Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sandman on March 29, 2004, 11:05:50 AM
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Ridiculous...
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20040326-9999-news_7m26wrong.html
March 26, 2004
CARLSBAD – Dina Dagy admits her family could do better when it comes to conserving energy.
Her children don't always shut off the computers when they're done. The family of five leaves its outside lights on so that their runaway boxer might find its way home. And it's not uncommon for them to do two or three loads of laundry each day.
But it never occurred to Beryl and Dina Dagy that their high electric bills – which run from $200 to $300 a month – would cause them problems with the law.
The Dagys' home was one of 25 raided Friday as part of a six-month investigation into a countywide ring that was growing marijuana inside rental homes. Homes were targeted largely based on unusually high utility bills, which often result from the 24-hour use of grow lights, according to court records.
No pot was found in the Dagys' home.
Dina Dagy was volunteering in her son's second-grade classroom when police arrived at her Ivy Street home.
"Their investigation was just so flawed," Dina Dagy said yesterday as she sat in the two-story home the family bought a year ago.
The Dagys want a written apology from the Carlsbad Police Department, which conducted the search, and have sent letters to city, county and state officials in hopes that other families won't go through the same ordeal.
Carlsbad police Lt. Bill Rowland said he planned to speak with the Dagys, and his investigators apologized to the Dagys the day of the search, but he did not commit to a written apology.
That's because the Dagys' high electricity bill was not the sole reason for the search, Rowland said. He noted a drug-sniffing dog showed interest in the home when it was taken there before Friday's search. A search warrant affidavit was reviewed by the District Attorney's Office and a judge signed the warrant.
Misha Piastro, spokesman for the federal Drug Enforcement Administration in San Diego, said that although the DEA headed the investigation that led to 24 county arrests and the seizure of thousands of high-grade pot plants, the Carlsbad search was more of an offshoot of the larger investigation.
Before the raid, investigators reached Beryl Dagy on his cellular phone to ask if someone would let them inside to avoid knocking down the door, Rowland said. He then called his wife at the school.
Dina Dagy arrived to find police surrounding the home. Neighbors watched as she stood outside and detectives combed through the house.
They found plenty of toys, but no pot.
So how did police zero in on the home?
In his sworn affidavit, Carlsbad Detective Mark Reyes states an unidentified, confidential source told a county Narcotics Task Force agent that someone might be growing pot in the house.
Investigators subpoenaed utility records, which showed the Dagys used 1,584 kilowatts of electricity in February, and 1,616 kilowatts in January, the affidavit states. That's three to four times the amount used in neighboring homes during the same period, according to the affidavit.
Also, surveillance of the home showed that the Dagys placed their trash cans on the curb outside their home the morning of the Thursday pickups.
Why is that a big deal? Some narcotics offenders wait until the last possible moment to put their trash on the curb because they know that investigators retrieve evidence from trash, the affidavit says.
Dina Dagy admits that their San Diego Gas & Electric bills are high, but "I didn't realize it would target us as marijuana growers."
Rowland said detectives maintain there was probable cause to search the home.
Dina Dagy isn't convinced.
"They were wrong and I want them to say they were wrong," she said.
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The war on drugs is such a joke. Educating people better about them is far more effective.
Plus makeing pot legal( it has less harmfull effects then a 6 pack of beer) would save the tax payers alot of money.
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Well that's nothing, they didn't kill anyone.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
The war on drugs is such a joke. Educating people better about them is far more effective.
Plus makeing pot legal( it has less harmfull effects then a 6 pack of beer) would save the tax payers alot of money.
Please list the benifits of legalizing marijuana that outweigh the negatives.
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the money spent on the 'war on drugs' could be better spent
trying to stop the 'marijuana menace' is a joke.
the pot-heads take care of themselves...
hell they have no motivation, motor skills, money, etc...
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war on drugs? most of our politicians can't even drive a car on drugs, now they want to fight a war.
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they fit the profile:
"That's three to four times the amount used in neighboring homes during the same period, according to the affidavit."
so they goofed one up, how many successful raids were there? they will be compensated by legal action before it is all over
I bet their electric bill was lower the next month ...
druggies unite! :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Please list the benifits of legalizing marijuana that outweigh the negatives.
Sure there are negatives about MJ but the legalization won't magnify them. And besides you won't be getting rid of the stuff with your current methods. So there isn't any negatives to put in the scale.
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Drugs are for wacos. Only wacos do drugs. Each year, thousands of wacos do drugs.
:D
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Our tax dollars at work. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Eagler
druggies unite! :rolleyes:
Look out, here comes Aneagler Bryant with another ad hominem onslaught.
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"In his sworn affidavit, Carlsbad Detective Mark Reyes states an unidentified, confidential source told a county Narcotics Task Force agent that someone might be growing pot in the house."
A tipster said they might be growing pot. They then pulled the electric bills and found they used 4 times as much electricity as their neighbors. A drug dog alerted to the house.
It's called probable cause, get over it. At least they had the decency to call the owner to try and get in the house before they tried to kick the door in.
Most large law enforcement agencies have their own trash trucks they use to pick up the trash of suspected drug houses to avoid suspicion. I am surprised San Diego didn't just pick up their trash.
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LOL, high rollas.
:D
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amazin how the dopers defend their dope in these threads - LOL
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so they goofed one up, how many successful raids were there?
none, the 'war on drugs' are in no way a sucess. the only reason that pot is illegal (when compared to alcohol, and tobacco), and largely unavailable as medication (in most states, even though it is often the best medication available), is that it can be manufactered by the people who consume it. with such a small investment of time and money, it gets the hand of big-bussines out of your pocket a bit. completely unaceptable.
for example how much $$ woud the pharmicuticle companies loose if I could grown my own pot for my medication, instead of paying for the for the morphine and muscle relaxers? (techically I can grow it here in Oregon. but even if prescribed by a physician, you won't pass a piss test when ou return to work. the lawmakers in this country would rather have me on morphine, than a more effective, safer, less adictive drug, that would lower the cost of health-care)
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
none, the 'war on drugs' are in no way a sucess. the only reason that pot is illegal (when compared to alcohol, and tobacco), and largely unavailable as medication (in most states, even though it is often the best medication available), is that it can be manufactered by the people who consume it. with such a small investment of time and money, it gets the hand of big-bussines out of your pocket a bit. completely unaceptable.
for example how much $$ woud the pharmicuticle companies loose if I could grown my own pot for my medication, instead of paying for the for the morphine and muscle relaxers? (techically I can grow it here in Oregon. but even if prescribed by a physician, you won't pass a piss test when ou return to work. the lawmakers in this country would rather have me on morphine, than a more effective, safer, less adictive drug, that would lower the cost of health-care)
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
"In his sworn affidavit, Carlsbad Detective Mark Reyes states an unidentified, confidential source told a county Narcotics Task Force agent that someone might be growing pot in the house."
A tipster said they might be growing pot. They then pulled the electric bills and found they used 4 times as much electricity as their neighbors. A drug dog alerted to the house.
It's called probable cause, get over it. At least they had the decency to call the owner to try and get in the house before they tried to kick the door in.
Most large law enforcement agencies have their own trash trucks they use to pick up the trash of suspected drug houses to avoid suspicion. I am surprised San Diego didn't just pick up their trash.
Probable cause, my ass.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Probable cause, my ass.
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Is that an attempt at humour?
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doper
nope, at this point in my life I don't take anything that isn't prescribed (and pass an average of 10-15 UA's a year to prove it. hell, I still have a few shots left in the 5th I bought before Thanksgiving).
I'd like to get my meds swithced but my Dr (while agreeing it would probably be more effective for me, and deffinately safer) won't proscribe becuase his parteners have a policy against it(see they are still afraid of what the feds may do), and the law doesn't adress medical pot apearing in a piss test when I return to work.
but I see where you're coming from. it's the only way to really hold any ground on your fluffied up position. just sling a lable and try like hell to dodge the point.
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I DONT smoke dope or do any other drugs (cept for advil and such) but I'm all for legalizing pot.
Think about it. coorporations could sell it so much cheaper than any street dealer could think of so it would put alot of them out of business. Put an age limit on it like 18 or 21 and TAX THE HELL OUT IF IT just like tobacco and alcohol.
Just my opinion that keeping it illegal does more harm than good.
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I think your all a bunch of dopers. :D
<-- clean as a whistle. ;)
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Probable cause, my ass.
If a drug dog alerted to your ass, yes it would be. :D
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
If a drug dog alerted to your ass, yes it would be. :D
I have to agree with mickey here. It sounds like the police did everything correct when it comes to procedures....they just came up short. Sorry to the citizens for the inconvienience and leave it at that. Its not like they bashed the door in and came in guns blazing scaring the hell out of the kids than trashed the place. Mistakes happen no one is perfect not even the police.
I've had a situation befor were a drug dog went nuts on my car once. I explained to the officer that it was a rental and they were more than welcome to tear it apart and do what they have to do. They didnt find anything but the cop say's its not uncomon for the dogs to sniff out left over resin....if it wasnt a rental I might have some explaining to do.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Ridiculous...
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20040326-9999-news_7m26wrong.html
In his sworn affidavit, Carlsbad Detective Mark Reyes states an unidentified, confidential source told a county Narcotics Task Force agent that someone might be growing pot in the house.
"Abnah! Abnah! There's something funny going on over at the Stevens' house!"
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
If a drug dog alerted to your ass, yes it would be. :D
Using a lot of electricity and having a dog alert on you is not the same thing. It's not in the same ballpark. It's not even the same ****in sport. Those cops need to get a big nasty grip and go fight some real crime (like the kind that has victims) instead of wasting resources on crap like this.
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here they keep track of peek electrical useage on suspected houses. when your peaks drop from 16 hours to 8 hours they raid the house. they figure to get the max haul that way and look better in the papers.
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Originally posted by Eagler
amazin how the dopers defend their dope in these threads - LOL
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Originally posted by bong
I think your all a bunch of dopers. :D
<-- clean as a whistle. ;)
As am I. Have to be... random urinalysis and all that.
Important lessons here to keep the cops away... conserve your electricity and put the garbage out the night before. :rolleyes:
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I don't give a **** if a Pot head shoves his finger up his butt and spins for days.
The moment he steps outside into the real world, his actions affect those around him. If his judgement is impaired, he will do stupid stuff. This is why drugs should be illegal.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I don't give a **** if a Pot head shoves his finger up his butt and spins for days.
The moment he steps outside into the real world, his actions affect those around him. If his judgement is impaired, he will do stupid stuff. This is why drugs should be illegal.
Do you include alcohol, nicotine, and caffeine?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I don't give a **** if a Pot head shoves his finger up his butt and spins for days.
The moment he steps outside into the real world, his actions affect those around him. If his judgement is impaired, he will do stupid stuff. This is why drugs should be illegal.
Everything brought up here is also true in the case of alcohol, why would applying the same laws, restructions and regulations to soft drugs not suffice to cover the aforementioned?
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Er...cuz Dupont never got a patent for assohole, the gateway drug to everything.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Using a lot of electricity and having a dog alert on you is not the same thing.
Correct, but both things happened in this case.
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I guess this may be the ONE reason I side with the lefties on this....I think the war on drugs is alot of money waisted.
"We dont need less drugs but more drugs...but just to the right people" Denis leary, No cure for cancer
I think that's natural selection at its best at least till some crack head breaks into my house to steal somthing so he can get his fix....but then again we still have the right to bear arms (much to the librals dismay) so taking him out would still be good
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Too bad the drug-producing countries don't also have large reserves of oil, otherwise this "war on drugs" would be over in a couple weeks. As it is, our government would rather continue to assail our individual freedoms and waste billions in non-productive actions.
Illegal drugs are as much a threat to our country as any terrorist organization when the loss of lives, productivity, and cost of rehabilitation/incarceration are considered.
Of course, this is all imho and not backed up by any cool links to various studies and graphs, etc.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I don't give a **** if a Pot head shoves his finger up his butt and spins for days.
The moment he steps outside into the real world, his actions affect those around him. If his judgement is impaired, he will do stupid stuff. This is why drugs should be illegal.
Do you have any idea what you just said? SO i guess your all for reinstateing prohibition as well?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
If his judgement is impaired, he will do stupid stuff. This is why drugs should be illegal.
Hear, hear! Lock up everybody who leaves their house and does something stupid that impacts me. :rolleyes:
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The reason Drug dealers, and king pins etc. have so much money is because the drugs they make and sell are ILLEGAL. It cost money to get them in, and so they sell them at such high price, which gives them that much more money to influence whom they need to get their drugs in. We give them the power. Instead of eliminating the barriers and educating your children on drugs. We allow the government to put a big label on drugs saying "You're an idiot and don't know whats good for you, So you can't have this. Its Illegal!" Even though everyone knows someone who does some form of drug, its prevelant, and its here even if you'd like to believe it or not. I've had the chance to do all sorts of drugs, but I made a choice not to take them.
Take the money used for the "war on drugs" and put it into clinics that offer help medical or therapy to those who need it. Help them make a WILLING choice to not take drugs.
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Illegal drugs are as much a threat to our country as any terrorist organization when the loss of lives, productivity, and cost of rehabilitation/incarceration are considered.
in the case of marijuana all of those problems are caused by the fact that they are legal, and the gov'ts attempts to controle peoples behaviour, not the drugs themselves.
as for the other drugs. left to themselves it's a self-solving problem. there are only really 2 types of people who do drugs.
the ocasional recreational drug user,(the biggest percentage of users btw) who keeps himself under control, doesn't go to work high or miss work. much like your casual drinker who has a few beers on friday night, but sobers up to fulfill his responsabilities, this guy is no harm to anyone. sober society didn't even really know this guy existed before the piss-test. we shouldn't be interfering in this guys life, we have more important issues to deal with.
the other type is your classic adict- if employed(and usually not for long) the guy misses work constantly. will sell everything he owns and steal everything you own for his next fix. we spend billions aresting, sobering, taking to court, incarcerating, and rehabilitating these people. the re-hab/court/legal system is one of the few growth indutries around, and it doesn't work. even the experts in the system tell you the average person who goes through rehab will use again. mostly because they didn't choose to go and change their life but where forced in by the legal system.
the obvious solution for this group is legalisation. if legal we could aply a 100% tax on your harder drugs (herroin, meth, coke, crack) and still the price would be about 1/20th of what it is now. that means the junky living under the bridge by your house will only have to steal 1 car stereo for every 20 he takes now, to maintain his habit.
of course thats not likely how it will work. more likely he will still steal just about as much as he does now and just increase his habit. with nobody to force him to stop, or throw him in jail while he cleans up. his usage rate should climb rather quickly until he OD's. a good solid OD with unlimitted suply has about 0% repeat offenders. you can have a decent funeral for about the price of 3 days worth of rehab and you'll never have to bury that guy again(how many times will you have to re-rehab him?).
now what to do with the increased revinue from the 100% tax on drugs? you could use that for HONEST drug education in schools, and free rehab for anyone who volontarily puts themselves in (it seems reasonable to me to make the drugs pay for cleaning up the problem).
the other proffits (the money saved from ending this losing fight of the drug war) would go to the rest of us. maybe even shore up the funding to social security or a national healthplan.
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Is it really worthwile to raid indoor growers? I'm sure all the major grow ops happen outside over there. Is it better that the potheads get their dope from organized crime than grow it themselves?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
The moment he steps outside into the real world, his actions affect those around him. If his judgement is impaired, he will do stupid stuff. This is why drugs should be illegal.
You are making an argument for prohibition. How many people drive home every weekend from a nightclub DUI? Shoot, some clubs even have valet parking.
I would like to know who told the police that they were growing pot in there, doesn't the family have a legal case against that person? They put the trash out just before the trash truck came? Ahh, isn't that what everyone does? Nothing like having animals tear your trash apart in front of your house. A police dog was alerted to the house? Did the dog get a phone call? I mean, how close was the dog to the house, and does alerted mean, looked at?
Legalize pot? C'mon, that's kinda crazy, imo. Why give kids another bad habit to form? Look, if you want to grow a plant in your home and smoke it, that's your business. But why legalize? I do not think it is a good idea. I realize that with all the drugs that are out there, that pot is probably the least harmful, but you cannot convince me legalizing is the way to go. I was a teenager in the "70's", and smoking pot was the cool thing to do, everyone did it and if you didn't you were not cool. Say no to drugs was never heard, I don't want to see times change again and have pot smoking be the cool thing to do again.
The war on drugs
Along came the 80's and "say no to drugs" became the mainstream(thank god). But the war on drugs did not go quite the way they planned. The price of pot skyrocketed while the price of cocaine dropped like a lead balloon. The cheap bag of pot in the 70's was replaced by the cheap rock of crack in the 80's. Along came the 90's and extasy was added to the many drugs available. Now oxycontin is being robbed from pharmacies. Yet we target a house because they have a high electric bill and might be growing pot in THEIR HOME.
Maybe it isn't the war on drugs itself, maybe it's just where it's being waged. In downtown Boston there is a nightclub that sells 5 dollar bottles of water. Why water? Because extasy and oxycontin are the rage and they don't drink alcohol with extasy(it diminishes the high), so they drink water all night, and pay for it(you are not allowed to bring in your own water). Now everyone in the place is doing and passing drugs(some passing out in their seats), and the club is catering to it, yet this place of business is not targeted. Yet a suburban house is targeted for pot? Seems to me they are barking up the wrong tree.
Through all my years i've seen or read about overdoses of crack, angel dust(3 people on a school bus going to my highschool), cocaine, heroin, oxycontin and others, but I have never heard of a pot overdose. And while I don't believe in legalizing pot, I do not believe it should be priority one.
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So, big electricity bill is probable cause? Or is it the dog that shows interest in your house? Or both of them combined? What kind of paper trace is left behind from dogs response and anonymous call? None. And i bet both of these are just BS excuses told to press how they did not solely act upon the big bellybutton electricity bill, which i think they did. Especially the anonymous call, funny how those callers just happen when police conduct this kind of big bust events.
War on drugs is just as clever as war on alcohol was and would be.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I don't give a **** if a Pot head shoves his finger up his butt and spins for days.
The moment he steps outside into the real world, his actions affect those around him. If his judgement is impaired, he will do stupid stuff. This is why drugs should be illegal.
I agree, lets make booze illegle again, that will cut down the dui rate.
and those painkillers too. why just look at rush, he got his dope from the drugstore just like all upstanding people. lets put a stop to that too.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
SO i guess your all for reinstateing prohibition as well?
I would have no problem with that.
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Originally posted by Samiam
Hear, hear! Lock up everybody who leaves their house and does something stupid that impacts me. :rolleyes:
I would have no problem with that.
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Originally posted by gofaster
I would have no problem with that.
So you would be happy if alcohol probhibition would be reinstated? Do you feel that the previous experience was positive in any way, or you just don't care what happens around you?
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Originally posted by mora
So you would be happy if alcohol probhibition would be reinstated? Do you feel that the previous experience was positive in any way, or you just don't care what happens around you?
My dad was an alcoholic.
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Originally posted by gofaster
My dad was an alcoholic.
And he wouldn't have been if alcohol was illegal?
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
And he wouldn't have been if alcohol was illegal?
No, because he wouldn't have had access to it at the Florida Bar Association functions.
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Originally posted by gofaster
No, because he wouldn't have had access to it at the Florida Bar Association functions.
...and you believe he would have looked no further?
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The rest of us should have our freedom curtailed because his dad can't handle his liquor?
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FWIW a 12 ft. by 12 ft. bedroom, equipped with three 400 watt Quartz Halide lights, will produce 5 lbs. of manicured bud every three months.
Excessive electrical usage has already been accepted by most Court juristictions as grounds for probable cause for issuance of a search warrant.
What wasn't stated was how many homes which fit the same profile were searched and pot WAS discovered- in my experience I could guarantee it's more unusual to NOT find pot in a home fitting this profile than it is to actually find pot. In fact I'll bet it's somewhat newsworthy when a home fitting this profile is searched and (gasp) no dope is found.
BTW, if you want to smoke or grow dope without fear of criminal prosecution then move to Mendocino County, California, get a Dr.'s prescription, visit the local Pot Shop and smoke yourself comatose.
Then I'll show you areas where the growers have poisoned the wildlife, clearcut hillside brush (which causes erosion in the winter), dammed up salmon spawning streams resulting in the loss of generations of migrating salmon, used chemical fertilizers with impunity, hung fishhooks on trails to deter rip-offs, stopped cars at gunpoint and brutalized the occupants, killed each other over their dope, etc., etc., etc.-
Anybody who wants, you have an open invitation to visit this summer, and I'll show you exactly what the pot culture has created up here. Then decide if this is a "victimless crime" or not.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
...and you believe he would have looked no further?
You assume an addict knows he's an addict and will seek out his addiction before he's had a chance to try it in the first place.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
The rest of us should have our freedom curtailed because his dad can't handle his liquor?
If we had Prohibition, it wouldn't bother me a bit.
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This is all BS.....
An unidintified source said there was drugs there and a drug doggie said there was drugs there..... RIGHT RIGHT!
Did they find drugs??? No....
very convenient that the 2 sources can't talk or identified.
I'm a supporter of the cops but I think they are full of crap on this one. They messed up and didn't have probable cause.
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Originally posted by Airhead
Then I'll show you areas where the growers have poisoned the wildlife, clearcut hillside brush (which causes erosion in the winter), dammed up salmon spawning streams resulting in the loss of generations of migrating salmon, used chemical fertilizers with impunity, hung fishhooks on trails to deter rip-offs, stopped cars at gunpoint and brutalized the occupants, killed each other over their dope, etc., etc., etc.-
Legalization would remove this problem.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Legalization would remove this problem.
It is De Facto legalized and the problems associated with cultivation still continue.
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If this were true, the real farmers would be doing it and the woodland harvests would not be able to compete economically.
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Airhead is mixing decriminalization and legalization. Decriminalization is not going to fix these problems.
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Originally posted by gofaster
If we had Prohibition, it wouldn't bother me a bit.
I would be a rumrunner and would be selling it to him at the after bar meeting in the speak easy.
If he was not addicted to alchohol he would have been addicted to something else. People like that need psycological help.
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Does it matter that Jesus enjoyed cannibis oil, you don't think he used corn oil to heal the sick do you?:D
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Tis a sad day when airhead is the only person in a thread that makes any sense.
MiniD
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it's about "drugs" so it has at least 50 more posts to it ...
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Anybody who wants, you have an open invitation to visit this summer, and I'll show you exactly what the pot culture has created up here. Then decide if this is a "victimless crime" or not.
the victims are created by the law not the weed. if anybody who wanted it could grow it in a garde in their yard all of these problems would go away. these people who are causing all the problem would find themselves with no customers and have to get real jobs.
gofaster, if pot would have been legal maybe you father could have chosen it instead, for a non-addictive method to help him relax. they could have burned a bowl at the bar association and he'd have had no need to turn to drink (which is highly addictive to certain people)
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
gofaster, if pot would have been legal maybe you father could have chosen it instead, for a non-addictive method to help him relax. they could have burned a bowl at the bar association and he'd have had no need to turn to drink (which is highly addictive to certain people)
The prohibition on pot doesn't bother me one bit, either. I suggest you educate yourself on the causes of addiction and common addictive elements. I had my education thrust upon me.
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My mom was an alcoholic. Its pretty naive to believe prohibition would have prevented your father from drinking. Just look at how well prohibition prevented people from getting booze in the '20s.
-SW
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Originally posted by Airhead
It is De Facto legalized and the problems associated with cultivation still continue.
Airhead that's just kooky. It's a freakin weed. It grows just about anywhere. If they legalized it, people could grow it easily in their backyard for free. The "problems with cultivation" are a direct result of prohibition.
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Airhead next time somebody blows his wifes brains out while being intoxicated by alcohol, think hard how taking that sip from your beer is not a victimless crime.
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
My mom was an alcoholic. Its pretty naive to believe prohibition would have prevented your father from drinking. Just look at how well prohibition prevented people from getting booze in the '20s.
-SW
I'm sorry about his dad, but that's not relevant. We shouldn't be ruled by the least common denominator. Just because one person can't handle his liquor (or his weed or his firearms or his automobile), it doesn't mean we should all lose that right. People, stop being sheep and start being Americans.
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difference between pot and alcohol addictions.
When high on pot, pot head dad would make his son fetch him a pizza, and maybe some cheese sticks. While his daughter plays video games with him.
When drunk, alchy dad beats his son, and may or may not rape is daughter.
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I wonder if you can walk a full mile along just about any stretch of "country" railroad track without finding hemp growing. All from the seeds that fell off the cars when the shipped hemp to make rope in WW2.
No cultivation at all... it's all volunteer. Going on 70 years now.
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I know Funked, but prohibition didn't work - so saying "I'd be happy with prohibition because then my father wouldn't have been an alcoholic." Is like saying, "I'd be happy without motorvehicles because then my siezure prone uncle wouldn't have crashed and died."
-SW
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Well if we are going to ban alcohol and marijuana, we should look at real health risks. I'm sure bacon and hamburgers and velveeta claim more lives than alcohol. Let's ban those too.
Also motorcycling is pretty dangerous. We should prohibit that too.
For the children!!!
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Originally posted by Eagler
it's about "drugs" so it has at least 50 more posts to it ...
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You think I want alcohol to be illegal? I don't smoke anymore, and I'm still pissed that salamanders out there are trying to force bars to not allow smoking.
-SW
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Well if we are going to ban alcohol and marijuana, we should look at real health risks. I'm sure bacon and hamburgers and velveeta claim more lives than alcohol. Let's ban those too.
Believe it or not, there are groups out there considering doing just that.
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
I know Funked, but prohibition didn't work - so saying "I'd be happy with prohibition because then my father wouldn't have been an alcoholic." Is like saying, "I'd be happy without motorvehicles because then my siezure prone uncle wouldn't have crashed and died."
-SW
He didn't seek it out. It was presented at professional functions. Ever been to a dry political party? The addiction sprung from that. He was dry through high school and military (believe it or not). He didn't start smoking until law school as a way to stay awake for studying. He didn't start drinking until he became a lawyer.
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Listen gofaster, you shouldnt want to take away other peoples rights just because your father was a lush and couldnt help himself around alcohol. I am around alcohol almost 24/7(college) and i rarely if ever drink more then a few beers. Its called self control. I am sorry your father was not man enough to have any, but shut up about trying to restrict other peoples right to drink.
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another post which shows frogboys true level of maturity and understanding - wtg creep
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So - he gave into peer pressure? Still, as Funked said, the least common denominator should not dictate what is and is not legal. If that were true, may as well just put us all in our own individual 2ft by 2ft by 8ft cell and feed us intravaneously because, afterall, we are a hazard to ourselves.
-SW
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Originally posted by gofaster
He didn't seek it out. It was presented at professional functions. Ever been to a dry political party? The addiction sprung from that. He was dry through high school and military (believe it or not). He didn't start smoking until law school as a way to stay awake for studying. He didn't start drinking until he became a lawyer.
I believe it's better to start drinking younger than at an older age. I've seen many cases where people have started drinking at an older age and usually these people have the worst self control when it comes to drinking.
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Gofaster,
I know were you are coming from, my dad was an alky, and at one point a druggy.
The difference is, I know if alcohol were illegal, once he was addicted he would have found it and if alcohol was not available then it would have been drugs sooner. Unless you are talking fantasy land(lots of idealistic liberals especially pro gun control ones like this place) there is no way to ever get rid of booze or drugs, hell you can make booze in your back yard with a still. I do not blame the booze for his problem.
I blame him. My dad did not care enough about himself or me, or anyone else to turn his life around, and he died with a vodka bottle in his hand and I got to pick up the peaces.
He made his choices, and it was not the booze that killed him, it was the apathy for life and his lack of care for himself.
You are trying to blame the booze for your father’s flaws and for his lack of will in getting them fixed.
I know the truth, you can't blame the booze.
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Don't expect me to stand up for your right to drink beer if I myself do not drink beer.
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Originally posted by gofaster
Don't expect me to stand up for your right to drink beer if I myself do not drink beer.
Well... I'll stand up for your right to speak, even if I do not agree with what you say.
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I don't know you. Therefore, why should I trust your judgment? Why should I trust that you won't get behind the wheel of a car after a hard night's drinking and kill somebody out of your lack of control?
Prohibition on alcohol wouldn't bother me a bit.
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Originally posted by gofaster
Therefore, why should I trust your judgment? Why should I trust that you won't get behind the wheel of a car after a hard night's drinking and kill somebody out of your lack of control?
Freedom isn't free.
If I get behind the wheel after drinking and kill someone, you have my permission to put a bullet to my brain.
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There was a good one in Tacoma, Washington a few years back. The police bust down the door of a small time pot dealer just before dawn. His parent were living in the house with him. He wakes up when he hears the door go down and grabs his gun thinking it might be an intruder. He sees someone in the house in the dark and opens up on them not knowing it was the police. He kills the cop and is hit several times by the other police. He has been to trial twice for murder and it's been a hung jury twice that I know of. The police were so well informed and did their job so well that they didn't know that the guy's brother, who was a country sheriff, didn't live in the house anymore. He had moved out a few months prior to the incident. They thought he still lived in the house. Gotta love it when the police do their homework.
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You have no right to dictate to anyone else what they do.
You can take you statement gofaster and remove any reference about booze and it still aplies.
Some people. Hell MOST people handle their booze fine, why do you feel the need to punish the law abiding because you dad could not handle his booze? Was it the Bar assotiation and the acholahols fault that you dad was the man he was/is?
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2stony
Thr brother who was a county sheriff was the grower/dealer?
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No, the guy in the house was the dealer(no growing going on). His brother was a sheriff. I believe the police did check to see if the cop(brother)was on duty so he wouldn't be there during the raid. Still quite bumbling if they didn't even know he had moved out of the house.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Freedom isn't free.
If I get behind the wheel after drinking and kill someone, you have my permission to put a bullet to my brain.
If we wait until something bad happens to enact legislation against it, then there's no need to prohibit the ownership of nuclear weapons by private US citizens, since to date no private US citizen has ever used a nuclear weapon against another US citizen.
Prohibition against the private ownership of nuclear weapons doesn't bother me a bit.
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Well I gues I was right about you living in fantasy land, that is one of the fantasy land liberals fav arguments right there...
Have fun in the imaginary utopia that will never happen. We in the real world LIKE freedom.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Well I gues I was right about you living in fantasy land, that is one of the fantasy land liberals fav arguments right there...
Have fun in the imaginary utopia that will never happen. We in the real world LIKE freedom.
Hopefully the real world will move closer to my fantasy land. After all, moving towards my ideal is why I vote. Otherwise, why bother?
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Originally posted by gofaster
If we wait until something bad happens to enact legislation against it, then there's no need to prohibit the ownership of nuclear weapons by private US citizens, since to date no private US citizen has ever used a nuclear weapon against another US citizen.
Prohibition against the private ownership of nuclear weapons doesn't bother me a bit.
Where do you draw the line below nukes? Howitzers? High explosives? Armor piercing rounds? Hollow points? Semi-active weapons?
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Good point, frankly though I think you are going to be disapointed, no one is going to ban alcohol again, and I bet in our lifetime drugs get decriminilized and pots gets legal.
People will still ruin their lives with both, but it still wont be the drug/boozes fault, no mater how hard you try and blame it.
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(http://www.membersllc.com/images/crutch.jpg)
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Your right Eagler,
Just like religion as well.
Some people need a crutch.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I DONT smoke dope or do any other drugs (cept for advil and such) but I'm all for legalizing pot.
Think about it. coorporations could sell it so much cheaper than any street dealer could think of so it would put alot of them out of business. Put an age limit on it like 18 or 21 and TAX THE HELL OUT IF IT just like tobacco and alcohol.
Just my opinion that keeping it illegal does more harm than good.
100%
I'm a mental health counselor, and MJ is the ONLY drug known, that helps psychotics' elimanate the "voices in their head." Most of those pot-heads we see and know, are probably suffering from some psychosis not otherwise specified.
The only illegal stuff would be what the DEA keeps for their own personal use. It could be help to the same governmental standards for alcohol and cigarettes.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
we still have the right to bear arms (much to the librals dismay) so taking him out would still be good
I'm a liberal, but I agree we have the right to bear arms. I'm with the RWs on that one.
Here is a list of my toys :-)
Hand guns:
CZ-92 cal. 6,35mm Browning
ATC Brno cal. 6,35mm Browning
Browning Buck Mark .22" LR
Ruger MK-512 .22" LR
Glock 17C cal. 9mm
Revolver:
Ruger Super Redhawk .480"
Shotgun:
Remington 870 Express
Rimfire rifles:
AR-7 Survival .22" LR
Remington 597 .22" LR
Remington 597 LS HB .22" LR
Centerfire rifles:
Ruger Mini Thirty 7,62mm x 39 (AK-47 caliber)
Remington 700 Police .308" Winchester
AR-15 assault rifle .223" Remington
And yes, every single weapon is registered :)
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Believe it or not, there are groups out there considering doing just that.
how many of those are you a memeber of? maybe you should save a few people from cheeseburgers as a lagacy for your dad.
this whole mindset of "I must interfere in the life of others, because a loved one of mine is has suffered. DON'T LET THERE LIFE BE IN VAIN."
this only pales in annoyance to "THINK OF THE CHILDREN"
sometimes your only purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.
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Originally posted by Tuomio
Airhead next time somebody blows his wifes brains out while being intoxicated by alcohol, think hard how taking that sip from your beer is not a victimless crime.
Dont blame the booze on that one. The dude had a number of other issues lonmg before he hit the bottle.
Oh, don't blame the gun companies, either....
Blame the dude for not being able to hold his alcol consumption, and his anger, in check. Then, lock his a** up
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From another thread, but...
Originally posted by lazs2
I am sure glad that not all laws are passed based on trying to save the least bright humans... the trend is heading toward that tho.
lazs
...appropriate.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
how many of those are you a memeber of? maybe you should save a few people from cheeseburgers as a lagacy for your dad.
sometimes your only purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.
Cheeseburgers didn't kill my dad, but his legacy was to serve as a warning to me.
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I just thought you might join some of these other nannying groups. you seem to agree with the mindset.
I can aplaud your deciding not to drink because of your dads example. that is an excellent quality. it's wise to learn from your mistakes and brilliant to learn from others.
but for you to decide what others should be allowed to do based on your dads mistakes is just finding something else to blame instead of allowing him to take responsability for his own behavior.
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Originally posted by Eagler
just another one in a world full of them
(http://www.membersllc.com/images/crutch.jpg)
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So it's ok for the police to bash down your door because you use too much electricity and a dog really enjoyed the smell of your house? That's scary and not a part of the America I want my kids to inherit. And before you call me a doper Eagler, I've been in the military for many years...the military and illegal drugs don't really get along well together. I just don't like seeing personal freedom and privacy being infringed upon. The war on drugs is a broken mechanism. If it hasn't worked in 20 years, it's not going to work. It's time to take a step back and look at other solutions.