Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Karnak on May 29, 2001, 10:50:00 PM
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I decided to fly an A6M5b, and through the course of 3 flights saw nothing but La-7s (50+%), P-51Ds, Fw190D-9s and Bf109G-10s. I may as well not have been there as they were pretty much ignoring me. The Rooks around me were flying the same aircraft and they fights were always going way faster than I could get my Zero to go, even when I dove.
To cap it, I finally got a P-51D to turn with me and another Rook in a fast plane zips by and blows my P-51 apart.
I am sick of 360+mph-on-the-deck aircraft. No mid-war aircraft will be able to survive in this environment. The Mosquito that I want so badly will be a sitting duck in front of the Fw190D-9s and Bf109G-10s that it so rarely fought in WWII and for the P-51s, Typhoons, La-7s, La-5FNs, Tempests, Yak-9Us, P-47s and F4U-1s that it never fought in WWII.
The only two British aircraft that would be competitive now, so far as I can tell, would be the Spitfire MkXIV and Meteor MkIII.
The Mosquito, Beaufighter, Hurricane, Me410A or B, P-40, J2M3, Re.2005, MiG-3, Ki44, P-39, Ki102, ect, ect, will all be neat-but-useless because of the over-common speed demons.
Am I frustrated, ya, I am. I am frustrated enough to have briefly contemplated canceling my account (then reason took hold (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)). I am frustrated because the last two versions, while adding neat and needed fixes, really haven't offered anything rejuvenating for me. I'm not getting anymore bang for my buck in 1.07 than I was in 1.05, in many ways I am getting less because of how much the MA sped up after 1.06 was introduced. Perk planes cost so much that they are useless to me. None of the aircraft added in the last 2 versions are of particular interest to me, although some I felt needed to be added for general use and fairness reasons.
Consider this a rant on one players frustrations. Comment as you will. My ramblings are done for now.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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you know what I enjoy after being mobbed by la7's, p-51s and gaggles in general in a mid war aircraft that cant run?
I get the meanest baddest plane in AH and I fly into a cloud of red Icons and emerge on the other side with 2-3 kills and 12 la7s chasing me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Tempest
when you absolutely have to kill everything and not get shot down nothing else in AH comes close...
that is until the Me262 arives.
that will be a great stress reliever (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Unfortunately I agree with both of the above posts.
Come on HTC, lets have some fantastic piece of gaming innovation and a few early war planes. The most fun I ever had online was in EAW, me in a Hurricane v 2 109Es at 25k. And I won.
No bloody chance in here, every sod and his dog is flying something waaaaay too fast for early war aircraft to stand up to. And while we're on the subject, why isnt the LA7 perked?
(http://www.swoop.com/images/logo_small.jpg)
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I agree.
In terms of speed, performance, abundance.. the La-7 SHOULD be perked. Maybe the FW-190D with it. Dunno about P-51D and BF-109G10..
Judging from the mediocre pilot's point of view(unlike so many so-called EXPERT pilots out there..), The P-51D and BF-109G10 I find is a very hard and difficult plane to fly.. One mistake and yer most likely downhill and can never come back up. LA-7s and FW-190Ds seem, comparatively, VERRRY forgiving as it is powerful in numerous aspects..
I don't care about N1K2-Js nor F4U-1Cs. They don't bother me. Getting shot down by which aircraft has the least relevance to this matter one can think of. Hell, I get shot down by all kinds of aircraft.
The LA-7 and FW-190D DESERVES a perk. They're very powerful in the hands of a good pilot, and still a threat even in the hands of a cheap-shot rookie pilot.
If I find a rookie flying a P-51D or maybe Bf-109G10, I'd gladly take them on whether they are higher or lower. But if I find an La-7 or a FW-190D, I find myself running at first sight more often than I can imagine.
Late-war monstrosities deserve a decent perk. Maybe HTC can lower the perk points needed in Tempests simultaneously, as well as setting up perk points for La-7 and FW-190D. That'd help resolve the discontent spread around some people(rolls eyes).
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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Originally posted by Kweassa:
LA-7s and FW-190Ds seem, comparatively, VERRRY forgiving as it is powerful in numerous aspects..
Compared to what? La7 itself is radically forgiving compared to D9 at lo/med altitudes.
As far as planes I flought, the only forgiving compared to anything plane is a well flown Spit IX (surprisingly fast at med and hi altitudes). So what? perk the Spit?
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YOU people must be all NEWBIES, NoT ME !
If YOU have trouble FIGHTIN' other planes, take SPITFIRE. Then other planes are JUST OTHER TARGETZ !
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PLease excuse the l33t spitfire quaker forgive him because he has not the brains to try ACM.
[This message has been edited by Glasses (edited 05-30-2001).]
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Gentlemen, have patience please. Please remember this is an ongoing development. Just think how far we have come in one short year! I don't think I have to point out the improvements and additions to the sim. Down the road, as I've posted before, as the community grows I believe there will be an early war arena. The number of participants in this sim are growing steadily, new arenas similar to the MA are going to be needed. It took years also for Air Warrior to have 5 or 6 different arenas to be used, however word of mouth has attracted many here in not that long a period of time. Patience, I believe and early war arena is in the future.
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Ahhh... I see Karnak is starting to hit his first "burnout" phase.
Every veteran pilot goes thru it, and if you stick around, you go thru it regularly. Take some time off, don't fly so much, and come back in a month or two.
On to the "late war speed monster..." arguement.
Strange, but last time I saw the usage numbers the Niki and Spit IX were the two most used planes, not the La7 or Dora. And I wouldn't call either of them speed demons.
Hard to find a good turnfight? You must fly in a different arena than I do, because I have constantly seen huge furballs my last couple of days of flying. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) This map is designed to create huge congested furballs, and its succeeding at its job.
Is the La7 and the Dora deadly planes in the hands of a skilled pilot? Yup they sure are.
The funny thing, is that most of the La7 pilots in the arena I see, totally stink. They try to fly it like a Spitfire, and turnfight in it. And of course they try to spray long distance shots with the mediocre B-20 shells and can't hit crap (did I mention the short clip?) IMO most of them are Easy meat.
And the British planes aren't competitive Karnak? Come on.... alot of people must disagree with you or the Spit IX would not be one of the two most popular planes in the arena.
Sorry guys, but I just have to totally disagree. I think the MA is the most diverse it has been since the open beta started.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Tempest
when you absolutely have to kill everything and not get shot down nothing else in AH comes close...
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Ive been chased down fair/square by a Typhoon in my Tempest....
Nothing is sacred.
Y
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Everything that exceeds the speed of my Henschel 126, should be perked.
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Do what I do... fly the lesser ability planes and kick some booty.
I'm 26/3 in the La5
10/2 in 47D-25
10/2 in C205
37/15 in F6F-5
When the warping subsides I'll give the Zero a whirl and see what I can come up with.
-SW
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Good post Verm.
Karnak dont give up on the Mossie..Your making good progress bud. But you know it wont be a dog fighter right? So people passing up on trying to turnfight a zero is hardly indicative of what will happen to a Mossie.
The first guy that slowed down to dogfight you in your zero while every one else stayed at speed to keep thier birds nimble would have been in serios trouble. He would likely miss you and then be the focus of his enemies rath..
It sounds like none of the birds above you were hispano equiped. And few where 50 cal equiped. Both guns work far better against a bat turning zero then the mg151/20 and the soviet cannons. The allied guns let you open up a little befor the bat turn starts and maybe take the zero out of his game...
But if you have to worry about D9s, La7s and P51s it is a bad idea to slow down to fight a lone zero...
Sounds like you were up against some experianced sticks. They identified the real threat and avoided the bate.
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Last week (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) poor Pollock ... and it's my fault, he tried to save me. No wonder their was always a Spit in my six, I wasn't dogfighting 2 Spits only as I thought (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(http://home.cfl.rr.com/rauns/pollock.jpg)
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Karnak,
I seemed to remember bumping into you last night once or twice. I can't comment on how many La7's there were (I was in one much of the evening), but you should have seen the number of N1K's on your side of the line. Wow, I counted 7 N1K in view at one point. Most of them had a whole lot of alt too, I bumped into one at 20K while I was in a P-47.
I hate finding N1Ks higher than me, even at that alt.
-Soda
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Ah how I yearn for a lockable historical arena pleeeze HTC...
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Vermillion,
I'm not saying that what I was fighting was indicative of the MA's population, but I will disagree with you about the Spitfire MkIX. The only reason that it is at all competitive (this goes for the N1K2 as well) is that there are still people out there that try to turn fight it in their La-7/P-51/Fw190D-9/F4U-1. It gets tiring to fight people who fly everything like its a Spitfire or a Zero. The Spit IX either is a sitting duck, or it works the poor sod. The Spitfire MkIX, Typhoon and Tempest are all competitive to one degree or another though. What I meant to say was that the only British aircraft yet to be added that I see as competitive are later versions of the Spitfire and the Meteor MkIII.
Pongo,
The problem I see with the Mosquito is the deck speed in relation to the other aircraft in AH:
Tempest: 388mph
La-7: 380mph
Fw190D-9: 377mph
Typhoon: 376mph
Bf109G-10: 370mph
P-51D: 367mph
Ta152H: 363mph
P-51B: 360mph
F4U-1: 360mph
Yak-9U: 358mph
La-5FN: 357mph
Fw190A-8: 351mph
Mosquito FB.VI Series 2: 345mph
P-38L: 345mph
Bf109G-2: 344mph
Fw190A-5: 344mph
P-47D: 343mph
Yak-9T: 337mph
Bf109G-6: 337mph
N1K2-J: 336mph
Bf109F-4: 330mph
C.205: 329mph
Spitfire F.MkIX: 321mph
C.202: 318mph
Spitfire MkVb: 305mph
A6M5b: 293mph
Thankfully the two most common fighters, N1K2-J and Spitfire F.MkIX, are slower than the Mosquito FB.VI which will give it some hope against those if they don't have too much altitude on it. However, all the other common fighters are much faster than it on the deck, and the Mosquito FB.VI will mostly be at low altitude where its single stage Merlin 25s give it the best relative performance.
Fortunately last night ended a bit better. I logged on and had a nice manuever fight with rarara in a Spitfire MkIX while I was flying a Ki61. <S> rarara.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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Soda,
Ya, you were there. Ya got me once. <S>.
Its kinda hard to tell what is on your own side unless tou switch the way icons are displayed, which I did not do. I did visually see 1 Rook in an N1K2 though. I didn't get close enough to any other Rook in an N1K2 to ID it though. Silver P-51Ds are easier to visually ID and I saw several Rooks in those.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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Frenchy.. that is not as much of an aircraft selection problem. I have seen as many as 10 aircraft engaging one enemy as of late. Its a trend that I find quite discouraging from either side of the battle.
AKDejaVu
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AH needs an historical arena as a cure the the MA blahs.
ra
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Karnak, I seriously hope your not putting too much faith in the "fighter" portion of the Mosquito FighterBomber (FB) Mk VI.
Its just not going to be competitive in a fighter role in AH, and really wasn't in the real world. Just like I hope too many of the Luftwaffe fans don't expect the Me410 (which was actually faster than the MkVI) to excel in the same role.
Even matched up against pure fighters from the same midwar era as the Mossie Mk VI itself (F4U-1A, Fw190A5, La5, Bf109G2) its still not appreciably or any faster than they are at the Mossie's peak performance (380mph at 13,000ft).
And every single one of them will be more manueverable.
An interceptor/buff buster maybe; a night fighter, certainly; and definitely a very potent ground/sea attack aircraft with the armament setup that it has. But I don't know of any single mark of the Mosquito series that is competitive in a pure fighter role, or in a main arena.
In a historical scenario, I think it would do quite well if used historically.
Just dont' count on it being "competitive" in the manner you are discussing in Aces High's Main Arena.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Set up a H2H arena for yourself, that's what I do for earlier war stuff.
Better yet... fly the Snapshots! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
<S>IC
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Mosquito would be more survivable than some other attack/bomber planes in AH (Il-2, Ju-88, TBM) because its speed, even in low altitudes.
If it would be faster then it should be perked (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Vermillion,
That is exactly my point. The Mosquito will not manuever with a true fighter, but in reality it could match, or better, the speed of most of the fighters it ran into. In AH the vast majority of types will easily outrun it and will all out manuever it, thus they will easily kill it.
I'm not expecting it to do well in a pure fighter role, it will be capable of swatting a surprised or poorly flown fighter, but all things being equal it'll die quickly. In AH it will rarely have a chance to use its speed to any advantage because the planes used in the MA are not at all representative of what it was dealing with. They are nearly all faster at low altitude than the Mosquito.
In a mid-war plane-set the Mosquito would do well (by no means would it be invulnerable or devastating to aircraft), in an near unlimited late-war plane-set it'll be slaughtered.
The doom of the Mosquito is the same as the doom as every other early to mid-war aircraft. Condemned to obsolescence before they've even been added.
For my part, early war is not very interesting and late war is getting wearisome. Others will disagree, but that is entirely appropriate.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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Like I said Karnak, I will fly the Mossie (the one with the guns in the nose) because it's my fav plane after the P47.
As a side note, my officer school in France was named after a French Mosquito pilot. He got the "medal of honor" postumeously while attacking boats. His squadron got jumped by 109s, and he could shot down a couple of them in the confusion before being shot down. (Looks like a classic MA furball example).
BTW, anyone has some infos about mossie pilots records? I may find his name again "Quedg" something like that. I would like to know what he really did appart of the legendary French propaganda.
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Frenchy,
It'll be my main kite once it is added, but I expect that it will have a very rough time of it, far rougher than it did in reality.
As far as its use against fighters, it'll be more than capable of killing fighters that get sloppy or under estimate it.
The addition of the Mosquito FB.VI Series 2 would be that rejuvenation for me that I mentioned the previous two versions as lacking for me.
Its still in my sig. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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Ok I fly the zero only this frame and I have come up with tactics against faster higher planes like the Nik. I let them begin their dive I will turn inside their dive and climb a bit then I wait for them to do it agian the whole time i am trying to stay behind them untill they start their dive agian eventualy they either break and run do to lack of ammo, fuel or I get the advantage. once I lure them into a turn fight I can kill them 1 on 1 now if I get into a 2 on 1 or more I am generaly defensive and I take as many snapshots as possible I am still working on that tactic though. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) The zero is a VERY good plane in a fight it can take a fare amount of near missis before it catches fire or falls apart. I have fall'n in love with the zero and I will fly it against any plane. I may not win every fight but I will make them work for every kill.
Hodo
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...easy, perk the LA7. Then wait and see what everyone flies..and perk that too LOL...etc etc.
SwampRat
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Perk the La-7?
Does it have 20% of the MA kills? No.
Is it an historically barely used late-war plane? No.
Is it easy to kill in? A matter of conjecture. I fly the La-7 most of the time and the only time I've ever been shot down by another la-7 is when I've been gang-banged.
So, again, what is the basis on which it should be perked?
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something is wrong here! i AGREE with dowding!!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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Hazed
9./JG54
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whine whine whine. Ok...perk the spit(s) and leave the La7 alone. perk perk perk perk whatever's annoying.
Swamp