Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Wilbus on March 30, 2004, 05:00:25 AM
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(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/267_1080643806_fps4.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/267_1080643787_fps3.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/267_1080643765_fps2.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/267_1080643736_fps1.jpg)
:D
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Picture quality a bit worse on these as they are turned down to JPG (used Paint when I did that so may be even worse then they should be for all I know). Don't know why the text got blurry on these pics, sharp as a knife edge in game and on the BMP screens.
Screens taken at 1280x1024 Resolution 32bit color, unlimited FPS and all sliders and other settings at default.
After I took these I increased resolution to 1600x1200 and I get the same if not even slightly better frame rate.
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ATI 9800 Pro?
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P4 2.4Ghz.
512Mb Rambus 533Mhz RDRAM.
Radeon 9700 non Pro, BIOS flashed to Pro and Overclocked to 350 core frequency and 300 memory frequency. Zalman heatsink + fan for custom cooling.
Cataclyst 4.3 Drivers. Rage 3D tweak used to tweak to "optimal performance".
The Optimal performance settings will most likely decrease picture quality some, however it's nothing that I notice when flying (or care about for that matter).
If I take two screenshots and put them next to another, one being optimal performance and one being optimal quailty I will probarly see some difference but not much.
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(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/154_1080658106_ahss0.jpg)
2400+, Ti 4200, 1600x1200x32, V-sync off Duh
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Go away Zmeg :D
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Ah but Wilby you do not have all them horrid nasty jaggies that Zmeg displays and his triangle count is about a 1000 less.
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rubber bullet ppl - you have v-sync off :)
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True Cavalier! :D
Actually Eagler, I flew with it today without experienced any kind of rubber bullet effect.
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Originally posted by Wilbus
True Cavalier! :D
Actually Eagler, I flew with it today without experienced any kind of rubber bullet effect.
cool - was it better off? any less flicker or studder or about the same with less fps and vsync on?
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Have used vsync on and off and do not suffer with rubber bullets.
Well not unless its Wilby in my sights ;)
However i do have to say i am impressed with Zmegs fps reading with a Nvidia 4200 as if correct its approx 100 fps better than a Radeon 9800 pro can manage.
Which would still appear to be unexpected.
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I haven't tested these settings in AH2 online yet so I can't comment on the stutter thing Eagler, will try it tonight and let you know.
other then that it feels pretty much the same, just +100 to 120 fps or so.
Well Cav, I do my best to stay out of your sights, it's not a place I wanna be :)
And yeah, Zmegs's got impressive FPS, IMO My 9700 Radeon should beat his.
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What frame rate can your monitor support though?
As for v-sync, Skuzzy always said it causes other problems aswell as rubber bullets.
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The monitor has no limitations as far as I know when it comes to Frame rate. Frequency is often missunderstood with frame rate. My monitor frequency is 75Hz at 1600x1200. It doesn't affect frame rate though.
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My uber laptop only allows 60 FPS max. I am usually at 60 or 59
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Originally posted by Wilbus
The monitor has no limitations as far as I know when it comes to Frame rate. Frequency is often missunderstood with frame rate. My monitor frequency is 75Hz at 1600x1200. It doesn't affect frame rate though.
Actually if your refresh rate is 75 then you can never display more than 75 fps. The fps number you see is what the card could do if your monitor could display it.
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vsync locks the monitor freq to the video card providing the limit of the monitor freq to be the fps cap.
when vsync is turned off, the fps is not tied to the monitor and numbers as shown above are produced. i think the problem lies in the fact that though the video card produces high fps, if your system can't keep up, you get things like rubber bullets
maybe with todays super fast systems, vsync isn't really needed as it once was..
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Exactly Eagler, monitor is only tied to FPS update rate if Vsync is on.
I will go and fly some with Vsync off and see how it performs.
Have tried some but not much, had no problems.
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The monitor will never display more frames per second than its refresh rate. Refresh rate of 75Hz = 75fps. Regardless of the number at the top of the screen, the monitor displays frames at its refresh rate. Excess frames produced by the card are dropped by the monitor causing tearing of the display and reduced image quality. With vsync off the image you see on the monitor and the image produced by the card are different. With it on they're the same and the maximum fps displayed = the monitor refresh rate.
Vsync locks the card to the monitor refresh rate, not the other way around. If you really want a higher refresh rate, you have to set your monitor to display at a higher rate, not turn vsync off.
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ChasR is quite correct.
For the sake of math, if your monitor is running at 60Hz, and you show a frame rate of 180FPS, then, best case, you are seeing 1 in 3 frames (two frames of data are thrown away), worst case; the video card tries to blast all the 3 frames and you end up with 3 overlapped images with tearing occuring in at least 2 regions.
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ok...
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Originally posted by zmeg
2400+, Ti 4200, 1600x1200x32, V-sync off Duh
What do you mean 2400+? is this an AMD card?
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yes
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Whew, for a moment there I thought we were going to see the first perked computer.
I guess it is for sure AH2 will not work on an Atari ST.
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AMD Atlhon 2400+ is a CPU.
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well, i havent figure out how to post an image , but if i look straight up through a p-51 i get as high as 262 fps with vsync off, though i never leave it off.... i though i would see what i could get , xp3200 9800 pro 1600 X1200
38maw
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So I guess I need a monitor with a 120Mhz refresh rate.
:D
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seems like it capera...
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I don't think your eyes and brain can tell the difference between 85fps and 100fps. Some folks may be able discern flicker @ 60 fps. Anything over 72fps is considered flicker free. 120fps is overkill. Furthermore, many CRT monitors lose image quality when you run them over 85fps at high resolutions.
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Originally posted by ChasR
The monitor will never display more frames per second than its refresh rate. Refresh rate of 75Hz = 75fps. Regardless of the number at the top of the screen, the monitor displays frames at its refresh rate. Excess frames produced by the card are dropped by the monitor causing tearing of the display and reduced image quality. With vsync off the image you see on the monitor and the image produced by the card are different. With it on they're the same and the maximum fps displayed = the monitor refresh rate.
Vsync locks the card to the monitor refresh rate, not the other way around. If you really want a higher refresh rate, you have to set your monitor to display at a higher rate, not turn vsync off.
I am curious
Then why do they keep comming out with better and better Video cards capable of mega FPS when most monitors do not have a refreash rate more then 80hz?
Least thats the fastest I've found
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depends on the resolution the monitor is set at
the lower the res the higher the possible refresh rate
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Market demand aside, it costs quite a bit to get higher vertical refresh rates. You have to go to expensive rare earth phoshors and the electronics are much more expensive.
I have a professional series NEC monitor and it can run at 102Hz @ 1280x1024 or 136Hz @ 1024x768. High quality monitors are getting harder and harder to come by. People just will not pay the prices for them as they do not understand the benefits of them.
The higher end video cards are more about not dipping to unplayable levels when in a high detail environment.
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Where abouts is the D3D vsync switch for an Ti 4200?
I can find the OpenGL option...
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Market demand aside, it costs quite a bit to get higher vertical refresh rates. You have to go to expensive rare earth phoshors and the electronics are much more expensive.
I have a professional series NEC monitor and it can run at 102Hz @ 1280x1024 or 136Hz @ 1024x768. High quality monitors are getting harder and harder to come by. People just will not pay the prices for them as they do not understand the benefits of them.
The higher end video cards are more about not dipping to unplayable levels when in a high detail environment.
Nice. how much one of those run for?
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They seem to be running somewhere in the neighborhood of $450-$500 for a 19 inch model now.
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I have a Iiyama Vision Master Pro 454 19" monitor running at 102 hz at 1600 x 1200. Very pleased with this monitor! :)
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Originally posted by capera
So I guess I need a monitor with a 120Mhz refresh rate.
:D
My stock Gateway VX730 can run 100Mhz at 1024x768. So, that's the resolution I fly in and get consistent 100fps in AH1 no matter what the situation (except tank town), varies now in AH2 between 40 and 90 depending on the situation.
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What is the MAX rate the eye can process or where there is no added benifit?
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Apparantly some scientists say its 60, which I think is aload of bull****.
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zmeg....what drivers are you running? We have about the same system...I'm running a 2600+ on a gigabyte board with 512 pc 2700 DDR and Ti 4200. Kind of amazed that your running about 3x the fps....what am I missing?
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Actually scientific experiments show that the human brain can detect flicker up to kiloherz frequencies even though the test subjects aren't aware of it.
It causes stress, headaches and concentration problems. Common cause of trouble are fluorescent lights that are common in offices. With them, I often see severe flickering even though the monitor is displaying 85hz or more. It's caused by the harmonic effect between the monitor and fluorescent light flickering.
The only way to remove the problem is to use conventional or halogen lamps or to buy electronic switching devices for the fluorescent tubes (they raise the flicker to 30 000 hz which is not detectable by brain at present knowledge.)
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I pretty sure in a blind test I could tell the difference between 60 and 75Hz. I doubt I could tell the difference in 75 and 85Hz and I know I couldn't tell the difference between 85 and 100Hz. The higher refresh rates may be easier on the eyes over long periods of staring into the monitor.
The monitor I use on my Ace's High #1 computer is the Samsung 1100df. Its optimal resolution is 1280 x 1024 @ 85Hz, which is what I run. It will display 2048 x 1536 @ 75Hz. $445 @ newegg.
Samsung 1100df @ Newegg (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=0&submit=Go&description=samsung%2C1100df)