Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: GtoRA2 on March 26, 2004, 04:19:13 AM
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When I play enough my gunnery is OK I turn them off.
What about you guys?
Pro and cons here?
Is there a thread about this? I searched but did not really find one?
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I have experimented with switching them off. My experience was that I shoot better with tracers on, they help me (adjust) aim. I'm told that this isn't really historically correct as tracers have different ballistic properties than 'real' bullets. But in AH it works. I CAN live without them but once I bounced a P-38 in a P-47, got a few pings in but basically misjudged lead. I overshot and the P-38 shot me down. Turned out to be Ack-Ack, one of the most experienced P-38 drivers around. Since them I have tracers on, all the time :D
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On.
I like scaring the crap outta noobs who havn't seen the bounce coming.
I'll get em on the next pass......
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-9/48257/20029211530-0-Swoop.gif)
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I shoot better with tracers off. Plus tracers give you away when your first burst misses your target. I've been saved many times by the sight of tracers flying past my plane.
ra
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Off since the first day we had the option.
How many people duck, or don't duck a HO based on if they see tracers coming at them???
Even if its 1 in 10.
Not to mention all the other reasons.
Don't "walk" your fire onto target.
Put your fire out there & let them run into it.
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Off for two reasons.
First, turning tracers off tends to improve aim because you don't "walk" the tracers to the target. Also, turning off tracers forces you to get in closer for a better shot, thus increasing both your hit percentage and your lethality. Second, tracers tend to clutter the front view. I find this very distracting when trying to aim or function well in a furball.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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I find it doesnt matter from either and offencive or defencive standpoint.
I use them because it gives me an idea as to the general area where my bullets are going in relation to the object im shooting at
Defencively I find even when people with tracers turned off jump me if I dont see the tracers I hear the bullets wizzing past the cockpit. which is just as good.
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off
you can see better that way
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I found that having tracers off was a huge advantage in a bounce because if I missed, there weren't any stray bullets to warn my prey that was I come up from behind in their blind spot.
Then I started jumping around from plane to plane and had a hard time judging bullet trajectory, particularly in the 30mm-equipped 109s and the Yak-9T. I've always had to have tracers on for shooting anything in the Ostwind. Now I just leave them on because I forget to turn them off.
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Usually depends on what kind of mood I'm in lately. I've had them off for entire tours and had the best hit % I've ever had. However, as of late, I seem to have nights where I'm holding the trigger down and hitting nothing. So then I turn them back on. Deflection shooting can be more difficult with them off as well as those 600-1k shots!
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Off--my gunnery sucks with them on.
In AH2 i turned them on and couldn't hit anything but the ground.
Like Leviathon says--to distracting when you need a quik kill.
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Definately OFF. After playing for years you just KNOW what the proper lead for deflection is, keeping tracers on is pointless. I've found that having them on makes you lazy with regard to your shots. You tend to start shooting when you are 'close' to the proper lead, then drag your sparkly glitter hose around until you hit. With tracers off, as Levi said, you tend to get in closer, you tend to concentrate on proper lead more, and you tend to fire shorter and more lethal bursts, all good things for gunnery. With tracers on it is often hard to discern subtle enemy plane manuevers, hit sparks and control surfaces flying off, the tracers tend to overwhelm your forward field of vision. I've flown both ways for extended periods, and OFF is a definate advantage over ON.
The only exception I can think of would be switching between planes with nose or cowl mounted guns to wing mounted guns and vice versa, this wreaks havoc with your gunnery, and may require the use of tracers for an adjustment period. I tend to just fly planes with wing mounted guns for this reason.
Zazen
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I just turned them on after about a year with them off. Helped me refresh my gunnery and solved some problems I was having. I will go back to tracers off and see if there is any real difference.
Tracers off seem to help when your cherry picking and bouncing people, but since I'm a knight and I hate to climb above 10k I 'm always the one being bounced so it makes no difference here.:D
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On always..Unless I'm flyin a 2 vs 2 in DA..Then it is best off.
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It varies. Flew with tracers off for long time. Clear views, great for sneaking up and hosing prey before victim aware being shot at.
But lately turned tracers back on. More spectacle. More fun watching targets react to being shot at. Can spook targets into turning instead of running.
Also used to link cannon and machineguns into one trigger, but lately have kept them separate. More fun to apply advantages of cannon and mg separately, or even just better manage loads of all machineguns.
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I used tracers for a very long time. I finally decided to turn them off, with typical bad timing. I turned them off then logged for the night came back the next day and forgot I had done it. Then I actually managed to get with in 200 yards of a 262 in my little clunker of a Hellcat fired and the shock of not seeing tracers surprised me and I completely blew the opportunity. :)
Now that I've gotten used to it I probably won't turn them back on. I've found that nothing un-nerves your opponent like being hit when they don't know they're being fired at.
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On for me.
I find them very useful for making quick adjustments if i have missed. i usuaully don't open fire until i'm close, but when i miss i like to know why.
Tracers have improved my gunnery rather than worsened it.
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On for a couple of reasons.
#1. Since I almost exclusively fly the CT, and I switch sides from Allied to Axis a lot, I am constantly in different planes with different ballistic properties, like jumping from a P-40 with .50's into a 109E with MG-FF's, HUGE difference there in ballistics. I never stay in one long enough to get that 6th sense of where the bullits will go if they are off.
#2. Probably tied to #1, my gunnery is attrocious. I can not take a shot over D250 and be confident of a hit, I have to have the tracers to help me quickly adjust.
#3. Having the tracers on is extremely useful in making a runner stop running and turn so you can gain ground on them. I do that all the time in planes like the 109E/F, both Zeke's, the 110c's, pretty much any plane with hugh ammo loads of small MG's. I run the main trigger for all guns, and another button (the one on the right side of the CH Fighterstick) for the MG's only so I can "spook" a runner.
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Originally posted by Grits
I run the main trigger for all guns, and another button (the one on the right side of the CH Fighterstick) for the MG's only so I can "spook" a runner.
Same here. I have the machine guns mapped to that same button and the cannons mapped to the big red button at the top.
(http://www.chproducts.com/retail/products/usb/f16_fighter.jpg)
Very helpful in the Yak-9T and the 109s, where the cannons don't need any extra help to bring down an enemy plane. I use the small machine guns to spook the target, then use the cannons to kill.
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tracers are used in real life so use them in the game:aok
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Originally posted by gofaster
Same here. I have the machine guns mapped to that same button and the cannons mapped to the big red button at the top.
Thats exactly how I have it so I can pickle bombs and rockets with the thumb button, but if I fire the cannons I go with everything using the main trigger, and only use the side button for "MG spooking". :)
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
tracers are used in real life so use them in the game:aok
Tracers were optional in real life too.
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Tracers off...Combat Trim off. Makes the game more interesting.
-SLICER
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i dont know about ww2 but i know now that heavy machine guns like the 50 cal and medium machine guns rounds come standard with tracers
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Tracers off. Forces you to learn how to lead with your gun sight intead of your rounds.
ack-ack
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I used to leave them on all the time, and my gunnery was fair. I turned them off and my gunnery went to laughable. However after leaving them off for periods and then back on for periods I have found that for me gunnery is better.
1. No tracers forces you to concentrate on the sight and sight picture rather than just spray around till you get hits. For me when tracers are on I just see a bunch of yellow streaks, look for some hit sprites and hope for the best.
2. No tracers forces you to learn how much lead is required for a particular gun type.
3. Tracers makes it harder to see your pipper once you have learned how to use it. With them off its easier to aim for plane parts vs. the entire plane. P51B's lend themselves to this type of shooting where hitting a wing is pretty important to a quick kill vs just hammering the fuselage.
4. You will forced at the early stages to get in closer for your shots increasing lethality.
I learned to do this by just turning off the tracers, using the sight and practicing. Once I got used to using the sight instead of tracers I would turn tracers back on, pay attention to how much lead I needed in different situations for that gun type then turn them back off and practice somemore. During this time I was a particularly poor shot. Once I got the hang of it I improved my gunnery tremendously.
My hit percentage has roughly doubled now that I have really started to get gunnery under control. I still have a long way to go but for me no tracers has really helped in this regard.
Zaphod
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Off.
I usually end up flying Axis planes or English planes with .303s, so it doesn't pay to shoot from much more than 200 out, anyway. I have been saved (at least temporarily) numerous times by the sight of tracers passing nearby. So no point to having them, and occasionally I'm able to sneak up on someone.
- oldman
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ON.
If I'm bouncing a guy, by the time he sees my tracers it's moot what he does, really.
I don't know about that "walking" stuff, I don't really use tracers to aim.
I like to have them on in order to force runners to jink/react and thus allowing me to close a bit. If I'm not doin this, I don't shoot at evading targets much over 300 or so anyway. I'd rather work for a closer shot than expend energy pulling/adjusting for a longer shot.
I've flown w/ them off and didn't notice any difference in my hit % or any added advantage in a fight. My hit % is decent so I don't see how having them off can help me.
Exceptions: when attacking a buff it would be nice to have them off as it takes me a bit longer to saw pieces off.
Having them off when furballing in my spit V would be nice as the shots are usually in so close that you really don't need them anyway.
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
i dont know about ww2 but i know now that heavy machine guns like the 50 cal and medium machine guns rounds come standard with tracers
It's not that you buy a machinegun including 1000 rounds, and after you fired them, you throw both into the trashcan.
You can feed them with whatever you want as long it is the correct calibre and load.
In WW2 pilots of fighters (especially US) could choose if they wanted tracers or not, even if they wanted AP and/or incendiary. Some pilots made actually a science out of it, in "cooking" the optimal "mixture" of incendiary, armor piercing, full metal jacket lead, whatever.
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Now off... tried for the first time about a month ago. A few of the planes I'm at a loss as to where the heck my rounds are going but the .50's and 20mm go like little laser beams.
I did take up a 152 with which I have a life time K/D of 4.72 in and chased a pony all over the sky near A109 last night and only hit em with 1 ping. I'll have to work on that one...
But the best guns are the Osty and field gun, without tracers these two will make peelots scream on channel 1 after you pop them outa the sky! :D
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Off is probably easier. You can see hits better and you don't warn your target of a guns solution. But if you can kill easily with tracers on, you will be a terror with them off. On in MA - off in duels.
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Mostly off.
After a while I turned them off for the reason not to warn my target. Later I found at longer ranges they impaired my sight so much it got counterproductive to have used them.
As ack gunner I start firing at 2k or less only at fighters (trajectory is flat enough with just a little superelevation it is easy enough to get close).
Well sometimes as bomber (single plane) gunner I turn them on. It may spoil the aim of the attacker, drive him off and buys time.
As fighter always off.
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I've always left them on, but don't need them. I'm not giving away anything by you knowing I'm shooting you, it's too late at that point. You're gonna die from 8 .50s anyway.
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going to go off here next log
just fly the 109G-2 with no gun-pod's and you well learn how to shoot:lol
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great responces guys!
Thanks for the info. I think I am going to stay with them off, as long as I can play enough that my gunnery stays ok eheh
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Off. Definetely OFF.
My opponents dont jink, they are almost always suprised when out of the blue they get massive pings, accuracy is never a problem for me, as i shoot inside d400 always.
I just wish I could select which guns had tracers and which didnt. Id love to have my 38's 20mm cannon have tracers and not my .50's. Tracers are only useful for long distance spraying to make the dope turn so you can catch up...aside from that, tracers just give you away! :)
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And IUm telling ya unless you are missing Really WIDE.
I can hear the bullets going past the cockpit. tracers or no tracers.
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Originally posted by VWE
Now off... tried for the first time about a month ago. A few of the planes I'm at a loss as to where the heck my rounds are going but the .50's and 20mm go like little laser beams.
I did take up a 152 with which I have a life time K/D of 4.72 in and chased a pony all over the sky near A109 last night and only hit em with 1 ping. I'll have to work on that one...
But the best guns are the Osty and field gun, without tracers these two will make peelots scream on channel 1 after you pop them outa the sky! :D
I still remember when you did that on pbdy's H2H solomon map! You got like 20 kills before we figured out which one you were firing from.:lol
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Off. It's always great to get on someone's 6 and not have them notice until it's too late:D
Also, no one knows when youre shootin' unless they see yellow coming from your cannons:)
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Originally posted by iwin2000
Off. It's always great to get on someone's 6 and not have them notice until it's too late:D
Also, no one knows when youre shootin' unless they see yellow coming from your cannons:)
Not true. Like I said nless you miss very wide you can hear the bullets.
More then once I've been able to dodge a sneak attack with no tracers cause they missed close to the plane and I heard the bullets.
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To anyone who said above" I didn't know where my rounds were going"
I have the following words of advice.
Go offline, grab your fav plane, take off, turn north, level autopilot.
type
.target 300
You will now have a big perfect rangee target 300 yards due N of you.
Use autopilot to stablilze plane, ZOOM in so you can see your hits.
Now you KNOW that your rounds are going right down the line dead center.
So why would you need tracers?
btw .target 0 to make it go away
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Off-always.
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Originally posted by Ghosth
type
.target 300
Now you KNOW that your rounds are going right down the line dead center.
So why would you need tracers?
Thats fine if you fly the MA and you take one plane all the time and can get its ballistics into your head. My problem is I fly the CT and in addition to switching planesets every week, I also switch sides (as many times as needed) so I have to "reacalibrate" each time I hop in a different plane as far as how much lead to pull. At this point, having only flown AH about 3 months, I have to have tracers to help me "racal" my gunnery with visual clues.
As time goes on, and I get more practice, I might be able to pop in and out of planes with vastly different ballistic properties without tracers, but right now I cant. Plus, I cant tell you how many times I've gotten a kill because a runner saw my (intentionally missed) tracers fly by and then did something really stupid that let me catch them.
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GhostH thats fine and dandy if you are shooting at a plane that is flying straight and level. But how many of those do you get?
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How can people w/ such awful hit %'s be doling out advice?
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OFF
Tracers won't help you aim, and turning them off doesn't help much either. If a guy doesn't see you coming, he doesn't have enough time to jink out of plane once he sees your tracers.
I love it when a guy HOs and then calls out on channel 1, "Hey, you got tracers off, don't ya?"
Duh?
To learn about lead: Find a squaddie that has a decent gunnery, and ask him to send you some films. Ignore his ACM and watch how much lead he uses on jinks, and breaks.
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I never said I was good, actually gunnery is far and away my weakest point in the game. If I could hit half of the aircraft I get in a position to shoot at I would be a killer, as it is now I'm mediocre at best.
Anyway, he didnt ask "hey do all you AH Gods use tracers?" it was open to everyone unless I misread the original post.
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Originally posted by Steve
How can people w/ such awful hit %'s be doling out advice?
Hit % is not a great indicator of how good a shot a guy is.
One guy may be at 10% but take most of shots at 500 yards in a hard deflection.
Another may be at 20% but waits until he is at 100 yards and dead six.
Who's better?
And then some guys strip ack and pork bases in fighter mode...
eskimo
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Hit % is more an indicator of average alt than shooting proficiency.
Just kidding - but high flyers usualy shoot more bombers than flaks which could skew the %. I really doubt anyone gets 20% flying furballs and shooting at fighters. I think 8-10% would be excellent for furballers.
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I didn't know tracers could be turned off. :confused:
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Hit % is more an indicator of average alt than shooting proficiency.
Do you really believe this? Wanna buy some prime swampland in Florida?
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Originally posted by opus
I really doubt anyone gets 20% flying furballs and shooting at fightersI.
Oh? What's not so believable about it?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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"Wanna buy some prime swampland in Florida?"
Oh I guess you think I'm some dummy like Walt Disney ;)
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No, I don't think you're a dummy at all. My point was that I think your assertion is way off base.
Where do I begin?
There are more low buffs in the game than high ones.
One could argue that furballers are shooting at typically slower targets so their hit % should be higher. I'm a poor example of this because I tend to spray my 303's at fleeing bad guys.
I disagree w/ your assertion. See Lev's hit % as an example.
Side note: Todd, wish you could have stuck around that furball last night. The bad guys kept coming in high and dieing in piles.
Nath can outright FLY that 109. Wow, he's good in that thing. Anyway it was a good time, glad to get to fly some w/ you and Nath.
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No tracers + no killshooter = ooops (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108902)
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Originally posted by Steve
Side note: Todd, wish you could have stuck around that furball last night. The bad guys kept coming in high and dieing in piles.
Nath can outright FLY that 109. Wow, he's good in that thing. Anyway it was a good time, glad to get to fly some w/ you and Nath.
Yeah, that was a lot of fun last night. However, it was getting on 4am here, and my kid was starting to wake up. So alas, I had to call it a night just when things were getting interesting. Glad you had fun!
-- Todd/Leviathn
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I was just kidding, Steve. A quip to note prime swampland in Florida is not always a bad deal - e.g., Disney World. I also noted in my first post I was kidding about the alt thing too. As someone already stated, many things other than aim affect hit%.
I do think someone spending their time furballing and maintains an 8-10% hp is an excelent shot/anticipator. The targets might be slower but they have a death dance thats quite erratic.