Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: gofaster on March 26, 2004, 02:33:56 PM
-
Kerry is popping off (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&e=1&u=/ap/20040326/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_economy) about cutting corporate taxes to create more jobs in America.
Uh, the last time I checked, companies only hired more people if there was an increased demand for their products/services. How would lower taxes create more demand for products/services? Wouldn't lower taxes simply mean that companies would be able to keep the employees that they have right now? And allow owners to keep more of the profits?
-
2 things are preventing this from ever happening: Kerry will never be President, and Dems don't cut taxes.
-
Its a pretty complicated issue, but basically, it is believed that if the government cuts corporate taxes, companies will use the savings to reinvest in their business, hiring more people, who will therefore have more money to spend requiring companies to produce more to meet the increase demand...(gasp) (pant) (Pant).
-
If the bottom line is a little deeper, companies like ours will expand the workforce and reduce overtime. It's a beginning. I'll vote for anyone who has a plan that will get Workman's Comp in line with reality.
-
the "war hero" is just doing his regular, jumpin to the other side of an issue - taxes .. LOL
next thing he'll say is he Pro Life .. sorta .. "I was Pro Life before I was Pro Abortion" .. he gets funnier everyday
-
Good policys and politics is not black and white eagler. The tax code is fairly complex, kerry will cut taxes in some areas and raise them in others. Lowering corprate taxes to be conpetitive with other countrys and lowering middle class tax cuts, while repelling the tax cuts to the people who make more then 200k a year is a good policy. I dont understand how that is a flip flop? Are you saying you can only be for tax cuts in all areas or against tax cuts in all areas? If so you are fairly narrow minded.
Of course you will never understand, because you have no idea how the world works and think it ist just black and white.
-
Originally posted by Frogm4n
Good policys and politics is not black and white eagler. The tax code is fairly complex, kerry will cut taxes in some areas and raise them in others.
Of course you will never understand, because you have no idea how the world works and think it ist just black and white.
LOL
so do you .. get funnier everyday that is .. thx son LOL
-
Originally posted by Eagler
LOL
so do you .. get funnier everyday that is .. thx son LOL
Once again a post with no substance proving your ignorance.
-
Originally posted by Frogm4n
Once again a post with no substance proving your ignorance.
I just hope I am half as smart as you frogboy when I "grow up" LOL
-
"war hero"?
What kind of crap is this? If someone were to call Joe Foss or Chuck Yeager a "war hero" complete with the sarcastic quotation marks you conservatives would be up in arms. This is BS Eagler... did he serve his country or not? Was he decorated or not? His politics are beside the point.... this "war hero" **** really pisses me off!
-
I'll vote for anyone who has a plan that will get Workman's Comp in line with reality.
ya, the comp system is a mess. the only solution to the problem is a safer workplace.
-
Originally posted by Eagler
I just hope I am half as smart as you frogboy when I "grow up" LOL
Age does not indicate intelligence. If one does not keep an open mind throught one's life; then you are no more enlightened as when you graduated high school.
-
while repelling the tax cuts to the people who make more then 200k a year is a good policy
Why? This bracket pays 80% taxes collected already.
You want to cut taxes for people that don't pay any. How can this help the country?
-
Originally posted by midnight Target
"war hero"?
What kind of crap is this? If someone were to call Joe Foss or Chuck Yeager a "war hero" complete with the sarcastic quotation marks you conservatives would be up in arms. This is BS Eagler... did he serve his country or not? Was he decorated or not? His politics are beside the point.... this "war hero" **** really pisses me off!
Kerry isn't fit to shine the shoes of Yeager or Foss, you saying they are the same?
kerry, little jfk, draws the "war hero" as he started his campaign with it while ignoring his anti-war antics
-
I thought this part was interesting:
Current tax laws allow American companies to defer paying taxes on income earned by their foreign subsidiaries until they bring it back to the United States. If they keep the money abroad, they avoid paying U.S. taxes entirely.
Kerry would require companies to pay taxes on their international income as they earn it rather than being allow to defer it. The new system would apply to profits earned in future years only, not retroactively.
He also would allow companies to defer taxes when they located a business in a foreign country that serves that nation's markets. A U.S. company seeking the tax break could open a car factory in India to sell cars in India, for example, but could not relocate abroad to sell cars back to the United States or Canada.
Isn't this double-taxation? Company gets taxed in India on the income, then gets taxed again in the US on that same income. I guess that's one way to discourage moving jobs overseas - you'd end up getting taxed twice and couldn't dodge the IRS.
-
Gofaster...Kerry has a huge hard-on for companies that have headquartered themselves in places like Bermuda. He referred to them as "Benedict Arnolds".
3 points should be made clear:
1. Kerry accepted huge donations for his campaign from AIG (American International Group) who are in fact headquartered here in Bermuda.
2. His wife made a bundle from one company that moved "offshore" to Bermuda in a corporate "inversion".
3. The huge American reinsurance companies that are situated "offshore" are there for a reason. They need to be able to compete against their competitors in Europe and the Far East. Without the "loophole" that exists to allow these companies to be domiciled in a tax free juristiction the Europeans and Asians would put the US cxompanies out of business. It is why the loophole exists and continues to be a part of the US tax code.
Kerry also likes to mix up the issue of work being moved to India causing job losses in the US with the offshore issue. It really gets American voters all worked up and he hopes it will get him votes. The two issues are totally separate but he treats them as one.
I pray he doesn't get elected.
As to "double taxation", you will find that India has a "Tax Treaty" with the US whereby the company will gain tax credits for the tax they paid in the foreign country and therefore will pay only the difference, if any, on the taxes paid in India and the tax otherwise payable in the US.
-
So you measure a man's military service based on his politics after he comes home. My god that is lame.
-
Originally posted by Steve
Why? This bracket pays 80% taxes collected already.
You want to cut taxes for people that don't pay any. How can this help the country?
by lowering middle class taxes he cuts taxes to the majority of voters...
I guess that's one way to discourage moving jobs overseas - you'd end up getting taxed twice and couldn't dodge the IRS.
because we cant possibly let business owners run the business the way they choose...or let them offer a higher standard of living to lower class countries...
god im doing it AGAIN...
ignore me...
-
Originally posted by midnight Target
So you measure a man's military service based on his politics after he comes home. My god that is lame.
His military service, no. His overall political character, yes. We all have to remember that Kerry's inital political stance on the war upon his return was "hawkish," he only became anti-war when he noticed that it wasnt too useful being hawkish in Massachusets politics of the time. He is a very dishonest man, far more than most all pols are, he is patyhologically dishnoset about his own identity, he is not genuine about who he is. And thats why I'm oppsed to him, it's a shame becuse he is an intelligent guy but he is not any sort of leader. For example clinton and bush arent always honest or straightforward but never once did I get the feeling that they were dishonest about who they were, I get this feeling often when considering kerry. It's why he says things like, "I voted for it before I voted against it." It's why he fakes throwing away his medals. It's why he runs as "war hero" defense candidate while having consitently voted to gut military spending. It's why he runs against "special-interests" but he got more lobbyist money in his years than any other senator. Its why he does things like Curval said... He is pathologically dishonest about himself... This is not a man who should be a president, or a leader of a nation.
-
So you measure a man's military service based on his politics after he comes home. My god that is lame.
makes as much sense as measuring his politics based on his military service...
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
His military service, no. His overall political character, yes. We all have to remember that Kerry's inital political stance on the war upon his return was "hawkish," he only became anti-war when he noticed that it wasnt too useful being hawkish in Massachusets politics of the time. He is a very dishonest man, far more than most all pols are, he is patyhologically dishnoset about his own identity, he is not genuine about who he is. And thats why I'm oppsed to him, it's a shame becuse he is an intelligent guy but he is not any sort of leader.
Yep..see my post.
-
Man, why hasn't Miko2d weighed in on this one yet?
-
I could care less if you love or hate Kerry. I just find it incredibly hypocritical for those of us who constantly claim to support our troops to denegrate this mans service.
Has nothing to do with his politics.
-
by lowering middle class taxes he cuts taxes to the majority of voters...
You just don't get it. Most of these people pay almost NOTHING in taxes already. Cut 0 in as many pieces as you want... it's still 0.
-
Besides the fact that he's an prettythang...he's butt ugly..do we want that guy to be the face that represents the USA? I think not:D
-
Originally posted by midnight Target
Has nothing to do with his politics.
If claims to be a "War Hero" national security expert in his political capmaign do you not think his duplicitous postwar behavior and voting record should be considered as well?
-
Originally posted by Steve
You just don't get it. Most of these people pay almost NOTHING in taxes already. Cut 0 in as many pieces as you want... it's still 0.
Ok, before you guys start debating on taxes, here is some info.
FYI, each bracket here rep 1/5 of the population. The 0-82k bracket out numbers the 83k-up four to one in population.
(http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/tables/overview/Distribution/GIF/income.gif)
Of the fifth bracket, only the top 5% have an average of 250k and a low of 141k a year in income. So you can guess that the top 1-2% has all the dough. I guess you already knew that but there it is.
Tax source (http://taxpolicycenter.org/TaxFacts/tfdb/TFTemplate.cfm?topic3id=21&topic2id=20)
-
Oh good lord how dare we tax the top 5 percent! Lets give them all the tax cuts and the lower 95 percent very little. Good plan guys.
-
Originally posted by Frogm4n
Oh good lord how dare we tax the top 5 percent! Lets give them all the tax cuts and the lower 95 percent very little. Good plan guys.
Whose plan is that? You do realize that the USA has a progressive tax system?
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Whose plan is that? You do realize that the USA has a progressive tax system?
Yeah, progressive loopholes.
-
On the tax issue. Cutting corporate tax might increase employment. But it won't prevent jobs moving overseas. The only way jobs won't move overseas is for everyone's standard of living to drop with lower wages for all. That won't happen so low tech jobs and some hi tech jobs will go.
Now I speak as someone with an interest because I work for a big American company who located some operations to Ireland because of a low corporate tax regime and relatively lower wages. After working there for 6 years I still get less than than a new hire in the USA doing the same job. (Prices are higher here too ) :(
In the Far East wages are even lower. It's pure economics. Any company that does not set up in low wage ecomonies will be undercut by those who do. That's the it's going to be.
-
No cpxxx...
The commisar, wait I mean the party secretary, no, no, no, I mean the president can change the laws of economics....
Vote Kerry!!!
Ok thats a cheapshot, sorry. But seriously I dont see how Kerry's recently announced manipulations of tax laws and incentive schemese will do a single thing to stem the flow of manufacturing jobs abroad. And frankly I dont think we should try. That sector is no longer in a position of compartative advantage to the usa, and restructiring fiscal policy to encourage and support an outdated ineffiocent sector will only lead to disaster.
-
sixpence...you realize that the IOWA made it to the west coast quite some time ago?
-
Originally posted by midnight Target
"war hero"?
What kind of crap is this? If someone were to call Joe Foss or Chuck Yeager a "war hero" complete with the sarcastic quotation marks you conservatives would be up in arms. This is BS Eagler... did he serve his country or not? Was he decorated or not? His politics are beside the point.... this "war hero" **** really pisses me off!
Kerry got 3 purple hearts and a Silver Star all in his 4 month "tour of duty". I think Kerry should reslease his medical records like he wanted Bush to release his Guard records. I mean, what kind of injuries did he sustain?
How was he so wounded yet also able return to so soon in each case? What did he have, some bruises, a paper cut and a headache or something?
-
He's a "WAR HERO" darn it!!!
just threw that in there to raise MT's BP a couple of points :)
-
no one seems to realize that the "outsourceing" issues is completly blown out of proportions.
The US has lost 300,000 Jobs overseas over the last 3 YEARS....
Only 300,000 jobs......out of a workforce of somthing like at least 20 million that dosent sound like much to me Nuke if you want to read about kerry's scratches...err purple hearts here's a good source http://www.usvetdsp.com/kerry_pur_hrts.htm
His broze star he got for coming under fire beaching his boat and shooting a wounded VC. NO watermelon its in the citation
-
I'd like to add a few points if no one minds. Err, I suppose liberals will mind though.
1.) Outsourcing is a good thing. If all of the jobs were to be kept in the US, the company would only be able to hire 1/5 of what it hires oversees, it would have to pay a total of 5x what it pays in payroll right now. So basically, 1/5 of the Unemployed as of right now, will be employed. But everything will cost roughly 4x more. So it doesn't matter if they are employed or not, they won't be able to buy anything. Neither would those who had jobs anyway.
2.) What Kerry says he wants to do is clearly underlined and in bold of all economics books of **WHAT NOT TO DO** in a recession. His plan will lower the GDP by roughly 1 trillion dollars. And this is not a good thing in a recession. It will most likely lead to incredible amounts of Unemployment, not to mention a recession that would be 2x worse then the one Clinton gave us.
3.) Kerry, right now, wants to severely increase the taxes of those who are rich. And a rich person is someone who makes 50k dollars or more a year. Just see if you follow this logic. Kerry wants to increase the tax on the people who spend the most into the economy.
Woo! Kerry for president. I always wondered what it was like to live in the Great Depression.
Woah Gunslinger.
His broze star he got for coming under fire beaching his boat and shooting a wounded VC. NO watermelon its in the citation
First off, it was a silver star. Second, he didn't come under fire.
-
Kerry won a bronze star, silver star and 3 purple hearts in 4 months and managed to only miss 2 days total for his injuries.
The following demonstrates just how much of a "war hero" Kerry is:
Lt. John F. Kerry first served in Vietnam from December 1967 to June 1968, far away from combat. He returned to Vietnam in December 1968. He received his first Purple Heart in January 1969, his second Purple Heart in February 1969 and the third Purple Heart in March 1969. He has stated that two of his Purple Hearts were of the "walking wounded" type which did not cause him to lose a day's work. A third wound caused him to miss two days of work.
After the third Purple Heart, Kerry found a Navy regulation that allowed him to request immediate reassignment out of Vietnam. With his three Purple Heart,s he rotated out of the Vietnam in April 1969. He was 100 percent able to carry on with the mission but instead the lieutenant bugged out after a little more than four months in country. Kerry later took medals and ribbons and threw them away. He later stated the medals belonged to another veteran.
-
I still think he's too ugly to be president:D
-
Originally posted by Steve
You just don't get it. Most of these people pay almost NOTHING in taxes already. Cut 0 in as many pieces as you want... it's still 0.
so what...they still think there getting a break and therefore will vote for him...wich is all that really matters in an election...you all act like there going to keep any of there promises
Kerry, right now, wants to severely increase the taxes of those who are rich. And a rich person is someone who makes 50k dollars or more a year. Just see if you follow this logic. Kerry wants to increase the tax on the people who spend the most into the economy.
mmmhmm...if 50k a year makes a person rich then something is severly wrong...i always went with the fairly common sense assumption of...
0-35k = poor
35-40k=lower middle class
45-75k- middle class
75-100k = upper middle class
100k+ = rich
-
Making 100K plus dont make you "rich" in the san francisco bay area. It's all relative. Thats why these Democratic calls against tax cuts for "the rich" are so absurd.
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Making 100K plus dont make you "rich" in the san francisco bay area. It's all relative. Thats why these Democratic calls against tax cuts for "the rich" are so absurd.
I agree completely.
My dad works eighty hour weeks with a triple bypass and a titanium heart valve in his chest and gets to give half of it away to 'needy' people. He's a doctor, and yet he gets taxed like he's the president of Blue-Cross-Blue-Shield.
I know that he's not alone.
-
Originally posted by Capt. Pork
I agree completely.
My dad works eighty hour weeks with a triple bypass and a titanium heart valve in his chest and gets to give half of it away to 'needy' people. He's a doctor, and yet he gets taxed like he's the president of Blue-Cross-Blue-Shield.
I know that he's not alone.
yeah, but liberals and bums need his money in order to support even more liberals and bums.
-
Originally posted by NUKE
yeah, but liberals and bums need his money in order to support even more liberals and bums.
Too true.
Still better than he was treated in Russia, where he developed the heart problems. At least here he's free to open a private clinic and then get bombarded by the subsequent complaints of pandering to the elite by asking for money for services.
What the hell are you gonna do?
-
Interesting article from this guy:
Robert Buzzanco is associate professor of History at the University of Houston and author of Masters of War: Military Dissent and Politics in the Vietnam Era, and Vietnam and the Transformation of American Life
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/comment/story/0,14259,1179306,00.html
-
The article ignores the fact that most americans suppoerted the vietnam war until 1968 and Tet and Que Sanh.. Both were absolute military disasters for the Communists but they turned US public opinion against the war - even though we were winning... So yes the military was let down on the home front.
It's intresting how the article mentions Haiti as some nefarious US scheme, lets not forget we're there with a "multinational coalition" (multinational seems to mean multinational only if including france) so it's all ok, right? I guess that "multinational" isnt engough to guard against some good ole USA bashing....
-
Originally posted by lasersailor184
What Kerry says he wants to do is clearly underlined and in bold of all economics books of **WHAT NOT TO DO** in a recession. His plan will lower the GDP by roughly 1 trillion dollars. And this is not a good thing in a recession. It will most likely lead to incredible amounts of Unemployment, not to mention a recession that would be 2x worse then the one Clinton gave us.
Or even worse, the one Reagan gave us, yikes.
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
The article ignores the fact that most americans suppoerted the vietnam war until 1968 and Tet and Que Sanh.. Both were absolute military disasters for the Communists but they turned US public opinion against the war - even though we were winning... So yes the military was let down on the home front.
It's intresting how the article mentions Haiti as some nefarious US scheme, lets not forget we're there with a "multinational coalition" (multinational seems to mean multinational only if including france) so it's all ok, right? I guess that "multinational" isnt engough to guard against some good ole USA bashing....
well when reading it one should remember that it comes from a leftist (for the Uk and ultra leftist for the USA) newspaper - they will report in line with their editorial policy.
It was however written by an American, on the faculty of an American University, I don't think it bashes USA in any specific way, merely gives one academic's viewpoint on events past and current.
I don't personally agree with all the points he makes, however one should try to listen to other points of view before one can have an opinion on things - I read the Drudge report on a daily basis - I don't agree with everything on it but it gives a wider view of events.
-
Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
....
It was however written by an American, on the faculty of an American University, ....
this is the hotbed for the left, great for brainwashing our youth, usually takes them 5 to 10 years after college to see the light - you know as soon as they see the money they earned from the job they gained for the money that was spent to send them to college is going into the pockets of those who turn around and give it to many who don't even try ....
-
Originally posted by NUKE
yeah, but liberals and bums need his money in order to support even more liberals and bums.
Actually the middle states with all the white trash recieve more in federal moneys then any liberal state.
-
Originally posted by Frogm4n
Actually the middle states with all the white trash recieve more in federal moneys then any liberal state.
what is "white trash" ?? that sounds racist to me.
And a bum is a bum, regardless of state and the liberals love spending hard working people's money on them.
-
Drive through the poor parts of nebraska and other middle states. They collect more welfare in those states then the 'blue' states.
-
Originally posted by Frogm4n
Drive through the poor parts of nebraska and other middle states. They collect more welfare in those states then the 'blue' states.
by driving through you can determine this?
-
Yes....he is going to drop Corporate Taxes in the US. But, one very important part that was missed is.....he's going to close the Loophole in Tax law that makes it cheaper to manufacture overseas. He's going to ask that the same tax on Manufacturing be equal to the tax on manufacturing in the US. He's going to tax at the same rate Manufacturing etc whether it is foreign produced or US produced. He's going to do this slowly so as not to hit the Corps hard at one fell swoop. This he hope will bring jobs back to the US. Then he proposes the 5% income tax reduction on Manufacturing in the US so it will encourage US Corps to produce in the US and not abroad. Thus...creating jobs.
Read the entire statement. Not the part you just wish to read or hear :)
-
Hajo...companies do not move manufacturing out of the US because of high taxes...they do so because of the high cost of labour.
Kerry has sucked you into his web of bulls***.
-
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Woah Gunslinger.
First off, it was a silver star. Second, he didn't come under fire.
February 28, 1969:
When Kerry's Patrol Craft Fast 94 received a B-40 rocket shot from shore, he hot dogged his craft beaching it in the center of the enemy position. To his surprise, an enemy soldier sprang up from a hole not ten feet from Patrol Craft 94 and fled.
The boat's machine gunner hit and wounded the fleeing Viet Cong as he darted behind a hootch. The twin .50s gunner fired at the Viet Cong. He said he "laid 50 rounds" into the hootch before Kerry leaped from the boat and dashed in to administer a "coup de grace" to the wounded Viet Cong. Kerry returned with the B-40 rocket and launcher.
Kerry was given a Silver Star for his actions.
got that from here
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/page2.html
a good movie about Kerry's protesting endevours
http://www.stopjohn.com/pages/movies/hanoi-john.htm
(http://www.stopjohn.com/images/build/logo.jpg)
-
still ugly
-
Originally posted by Curval
Hajo...companies do not move manufacturing out of the US because of high taxes...they do so because of the high cost of labour.
Define the cost of labor for your example. Cost of labor = pure wages, or Cost of Labor = wages plus taxes? Or is there another definition at play here?
I would think equal taxation on income whether generated at home or abroad would be levelling the playing field a bit.
Also, another motivation for moving offshore is to avoid legal liabilities under US law, and the US is a very litigious society. Funny how Kerry isn't suggesting legal reform to go along with his tax ideas. Why? Because many politicians are attorneys.
-
Gunslinger, i'm fully aware of it.
However, no one shot at kerry as he got out of the boat. I'd be surprised if the Vietnamese guy so much as coughed after getting hit with .50's.
-
Originally posted by gofaster
I thought this part was interesting:
Isn't this double-taxation? Company gets taxed in India on the income, then gets taxed again in the US on that same income. I guess that's one way to discourage moving jobs overseas - you'd end up getting taxed twice and couldn't dodge the IRS.
If there is a tax treaty between the US and India there is no double taxation. Indian taxes which are paid would be credited against taxes payable in the US.
-
... we will all be selling slurpees :)
-
Originally posted by NUKE
by driving through you can determine this?
by also reading up on the stats. Harpers did a brilliant story on it a couple months ago.
-
Originally posted by gofaster
I would think equal taxation on income whether generated at home or abroad would be levelling the playing field a bit.
A little example of how a Kerry-like plan will evolve:
Stanley Works (Stanly Tools etc) attempted to "invert" and set up with a company in Bermuda as its Head Office. There was an uproar in the US and in Connecticut in particular. The shareholders voted to keep the company HQ in the US.
Stanley Works then promptly fired 1,000 of its employees.
THAT is how job loss occurs in the US through Kerry-like plans.
-
Originally posted by Gunslinger
a good movie about Kerry's protesting endevours
http://www.stopjohn.com/pages/movies/hanoi-john.htm
(http://www.stopjohn.com/images/build/logo.jpg)
Weak.
Oh... and it contradicts Grunherzs earlier post.
-
Originally posted by Curval
A little example of how a Kerry-like plan will evolve:
Stanley Works (Stanly Tools etc) attempted to "invert" and set up with a company in Bermuda as its Head Office. There was an uproar in the US and in Connecticut in particular. The shareholders voted to keep the company HQ in the US.
Stanley Works then promptly fired 1,000 of its employees.
THAT is how job loss occurs in the US through Kerry-like plans.
So the US should be cowards when it comes to corporations?
At least reagan wasnt such a ***** when it came to protecting american jobs.( remember the japanese car quotas)
I say if a company moves its factory off shore to then sell its goods back to the US, make them pay for it. Make it so its just as expensive to move the operation off shore as it is to hire the best workers in the world.
What is the point of being able to buy cheap crap at walmart if you dont have a job.
-
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Weak.
Oh... and it contradicts Grunherzs earlier post.
How so?
-
Sandman I imagine you arev refring to my statement that he was hawkish first then anti war.
From what I read a few months ago is that he ran to the right against a liberal guy (a jesuit priest iirc) in some mass election and lost and thats when he turned left and anti war.
Intrestingly also I recently heard some recodrings of Nixon whitehouse meetings where theyt discuused Kerry. Aside from it being creepy that they watched him so close, Nixons own investigators noted that Kerry made an opportunistic 180 on the anti-war issue.
So I'm not sure of the chronlogy of the video in this thread or who made it, but based on the evidence I have seen I'm pretty confident of the fact that Kerry flip-flopped even that early.