Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: midnight Target on March 30, 2004, 11:43:54 AM
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Is good.... get over it!
We can't get enough warm bodies in here to fill the orders we have now. Where the heck are all those dang unemployed people?
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MT your labor shortage is not Bush's doing....if there is somthing posotive about the economy its "no one man has that much power to effect the economy"
If its bad news its "this president has the worst job records since hoover"
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Is good.... get over it!
We can't get enough warm bodies in here to fill the orders we have now. Where the heck are all those dang unemployed people?
This would be the "increased productivity" one hears so much about these days....
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Is good.... get over it!
We can't get enough warm bodies in here to fill the orders we have now. Where the heck are all those dang unemployed people?
Seriously though...I know of a lot of people that are hiring right now BUT they arent the high tech high paying jobs of the past. The job market has switched Here's an example:
In 2000 i was getting out of the Marines for the first time....I had 5 years of experince in RF and RADAR technology with microcomponent ciricut board repair. I was a needed technician. I put my resume on the internet and within 24 hours had 5 interviews set up.
that was then.
I was hired by a company that repaired and serviced land mobile radios and trunking systems. I loved my job and was great at it....then motorola came out with a new radio and said they will fix or replace any radio for $200. Well there was no need for a well trained highly paid technician any more all they needed was a contractor to maintain the trunk and a shipping clerk to send and recieve the radios. I was unemployed. I retrained into a more "mechanical" discapline and I'm not happy with what I do.
Point of this whole rant is there are plenty of jobs out there right now....you just have to know were to look and maybe retrain your self to do somthing you think may be "below you"
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who in their right minds wants to build mobile old folks homes? :)
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Will this affect your trip?
From the Austin paper today:
RV company president guilty
A federal jury on Monday found the president of a recreational vehicle company with dealerships in Buda, Seguin and Mission guilty of money laundering and bank fraud.
Federal prosecutors charged that Jim Rich, 55, president of Interstate RV Center Inc., misrepresented his inventory of recreational vehicles on applications for loans from Pacific Southwest Bank. The loans were "floor plan loans" and were contingent upon Rich putting a bank lien on unsold vehicles.
Rich was found guilty of four counts of money laundering, money laundering conspiracy, conspiracy to commit bank fraud and aiding and abetting bank fraud. The top count carries a maximum punishment of 30 years in prison.
Rich was indicted in May after an investigation by special agents with the IRS and the FBI. The U.S. attorney's office in Austin prosecuted the case.
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Originally posted by Eagler
who in their right minds wants to build mobile old folks homes? :)
Eagler,
Think about this a moment. In a couple months I'll be traveling where I want when I want whenever I want. I'll be staying in my own home which will follow along behind my RV motorhome toter and all without my having to work, AND I'll be getting money to do it with.
Please think about this while you are in your 9 to 5 job. I'll be touristing, fishing, hiking, hunting, photographing, scuba diving, snorkeling, internet browsing (by satelite), watching TV and generally enjoying the sights and activities this continent can provide.
In short this sums it up.
NEENER NEENER NEENER :p
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Lol Mav!
This retirement stuff is a beach, ain't it?
Finally doing what YOU want to do ALL the time instead of what someone else wants you to do?
Oh, the horror! :)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/116_1080535368_42.jpg)
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Originally posted by Toad
Lol Mav!
This retirement stuff is a beach, ain't it?
Finally doing what YOU want to do ALL the time instead of what someone else wants you to do?
Oh, the horror! :)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/116_1080535368_42.jpg)
Geez! Come on up to the NW, I'll give ya a good haircut, Toad! :D
Nice pic, btw.
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Wait till u see my ponytail! Maybe another six months or so.........
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Originally posted by Toad
Wait till u see my ponytail! Maybe another six months or so.........
Congrats on the future pony tail, will it be ear hair? :p
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You're just jealous.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Congrats on the future pony tail, will it be ear hair? :p
LOL, PWN3D :)
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Originally posted by Toad
You're just jealous.
My nose hair can out-braid your nose hair!:eek:
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Originally posted by Toad
Wait till u see my ponytail! Maybe another six months or so.........
Hippie!
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Rip, you can probably beat me on nose and ear hair. I don't have much of that. I just have hair on top of my head. I think I recall you're already a bit .... what's that word? Bald? Is that it?
Neener, neener!
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Hair is overrated
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/94_1080689838_march2003019.jpg)
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MT the only redeaming quality I see you have is great taste in dogs
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Originally posted by LAWCobra
MT the only redeaming quality I see you have is great taste in dogs
That is true but they have to be sedated for him to get close to them. :p
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Seriously though...I know of a lot of people that are hiring right now BUT they arent the high tech high paying jobs of the past. The job market has switched.
(snip)
Point of this whole rant is there are plenty of jobs out there right now....you just have to know were to look and maybe retrain your self to do something you think may be "below you"
Yup ... somethin' certainly needs fixin'. More jobs ain't always the be all-end all solution when the new jobs are all fast food and temp labor postions. All that means is that "Joe Average" has to have more than one job to feed his family. Companies aren't looking to hire someone that'll be with them until retirement like they used to. That's a liability, yaknow.
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Toad is growing a ponytail....
[pause]
Just got a Ripsnort special this morning.. feels great!
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Originally posted by 10Bears
Toad is growing a ponytail....
[pause]
Just got a Ripsnort special this morning.. feels great!
Triple-edged razor special? Or my famous Ranger-cut special? I wear the former, my boys the latter..
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Geez! Come on up to the NW, I'll give ya a good haircut, Toad! :D
Nice pic, btw.
Why I think his sandy and tan hair looks fine.
It's the orange ribbons that clash with Toads hair:)
BTW Nice looking dogs, Someone posted they raise dog de bordues? (SP) My Rottie died and my wife says I can get another dog in the spring. WELL SPRING is here. I thought tho's Dog de bordue where just what I'm looking for. I have a fenced yard little over a half acre. I want a really big dog with the temperment of a loyal Rottie.
NUTTZ
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Originally posted by 10Bears
Toad is growing a ponytail....
[pause]
Just got a Ripsnort special this morning.. feels great!
Isn't a Ripsnort "special" Parting your hair ear to ear?
NUTTZ
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Most people that I know here in Oregon that were layed off in 2000 were able to find other jobs in the tech industry. Companies are just more cautious about how many they hire these days.
I do like the "companies don't hire people with the intention of keeping them" statement. I know a few big companies that are like that... but I know a few more that would love to be able to retain experienced employees. The mid 90s forced those companies to learn to work with a revolving work force... and it wasn't because of layoffs.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Mini D
I know a few big companies that are like that...
More and more the trend, miniD. One industry growing by leaps and bounds in the U.S. is the temporary service industry.
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I disagree arlo. There have always been the hire and fire companies like HP, Motorolla, boeing and the auto industry that are notorious for those practices, but it's the ones that you don't hear about on the news (which outnumber the ones you do hear about by a long shot) that prefer the experience in the work force.
The problem is, those companies had people coming and going in quick succession for most of the last 10 years. Of the 50 or so people I worked with 11 years ago, perhaps 7 are still with the company, and none of them were layed off. Of the 7 that are still with the company, 3 of them left then came back. For those that prefered security, it was there. But most were chasing the % increase in the salary and hopped wherever they had to. We had about 10 startup fabs get going at the same time in the area... and people were going from $15/hr with 1 year experience to $22/hr with a new startup. Why not make the change? Then when the new startup failed because of too much overhead, they went to the next new startup making even more.
We now have an experience gap where I work. There's the old dogs with 10 or more years and there's those with 4 or less years... a relatively small percentage in between. It's a bit odd given that 96-2000 were our major growth years nearly doubling the size of our work force.
MiniD
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dang MT, lose the girly glasses and we could almost pass for brothers
(http://www.pogbird.com/ebay/park.jpg)
imagine that :)
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We can't get enough warm bodies in here to fill the orders we have now. Where the heck are all those dang unemployed people?
what is your pay rate?
what is the cost of living in the surounding area?
whats the average price of a months rent or a mortgage payment?
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Originally posted by Mini D
I disagree arlo.
You can disagree all you want, MiniD ... that doesn't change the fact that more and more companies are cutting back their workforce to the bone and then resorting to temp labor hiring to fill in positions when neccesary.
They do it to cut overhead and the amount of money saved from not having to pay health benefits and retirement pay to a large portion of their workforce is no small chunk of change, either. Ever your own example cited shows that practice.
No ... no company cuts ALL positions to temps. Yes SOME of them get to stay and reap the benefits. It may even "create more jobs" (seasonally speaking) but it certainly cuts back on "maintaining more careers."
And blaming it all on the workforce because they won't stick with one company for long isn't a very good or rational argument. Trust me, the working population of the U.S. isn't filled with people who are too bored to stick with one career if that career pays a decent salary and get a kick out of going to job interviews time and again. Nor are companies jumping all over themselves to outbid each other over permanent blue collar positions the way you make it sound. Maybe in your little chunk of the world does the blue collar worker reap endless golden opprotunity (and if so, I'd like to know where that is) but I doubt it. I know in mine is certainly doesn't.
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Actually... you saying it doesn't make it any more or less real either arlo.
There's 800 or so people in my organization right now... zero temps. Every position is considered a skilled position and experienced labor is definately desired... as is retaining experienced people.
Many companies are more likely to lose people due to attrition as opposed to cutbacks. The thing is, you only hear about it when they actually have to cut back. It's a spotlight effect that doesn't reflect the true nature of the industry.
There has been literally a 30% turnover rate where I work. They used to boast a 1-3% rate pre-95. It's gotten better over the last 2 years... maybe to 10%. That is with zero layoffs. Of the 30% leaving... perhaps 1% has been fired.
MiniD
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Here's another way to look at it:
My father is getting ready to retire in a couple of years. He's #1 in seniority where he's at... been there for 40 years. Out of about 200 people. He's been in the top 5 for the last 15 years. Now, for every one person that retires, 20 come and go. That's also in a company that hasn't done layoffs since he's been working there. The company is more than happy to hold on to it's employees, they just tend to go to looking for that green grass they keep hearing about.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Toad
Lol Mav!
This retirement stuff is a beach, ain't it?
Finally doing what YOU want to do ALL the time instead of what someone else wants you to do?
Oh, the horror! :)
Some of us can only dream. Had a visit from a retired friend this weekend. His nickname is "Toad" believe it or not...
I asked how he was enjoying retirement.
He stated that he's better at retirement than any job he's ever had.
:)
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Originally posted by Eagler
dang MT, lose the girly glasses and we could almost pass for brothers
(http://www.pogbird.com/ebay/park.jpg)
imagine that :)
Dude you kinda look like a doper. :D
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Originally posted by Mini D
Actually... you saying it doesn't make it any more or less real either arlo.
There's 800 or so people in my organization right now... zero temps. Every position is considered a skilled position and experienced labor is definately desired... as is retaining experienced people.
Many companies are more likely to lose people due to attrition as opposed to cutbacks. The thing is, you only hear about it when they actually have to cut back. It's a spotlight effect that doesn't reflect the true nature of the industry.
There has been literally a 30% turnover rate where I work. They used to boast a 1-3% rate pre-95. It's gotten better over the last 2 years... maybe to 10%. That is with zero layoffs. Of the 30% leaving... perhaps 1% has been fired.
Here's another way to look at it:
My father is getting ready to retire in a couple of years. He's #1 in seniority where he's at... been there for 40 years. Out of about 200 people. He's been in the top 5 for the last 15 years. Now, for every one person that retires, 20 come and go. That's also in a company that hasn't done layoffs since he's been working there. The company is more than happy to hold on to it's employees, they just tend to go to looking for that green grass they keep hearing about.
MiniD
I'm happy for you and your dad. Sounds nice to live in Nirvana, USA. Most the rest of us have to live in Mudville. Not sure which spotlight is shining where but from most of the people I've conversed with online, yours sounds the exception. Remember ... blue collar. "Skilled labor in a small company that is secure and able to retain it's people and pay them well" is fine and dandy but doesn't reflect the majority of the work force by any margin. I sure hope you make it to retirementville like your dad. wtg :D
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Both companies are fortune 500 companies, at least one is fortune 50. Both employ over 80,000 worldwide each.
They aren't small. They prefer to hold onto their work force.
Now... let's talk about the software industry and you'll see another story. But if you look back to the lat 90's again, you'll see the same trend. There was alot of turnover and companies learned to do without or deal with rotation and training.
MiniD
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over 4% growth is considered good growth in the economy... about right.
You guys wives make you wear them shorts?
lazs
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Is good.... get over it!
We can't get enough warm bodies in here to fill the orders we have now. Where the heck are all those dang unemployed people?
Your business is booming because of all the people being forced into early retirement. AT&T will be sending a few more customer to you in the next couple of days. April 1st has more significance than simply practical jokes around here.
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Originally posted by lazs2
over 4% growth is considered good growth in the economy... about right.
You guys wives make you wear them shorts?
lazs
not all of us have chicken legs :)
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chicken legs! what I wouldn't give to have chicken legs! Heck... I would be happy if children didn't cry and grab their mommies when they seen my leg(s). Amputations by ElDorado bumpers can be unsightly. Hving Kaiser do the re-attach can have the same result.
lazs
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A. We don't hire people on a temporary basis. Training costs money. Losing people sucks and hurts the bottom line.
B. We start line workers in the $12/hr range and pay based on job knowledge. These guys are working 50-60 hour weeks right now. Line supervisors also get a bonus based on production. This can turn into serious money during the busy season.
C. Housing prices in this area are probably the lowest in Southern California. (That means a $150K house only sells for $250K instead of the $350K you woud spend in the OC.)
D. I'll go along with that Eagler.. but I am the good-looking smart brother. :cool:
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I swear I saw Lazs' missing leg bone for sale at a market in Chinatown.
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rumors abound.... last I seen it some mangy cur was running off with it just as the meat wagon arrived.
lazs
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Lazs has 1 chicken leg and one that's more of a pork chop leg.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Mini D
Both companies are fortune 500 companies, at least one is fortune 50. Both employ over 80,000 worldwide each.
They aren't small. They prefer to hold onto their work force.
Now... let's talk about the software industry and you'll see another story. But if you look back to the lat 90's again, you'll see the same trend. There was alot of turnover and companies learned to do without or deal with rotation and training.
MiniD
McDonald's is a fortune 500 company. I doubt the majority of it's employees are reaping the benefits of "growth in the economy."
We obviously have different perspectives about what a "good economy" means (as do MT, my long time online friend, and I). To take an example of what one's own company's practices and current growth and profit margin are ... as well as how they treat their workforce and attempt to portray it as the national standard is a futile exercise, at best.
Likewise, my own experiences are merely a reflection of what may well be the opposite end of the spectrum with the true picture being somewhere in between.
Yet, I can say that several of my long time online aquaintances within the last year have suffered from layoffs and not all of them have been able to continue work in their field of experience. Some are still struggling to find something even close to providing the take-home pay they have become accustomed to. Some have even dropped off the radar and I'm concerned for their welfare.
Sure, a few of my online aquaintances have enjoyed the luxury of being able to continue a lengthy career and have either retired or are approaching retirement. But it appears to be becoming more of a rare thing across the nation. Locally, it's becoming very rare.
That's why it's hard for me to take a post exhalting the growth of our economy based on a personal reflection of one's own company or business. There will always be a flower blooming in the desert. There will always be weeds in the garden.
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Yet, I can say that several of my long time online aquaintances within the last year have suffered from layoffs and not all of them have been able to continue work in their field of experience. Some are still struggling to find something even close to providing the take-home pay they have become accustomed to. Some have even dropped off the radar and I'm concerned for their welfare.
The caveat is duly noted. There's a reason people were having problems finding pay to the level they became accustomed to in the late 90s.
As for the McDonnald's dig... continue on. Neither company employs anyone for less than $10/hr and the average laboror salaray would be closer to $20/hr... with laboror salaries easily reaching $35/hr for experienced employees.
My experience is seeing the attitude of the work force that is out there today. Especially the young workforce. Its as if people have forgotten that you are getting payed to do a job because it's work. It's not a hobby, it's not an interest, it's work. Virtually every person I know that left my group, went to find more money with a young upstart company. Most would brag about how much more they were making right up until the company failed. They were more insterested in the salary and less in the security. Fortunately for me, this forced the company to start raising salaries in an attempt to keep employees and I benifited. Though, I'd gladly trade a % increase in salary for job security.
Effectively, our new hires are considered temps just because they're not likley to still be around in 1 year simply because of the stupidity of youth. It only seems to be newsworthy when the company forces it... not when the employees are manipulating it.
MiniD
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Originally posted by midnight Target
D. I'll go along with that Eagler.. but I am the good-looking smart brother. :cool:
i was thinking you were more like the dumpy, ugly but kinder one :)
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Originally posted by Mini D
As for the McDonnald's dig... continue on. Neither company employs anyone for less than $10/hr and the average laboror salaray would be closer to $20/hr... with laboror salaries easily reaching $35/hr for experienced employees.
It's not a dig, D. It's an example of why "Fortune 500" status really has nothing to do with the standard of living of the employees. Your company treats it's employees well. Very good. But not convincing evidence that all companies do.
Besides, you mentioned that all of the employees are skilled laborers. That must mean that the menial tasks associated with day to day operations are carried out by contract labor (ie: cleaning the bathrooms, vacuuming, taking out the trash, etc). If any of these people actually work during your working hours, try getting to know one of them on a first name basis and see if, over time, they're willing to discuss with your all the financial and material benefits they recieve from their association with your company. If, that is, they ever reach that level of comfort to discuss such with you over lunch or something.
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So Arlo, are you advocating the same pay for disparate work and responsibilities? All workers of a company should be paid the same irregardless of their duties?
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You're flipflopping arlo. You're having to use "menial labor" as examples of contracting while dismissing McDonnald's employees because of their low salaries?
Companies aren't starting to outsource and contract cleaning crews, security, cafeteria staff... they've always outsourced/contracted it. The fact that you have to play that card speaks volumes to the lack of examples to support your original point. Or are those friends you are talking about layed off janitors that can't find any work right now that pays as well as their previous job?
Skilled workers were empowered in the late 90s. They actually became a comodoty on many fronts. Company loyalty went right out the window as a result. Blame corperations all you want... just don't pretend it's all their fault that corperate/employee loyalty went out the window over the last 10 years.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Maverick
So Arlo, are you advocating the same pay for disparate work and responsibilities? All workers of a company should be paid the same irregardless of their duties?
That was an interesting interpretation and all but no.
I'm saying that posting something along the lines of "Boy, my company is expanding and created more positions and we can't get enough warm bodies to fill them ergo the entire nation's economy is kicking arse" is not a valid observation.
Both Mid-T and MiniD have claimed otherwise and although their jobs and the companies they work for appear to be both secure and concerned with employee welfare, that doesn't make it the trend across the nation.
I'm also saying that the trend from MY perspective appears to be more along the lines of companies resorting to running their operations with as few permanent employees as they can get away with and utilizing temp labor to handle the non-skilled (and in some cases "semi-skilled") labor to avoid the additional cost of benefits and retirement. Then again, that's based on MY observations of the local situation and conversations I've had with others online about their experiences and observations.
Bottom line: The bottom line of the corporate sector has never impressed me much when talking about the economic health of our nation. The quality of life of it's average citizen has. Creating a billion minimum wage service sector jobs or supplanting actual long term careers with temporary help isn't going to really help things.
There ya go.
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Originally posted by Mini D
You're flipflopping arlo. You're having to use "menial labor" as examples of contracting while dismissing McDonnald's employees because of their low salaries?
Companies aren't starting to outsource and contract cleaning crews, security, cafeteria staff... they've always outsourced/contracted it. The fact that you have to play that card speaks volumes to the lack of examples to support your original point. Or are those friends you are talking about layed off janitors that can't find any work right now that pays as well as their previous job?
Skilled workers were empowered in the late 90s. They actually became a comodoty on many fronts. Company loyalty went right out the window as a result. Blame corperations all you want... just don't pretend it's all their fault that corperate/employee loyalty went out the window over the last 10 years.
MiniD
I'm not flip-flopping at all, D. No, the friends I mentioned aren't layed off janitors (and what a crappy little implication on your part).
And no, the American workforce isn't "disloyal to the corporation." It's the other way around. Corporate America sold out it's loyalty to the American worker awhile back by cutting back it's indiginous workforce in favor of building plants overseas to cut the largest overhead - employee pay and benefits. And more and more what "unskilled labor" it does utilize in the states is coming from temporary service agencies. It's a rotten thing to do to the American workforce. It's corporate America that needs to rebuild the trust, not the other way around.
There are plenty of Americans who would gladly tow the company banner, as you do, if only they would be allowed to. But unfortunately most of the execs would just as soon fire as many employees as it takes to make the end of the year profit/cost margin look acceptable at the board meeting and to hell with the long term effects. And the middle managers sing the same song you do, heaping praise on their bosses ... that is until their jobs are forfeit as well.
Sure ... there are exceptions but the rule is looking clearer day by day. May that never happen to you and yours, bro. But don't get all belligerent with me because I offered a counterpoint you couldn't stomach. Now ... have at it but there it is. Have a nice day anyway. :D
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I never implied your friends were janitors arlo... the whole janitor subject is something you resorted to.
And please find where I said anything about the economy. I don't believe I've mentioned it at all in this thread. I only adressed your assertation that companies are not hiring people to keep them anymore.
It is still incorrect. It will continue to be incorrect. As is your assertation that corperations are the only entities being disloyal. Hell... the deserve to have people quit and hop from job to job looking for pay increases. After all the evil they levied on the people. Now who is the one being rediculous here arlo?
I worked in a company where this was not going on. People continually quit simply for more pay, only to end up unemployed when the other company folded. This wasn't because the company had stopped being loyal to it's employees, it was because the employees became a commodity and behaved accordingly. Nobody drove them off. Nobody downsized them... they simply left. Now... where's the loyalty again?
I'm showing the inherant nature of people to go where they think the getting is good. To look for the quick buck without considering much else. It really came back to bite alot of people in late 2000... both at the corporate level and the personal level.
Are buisnesses using temp labor these days? Of course they are. But even you are toning it down to "unskilled labor" now. Does this explain why your friends are unemployed?
The same can be said for tech support jobs moving overseas. Ask SOB if the company he works for is BEGGING him to go full time. He'd be a great person to talk to about how difficult it is for these companies to hire anything near competent help these days, much less hold them.
So.. to wrap up with you arlo... I'm not bragging about my company or my position. I'm saying in an area where things were pretty easy for folk and work was anything but difficult... in an area where anyone could stay as long as they liked... we saw the turn over rate go from 3% to 30%. That's without any cutbacks. That's without brutal policies being levied. It's just that the workforce decided the time for jumping ship was ripe.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Mini D
So.. to wrap up with you arlo... I'm not bragging about my company or my position. I'm saying in an area where things were pretty easy for folk and work was anything but difficult... in an area where anyone could stay as long as they liked... we saw the turn over rate go from 3% to 30%. That's without any cutbacks. That's without brutal policies being levied. It's just that the workforce decided the time for jumping ship was ripe.
MiniD
Sounds pretty much regional, and I'm sorry to hear it.
Here, my generation was almost universally endowed with the work ethics of our fathers. We were taught to seek out the work we either enjoyed or was good at and barring that, to learn to enjoy or get good at the work we eventually ended up doing.
Those who were fortunate enough to go to college and receive a degree (and that wasn't exactly uncommon) were expected to excel, of course. But even those who went from high school into the workforce and starting a family of their own (which was MUCH more common) were taught that if you "made a good hand" that the company you worked for would appreciate you and you could stick with them and have a good life and eventually retire and go fishin'.
Someone forgot to tell the company execs that. I've seen my fair share of workers with ten to fifteen years service (in some instances more ... up to even less than a year from retirement) "downsized" from the workforce and having to start over again, often in a completely unrelated field where their years of experience meant nothing.
So it looks as if neither of us can claim a universal exact as to the nature of the relationship of the corporation and the worker in America.
Let me add that the term "union" has never been well received in this neck of the woods. Local business owners resisted them for obvious reasons and made sure that employees knew that the "way up THEIR ladder" (any chance of eventually becoming middle management .. which is the highest you could expect to go without a degree) would require the type of loyalty that didn't hold with such things. That being the case, the only union members locally are tradesmen or some of the few companies that migrated here whose corporate HQs were formed in an area where unionized labor already existed. Many of those "outsider" companies no longer exist here.
I've been a "company man." I've had friends who were "company men." We went to work and no matter our position on the ladder we gave it our best, we worked as professionals even if we weren't considered "professional status."
We are now in our forties and the "nineteen fifties" work ethics our fathers passed onto us ended up making us sheep for the slaughter in a world of cutthroat business practices.
Somewhere along the line a generation of executives decided we were expendable. Unless one managed to get into the "GOB" (good old boy) network and played company politics with the right people, it just didn't matter anymore how good you were at your job. Even then, there was no guarantee that the good `ol boys themselves wouldn't get downsized if the company had an out of town network of higher execs that had their own GOB network ... but at least some of them had golden parachutes.
Do I sound bitter? Damned straight. Do I feel betrayed? You betcha. So forgive me if I don't accept your version of "how good corporate America is versus the selfish and lazy American workforce" as a universal.
If, somehow, your region managed to avoid all of this and company ethics, by and large, still values it's workforce, that's great. I bear no animosity toward you for that. I just wanted you to get a different perspective from someone who HAS worked for a long time to achieve what you have and has obviously met more disappointment in that regards than you (or your father) has.
And as for the point of the thread: your local economy may be teh watermelon but that don't fertilize the flowers over here.
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well... just in my time I have seen some radical changes. It used to be that high school was a lot of education for construction jobs... you could flunk out and make a LOT of money in construction as a painter, carpenter, sheetrocker etc... hell, even laborors made more than your average bank employee.,
now.. the construction trade is pretty much minimum wage... even plumbing and electrical are being roughed in by non english speakers at minimum wage.
City employees have to have high school educations to mow lawns and they prefer 'some colloge'...
There are a few of us dinosours out there that have high school educations that are in managment positions but when we die/retire we will be replaced by better educated young guys (for better or worse)... for the most part tho....
Those of us who continued our education through night school and such prospered... many didn't (they either didn't want to or couldn't go back to school)and fell by the wayside.
Oh well... no matter what.. things have gotten better for me.. my worst day at the desk is still better than carrying a hod with 100 lbs of plaster while climbing a ladder two stories all day.
lazs
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I don't believe I accused anyone of being lazy arlo. The discussion was on loyalty. I see very little desire towards it from new employees today. Hell, even bringing up the cut-throat aspect of things highlights my point. The employee force has changed. Corperations have changed also. We're just disagreeing on who caused what.
The basic statement I'm making is that companies are just as prone to want to pay less as employees are to want to make more. No one side is innocent. To believe just one participant is the evil entity is simply wrong.
MiniD