Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on March 29, 2004, 08:10:38 AM
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Just curious...because I know over the last 4 years, there have been some disenchanted posts about Bush being religious...
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&u=/ap/20040329/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_21&printer=1
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Well, I believe that it currently still is impossible to become president of the US if you're not religious (read christian, perhaps jewish), be it either atheist or clearly non-practicing. Kerry therefore has to be a practicing something.
The problem with Bush, at least I judge it to be one, is that he is often led in his decisions by the most stringent of explanations/guidelines forthcoming out of his faith.
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Kerry? :D
Catholic? :D
Oh man Rip, you kill me! :rofl
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I am left-handed and I really don't think it matters one way or the other. :D
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I thought he was Jewish.. :confused:
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Originally posted by Thud
Well, I believe that it currently still is impossible to become president of the US if you're not religious (read christian, perhaps jewish),
In 7 states it's illegal for atheists to hold public office as per the States' constitutions.
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Originally posted by myelo
In 7 states it's illegal for atheists to hold public office as per the States' constitutions.
c'mon, I cannot believe this !!!!!
:eek:
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http://www.nebraskaatheists.org/article1.htm
Maryland Constitution
nor shall any person, otherwise competent, be deemed incompetent as a witness, or juror, on account of his religious belief; provided, he believes in the existence of God,
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His religion doesnt bother me (I didnt even know he was religious, he seems like an athiest to me). His left of left wing kennedy politics and pro communist anti war protests are what bothers me.
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Certain evangelical Protestants don't think Catholics are even Christians -- all the idol worship and trinity and pope stuff.
Charon
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Hehe, another whole punched in the fabric. :D
Nice one Rip.
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Cut and Paste Master.
Multi-tasking, and why India is taking those jobs at it's finest.
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Considering he's catholic, whats his voting record on abortion issues? Anyone?
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pro abortion catholic? sounds like he needs more "practice"
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Originally posted by myelo
In 7 states it's illegal for atheists to hold public office as per the States' constitutions.
You're kidding, so much for the division between church and nanny state.:D
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As long as kerrys religion dose not interfer with his politics i could care less. But if he starts spouting off about how god told him to attack al queada or that god has pushed him to run for president.
If kerry starts doing that ill just piss on the voting machine.
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looks like i wont have to pee on the voting machine just found this. "I don't tell church officials what to do, and church officials shouldn't tell American politicians what to do in the context of our public life," -kerry
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Does it bother the right?
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Does it bother the right?
Personally, Im more concerned with his politics.
I wouldnt vote him into the Presidency or the Papicy.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Does it bother the right?
Well, the hipocracy probably would...but that never bothers liberals.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
As long as kerrys religion dose not interfer with his politics i could care less. But if he starts spouting off about how god told him to attack al queada or that god has pushed him to run for president.
If kerry starts doing that ill just piss on the voting machine.
That's not an approved method of casting your ballot. I bet you live in Florida, right?
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Does it bother the right?
Kerry scares the hell out of them - ergo the post.
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Originally posted by AKIron
That's not an approved method of casting your ballot. I bet you live in Florida, right?
lol i vote in florida. And i think some of the old people confused them as urinals last time around.
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Kerry scares the hell out of them - ergo the post.
So you failed to see the hipocracy?
Kerry=Pro-abortion
Catholic Church=Anti-abortion
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
So you failed to see the hipocracy?
Kerry=Pro-abortion
Catholic Church=Anti-abortion
You need to get up to date on yer pc terminology Rip, it's pro-choice and anti-abortion (pro-life is no longer pc). ;)
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Oh those evil lefties. They all hate jesus and are all hypocrites and blah blah blah. Almost as bad as them damned dirty conservatives. Always giving breaks to the rich and punishing the poor, and shipping our jobs overseas and blah blah blah.
Hmmm, I wanted to try and join in and see if there was something fulfilling in typing nonsensical garbage, but I'm just not feeling it. Oh well. Keep on keeping on, Drippy and the rest.
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o,boy I tought Jesus was a lefty ? :D (ya know belive in the weak and feel sorry for your enemies, and dont use violence/firearms I guess that ment sword vs youre enemys)
But I understand now ,thanks for the enlightment rip :)
I guess bush is ruling with his right hand and having his meditation with his left. ( was that left or right im just as confuesed as him i guess) :)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
So you failed to see the hipocracy?
Kerry=Pro-abortion
Catholic Church=Anti-abortion
All Catholics agree with everything the church says, just like all Americans agree with everything the government says.
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I wanted to try and join in
and
see if there was something fulfilling
in typing nonsensical garbage,
but
I'm just not feeling it.
====
Beautiful symmetry,
gleaming poetry,
moved to tears
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nope doesn't bother me a bit. (ok, I'd probably prefer he was a baptist. cathloics always apeared a little to into procedure for me)
a religious Dem is nothing new. most of my votes are for democrats (Gordon Smith is a rep. but he does a damn fine job so he gets my vote), and we do family Bible study, 1 or 2 days a week, th kids attend usually twice a week, the wife attends regularly , and when I heal enough to be able to sit in a hard pew for 2 hours I'll be back to regular attendance.
the myth that all dems are Godless heathans is mainly put out by republicans, to scare church orginisations into aligning themselves with the right.
no a religious dem doesn't scare me. what is scary is a aithiest republican, now that would truly be a soulless being. I think most republicans are so callous to there fellow man, and willing to throw away the lives of others in the name of proffit, that thier going through the motions of religion is the only thing that keeps them marginally human. (you can't really cut human services, not give a damn about peope who have no health-care, or send fathers off to die in a made up war, all while truly being a Christian in your heart)
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his wife and her connections/views concern me more than his "religion"
he and she are as left as they come - b4 nov they will be exposed for what they are and it will be a GW landslide
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Silly Rip....
Of course it doesnt, remember Bush is Hitler, so a mere Catholic opressor guy is hardly a concern.. :)
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why do we need all those diffrent religions=protestans,bapthist,catholists(****loads of more, doint *****g remember as usual) etc.... and for some reason allah etc... what is really the diffrence.
They all boil down to the be nice stuff anyway ?
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for those who say the religion background is not an issue, what if he were muslim? think his party would nominate him?
I think it matters. In this case it is just another example of mini-jfk jumping on both sides of an issue and declaring victory - LOL
(http://www.space-debris.com/com_gwynne_munst.jpg)
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Originally posted by Yeager
pro communist anti war protests are what bothers me.
If not for the actions of men like Kerry, there would have been even more names on that wall.
For what?
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
So you failed to see the hipocracy?
Kerry=Pro-abortion
Catholic Church=Anti-abortion
And Bush forgot to "turn the other cheek". :aok
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Originally posted by Eagler
for those who say the religion background is not an issue, what if he were muslim? think his party would nominate him?
No, because he would not be electable.
Same if he was a Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, Shinto or practiced any other non-Christian religion. Ditto for an avowed atheist. The political reality these days is that if you aren’t a declared Christian you won’t be elected president.
Judaism might be an exception, but I’ll believe that when I see it.
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lol
firt of all you should remove that Crap about god from your money boys
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Originally posted by Tarmac
All Catholics agree with everything the church says, just like all Americans agree with everything the government says.
It's true! It's TRUE!
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
I am left-handed and I really don't think it matters one way or the other. :D
I'm left handed, red-haired, Irish, and a Catholic-Atheist. And a die-hard communist, so I guess that's leftist. It doesn't bother me.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
So you failed to see the hipocracy?
Kerry=Pro-abortion
Catholic Church=Anti-abortion
Rip its simple
Kerry voted against abortion rights befor he voted against them. And than he voted for them again when he thaught he was actually voting to gut the CIA and the DOD.
than he voted to bann abortion....but now says he is for it and was wrong before
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Catholic? Some protestant theologians prefer the decription 'Roman Catholic' with the implications for divided loyalties. Bet that's dragged up by someone.
Here's a question: Name the two men who came from Massachusetts, Catholic, served as a Navy Lieutenant on small fast boats in a far eastern war, was wounded, had a reputation as a lady's man, entered politics after a war, became a Senator for Massachusetts and whose initials were JFK.
One is John Forbes Kerry. The other JFK was assassinated in November 1963.
Omigod that's spooky. I suggest Kerry stay away from Dallas if elected President.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
And Bush forgot to "turn the other cheek". :aok
Eye for an eye?
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Rip its simple
Kerry voted against abortion rights befor he voted against them. And than he voted for them again when he thaught he was actually voting to gut the CIA and the DOD.
than he voted to bann abortion....but now says he is for it and was wrong before
:lol :lol :lol :lol
Its all so clear now!:rofl
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A Frisbeetarian like VAQ would never have a chance.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Eye for an eye?
jesus said that?
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
jesus said that?
Dunno, it was a question. Didn't you see the "?"?
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Dunno, it was a question. Didn't you see the "?"?
According to the Bible Jesus said this,
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away."
Matthew 5:38-42
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Religion affilliation should not matter in presidential politics. Unfortunatley what should be and what is are two different things.
I'd rather have a president who's faith doesn't drive his politics but one who's faith helps him deal with matters on a strictly personal basis.
Now, didn't we get into this flip-flop thing before?
ANY legislation that is voted on that contains multiple issues has the potential to force lawmakers to reverse their previous stand.
This happens on both sides of the isle and our lawmakers must make a decision on whether the added pork, amendment or verbage etc. will strengthen or weaken that legislation. Any congresscritter who isn't flexible in this regard is, IMO, not worthy of elected office.
Those of you who think that most or all bills that come before congress only address a single issue need to learn more about how your government works.
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What bothers me is that Bush* sent our soldiers and marines into Iraq on a GD lie.
What Bush* does not know is that their blood is far more precious than oil.
I dont give a d*&# if John Kerry was a baby eating satan worshipper. He ISN'T Bush*, and at this stage of the game that is good enough for me.
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Kerry is a catholic when it suites him....
He is pro abortion/ Catholics against abortion.
Kerry = 2 faced liar.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
jesus said that?
I think that was Hammurabi.
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Kerry is about as much a catholic as he is a war hero.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Kerry is a catholic when it suites him....
He is pro abortion/ Catholics against abortion.
Kerry = 2 faced liar.
or MAYBE he doesn't let the church do his thinking for him.
HMMMMmmmmmmmm
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Originally posted by NUKE
Kerry is about as much a catholic as he is a war hero.
Well since he got the silver star I guess he would be at least a bishop, maybe a cardinal?/
How many silver stars do you have? I dont have any myself.
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IMO kerry gave up his silver/bronze star when he threw them away while protesting the war....wait he flip floped on that too though...he threw somone elses away to protest but proudly hangs them on the wall now.
Anyone....AND I MEAN ANYONE who has ever served in the military KNOWS medals dont mean jack chit. They dont prove you were a "Hero". They dont prove that you were "brave". They don't prove that you have "courage". Maybe the only exception to this rule is the Medal of Honor....most of those are recieved by the recipient's survivors anyway.
Most medals only tell people that you were there.....its the people next to you that makes you a hero....they are the reason you fight....they are the reason you take that hill. NOT because you are couragous...but because you see them doing it and you dont want to let them down. Ask anyone who has served in combat and they will almost allways say the same thing. They were scared and they didnt want to fail.
If you say that anyone who serves their country, weather they be a soldier, teacher, firefighter, policman ect is a hero than yes by that definition john kerry is a hero. But if you take into account any kind of personal fortitude or character....john kerry has neither. He is an opportunist of the worst kind. He served on swift boats in the navy just like his idol JFK for 4 months in combat....recieved a few minor wounds and then asked to be sent home. Once he realized he could run in polotics as an anti war canidate he became on of them too....now he can run on being a war hero....well that's what he wants to be now.
Mr. Kerry, a war hero does not purger himself in front of congress lying about attrocities committed that you NEVER SAW! I just hope you can sleep at night knowing that tapes of your testimony was played at the hanoi hilton to American POWs as psychological tourture.
I could care less if he is a catholic or not...if so he's a bad catholic just like he is a bad senetor.
Sleep well Mr Kerry....Sleep well
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Sleep well Mr Kerry....Sleep well
I'm sure he sleeps well. He is a multimillionare senator that might be president within the year.
If your life was that good would not you sleep well?
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
I'm sure he sleeps well. He is a multimillionare senator that might be president within the year.
If your life was that good would not you sleep well?
If I had done the things that he had done...and live the lies he lives now....NOPE
I have this thing called a concious....somthing most politicians...left and right...dont have
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
IMO kerry gave up his silver/bronze star when he threw them away while protesting the war....wait he flip floped on that too though...he threw somone elses away to protest but proudly hangs them on the wall now.
Anyone....AND I MEAN ANYONE who has ever served in the military KNOWS medals dont mean jack chit. They dont prove you were a "Hero". They dont prove that you were "brave". They don't prove that you have "courage". Maybe the only exception to this rule is the Medal of Honor....most of those are recieved by the recipient's survivors anyway.
Most medals only tell people that you were there.....its the people next to you that makes you a hero....they are the reason you fight....they are the reason you take that hill. NOT because you are couragous...but because you see them doing it and you dont want to let them down. Ask anyone who has served in combat and they will almost allways say the same thing. They were scared and they didnt want to fail.
If you say that anyone who serves their country, weather they be a soldier, teacher, firefighter, policman ect is a hero than yes by that definition john kerry is a hero. But if you take into account any kind of personal fortitude or character....john kerry has neither. He is an opportunist of the worst kind. He served on swift boats in the navy just like his idol JFK for 4 months in combat....recieved a few minor wounds and then asked to be sent home. Once he realized he could run in polotics as an anti war canidate he became on of them too....now he can run on being a war hero....well that's what he wants to be now.
Mr. Kerry, a war hero does not purger himself in front of congress lying about attrocities committed that you NEVER SAW! I just hope you can sleep at night knowing that tapes of your testimony was played at the hanoi hilton to American POWs as psychological tourture.
I could care less if he is a catholic or not...if so he's a bad catholic just like he is a bad senetor.
Sleep well Mr Kerry....Sleep well
I disagree gunslinger. Most medals dont mean crap. THe bronze star even really does not mean anything unless it was earned in combat. But the silver star is different, it is a high honor and you should know that.
Oh and Kerry's tour in swift boats was his second tour, after first serving on a frigate
He volunteered for swift boats, which is and was a dangerous occupation. Note that your hero Bush* was hidint in the TANG where he was trained at taxpayer expense but skiped out on his last year of service so he could work on a political campaign. I dont hear you railing about that? What is up with that?
Kerry's duty in swift boats was cut chort because he was WOUNDED - he also had two purple hearts - another medal that does actually mean something.
He came under fire and he earned the silver star. IMHO he has every right to protest the Golly-geened war. He earned that right by any stretch of the imagination. To say that his later protests negate he actions is disingenious right wing blather. Similar to the tripe that Coulter spewed about Max Cleland.
What kind of country are we where men like Kerry and Cleland are vilified for being dems regardless of exemplary and heroic service under fire, and where men like Bush* is worshipped because he is a repub when he hid from real service in the national guard "Champagne" squadron - and went AWOL from that
the hypocrisy is amazing
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fastest "war hero" in the west - LOL (watch ur BP MT:))
I would think medals were probably a dime a dozen in an attempt to sell the war, if not to joe hippie public then to the soldiers. For ANYONE to get as many medals as mini-jfk did as quickly as did for the actions & "injuries" he encountered dilutes what they would otherwise represent
anyone who can't see they as his entire involvement in the service was just another page in his political resume is blinded by bush hate
but he is the PERFECT representative for the left as he is all that one hundred fold, before you pass the ketchup
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Originally posted by Eagler
fastest "war hero" in the west - LOL (watch ur BP MT:))
I would think medals were probably a dime a dozen in an attempt to sell the war, if not to joe hippie public then to the soldiers. For ANYONE to get as many medals as mini-jfk did as quickly as did for the actions & "injuries" he encountered dilutes what they would otherwise represent
anyone who can't see they as his entire involvement in the service was just another page in his political resume is blinded by bush hate
but he is the PERFECT representative for the left as he is all that one hundred fold, before you pass the ketchup
You know you are talking about a person who probably could have avoided nam like your boy king did.
You want to denounce Kerry because he went to war "for his resume" when Bush* avoided like a little sissy?
man you have a lot of nerve belittling somone's combat performance.
I assume you have some combat experience to give you such great perspective. Tell us, with whom did you serve your country? When did you go in harm's way for America?
I suspect your idea of combat is that which we experience in AH. That isnt combat.
Anyone who would think that Kerrys service, or anyone else's, was pure politics has no idea what those mn went through.
You have belittled the very men who fought for your country. Noone risks more or gives greater sacrifice than these men. And you do so to make your political "point"
Shame on you
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Originally posted by myelo
In 7 states it's illegal for atheists to hold public office as per the States' constitutions.
America doesn't want the "Godless" irreligous. America doesn't like us, and it doesn't let us forget it, we're reminded of it everyday. Unfortunately for people like me there are no secular countries that are free.
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What Strk said and I must say I find criticism of Kerry's war record surprising particularly given the tenor of many on this board in being pro military and knowledgeable about the subject.
Criticising Kerry for going home after four months combat is just asinine. He was wounded twice, minor to be sure. But a minor wound is just inches away from dead. Only the most foolish or brave wouldn't let that effect them.
I've read quite a few Vietnam memoirs. The period interests me and I'm going to Vietnam later this year in part because of this interest.
But the one consistent theme through them all for combat veterans is the sheer desire to get home in one piece. Being wounded and getting home was another. On top of that junior officers tended to suffer the highest casualty rate in that war, indeed any war.
Ask any Vietnam veteran you know 'Would you have gone home if you could after a couple of months of combat?'. You don't need to because you know the answer already.
It is hypocritical to criticise Kerry for that. He fought in the war and when he left the Navy fought against it. Many a vet took that line. It was a bad war.
What is striking is that he retains the respect of the men who served with him.
Frankly I don't criticise Bush for avoiding the war either. Which he did. There can be no doubt about that. Many Americans did, the joined the Guard or found a 'medical' reason to get out of it. Anyone with a bit of intelligence found a tech job that kept them out of the line. It was not like WW2 and interestingly I believe not like the current situation in Iraq or Afghanistan where many believe in what the US is doing.
I think you should save your bile for his politics. That is what the election is about at the end of the day.
As an outsider with a strong interest in Amercan politics. My opinion is that both will face problems with the economy next year after the election. If Kerry wins he'll blame Bush's policies. If Bush wins he might have to raise taxes just like his dad.
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nope - did not serve but can spot a snow job a mile away
for mini-jfk to called a "war-hero" belittles our true ones
edit:
yes, his military record should be kept out but he is the one who put it in - thinking it would serve him in his politics
McCain was a hero. If his service did not get him the WH, mini-jfks most certainly won't
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Originally posted by Suave
America doesn't want the "Godless" irreligous. America doesn't like us, and it doesn't let us forget it, we're reminded of it everyday. Unfortunately for people like me there are no secular countries that are free.
Well, here, in the land of the Pope, religion is not an issue in politic.
Since being or not being religious add and subtract the same amount of votes, our politics have resolved to not use the religion card.
I can even affirm that this is a secular country where an atheist is just another citizen.
All the rest is a mess, tho ;)
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Yeah, if I could live in any country in the world I think I'd pick Switzerland. It's secular, it's beautifull, it's a direct democracy, very low crime, taxes aren't bad, and gun ownership is not only legal, it's encouraged.
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Grown up men are fighting over religion, quite amazing considering that you are the most advanced country in the world. Is there even any "true believers" amongst you?
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Originally posted by Eagler
nope - did not serve but can spot a snow job a mile away
for mini-jfk to called a "war-hero" belittles our true ones
edit:
yes, his military record should be kept out but he is the one who put it in - thinking it would serve him in his politics
McCain was a hero. If his service did not get him the WH, mini-jfks most certainly won't
I didnt think you had worn your country's uniform. What right do you have to judge anyone who did?
BTW I like McCain too, didnt you see what Bush* did to him in the 2000 repub primary? Said he 1. fathered a black child (he adopted), his wife was a drug addict, he is mentally unstable b/c of his POW time - this is freaking UNFORGIVABLE imo. but typical of Bush* - and now you want to be the same way. Why dont you sit down and think about it a little?
Oh, and McCain has come to Kerry's defense on this issue, did you miss that too?
also - JFK also served in the USN as you know. Wore the uniform of our country in combat. That counts for something imo but to you its just a stepping stone in their political career?? it is so obvious you have no idea what you are spewing about
mini-JFK indeed. I will take a combat veteran any day over some chicken hawk who wants war but wants others to do the fighting a la Bush*, Cheney, Limbaugh, Buchanan etc. lol
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Originally posted by strk
I didnt think you had worn your country's uniform. What right do you have to judge anyone who did?
so I can't judge anyone or anything I haven't been myself?
were you POTUS? how can you judge bush then? LOL
I can spot a quack and mini-jfk is a big liberal duck, as big a duck and liberal as they come
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Originally posted by Eagler
so I can't judge anyone or anything I haven't been myself?
were you POTUS? how can you judge bush then? LOL
I can spot a quack and mini-jfk is a big liberal duck, as big a duck and liberal as they come
you missed the point (I am not suprised at this) - or you are dishonestly trying to say I said something I didnt.
You attacked his military service for your own political ends. I say you are out of line for doing so. And you are.
military service and combat is not what you are experiencing behind your computer with a joystick in your hand,
I do not care that you think he is a liberal or that you think liberals are evil. Maybe you should work 7 days a week to avoid that evil weekend that liberals and unions brought you.
Your head is fully inserted my friend. If/when you finally pull it out you might want to get a handi-wipe so you can open your eyes
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Originally posted by Eagler
fastest "war hero" in the west - LOL (watch ur BP MT:))
I would think medals were probably a dime a dozen in an attempt to sell the war, if not to joe hippie public then to the soldiers. For ANYONE to get as many medals as mini-jfk did as quickly as did for the actions & "injuries" he encountered dilutes what they would otherwise represent
anyone who can't see they as his entire involvement in the service was just another page in his political resume is blinded by bush hate
but he is the PERFECT representative for the left as he is all that one hundred fold, before you pass the ketchup
You may not be blind Eagler, but it would seem that you did do "it" until you needed really strong glasses.
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Actually MT when a blind speak of blindess I thing he's just sharing his own experience.
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Originally posted by Suave
Yeah, if I could live in any country in the world I think I'd pick Switzerland. It's secular, it's beautifull, it's a direct democracy, very low crime, taxes aren't bad, and gun ownership is not only legal, it's encouraged.
What's stopping ya?
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Great sig line AK. Never truer.
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wow - you do live in a different world don't you strk
MT I needed glasses before I figured out what "it" was - legally blind sir :)
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Originally posted by AKIron
What's stopping ya?
In order of importance:
I don't have a residence permit.
I have no employment prospects there, (I don't think my degree is even any good there).
Language, although I do plan on learning italian, I speak none of the official languages.
If anybody has any information that I may find helpfull I'd be gratefull.
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Originally posted by strk
I didnt think you had worn your country's uniform. What right do you have to judge anyone who did?
BTW I like McCain too, didnt you see what Bush* did to him in the 2000 repub primary? Said he 1. fathered a black child (he adopted), his wife was a drug addict, he is mentally unstable b/c of his POW time - this is freaking UNFORGIVABLE imo. but typical of Bush* - and now you want to be the same way. Why dont you sit down and think about it a little?
Oh, and McCain has come to Kerry's defense on this issue, did you miss that too?
also - JFK also served in the USN as you know. Wore the uniform of our country in combat. That counts for something imo but to you its just a stepping stone in their political career?? it is so obvious you have no idea what you are spewing about
mini-JFK indeed. I will take a combat veteran any day over some chicken hawk who wants war but wants others to do the fighting a la Bush*, Cheney, Limbaugh, Buchanan etc. lol
<---HAS served in the military...STILL serves in the military....HAS known ALOT of medal recipients that got medals for ABSOLUTLY NOTHING.
ASK and NCO or OFFICER who serves now or has served...Its ALL how you write the decoration weather or not you get it. I've known guys that have done things truely heroic (saved 3 kids from a burning station wagon) All they got were Navy Acheivment medals....on the flip side I know guys that got medals for operations that took place while they were on LEAVE!
My whole point is character....kerry has none. His service is shaky at best....but while I didnt mention BUSH you didnt even touch kerry's testimony before congress.
Bush is the "fortunate son" I totally admit that. I dont bash him for serving in the TANG just like I dont bash kerry for serving in the Navy. I dont like kerry cause he is running as a "war hero" and a "WAR Hero" he is not!
He has every right to protest the war just like any other american. When he sides with America's enemy and blatently LIES before congress...AND his testimony is used to degrade morale among american POWs...THATS WHEN I DRAW THE LINE WITH HIM.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
<---HAS served in the military...STILL serves in the military....HAS known ALOT of medal recipients that got medals for ABSOLUTLY NOTHING.
ASK and NCO or OFFICER who serves now or has served...Its ALL how you write the decoration weather or not you get it. I've known guys that have done things truely heroic (saved 3 kids from a burning station wagon) All they got were Navy Acheivment medals....on the flip side I know guys that got medals for operations that took place while they were on LEAVE!
My whole point is character....kerry has none. His service is shaky at best....but while I didnt mention BUSH you didnt even touch kerry's testimony before congress.
Bush is the "fortunate son" I totally admit that. I dont bash him for serving in the TANG just like I dont bash kerry for serving in the Navy. I dont like kerry cause he is running as a "war hero" and a "WAR Hero" he is not!
He has every right to protest the war just like any other american. When he sides with America's enemy and blatently LIES before congress...AND his testimony is used to degrade morale among american POWs...THATS WHEN I DRAW THE LINE WITH HIM.
I agree about alot of medals GS, but you know as well as I that they don't hand out Silver Stars for nothing. Bronze stars, yeah, but the Silver Star like the CMH are damn hard to come by
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but didnt mini-jfk get his star after chasing a vc who was shot to ****e by the 50's on the gunboat down, kill him? and get a rocket launcher?
how old was the vc you think? hard to tell when they are 4ft tall full grown eh? why would you endanger the boat and her crew to do such a thing if not for the glory and being pretty sure as hell there wasn't any immediate danger... snow job
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The following was sent to a Marine chat net by a retired Marine Master Sergeant who was in S-2, 3rd Bn, 1st Marines, Korea in 1954. It calls into serious question John Kerry's military actions in Vietnam. We present it to give our readers another perspective to the media's one-sided "war hero" adulation, and to open his actions to the light of public discourse. -- The Editors.
I was in the Delta shortly after John Kerry left. I know that area well. I know the operations he was involved in well. I know the tactics and the doctrine used, and I know the equipment. Although I was attached to CTF-116 (PBRs) I spent a fair amount of time with CTF-115 (swift boats), Kerry's command.
Here are my problems and suspicions:
(1) Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts. I never heard of anybody with any outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves, Riverines and the River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware that fast, and for such pedestrian actions. The Swifts did a commendable job, but that duty wasn't the worst you could draw. They operated only along the coast and in the major rivers (Bassac and Mekong). The rough stuff in the hot areas was mainly handled by the smaller, faster PBRs.
(2) He collected three Purple Hearts but has no limp. All his injuries were so minor that he lost no time from duty. Amazing luck. Or he was putting himself in for medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch? Combat on, the boats were almost always at close range. You didn't have minor wounds, at least not often. Not three times in a row. Then he used the three Purple Hearts to request a trip home eight months before the end of his tour. Fishy.
(3) The details of the event for which he was given the Silver Star make no sense at all. Supposedly, a B-40 was fired at the boat and missed. Charlie jumps up with the launcher in his hand, the bow gunner knocks him down with the twin .50, Kerry beaches the boat, jumps off, shoots Charlie, and retreives the launcher. If true, he did everything wrong.
(a) Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put your stern to the action and go balls to the wall. A B-40 has the ballistic integrity of a frisbie after about 25 yards, so you put 50 yards or so between you and the beach and begin raking it with your .50's.
(b) Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket launcher was empty. There was no reason to go after him (except if you knew he was no danger to you just flopping around in the dust during his last few seconds on earth, and you wanted some derring-do in your after-action report). And we didn't shoot wounded people. We had rules against that, too.
(c) Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot area. EVER! The reason was simple: If you had somebody on the beach, your boat was defenseless. It coudn't run and it couldn' t return fire. It was stupid and it put his crew in danger. He should have been relieved and reprimanded. I never heard of any boat crewman ever leaving a boat during or after a firefight.
Something is fishy.
Here we have a JFK wannabe (the guy Halsey wanted to court martial for carelessly losing his boat and getting a couple people killed by running across the bow of a Japanese destroyer) who is hardly in Vietnam long enough to get good tan, collects medals faster than Audie Murphy in a job where lots of medals weren't common, gets sent home eight months early and requests separation from active duty a few months after that so he can run for Congress. In that election, he finds out war heroes don't sell well in Massachsetts in 1970, so he reinvents himself as Jane Fonda, throws his ribbons in the dirt with the cameras running to jump start his political career, gets Stillborn Pell to invite him to address Congress and has Bobby Kennedy's speechwriter to do the heavy lifting. A few years later he winds up in the Senate himself, where he votes against every major defense bill and says the CIA is irrelevant after the Berlin Wall came down. He votes against the Gulf War (a big political mistake since that turned out well), then decides not to make the same mistake twice so votes for invading Iraq -- but that didn't fare as well with the Democrats, so he now says he really didn't mean for Bush to go to war when he voted to allow him to go to war.
I'm real glad you or I never had this guy covering out flanks in Vietnam. I sure don't want him as Commander-in-Chief. I hope that somebody from CTF-115 shows up with some facts challenging Kerry's Vietnam record. I know in my gut it's wildy inflated.
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opinions not facts.
Dont you know the difference?
That Marine, if he was actually being truthful, didnt see dick. He is assuming and speculating.
Maybe he has other motives. Maybe those motives are similar to your own.
Frankly it disgust me that you dismiss someone's military action out of hand when you werent there and have never served yourself, much less in combat.
Why dont you visit Arlington Cemetary sometime, see how many of those people you think were in the military to help their political resume, how many of them were not fighting for their country but being oportunistic. You make me sick
But then there is your boy king who shirked his duty. I guess Bush* figured he would rather stay in the states chasing ***** and snorting coke. Cant say as I blame him for that, but he aint no freakin hero. Except to you and the other wingnuts
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SNOPED (http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp)
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
SNOPED (http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp)
HAHAHAHAHAHA
THat is too funny. What were you saying about credibility Eagler?? what was that again??
ooohhh. I see.
Tell your Marine chat buddy I said hi!!
on edit: - upon review of Eagler's post I should have noticed that he claimed the Marine was a Master Sergeant, which is an army rank not Marine. Marines have Master Technical Sergeant and Master Gunnery Sergeant.
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take out the "marines" account ...
did it not happen as described in the article?
aren't you the least bit suspicious on how he got that many medals in such a short period of time? did everyone in nam come home with as many for tours much longer than mini's?
wonder why...
"Kerry declined a request from the Globe to sign a waiver authorizing the release of military documents that are covered under the Privacy Act and that might shed more light on the extent of the treatment Kerry needed as a result of the wounds. "
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Originally posted by Eagler
take out the "marines" account ...
did it not happen as described in the article?
aren't you the least bit suspicious on how he got that many medals in such a short period of time? did everyone in nam come home with as many for tours much longer than mini's?
wonder why...
"Kerry declined a request from the Globe to sign a waiver authorizing the release of military documents that are covered under the Privacy Act and that might shed more light on the extent of the treatment Kerry needed as a result of the wounds. "
1. I dont know I wasnt there - were you? Kerrys crew seems to back him up. He saved at least one man - a green beret I think?
2. It was a war genius, He was doing dangerous duty in the Mekong delta - the rivers of Nam. Brown water navy. Probably the most dangerous duty short of a carrier deck or a seal team
3. That was his SECOND tour genius. He already served on a Frigate as a naval officer.
Dont you think it is strange that Bush* got into that unit with the huge waiting list, barely qualified to be a pilot, and then didnt serve out his easy time in the TANG?? How can you attack Kerry's record when you support Bush*??
Oh and btw your credibility = 0 after that BS post.
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Originally posted by Eagler
take out the "marines" account ...
did it not happen as described in the article?
The "Marine's Account" was your whole post! OK, I'll disregard it.
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Originally posted by strk
on edit: - upon review of Eagler's post I should have noticed that he claimed the Marine was a Master Sergeant, which is an army rank not Marine. Marines have Master Technical Sergeant and Master Gunnery Sergeant.
US Marine Corps Enlisted Rank Structure:
E1 Private
E2 Private First Class
E3 Lance Corporal
E4 Corporal
E5 Sergeant
E6 Staff Sergeant
E7 Gunnery Sergeant
E8 Master Sergeant...or First Sergeant
E9 Master Gunery Sergean...or Sergeant Major
Now that we have that out of the way Snopes quotes this from his orrigninal citation
Indeed, the Silver Star citation makes clear that Kerry's performance on that day was both extraordinary and risky. "With utter disregard for his own safety and the enemy rockets," the citation says, Kerry "again ordered a charge on the enemy, beached his boat only 10 feet from the Viet Cong rocket position and personally led a landing party ashore in pursuit of the enemy . . . The extraordinary daring and personal courage of Lt. Kerry in attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire were responsible for the highly successful mission."
AGAIN for those who didnt hear the first time.....ITS ALL IN WHO WRITES THE CITATION.
Simply put john kerry beached his boat....abandond ship...shot a wounded VC
His bronze star he got from rescuing a man over board after a ship hit a mine
Three scratches one MAJOR firefight...and a trip home.
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Originally posted by strk
Oh and btw your credibility = 0 after that BS post.
good - then feel free NOT to response to anything else I have to say in the future LOL
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Originally posted by Eagler
good - then feel free NOT to response to anything else I have to say in the future LOL
I will if you will. I didnt pick a fight with you. You picked it then stepped in the **** with both feet.
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US Marine Corps Enlisted Rank Structure:
you are right, I was wrong. Master Sergeant/E8 or First Sergeant.
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Eagler I think you should humbly back out from this thread, you are begining to look like the right wing equivalent of weazel.
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barely qualified to be a pilot, and then didnt serve out his easy time in the TANG??
lmfao...ya.prove it,,,Funny,,,the dem party isnt pushing this "officially" ehh??
Dean is a loser..he lost his asreeeeeeeeee
Your Homboy said..."bush knew about 9-11 befor it happend--well thats just a internet theory"...LMFAO!!!!! YA ..he sounds like a profesional...LOLOLOLOL
and btw...GOD BLESS AMERICA
KErry Like Mcain makes me sick,,,,,,,
ya ya ..thnx for going to war..but now you are in a different time.. Reminds me of a day flying...
I thought all pilots were in a 'special" communtiy..wrong..some guy almost HO me on final..he yelled at my instructor..but then ran away ...cause he had no radio in his plane and was landing coming in on the down wind ...so..I learned..you can be in an "elete" assoc..but still have A#1 aholes/cuddlinghunkes in there..
McCain..did great service,,but his Sponsorship of McCAin -Feingold act are a direct assualt on freedom of speech....FUQ them..they are crap...
So we cant run commercials 60 days out from election..But you got this LYING crap fromm CNN-cBS-aBS and nBS playing all the way up to election...classic double standards...I guess thats why Fox news kiks the sheite out of them...
BTW CNN iS A LYING-STEAMING HUNK OF TED TURNER(crap)
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Could somebody please translate?
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Originally posted by Connection
Could somebody please translate?
The pharmacy couldn't fill his prescription
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Originally posted by Connection
Eagler I think you should humbly back out from this thread, you are begining to look like the right wing equivalent of weazel.
that bad huh?
but what does that make strk :)