Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Sunchaser on May 30, 2001, 02:35:00 PM
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Some go without a word, some go with anger and some go with class.
The problem is they seem to be going faster lately.
I have noticed for the first time today that new players numbers are over 2,000 but I also noticed that of 90 players in the arena 30 of them have numbers over 1,000.
I also noticed that solid numbers in the main seem to be stuck around 150-200.
Is this a good sign after more than a year?
I am seriously looking for reasons to keep supporting AH, it does a lot of things very well but, all the new additions notwithstanding, it seems to be stagnating.
As AH stands it is sufficient for many here and there will always be a core of satisfied customers but if that core does not grow the game will die.
Strat gamers and WWII flightsimmers seem dissatisfied, as do many seeking early war adventures and more historic matchups, but we are a minority and possibly of no account in HTCs grand scheme.
Two weekers come hot and heavy each new release then most seem to go away.
A new map tommorrow may help but HTC is locked into CV maps now and so far there are only 2, each with fans and those who dislike them.
I am not trying to get any disagreements going here, I am just hoping HTC has something up its sleeve and that they pull it out SOON.
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When did they put this thing in here and WTF is it for?
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I dunno what they got up their sleeves but I gots a big surprise in my pants.. now don't make me whip it out!!!
I mean.....
-SW
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(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) SW
I think it's just AH burnout or their wives/girlfriends are withholding ..
This is really a piss poor topic considering all the work and effort HT and co put into 1.07, the best update yet in my opinion!
I think it'll shine when we get a real map going, i.e. the islands.
Eagler
[This message has been edited by Eagler (edited 05-30-2001).]
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As an ongoing, ever evolving game, there will always be those that will leave. As with so many things, it is the minority that becomes a perminent fixtures, while most come and go and then come again. I have had at least 5 accounts since the beta, but I never stay gone for long.
The few that have left in the past few months have left for many different reasons, and some will surely come back. WW2OL will take a bite for at least a short while, as will any other major release of an online sim that has overlapping interest with AH. I have taken looks at all the other offerings, and so far AH is still the best game in town for me.
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I up and left AH about a month ago I really needed some time off and thats what I took. Well, I'm back now and I must say things are much better, my advice is take a break there's plenty of other sims out there that will make ya miss Aces High there's nothing else like it.
(http://members.home.net/winyah999/ProfFate.jpg)
I AM PROFESSOR FATE! (http://members.home.net/winyah999/proffate)
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I think they call that "Illusions of Grandeur" SW, or was that the Mr. T persona talking? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Edited for spelling, grammar, syntax and claustrophobia.
[This message has been edited by aztec (edited 05-30-2001).]
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Sunchaser,
Churn is a normal function of the net and society in general. Some leave as they can't handle the learning curve. Others go as they have "mastered" playing the game and no longer see any challenges. This may account for the majority of the old heads leaving. I think there is a "boredom" factor here.
There have been changes and mods to the game. Not very many have impacted the way that it is played however. Sure we have some new planes and boats but nothing has required a major change in how players play the game. Moving a hanger to avoid easy field kills is nice. Adding new planes is nice too but after the initial enthusiastic trial of the equipment, it's back to business as usual. Most are still flying what they were before in the manner they were flying before. If the new equipment is perked many will simply have to wait to use it or will use it sparingly also adding to the feeling of ennui in the game.
I have stopped flying the MA almost entirely as I find myself having to read during the climbs to avoid boredom. Now If I have to entertain myself while doing something to entertain myself it tells me there is something missing. I think it's the same for many "old heads". They got to a high state of skill but where is the challenge? If there is nothing that makes a substantive change in game play, or how most of not all play the game, it remains the same old feeling and actions. In plain language, boring.
I lack the talent to predict or suggest where the game should go but I hope they make a change soon that means a real change in the game play. It has got to be more than just eye candy or an incremental equipment update to keep the game fresh. A new "world" or new plane / veh set would likely help. With two tired maps there is little to modify how you deal with the game.
Don't get me wrong, I still support HTC, the game and want to play. Otherwise I'd have cancelled my account already. (I can use the money elsewhere quite badly) I just hope it changes or when I find even the TA or dueling arena's no longer fun I'll drop out of the game.
Mav
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What keeps me interested is the people.. the FDB's are about as entertaining as people come, good sticks and they flat refuse to let idiots, chan 1 obnoxiom or bored pilots lessen their dogged pursuit of a kills, captures, flamed chutes or naked sheep.
Ever.
Thanks *sniff* you buncha drunken slobs... fer giving me 45 minutes with Fattys Mom (my keys are still in there btw) and some decent belly laughs every time I fly.
The resta u guys.. stop taking this sim so seriously. Yer here fer entertainment.. so entertain yerselves! (mason, put that thing back in yer pants)
Hang
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WTFG hang, ya got tears all backed up in my...awww WTF am i saying.
i need a fresh beer now. dag-nabit...
and some wings (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Mason Fat Drunk (chute shooting) Bastards (http://fdb.50megs.com) -- "shut up and FLY"
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besides, it's summer, the traditional "low season" for online sims.
Dinger (taking a break himself from AH, btw).
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I agree with Maverick on this one.
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"Always in motion is the future."
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May the Force be with you.
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It is the nature of the beast. If most people never quit, there would probably be no AH. HT would have probably already retired a wealthy man for life from his first endevour with ICI. Looks can also be deceiving. There does seem to be a certain irony in the burnout that multiple visible people seem to hit simultaneously and what happens with our true numbers.
Although it would probably be wiser to say otherwise, I've been a player on the burnout side and stepping away from the game is a good thing(at least from the player's perspective). Although I would first recommend changing your routine and trying some different things outside of your normal routine in the game. If that doesn't help, try again later, the game is always progressing.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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Well, here's my $.02.
Been here since open beta. My time online has been lower since Spring. Getting into the Summer routine has lessened my "online time". Ya know, mowing the estate grounds and home maintenance.
I have been very surprised that such a short period of time has passed since the last release that complaining has started. Usually there is at least two weeks before the whines start. They seem to have started right away this time!!!
There is so much in this game that I can't see anyone getting bored. All ya have to do is move to other aspects of the game if you get frustrated with one aspect.
I think we have been spoiled here too!! The connection has always been outstanding. Customer service has been one of the key areas that HTC has made an effort that is well above any other company I have dealt with.
I'm still a happy customer (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) There is a lot here we take for granted and will not see in other sims we may move to. Sure it isn't perfect, but very close to perfect (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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IMHO,
I have hit burnout in AW and AH. It always helps to step back, take a breather, then start anew.
I am now a dedicated AH nut and when I get burnt of flying the p47-d30, then I count ten, and up ina d25 or d11 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
..Death to the Luftwabble hords.. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Nomde
63rd FS, 56th FG
"Zemke's Wolfpack"
(http://nomdegurre.tripod.com/signature.jpg)
"God loves the 56th cause we keep Heaven filled"
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An increase in total players, resulting in an increase in the percentage of online players above a static arbitrary rank, would be the norm even if no one ever left.
At any rate, I don't see any reason for people to stay when they don't want to, it does more harm than good. I'd prefer if the most vocal of the unhappy went ahead and found something they enjoy instead.
If they find competition not as good as expected then they may come back happy to have AH. If they don't, well at least we won't have to listen to them anymore.
Finally, Hang is a pansy and is singlehandedly responsible for the ruined reputation of a once proud and belligerant group. My god even New Zealand mocks us now.
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Churn is good for any organisation - it provides excellent feedback to developers and helps identify opportunities for the future. It will always be normal for people to leave: often they will tend to leave shortly after a new release.
If all AW customers had been satisfied, there would have been no Warbirds. If all Warbirds customers had been satisfied, there would have been no Aces High. If all AH customers had been satisfied, there would have been no WW2OL or Target Korea\Target Rabaul.
There is a natural progression between 'game' and 'simulation', and (all other things being equal) players tend towards the 'simulation' end of the spectrum. The good thing about that is that it drags, kicking and screaming, the 'game' end along with it.
In 2 years you will not recognise Aces High. All the things that have been posted about ad nauseam (icons, planesets, gunnery) will probably have changed dramatically. That can only be a good thing, and will always be a necessary response as the simulation 'bar' is raised higher and higher by competitors.
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Jekyll
"Anything else is just a game" :)
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IMO, AH could be one of two things:
A flight sim of WWII era planes or a WWII flight sim. These two concepts are radically different. For new people (just learing for two or three weeks) and people with very little time to play, the first concept is more than enought, you enter the game, pick up a Spit, have some fast dogfights and log off. But for the hardcore WWII aerial war fans that is not enough at all, as time pases, they'll get bored.
Actually, the MA is just like a multiplayer Quake game: you long into the game and you do whatever you want, mainly look for enemies to shoot down, and fly or drive whatever you want. Obviously, this system doesnt create a real and inmersive WWII atmosphere. Organization, coordination and limitations are key factors to achieve this goal, and the players alone are not going to handle well those factors.
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Hm, well, my squad has had three veterans leave in very short order; Jekyll, Kirin and Habicht.
For an historic squad like 9./JG 54, Aces High hasn't really been a suitable sim. It doesn't provide (more than scenarios and snapshots) the WWII feeling. N1k's and Spitfires flying with and against other N1k's and Spits, with a few odd german planes thrown in.
Not to be too harsh, but it does seem to be Quake All vs All, but with a very high fidelity flight model.
I.e, the basic concept, the MA, is almost identical to what one can find on most team oriented quake servers. The difference being that you fly instead of run, and that the BFG is called "Hispano" here.
So, you got excellent flight models, good graphics and all the basics for a very cool sim. And it is that. but for a squad full of people who're interested in the *historical* aspect of WWII air war, it is sorely lacking. That's why I think we see the migration of experienced sticks from Aces High (that and normal burnout).
Aces High will have to adapt to meet the new competition; if WWIIOL falls down dead, there's still target korea, and it's similar to Aces high except it'll have historical sides vs each other and offer more extensive damage modelling, engine management and so forth. I'm sure that AH *will* adapt, and when it does, some of the old sticks will return again to wreck havoc.
Unless, of course, AH will be in the Quake Furball all vs all niche, and have "specialization" as a basic business philosophy - i.e "since the others provide history, we provide furballin'".
We'll see. I do hope the competition HTC is facing will make them take steps that are more in line with MY PERSONAL likings (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
To each his own (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://stsantas.tripod.com/stsanta.jpg)
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I think Funked said it best about online flight sims in general, to the song "Hotel California":
"You can check out anytime you'd like, but you can never leave..."
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http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/003556.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/003556.html)
LOL! Check out the date on the post.
This is the typical month of May in on-line sims.
AKDejaVu
[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 05-31-2001).]
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DejaVu this time there will be serious competition with little different game structure which could be more interesting for some players. Last summer there were no noticeable competitors so ppl still came back to AH.
Lets see what happens this summer (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Zactly Deja... Like clockwork.
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Staga, there is only more competition and choices if one wish to spend whole summer as beta tester collecting logs and reporting bugs (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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jochen (http://sivut.koti.soon.fi/jannousiainen/) / Gefechtsverband Kowalewski
Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.
Sieg oder bolschevismus!
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Talking about boredom in my case is irelevant. I play AH for about a year now (although actively I do play only for a few months) and probably because of that I still find AH very thrilling and exciting to play. Probably I wont get bored until a becoma an 'ace' pilot (and trust me I have stil a loooooong way to go (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)). To becoma an ace is my goal because I have some unfinished unfinished bussiness with those nits and rooks LW guys (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (I dont know why but everytime I take off.. zillions of red (nit or rook) dots appear all around me (all is of course just LW metal) and they start to chase me a big time... Those guys must really fear of our spits when they need 10+ LW planes to hunt down one lonely spit 5 or 9 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
Originally posted by Nomde:
..Death to the Luftwabble hords.. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) yes kill them All... Let god sort them out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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MBirdCZ
CO of Sudden Death Squadron
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I quit about a month ago(not that anyone has noticed) not because of AH or the people but because it's summer and I need to get out and enjoy it.
I didn't make a big deal out of it because I knew I would be back. Just don't know when.
I think there are a lot of guys like me that will be back in the fall when things start cooling off and the girls start wearing cloths again. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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The game is "STAGNATING" ???!!!!!
uh.. yeah right.
Show me another sim that updates half as often as AH.
Some people are getting pretty spoiled if you ask me. They'll be back.
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Well... been doing this for a few years now and i gotta say that every spring the numbers online drop. It seems odd to me that they don't drop more than they do!
mandoble and stsanta...I also find it fun that the LW guys turn everything into "we need historical fights or no one will fly our planes including us" They are of course right. If you are so ridgid that you fly only LW planes you will never enjoy a WWII ac simulation. the LW planes are not that fun. Fighting them is not much fun. They will do in a pinch but variety and ACM go right into the toilet. You can sneak up or you can climb/accelerate away and thats about it in the MA. With "historical" sets the strength of "swarms" of good climbing planes become apparent. They can also usually outrun the enemy. Add the pacific planes and you have planes that will outturn and run down the runners. Look at WB WWII arena for a lesson in the sheer mind numbing boredom and predictability of such a setup. With only a few planes to come up against and only a few to aide the fight... very little skill in plane tactics is needed. you can settle ino the comfortable predictability of only having to identify a couple of FM's and act accordingly. Any slight FM bug is magnified 10 fold and is much more frustrating in an "historic" arena.
lazs
[This message has been edited by lazs (edited 05-31-2001).]
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Thanks all.
First for keeping the topic civil and second for giving me, and perhaps others something to think about.
My problem may be that, unlike many who play online games, I am one dimensional.
WWII aircraft and specifically Strategic Bombing is a hobby for me rather than a sometime diversion so I expect too much too soon I guess.
My statement regarding stagnation was not directed at the progress or quality of additions but more to the slow development of strategic options in the main arena.
If Aces High remains my primary online focus I will just find about a dozen or so guys who log in to fly 95% US bombers and become the scourge of the FDB homeland.
Hangtime, you are right about the people being a part of the interest, wondering just what those FDBs will do next is worth part of the fee.
Pyro, Thank You.
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When did they put this thing in here and WTF is it for?
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Sun,
You must rate with the creator to get him to reply on your post. I truly miss flying with ya bud. I agree the game tempo is changing to more of gaming feel vs a true WW2 simulation. A salvation for me has been my squad "56th fighter group" We keep our tactics fun and try to be strategic. If you come back in make a mikssion with the Mad Bombers if they still exist, we will escort ya anytime.
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lazs, I cant talk for Santa, but in my case, what I want is a generalized mission system, not a free for all style game, and that doesn't mean flying only for LW neither a HA. Just to feel part of something organized, synchronized and with goals distributed in a discrete time window.
Just an idea, how about enabling score/perks only for mission asigned planes/vehicles, and only once a goal is achieved, then considering the rest as non scoring/perks "free flights"? Perhaps this way more people will be interested into mission edition and into joining active missions.
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Sun,
You hit the nail right on the head. I'm also a bomber dweeb and enjoy the strat bombing role. Lately, it just hasn't been a whole lot of fun. I've been flying less so I can sorta recharge my enthusiasm (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I've noticed that the Main Arena has become more of a furballing paradise than anything else. Note the other threads on this topic of furballing vs Strat stuff. I've been batting around different sides over the past couple of months and there just seems to be less and less interest in bombing a field, leveling it, removing enemy fighters from it and capturing it. I flew for the Bishops a few nights ago and in 5 hours, we only took 2 fields. Nevermind we had 90 players versus the 50 or 60 the other sides had. I couldn't beleive it. 2 fields away from winning a reset and we couldnt hunker-down and take them. <shrug>
So, I think the boredom you and I are feeling are the woes of 2 strat bomber dweebs. At least, that's how I feel. I don't wanna go off topic on the furball-vs-strategic playing in Main Arena, as that horse has been beat to death already.
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Paul J. Busiere
Aces High Arena handle: BD5Pilot
http://bd5.checksix.net (http://bd5.checksix.net)
BD-5 "T" (TurboProp) 90% complete, first flight in 2001 (We hope!)
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mandoble and stsanta...I also find it fun that the LW guys turn everything into "we need historical fights or no one will fly our planes including us"
Hey lazs, you got your mouth so close to mine that if I tongue kiss you, I'll wipe your butt.
Stop putting words in my mouth. I've never said anything resembling that.
I was commenting that HISTORICALLY ORIENTED SQUADS PREFER HISTORICALLY CORRECT SIMS.
Let me know if you get confused, I can probably draw pictures if needed.
I really hate people who put words in my mouth. They don't taste well and it's a very impolite thing to do.
They are of course right. If you are so ridgid that you fly only LW planes you will never enjoy a WWII ac simulation.
Hey lazy, now you got your mouth so close to my brain the breath is killing my brain cells.
I enjoy the sim. You're wrong. QED.
the LW planes are not that fun. Fighting them is not much fun. They will do in a
pinch but variety and ACM go right into the toilet. You can sneak up or you can climb/accelerate away and thats about it in the MA.
Heh, they require more thought and patience than t&b'ers. You're probably not a very experienced LW pilot since you haven't discovered that the LW birds can do some astonishing things and the 109 for example is a great knife fighter.
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Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://stsantas.tripod.com/stsanta.jpg)
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Maverick and Lazs both had points that are dead on (in my experience).
Alot of guys were really into AW or WB for the 'fighting against a person' factor.
After 15,000+ kills over 5 years of playing an online flight sim with a decent FM, some old hands are going to get the attitude that 'a kill is a kill'. It can get to the point where you are having 1 or 2 'good fights' a month while spending lots of hours playing nonetheless.
Some guys get/got into it for the challenge and when the challenge has lessened they move on to something else.
This doesn't mean in any way that AH isn't a really good game/simulation/etc. in my opinion.
Some guys get to the point that they aren't challenged anymore but they got into the simulation more for their love of WW2 aviation than the 'fighting against a real person aspect', or their love of WW2 aviation keeps them active, etc., etc., etc.
=garn= is a good example of this in my book (leaving because after a zillion kills a kill is a kill is a kill, and once you've mastered 25 FMs the next 10 new ones aren't as exciting).
=drex= is an example of the love of aviation outweighing the lack of any challenge. 8)
Lazs is right about springtime in my opinion as well.
My small bit of anecdotal evidence: I played WB for a long long time. Quit WB because I was bored.
But whenever I see some guncam footage, sometimes I get 'the bug' to go light up something that's being flown. And I choose AH to do it. I probably start a new account 1/2-3 months and keep it for 2 weeks...until I get 'bored' again. And me being 'bored' has nothing to do with AH...it has everything to do with lots of time spent in the past enjoying a similar product.
New guys, enjoy being new. Lots of guys miss the time when every sortie caused you to sweat a little. 8)
Mike (wulfie)
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One more thing for lazs:
What you need to remember is that some people fly aircraft out of an attraction to that aircraft that started a long long time ago. They don't care about 'fairness' or 'stats' or other things like that.
When I was very very young the only 'grown up' books on aircraft I had were on the Fw 190 and Bf 109.
It sounds really silly, but from day 1 in WB I only flew those aircraft in WB (well, 90% over time) because I thought 'if the FM is fairly realistic, and guys in real life could kick bellybutton in this aircraft, then I should be able to learn to do this'.
A steep learning curve (i.e. low speed knife fighting in a Fw 190A, *or* the F4U, or the P-47, etc., etc., etc.) is the most fun/challenging thing out there for some guys.
Literally, I'd catch myself being able to do something (not everything) better and easier in some other aircraft type but I'd always have this voice in my head (from when I developed my fixation with WW2 aircraft) saying 'yeah, but you aren't in a Fw 190'. And I'd actually feel a little guilty. 8)
In a modern flight sim my Fw 190 would be the F-4 Phantom - lots of attachment to that aircraft (I had alot of 'grown up' friends who flew the F-4 when I was a kid).
In other words, the 'challenge' for me was to do the best I could in any situation versus any aircraft in 1 or 2 types of aircraft. Different strokes for different folks I guess. You like shooting up alot of people in a short period of time on every sortie flying anything available. I can't really knock that. 8)
StSanta - some advice based on some serious experience in terms of hours 'wasted' playing online flight sims - get your 'realism and team player atmosphere' fix by flying in special events and scenarios. Almost every guy with you will be like minded. And a loony bin MA is the perfect place to hone your ACM and gunnery without worrying about score, etc.
It worked for me at least.
Mike (wulfie)
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Pyro,
I seriously doubt that player burnout had *anything* to do with preventing you, HT, and GJ retiring as wealthy men from the ICI venture. 8)
You guys are smart at AH. I see you haven't found the need to go out and hire a 'president'. (salute)
Sincerely - better luck this time around.
Mike (wulfie)
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wulfie.. I agree.. some people fly a certain type of aircraft out of love of that ac. Got no problem with that but... If they fly only that ac and steep themselves into the pomp and rut of that ac and related "historical" aspects then everything about the sim will be tainted for them if it doesn't work out well for their ac. think about it... if you fly only LW planes and give yourself a LW title and join a LW squad.... How are you gonna be happy in a mixed arena? Everything that takes away from your "histortic advantage" will gall. All your effort to give yourself airs will be ignored by the community and you can't get the respect that you are sure you "deserve".
I have dozens of books on WWII aviation I enjoy them thoroughly... I even know how it all turned out.. I have no interest in pale imitations or in blasphemy. Historical planesets are the very smallest part of simulating WWII air combat IMO and if you lack the knowledge or imagination to see that then you will allways be unhappy. I would rather just pretend that In 1940-45 everyone (3 countries) had access to everyone elses planes and now we get to find out how they woulda done against each other.
mandoble... again.. you want to force people to fly the way you want. I'm not sure that is such a good idea.
stsanta.. you take yourself too seriously... you ain't that deep. Agendas shine through. skill/patience I disagree with you that they are interchangeable words. B&Z T&B... that's not all there is too it but... if I can choose between doing something most of time or preparing to do something.... I will pick doing something. I have seen "historical" arenas and they degenerate into only a few tactics and even less ACM. To be able to call myself uberfhurer or general is not worth it to me. I'm glad you are enjoying the game and I do notice that you take a lot of the pomp with a healthy grain of salt. I would however, be interested in your ideas as to why LW guys allways leave a sim that doesn't have "historical" flavor.
lazs
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Originally posted by wulfie:
New guys, enjoy being new. Lots of guys miss the time when every sortie caused you to sweat a little. 8)
Mike (wulfie)
Amen.
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Or when every kill was an amazing feat....
-SW
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If they fly only that ac and steep themselves into the pomp and rut of that ac and related "historical" aspects then everything about the sim will be tainted for them if it doesn't work out well for their ac. think about it... if you fly only LW planes and give yourself a LW title and join a LW squad.... How are you gonna be happy in a mixed arena? Everything that takes away from your "histortic advantage" will gall. All your effort to give yourself airs will be ignored by the community and you can't get the respect that you are sure you "deserve".
Very well said Lazs.
AKDejaVu
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Yes. Very well said and the same literally goes for those who think they're an Allied re-incarnation too. Mosty of those players are over in WB's however.
-Westy
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Its summer, get yer pasty whitefaced bellybutton out from in front of the computer and enjoy the weather!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Or stay in front of the computer with your brand spanking new force feedback wheel playing Nascar 4, working on setups and practicing with your teammates for the league races every Wednesday nite like I do (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) LOL!!
-Ding
aka SR_Fritz
Spectre Racing
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If they fly only that ac and steep themselves into the pomp and rut of that ac and related "historical" aspects then everything about the sim will be tainted for them if it doesn't work out well for their ac.
It's not about what works out for our aircraft. It's about finding something that can help create an illusion of WWII. That's why I fly AH, and that's why I fly in a German squad. I care less about allies planes being superior, as long as I can have my little illusion.
think about it... if you fly
only LW planes and give yourself a LW title and join a LW squad.... How are you gonna be happy in a mixed arena? Everything that takes away from your "histortic advantage" will gall. All your effort to give yourself airs will be ignored by the community and you can't get the respect that you are sure you "deserve".
Again, I'm talking about the illusion. And I don't care for "historic advantage" whatever that means, nor do I care for "community respect". I care for the illusion.
AH had great potential to fulfill my needs. but as it is, it has grown more and more into a big Quake in the sky all vs all. Foor people like you lazs, that is perfect. For people like me, Kirin, Hazed, Habicht and others, it is less than perfect. I don't berate you for having a different taste than me; what I do hate is your amateur psychology where you falsely attribute hidden agendas to me. It's diddlying rude.
I have dozens of books on WWII aviation I enjoy them thoroughly... I even know how it all turned out.. I have no interest in pale imitations or in blasphemy. Historical planesets are the very smallest part of simulating WWII air combat IMO and if you lack the knowledge or imagination to see that then you will allways be unhappy. I would
rather just pretend that In 1940-45 everyone (3 countries) had access to everyone elses planes and now we get to find out how they woulda done against each other.
That's a "what if" scenario. Taken a bit more to the extreme, what if the Germans had developed a fighter like the MiG 15? Or what if you took the American engines and put into the 190s?
One way of limiting in scope (and therefore making more possible to implement) a WWII sim is to 'stick to the facts*. If you don't, it ain't a WWII sim. It's a pseudo WWII sim.
stsanta.. you take yourself too seriously... you ain't that deep. Agendas shine through.
LOL, you do not know me very well at all (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif). The only person I take less seriously than anyone else is myself. And that's quite an achievement (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
What are my agendas? You seem to know all the stuff in my head. Your agendas it seems it to have Ah turn into what it is now, a what if non historic Quake using WWII planes. My agenda, if you wish to call it that, is to push for more history into something thatt supposedly is about WWII. Not just related to.
skill/patience I disagree with you that they are interchangeable words.
Now you're PISSING ME OFF. When did I say this? Stop putting words in my mouth.
... arenas and they degenerate into only a few tactics and even less ACM.
Dude you simply do not know the LW planes like me if you think that only a few moves can be done in them. I'd say a plane like the 109 can do MORE than a point and click Spit. And encourage you to apply more advanced ACM, combined with more brain matter involved. have you ever seen one of nath's films? I have one where we do a 1v1 in 109's; if you don't call that ACM and knife fighting, I don't know what is, because we go through every trick in the book.
I would however, be interested in your ideas as to why LW guys allways leave a sim
that doesn't have "historical" flavor.
And I told you.
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Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://stsantas.tripod.com/stsanta.jpg)
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Wow. A real change... interesting reading here. <S!>
One thing that got my ears perked up...
I'd say a plane like the 109 can do MORE than a point and click Spit. And encourage you to apply more advanced ACM, combined with more brain matter involved.
[/b]
Amen to that Reverend Santa!
It is true that now more than ever, getting into a fight in the MA is a lot easier to do than getting out of it alive. You can use every ACM page in Shaws, win your fight and be buried 3 seconds later... but that's the MA. It's my opinion that the guys who color the gettin killed part with brighter colors than the "gawd that was a great fight" part eventually walk away from the sim feeling dissatisfied.
I still (and suspect I always will) hugely enjoy the fight[/i], disregard the death, and continue to work for those bright shiny little moments of ACM perfection when you pull the the angles just right, beat the notorious badguy to the corner and turn him into confetti... *BOOM* "..forgive me; but I do love it so..."
Just another day in the MA... where losing is just part of winning.
Hang
[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 06-02-2001).]
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Here is a reply I posted in another thread which I believe is appropos
OK guys, allow me to play therapist! I hear dissatisfaction. However, there is a cure. Find a way to play the game the way "you" feel it should be played with what we have right now and your game will only improve as different planes, terrains etc. are added in the future.
I believe I read the word "immersion" in 3 posts, ok maybe 2 and 1 implied. Immersion to me means that when I start playing I'm no longer a middle aged mid-level manager in 21st century central Pa. I'm 21 years old, first time away from home and in command of the pride of the 8th Air Force a B-17 Flying Fortress. I'm sitting in a smoke filled room waiting for the CO to enter and announce the mission but the smoke doesn't bother me cause I'm as ignorant as dung about any cancer causing elements in it. Instead I suck on my Camel with abandon and wonder what today's mission will bring. TENHUT!!! The CO enters, yanks back the courtain and a hush comes over the quonset hut. Jumping Jehosephat!!! Bish HQ "AND" all the support facilities near it. The city, munitions factories, training facilities etc. etc. All in one mission!!! Plot lines are all over the map. Bomber streams from 3 bases, fighter escorts from 3 more. One big rendevouz point with altitudes and headings all over the map. Boy, if we pull this off the Evil Bish are going to be reduced to a crying whimpering mass.
This guys is IMMERSION and believe it or not it's available and possible right now. What keeps us from doing it is the desire of guys like me to "force" guys who only want to come in here for 45 minutes, shoot things up a bit and then go on to something else. What a guy like me has got to do is to find enough other nuts that think alike, get together and we'll all be happy campers.
I don't care who's leaving and why they're leaving. I only care about me and others that think as I do enjoying ourselves.
Beeg
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st said... "That's a "what if" scenario. Taken a bit more to the extreme, what if the Germans had
developed a fighter like the MiG 15? Or what if you took the American engines and put into the
190s?
One way of limiting in scope (and therefore making more possible to implement) a WWII sim is
to 'stick to the facts*. If you don't, it ain't a WWII sim. It's a pseudo WWII sim."
even you must see the absurdity of that. the MA is about making for the most variety without making things too lopsided. How would adding a mig to the mix do any good. As for "fantasy... well... I would bet that more allies got into dogfites with other allied planes than ever seen an axis plane. sure... they never fired at each other but they did it. We get to not only find out how these planes would do against each other but instead of saying "ratta tat tat" we get to shoot big chunks off said planes. Immersive? How is dogfiting in LW planes anything like WWII air combat, especially with no finger fours at low alts? How is a sky full of D9's realistic? The more "immersive" you make it the more boring it will be. there is no "sticking to the facts (at least historicaly) in any HA I have ever seen... No, the "facts", for me, are faithfull FM's, accurate gunnery and well modeled damage. I can supply the imagination. Look at the "exodus" the LW guys are leaving and the bombers are leaving. the former because they are boxed into a corner of their own making and the latter because they have tied themselves to an unrealistic, concession ridden and antagonistic (to the other players) set of ac.
lazs
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I have read most of this thread and i agree totally with Stsanta about the 'illusion' you try to create when playing these games.Hes totally correct when he says that as the game becomes more and more 'quake' like i lose more and more interest.A completely clear indication of this is when your country is down to 2 bases and your tactical and strategic options are reduced to 1! ,defend against attakers.This is a condensed version of a 'furball MA'.It may take longer but you will eventually get pissed off/bored with it.
The more options available to you, (eg shall i jabo ?,take a long bomber run? fighter sweep?) you can do what you feel like on the day.So i say put even more depth in, not dumb realistic engine starts! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) but expand the map with bridges and rivers etc,radar changes,strategic targets with greater affect, make us use our brains to win.Im not saying take out the chance to furball because i love those too, same as hangtime, its the aplication of ACM and the learning of them that makes it fun.What i dont want 'personally' is a simplistic WW2 checkers game where one country takes a peice of the other over and over.You can see that giving players the chance to do something other than bombing a base works , LOOK how many HQ raids are flown!.Well lets give the big bombers more targets that really give an obvious affect rather than just knowing it has slowed the respawn (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) (its a dit dull isnt it).
Well I do like the german planes and do you know what? i like the Empire in starwars!. Dasterdly and mutley in the wacky racers! LAZ analyse that mate and as usual 3x3 = 130 therefore im a nazi maskwearing dog beater right? Laz and AKdeja I put it to YOU that you are the ones that need to take things less seriously.Im here to play a WW2 game with more in it than just dogfighting over and over.I want to be able to drive tanks,fly off ships,join in with everyone in big attacks,raids and landings etc.When i ask for changes i am thinking of the game as a whole becomeing more enjoyable not just trying to get the best plane for the LW so i can charge around all day winning.Sure it would be great to be able to take a superior plane like the me262 up but like i said before its what you feel like on the day.Perhaps you'll want to bomb the crap out of something who knows?
Its about personal taste.I just dont see in AH what i see the books about the war and as a result the immersion or illusion is lost.
'One way of limiting in scope (and therefore making more possible to implement) a WWII sim is
to 'stick to the facts*. If you don't, it ain't a WWII sim. It's a pseudo WWII sim."'
I agree with this laz.purely because if it goes into the realms of fantasy the game loses its whole focus on WW2.
quoteing your post Laz:
even you must see the absurdity of that. the MA is about making for the most variety without making things too lopsided. How would adding a mig to the mix do any good. As for "fantasy... well... I would bet that more allies got into dogfites with other allied planes than ever seen an axis plane. sure... they never fired at each other but they did it. We get to not only find out how these planes would do against each other but instead of saying "ratta tat tat" we get to shoot big chunks off said planes. Immersive? How is dogfiting in LW planes anything like WWII air combat, especially with no finger fours at low alts? How is a sky full of D9's realistic? The more "immersive" you make it the more boring it will be. there is no "sticking to the facts (at least historicaly) in any HA I have ever seen... No, the "facts", for me, are faithfull FM's, accurate gunnery and well modeled damage. I can supply the imagination. Look at the "exodus" the LW guys are leaving and the bombers are leaving. the former because they are boxed into a corner of their own making and the latter because they have tied themselves to an unrealistic, concession ridden and antagonistic (to the other players) set of ac.
lazs'
you missed the point stsanta was trying to make laz.We dont want the exact numbers just the exact tools but without the fussy 'over the top' sim stuff.same as you we all enjoy the fighting but some ,myself incuded prefer things to 'look right'.I flew a whole bunch of ju88s on a hq raid and what attacked us? spitfires at one point which was fantasic.and you say more imersive is boring? PAH!. ok 1 spit never dived into a pack of ju88s without a care for his life and in real life things would be done different but so what? it looked and felt better than when a russian or japanese plane does the same thing.
Im all for trying a HA or a pacific arena and european theatre arena.This doesnt mean i want it to be flown like the real thing with everyone diving away at the slightest hint of danger.
its the 'ILLUSION' of doing what they did with fun thrown in ok?
If we suggest more historically correct matchups youre at our throats but in the same breath you say you want accurate fms,realistic gunnery and damage effects.Well how is this different? you want the illusion that your flying in a realistic aircraft with realistic guns,well others and i would like to add realistic targets and enemy to that list.
THATS 3 things you want and 2 things we want ! lol you still win (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Hazed
9./JG54
[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 06-02-2001).]
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Hazed, I in no way criticize someone's choice of aircraft be it Axis or Allied.
The point lazs made that I agree with is that most ardent supporters of their aircraft type are the same that are critical of what everyone else is flying. As if there is some need to ensure that not only is that pilot doing what he feels is imersive.. but everyone else must too.
Other than that.. I said nothing that merits "take the game less seriously". You're simply sounding defensive now.
AKDejaVu
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defensive? you live in a dream world.maybe i shouldnt have put you in the same sentance as laz (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 06-02-2001).]
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This degenerated into a "fight my way" or "I'm better because..."
Curiously, it's the LW that's doing the bickering about how hard it is to fly their aircraft (hard... I guess that's a word you can use interchangebly with different these days... I find them fairly easy planes to fly) and then trying to enforce your viewpoint and opinion onto everyone else.
It doesn't change from game to game, the only thing that changes is speed of the song... the tune and melody stay the same.
-SW
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Originally posted by 1776:
Well, here's my $.02.
What's that in Canadian? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Well I know Nuttz had a terrain called COFFEE that look impressive and was large enough for the MA.
Pokie
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There are two camps present here.
Camp 1: Want to participate in an aerial score-fight of WWII type aircraft.
Camp 2: Want to try and re-create the experience of being Douglas Bader or Guenther Landt.
Camp 1 is excitement via thrill a minute, explosions, gunfire, dogfights; bombers to shoot down, targets to blow up, boats to sink; constant adrenaline.
Camp 2 is excitement via the intensity of a 'realistic' WWII style engagement, hard flying; strategic maneuvers that may mean non-action; bombers and other vehicles to 'repulse' and defend against, boats as mobile strategic sources. Never knowing when the adrenaline rush will be needed.
You may not like the next paragraph. Grit your teeth and bear with me...
Camp 2 accuses Camp 1 of being 'dishonourable' or being 'dweebs'. They aren't. They're having fun, they're playing a game. If OffMap is wrong, it shouldn't be possible. Car bombing may be unrealistic, but where's it said you can't do it. Throwing your plane at the enemy CV, TBM or Lanc may be 'dweebish', but isn't the object of the GAME to blow up things in the sky, sea and land?
Camp 1 see Camp 2 as perpetual whiners, for the reasons stated above. But this is a WWII "Sim", it's supposed to simulate air, sea and ground combat as experienced by WWII pilots (and drivers). They're looking to pit their flying and strategic-thinking skills against other human beings. Rammings, car-bombings, offmappings are all 'unrealistic' and defeat the purpose of their involvement in this 'simulation'...
Thing is...
I think most of us enjoy Camp 1, even though I would claim to be of Camp 2. At the same time, with the right environment, I think MANY of the #1ers would actually enjoy spending time in a Camp 2 arena...
It happened with the HA in WB2 until the arena was toned down. The first week or so was intense, and well popoulated.
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Curiously, it's the LW that's doing the bickering about how hard it is to fly their aircraft (hard... I guess that's a word you can use interchangebly with different these days... I find them fairly easy planes to fly) and then trying to enforce your viewpoint and opinion onto everyone else.
Seawulfe, I hope you reread this thread. You'll see that I have said nothing like that. it started off with lazs saying that LW fighters are boring and can only be flown in very limited ways. I say the opposite is true. I find LW fighters pretty easy to fly and fight in; then again, I find the zeke to be so ridiculously easy to fight in it's almost not fun. The Spit is even easier.
It is rare for me to come across a Spit or N1K that fights intelligently. Usually they go for the HO and then for turns, even against an A6M. When I DO meet a Spit pilot with a brain, I know I'm in trouble.
This whole thing started when i tried to explain why my squad has lost so many member. lazs instantly started attacking my points and put words in my mouth. Perhaps this is a new strategy from people now that most of the "LW only LW is superior" crowd post very little.
The MA is a big "all planes vs all planes" arena. And if you look at it, what separates it from a CK or Unreal Tournament team game, it's the planes and the fm. One could call it "Capture the flag".
For some, like lazs, this is fine. For others, like the squaddies of mine who have left, it is not exactly what is wanted, but it is with wwii planes with a very well modelled FM. Hence my comment about HTC finding a niche with the new competition coming out; Target Korea and WWIIOL will focus more on the historic aspect, whereas AH will be more of a capture the flag sort of thing.
Unless of course HTC move it to another course, something that is hard since AH is doing it the way it's always been done, much like WB II and soon WBIII.
Just a matter of preferences.
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Greets all, been some time since I posted here.
Some of you might remember me, some of you know me, and it seems there are a fair number of names here I don't know.
Just read all the previous posts, and for the most part, everyone has a good point to a degree of some sort.
There is a place for the mindless furballers, and there is a place for the stretegic types.
and oddly enuff I think, I think that both can and will co-exist in AH.
The main reason I left had to do strictly with cash flow. Medical bills pile up much to fast.
But at the same time, the game had become quite stagnant to me. (some call it major burnout).
IMNSHO, the current strat model is ok, but a bit to limited. Think it was dingy that noted that there needs to be MORE strat stuff. Bridges, roads, trains, that kind of stuff.
My primary enjoyment was originally the B-17. I enjoyed the long flights, trying to keep my eyes jumping all over the place to keep them pesky "bad guys" from sneaking up on my lone bomber.
But it gets boring after a while, just as I found furballing mindlessly gets boring too, especially when too many good sticks are out and about. (I'll never even qualify as a decent ACM stick, much less a good one).
Even though on very rare occassions I showed the momentary flash of some modicum of skill.
Because of the three sided nature of the current setup, there will always be the one side or another getting creamed. Thats just the nature of the three sided beast.
I know the fact that rankles some is the same plane fighting same plane thing. Well in a three sided conflict how else would you do it?
So that in it's self is not really an issue is it?
I think the main thing that would help AH, would be to strengthen the role of the strat. side of the game. Continue with the increase of the various plane types, but with the strat playing, being a less determining factor, you'll seldom see the mass bombers, and true fighter sweeps against raiders, (be they airborne or GV's, or Naval).
Use the strat. side to actually show some sort of major effect rather than just some minor 2 hour annoyance factor.
Who knows, some day I may be actually able to afford to come back.
SC-GreyBeard
[This message has been edited by SC-GreyBeard (edited 06-04-2001).]
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Santa:
"lazs instantly started attacking my points and put words in my mouth"
JFYI lazs used this tactics for as long as I can remember on the AGW.Sometimes with, sometimes without a point.No big deal really - just dont let him get under your skin :=)And of course he is not the only one.
danish
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well... it seems to me that those who want an "historical" arena only want a very small slice of history. They want to fly the lopsided nature that was WWII they want uber planes in every phase. They don't want to fly finger fours or at 25K or whatever. I don't think you could make it realistic enough that I would be immersed so I would just as soon have a good challenge like our everything vs everything arena. Why settle for the boredom, lack of parity and variety that is Axis vs Allied?
Mindless furball? Strat is mindless in this game. Most of the "good" strat pilots get their bellybutton handed to em by the mindless furballers. Most of the guys in my squad are mindless furballers... What is more mindless than limiting each side to only a few planes? Seems to me that all the historical set wants is an edge and... they want their planes to have a chance in the arena and be used a lot more but...
truth is their planes are boring and when PAC planes are added to the mix their planes are not competitive. That's the way it was and that's the way it works out in the MA. I do not want to face hordes of boring planes that all do the exact same moves every time you meet em. I don't want to be in or face that days uber ride. Had enough of that in WB.
lazs
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If I were referring to your limpwristed leatherwearing lispwaffe dumb bellybutton Santa, I would of quoted you and made direct references to your inability to wear normal clothes and the lisp that I constantly hear eminating from your mouth whenever you try to use the letter "s"....
-SW
:-)
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The way I see it, the MA is always gonna be what it is....a place for folks to fly however they want in whatever they want. If you want historical match-ups then show up for the special events and weekly stuff that the CM's host. The MA is not the place for historical match-ups.
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lazs(1?), you jumped all over SW/Mr.T/Seawulfe for changing his handle a few weeks ago. Who do you think you're kidding here? Are you trying to be Mr. Cool? Is the the "1" you added to your handle supposed to imply that you are the #1 pile-it here?? Do you not think we know who you are?
Puhleeze!
(I know you lost your profile in the crash, just friendly ribbing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
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Uhmm, I don't know about everyone else, but I enjoy flying the historic scenarios because of the Allied vs Axis part. I don't really care which side my squad flies for, nor which plane I end up flying (because honestly, I'll die in whatever you put me in pretty damned fast!) All I want in an event (or a HA if one ever comes about, which I don't think should until AH has a larger active subscriber base) is to fly in the same plane as my squaddies and go against historical enemies. That's what I get out of the scenarios, and I'm very thankful for them. However, they only happen for a few hours on the weekends. Plus, sometimes the event itself doesn't interest me that much. A historical arena would hopefully give that same feeling I get from the scenarios, i.e. knowing if I'm up in an Allied plane, I'll be fighting Axis iron, and vice versa if I'm in an Axis craft.
I would assume that the people wanting a historical arena want the same thing. I don't think the majority of them want a rolling planeset because their particular AC would be "uber" at some point. I could be wrong, as I really don't know what everyone else thinks. I guess the difference is I'm not so cynical to think that everyone who expresses an opinion has some hidden agenda which somehow would give them an advantage. I think people who express intelligent opinions are doing so because they want to make the game a little more fun for themselves and people like them. Maybe I'm just too much of an optimist or too open minded. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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<S> nifty .Exactly mate.If i just wanted to fly uber rides i wouldnt choose to fly 190a8s, 109g2's, or ju88s which i fly probably the most.
Hidden agendas? they need to get out more.
The one thing i have stood by all my life in ANY competition is fairness and honour.
I have sword fenced (epee & foil) for Great Britain in Hungary and had the dubious honour of fighting the French,Germans,Hungarians,Italians and many others, even an Argentinian (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).I ALWAYS stuck to the rules even when i saw my french opponent using certain known cheating tactics to gain advantage.He won the match as he was much better than me and more experienced and the 'cheat' he used was a minor one but in my eyes he didnt win fairly so he didnt win.Simple as that.(dang frogs (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)) joke my french friends (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I dont want an advantage over my opponents in AH either unless it was one that was truelly there(eg me262).and only then as a break from flying more challenging stuff like 109f4's etc.
I dont ask for changes to give myself an advantage at all and i suspect those that do think this is the 'agenda' (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) are more likely to be those that would use unfair advantage and so assume everyone else would too.If you cant win with fairness and honour you are not winning at all.
Now a matter of life and death is a different ball game (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) but competiton is only worth it if you dont cheat.
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Hazed
9./JG54
P.s. i beat the Argentinian (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) ! Beleive me if i didnt as a Brit id have never lived it down! Scored 5 hits on the French champion too (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 06-04-2001).]
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Hey Laz, a real pilot does good no matter what plane he is given.
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WE NEED A REASON TO EXIST ! c'mon , tiered perk system that noodlelizes people for beng quakiots, more deaths you have the fewer the avial a/c, but still have ability to purchase perkies with accum pts. As it is this game gets boring after 'mastering' it because you see the same quakiot behavior going on and on..... no rhyme no reason.
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S!
AH has become a bit more furball oriented than a few months ago when I started to play it.Some like it, some don't.I like the Check6 and SnapShots.I found them recently again after the humiliation in Hostile Shores (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)Had to recover from it...
But about arenas.In WB there was quite a choice of them and ppl was on almost every of them.In AH we have MA and SEA+TA and DA.MA is always crowded,TA has some pilots now and then,DA is more quiet(at least when I am online,time zones?)If we had a HA arena or similar,there would be ppl.I don't think it would suck too many players from MA,since those who play "historical" arenas are of a bit different type IMO.Yes,it is sometimes fun to just blast Yer way through the hordes of enemies,but I enjoy more "historical" arenas.Even this means I have to fight in "inferior" LW planes against "uber" Allied coffins (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
About "AH burn out"...I had one last tour and reduced my playing dramatically this tour to avoid it.I don't want to lose interest in this game yet.I have lot to learn from it and maybe something to give for it(target drone maybe? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)).HTC has done good job and deserve all the credits.Updates are frequent and customer service is outstanding,not to mention their patience with us whining/nitpicking/flaming etc. hordes (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)MAybe we just need more refinement in AH than new features or vehicles/planes.
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DB603
3.Lentue
Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34/)
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*deleted*
[This message has been edited by DB603 (edited 06-05-2001).]
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*deleted darn triple post*
[This message has been edited by DB603 (edited 06-05-2001).]
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Hey Hazed, ya got another "tireur" here (sabre) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Well, what did you expect with such a callsign? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
!
Daniel, aka Cyrano
>