citabria on March 20, 2004, 06:39:33 AM
73 your argument is not valid because you are complaining about gv fields with multiple hangars affecting airfields.

they do not.

gv fields that spanw to airfields hav ony 1 or 2 hangars max. no more. not a single gv base on the festerma that spawns to airfields has 3 vehicle hangars.

you are making asumptions which are not true.

so let me put it in all caps big type maybe this will get through your jaded viewscreen...


NO GV BASE THAT SPAWNS TO AN AIRFIELD HAS MORE THAN 2 HANGARS. ALMOST ALL GV BASES THAT SPAWN TO AIRFIELDS HAVE 1 HANGAR ONLY!

your poor feeble german jabos can deal with 2 vh's of this i have no doubts. if you cant you need some more practice.
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: Citabria on March 20, 2004, 06:43:40 AM
so far every whine about the new vbases has been from those in aircraft trying to bomb them and end the ground war with minimal effort
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: Citabria on March 20, 2004, 06:45:54 AM
" can't say for my entire squad, but for me it's about supressing the enemy in these inferior LW planes"


the whole point of the tuffer vhs was to shift emphasis to the actual ground vehicle battle and allow them to fight eachother without the fight being stopped by 1 person with some eggs.
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: ET on March 20, 2004, 07:02:07 AM
Fester,
V50 and V51 on Festermap have two VHs.
Is this planned ?
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: Overlag on March 20, 2004, 07:19:22 AM
JB... the idea of tank towns is just that... Use TANKS?

if one side is using the tank "line" to advance, use there airfeild line to attack (along the shore for instance)

VH's have always been too weak........
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: Citabria on March 20, 2004, 07:46:46 AM
yes those bases have 2 vhs to be less vulnerable to cv attack since they are along the coastline
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: Horn on March 20, 2004, 08:14:48 AM
I hadn't played on the map with the 3 VH's and the bldgs between bases before. I like it. We had some intense gv battles yesterday, 10 vs 10 and more. Was great fun and nice because one tank couldn't spawn camp the whole place and one loser inna p-38 couldn't stop the battle.

Only comment on the map seems like the Ports might be too close together in the NE (P5, etc)--or more precisely, the carriers spawn very close to each other it seemed.

Thanks for the fun.

h
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: WilldCrd on March 20, 2004, 08:56:05 AM
There is an "easier "way of taking the Vh's down at tank town but i aint upping the info sorry mucho classified specially since i like to jump into a tigger or panzer and mix it up and I dont like some jabbo dweeb killing my VH in one pass Fester like the map not as much as ozkansas but it's still good:aok
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: DREDIOCK on March 20, 2004, 04:20:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MadMan
the base thing sucks.... millions of acks and too many VH's...   but if that makes you GV guys playing a flight sim happy, so be it.

But the base stacking is odd...
Looking at the map overall, it seems the bases are closely spaced.  But once you take out all those GV guys bases, the Airfields are actually spread out farther  than many on big isles.

I know it takes hardwork to make a map, but this one has it's flaws like every map does.

OzKansas looks good, havn't examnined the base layout yet though.  I'll save judgement until it makes the rotation, in two weeks :)


The ack you see in this "flight sim" doesnt even come close to what the aircrews had to endure during the war even with the added ack. If it were to be close you could take that added ack and quadruple it then mayybe you might be getting close.

Seems to me too many people just want to be able to have the easy base capture which in my opinion is half the problem. that is bases both airfeild and GV are way too easy to capture. The added defences are a much needed improvement. and similar improvments should be added to the airbases as well. this would make them both harder to pork and capture
Then the hoard dweebs will  actually haveta work a little bit instead of just showing up by the billions.
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: Delirium on March 20, 2004, 04:43:06 PM
Good work on the map, Fester, dont let the naysayers get you down. :D  Just for chuckles one night I took a panzer to some city or another and lo and behold I saw a battery looking down at me as I got close. Its great stuff!

I'm noticing its a small minority that don't like it anyway, so keep your chin up. :)
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: bockko on March 20, 2004, 04:55:12 PM
fester: you should not have to endure posts like this. You have done the community a service with your maps. I must admit, i had a blast last night on the new one.

Thanks!
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: ET on March 21, 2004, 05:22:33 AM
Fester. thanks for the info.
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: Sway on March 21, 2004, 07:45:01 PM
Love GV fights on this map, considering I suck in them.  Spend more time in GV than AC. :D
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: LAWCobra on March 21, 2004, 08:09:48 PM
Myself and 3 squadies took a Vbase with little effort.
Nice work Fester.:aok
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: MetaTron on March 21, 2004, 11:11:44 PM
Today was much different. When I posted the above I had attacked three bases and one guy came up to defend. Today, I played rover and found lots of fights. Got BnZ'd and had a blast.

There does seem to be a higher concentration of aircraft near the Vbases, though.
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: Sway on March 22, 2004, 07:08:39 AM
You know bad news is coming too, when you see a bomber formation shadow slide along the ground next to you. ;)
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: HavocTM on March 22, 2004, 03:45:14 PM
Here's a thought.  If you haven't gone through the trouble of learning the map editor, making a field, debugging it, testing it, reprogramming it, submitting it, getting rejected, fixing it, submitting it, etc.


SHUT UP!

All I hear is whines about how badly our default maps SUCK and here comes Fester actually MAKING new maps and we get the freaking crybaby patrol because you can't milkrun Vbases like pizza.
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: MadMan on March 22, 2004, 05:16:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
The ack you see in this "flight sim" doesnt even come close to what the aircrews had to endure during the war even with the added ack. If it were to be close you could take that added ack and quadruple it then mayybe you might be getting close.
instead of just showing up by the billions.



A realism response.   That's not gonna work around here.

Unlimited numbers of Panzers spawning from a mesh tent.
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: kj714 on March 22, 2004, 06:03:21 PM
I enjoyed the gv battle between the two bases on the west side of the map. Great Fun! Well thought out terrain.

I don't really gv much though, so I'm probably not aficianado enough to give a true epinion.
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: DREDIOCK on March 23, 2004, 12:43:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MadMan
A realism response.   That's not gonna work around here.

Unlimited numbers of Panzers spawning from a mesh tent.


I was adressing the complaint about the amount of ack.

You also wouldnt see a vehicle marshaling yrd with only 1 garage either.
Nor would you see one lone plane with a couple eggs being able to shut down and entire base on a single pass or two so a second yoyo in a m3 filled with 8 lightly armed men be able to capture it unopposed
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: NoBaddy on March 23, 2004, 08:13:30 PM
Had a blast at one of Fester's tank towns last night. There were about 5 guys defending against a like number of bish at the south field. I checked the north field and saw 3 bish attacking it. Fredex joined me and we thrashed them :). This stuff went on for about an hour. Planes would come in and take down 1 or 2 of the hangers....but, the fight kept raging. Finally, about 15 or 20 bish in planes showed up. Heavy fighters and buff formations. I got about 3 more kills on the planes before a tank got on the field and killed me. Was a hoot and a half watching those guys buzz around like wasps trying to get all those hangers down :D.

Good fun bish doods...thanks Fester :).
Title: umm .. map issues IMHO
Post by: Steve on March 24, 2004, 01:28:01 AM
Hey Fester, thanks for the map.  Good times to be had by all.