Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Dynamite danny on September 29, 1999, 10:56:00 PM
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I like it a lil. Althouh the flight model is a bit unrealistic. AND, I think that whole RED OUT, BLACK OUT thing is a bit silly. Over all, it is a neat game. I cant wait to see wut they do in the final version.
Have any of you ever played "The Battle of BrittaN"? That is a new game comin out, and I think it looks pretty cool. I'm one of the alpha testers for that game, and I think it is pretty fun. If you want to see screenshots of it, go to
www.simguild.com (http://www.simguild.com)
This game is certainly worth your time to look at. Its not out yet, but you can see screenshots. One thing that is really great about BATTLE OF BRITTAN is that there is no annoying REDOUT, or BLACKOUT. I think that adds to the realism, seeing as I've never "Blacked out" in any of the planes I flew.
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......You know people realy do/did black out in real life. So if ya call that silly then go play FA youll be a bit happyer sounds like they have the FM's and the gameplay your looking for there buddy.
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Gijoey,Joetwo,JoeMud=me
DHBG!!
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Spend some time offline and dial in your joystick, at first I had some tunnel vision too but for the most part it`s no longer a problem. BTW- does your flying experience include high performance military fighter planes? Do a web search on the subject and you will discover some facts that may even help your "virtual flying". Remember this an early beta and will have some rough edges,give Hi-Tech and the crew a bit of time and it will be one of the best flight sims on the market-just like his previous one. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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}]
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Yeah and what about that annoying "terra firma" thing? I keep crashing into it and die..not very realistic... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Sascha
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"One thing that is really great about BATTLE OF BRITTAN is that there is no annoying REDOUT, or BLACKOUT. I think that adds to the realism,"
ROTFL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One thing that is really great thing about Super Mario Karts is that there is none of that silly DYING or DAMAGE when you hit the wall. I think that really adds to the realism.
Sorry, I must not mock the afflicted. I must not mock the afflicted. I must not mock the afflicted, I must not .....
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I was watching a special on The Learning Channel or Discovery Channel.
It compared the U.S. Airforc and Russian Air Force.
The Russians were testing kids, and they had to be able to pass certain physical tests before even being considered for pilot training.
The U.S. Airforce takes engineers, and pumps oxygen to their brain.
Now what I know of engineers, the oxygen hasn't helped.
Perhaps some of our Russian Friends can inform us if lack of oxygen has helped their engineering?
Obviously Danny's oxygen supply was cut off some time ago. Redouts and Blackouts unrealistic.
And Danny, should you reply, how did you get a job as an alpha tester for that outfit, and does it pay more than 55K a year?
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"I could feel the 20MM Cannon impacting behind me so I made myself small behind the pilot armor" Charlie Bond AVG
[This message has been edited by Downtown (edited 09-30-1999).]
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Hey Danny Dilweed. Whats the site addy of the Bwattle of Bwitain sim newsgroup so I can spam yer lameprettythang back?
BTW. Can you hover?
--Curly
[This message has been edited by Curly (edited 09-30-1999).]
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Danny? Is this a fishing trip?? Be honest (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Otto CO 111th Fighter Group ziggy2@home.com
111th Fighter Group www.cris.com/~ziggy2/ (http://www.cris.com/~ziggy2/)
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Hehe...umm Danny, the fire extinguisher is down the hall and to the right, I suggest you run (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Curly wrote:
Hey Danny Dilweed...
Man, You guys...No Mercy at all (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
ROTFLMAO!!
Papu "Pooh" Tafao
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Papu "pooh" Tafao
WB: VMF-214 "The Blacksheep" (MAG-11) www.tafao.com/vmf214 (http://www.tafao.com/vmf214)
[This message has been edited by Papu (edited 09-30-1999).]
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WTF?????
I thought the "Kill the walking" thread was full of dweebs, but this takes the cake.
Annoying Blackout/Redout?
What kind of flying have you done?
Airline flying?
A cargo plane full of rubber dog toejam outta hong kong?
Get a life, and do the sim community a favor and leave. You're obviously not cut out to play with the big boys, so head on back to the sandbox.
No blackouts....sheesh
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-Rebel 487th Lil' Bastards
System:
PIII 450
160mb 100mhz SDRAM
Diamond Monster MX300 (sound)
Diamond Viper V770 TNT2 Ultra 32mb (video)
(controls follow)
TM F-22 Pro (stick)
TM F-16 TQS (throttle)
TM Elite Pedals (rudder)
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Downtown wrote:
I was watching a special on The Learning Channel or Discovery Channel. It compared the U.S. Airforce and Russian Air Force.
Yes, I saw that too. The Luftwaffe have adopted the strategy, too, of testing possible AF candidates before recruiting them. I think the show said they had to stand 5G in a centrifuge without having been given any training or utilizing breathing or muscle exercises. If they don't pass they aren't even recruited.
The US, on the other hand, trains pilots for over a year (was it two?) before putting them to a G test. If they G-LOCed and weren't able to cut the mustard they were tossed... or relegated to flying dog sh*t out of Hong Kong. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) The West also put more emphasis on engineering (G-Suits, forced oxygen, monitors so the plane's software can figure out the pilot's state of consciousness) whereas the former Soviet Block countries had higher pilot conditioning requirements... all a matter of cost, I guess.
Amazing that during the reunification of Germany that the West suddenly owned a squadron of MiG-29 Fulcrums. Hello?!?! KA-CHIIING! How many Pentagon and Nato military brass were rubbing their hands with glee? Probably could have started a fire from the heat alone!
Check out this article at Combatsim about blackouts: http://www.combatsim.com/htm/may99/blackout.htm (http://www.combatsim.com/htm/may99/blackout.htm)
In the article the writer interviewed actual pilots who fly the F-16. They indicated that holding 6G or 7G turns was not even an issue and they they could even hold 9Gs for quite a while with no loss of vision (the article states a test pilot held 9Gs in a centrifuge for over a minute and it was stopped by a supervising doctor, not the pilot's LOC!). The key is preparation, proper technique and physical conditioning. Now, these pilots have the benefit of an inclined seat in the F-16, G-suits, forced oxygen and excellent physical conditioning. That obviously adds a lot of tolerance.
I don't mean to suggest that WWII pilots that were drafted had these sorts of benefits, but we should remember that they were trained for the purpose and should have been able to take more Gs than an unconditioned person… the minute you add breathing exercises and muscle straining it hugely bumps up tolerance. Obviously, they didn't have the know-how that we do today and a lot of these were just kids off the street, but still, it is a factor to remember.
Dynamite Danny might be a little extreme in wishing there were no black outs or red outs (yank and bank, boy!) but I think quite a few people have indicated that the black out onsets too quickly. This is still a very early Beta, so a lot of changes will be made: hopefully the reduction of G effects will be one of them (though I like the look of the tunnel vision very much!).
Cheers,
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phaetnAT
Aces High Alpha Tester
[This message has been edited by phaetn (edited 09-30-1999).]
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Reading "Baa Baa Black Sheep" and "The Flying Tigers" as well as several of the books written by AVG Pilots.
The all said that Gregory Boyington was a hell of a Pilot. Though everyone hated him.
He would flex his neck muscles, I think he said he blacked out once.
I would be nice if, as you went up in rank, or the longer your streak lasted, the harder it was to black/red out.
Of course we can all recall stories of Pitts pilots that could stand numerous and repeat G Forces, until they started sqeezing their brains out their nostrils.
How, and when do you model head implosion?
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"I could feel the 20MM Cannon impacting behind me so I made myself small behind the pilot armor" Charlie Bond AVG
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Yes as a matter of fact, I flew the T34 (a jet) in the airforce. I don't think I ever came close to blacking out. And we pulled some serious Gs. If you don't want to believe me, then don't. But there it is. I don't know how we would be able to have dogfights (though I was never in one) if we black out as often as I am seeing in these games. However, and lord knows why, when someone else is controlling the airplane, I seam to remember getting dizzy a lot quicker. It's just not somthing that stands out a lot in my flight experience. Just an observation, that is all.
I thought Aces High was a nice game. I really did. I read over my post, and came across a few places that may have been misinterpreted. I didn't mean to "spam" this newsgroup. I also didn't intend to step on any toes. Sorry if I did. I am just a guy who really enjoys flight sims, and wanted to see if anyone else on here had flown BOB, and would be willing to trade opinions. I sincerely apologize.
I like Aces High. I think it has all the features I enjoyed from WarBirds, and has enhanced the things I disliked. The graphics are superb, I love the tracers and the moving surfaces are great too. Im not quite confortable with the FM but I am sure that in time it will grow on me. I'll probably pay for it when the beta is over.
Again, I apologize. And I hope that there are no grudges. <S>alute.
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Danny. I thought about having a laugh at your expense with the post. But it is neither constructive nor warranted. So ill simply address the comparision.
I too fly every Combat flight sim that hits the shelves or the net. I flew Simguilds Flying Circus and the BOB Alpha test.
The BOB game is a good one. But it is nowhere on par with AH even in alpha form. Simguild is a company with a lot of promises and not a lot of anything else.
FC was a good example of this. We heard the hard luck stories of the company. We heard how this and that was going to happen cause they wanted our dollars and we paid and paid and paid.
Reality was we got nothing more than the original Beta game we flew way back when.
They claim so much will happen in BOB. new planes, exciting features etc. yet they are already working on a 3rd game im led to believe. FC has been left to stagnate and die on the withered sim vine. BOB is hardly in a position to compete with others of its age in its present state tho may if allowed to expand into the promised sim. But SG neither have the resources nor time to work on 2 games at once.
Its players pay for an uncomplete game which is already being superceeded by the next project. Hence the BOB guys I expect will get what the FC guys got.
SG doesnt claim to be a compny dedicated to realistic flight sim mechanics as many of us like to play. They make a damn good playable game. But its market is small. If left to go the way of FC then BOB will be relegated to the gene pool to break headlines in 5 years time as the one that should have been but wasnt even close.
If your going to pay hard cash. Pay for the survivor. You will be much happier in the long run.
All power to SG with their sim. But they dont listen. Their customer relations outside of Lawton USA is very poor and their customer base is a declining breed.
My 0.02 cents AUS.
SC-Sp00k
Skeleton Crew
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Dynamite Danny--
Last time I looked the T34 Mentor was a single engine PROPELLER driven aircraft designed in the '40s. Want to revise your story about flying jets in the Air Force? And if you were mistaken about the model you flew (were flown in?) and really were in a jet T37, T38, you were in an inclined seat with a g-suit most likely. Makes a hell of a difference in G-LOC tolerance pal.
Reminds me of a windbag-doofus who used to work here. Claimed he flew backseater in F/A-18s in the Navy. Pointed out that F/A-18s were single-seat fighter-bombers and got the typical horsepoop backing and filling, shuck&jive.
"Were they trainers?"..."Na, man, it was a secret type, ya knows, stealth plane"..."How many engines did it have"..."Man, I cain't tell ya dat, it am a secret". He really spoke in this manner.
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One comment here.
Don't judge other people so much guys.
If anyone wants to say something....let them...what harm does it do?
So...to all you who like to rag on others for making comments....THPtthTPTHthhtsss ss.
Hans.
FYI...I beleave the Navy uses ALOT of two seat FA-18s and not as trainers. They use them as ground attack planes. Being a dual attack and fighter plane looks good on paper...but in real life it isn't. Why do you think the Airforce uses two seat F-15s for example?
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Phaetn. I did some research awhile back on that F16 vs MiG 29 after the West Germans got their hands on them. Interestingly inspite of it all, during the mock fights between the two the consensus was the the MiG was superior. The funny thing is, these weren't the "top of the line" MiG's either, the Russians saved those for themselves (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I can't remember all the details, but I think it had alot to do with the West falling seriously behind in the SRM department to the Russians.
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Maybe he flew T34 tanks...we have them occasionally in Airwarrior...they just jump right up off the runway and zooooooooooom...there they go.
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FYYFF!!!
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lol Spook and all that coming from a man who doesnt even want to fork over any money to play a game, he simply wants to use the Warbirds shareware that the iOMagic boys worked hard on and make his own server for free so he can maybe sometimes fly in a arena with 32 people in it and full of lag.
The truth be known spook, when you start posting second hand information about something you have no idea on, it makes you look like a fool. SG doesnt reply to posts on message boards but they do however reply to every email. So Spook, go play your piroted version of Warbirds and have a good time, while we enjoy our time playing BoB and Aces High. Also you boys that created Aces High, great job, outclassed Air Warrior in my opinion. IMO, Aces High and BoB compare greatly together when it comes to a lag free enviroment, but(not being a WWII pilot) the Black outs and red outs do come extreme. Anybody got Chuck Yeagers phone number or email addy? hehe Guess we could ask the man himself. Once again guys, great game, but I do have one problem and that is the price that I have heard about. $30 a month, I'm not sure if that is a set price but it is a bit rich for me.
Maxamillion
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Kats - I've read the same thing. In a guns dogfight the Mig's are very good, with better climb and acceleration than the F-16 or F-18. But in large scale exercises, the F-16 or F-18 has wiped out the Mig-29 due to differences in BVR capabilities.
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This is quite depressing. My first visit to this forum, and I find a barrage of venomous arrogance and hostility directed at some poor guy who dares to get something half wrong, in the esteemed presence of so much obvious knowledge and experience. Looks to me like some of you could use a hard ride in a fast jet, it might knock some humility into you.
One of the few supportive ( if opposed in view ) posts was by a friend and squadmate, SC-Sp00k, and HE in turn caught some flak from someone else. A cycle of spitefulness, and for no apparent reason. I've been on this roundabout once or twice before - I was looking forward to a new and promising sim put together by the best in the business, but I forgot that what really makes a good arena is the people in it.
If this is a taste of the treatment that newbies and visitors can expect from the "locals", then this sim is doomed before it starts, no matter how good it is. And, btw, if you really were superior to someone ( LOL what the hell does THAT mean? ), I'd imagine you could handle them without resorting to hostility and ridicule.
One last thing - being a newbie here myself, I only just read the rules for this forum. I quote "You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is ... defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane..." Hmmmm looks like our naive friend may have broken one of those - maybe someone will cast the first really big stone and get him banned from posting.
Flame away, I've gone looking for adult company.
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Steve "1Shot" Ross
C.F.I.
Skeleton Crew Squadron.
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>>Flame away, I've gone looking for adult company<<
Actually 1shot, you hit it on the head dude.
The "Elitest Snob" routine is pretty sad, and completely unnecessary.
-Regards
Fester
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Well 1Shot if you can name one sim that does not contain spite, arrogance, and hostility toward newbies and other pilots, i'm all ears but until then we are free to express our opinions in a manner that is suitable for the public. Yes I agree they were a bit hard to Danny, he came in here expressing his opinion in a suitable manner(the best and nicest way possible) and he therefore mentioned another game that he flew where the flight model was fun and without redouts or blackouts. And myself, well after much consideration, the take offs could use a little of work, dont mind the redouts and black outs they just come on real easy. AH did a good job when it came to graphics, but when it comes to overall flight model and having a good time, my money is staying with AW3 and Battle of Britain.
Have a nice day gentlemen,
Maxamillion
(added: After flying for a while today, I got a better impression of the game. The flight model of the game just takes a little getting used to and it can be real fun. My above words were a first impression response. However when it comes to price, I for one cant really afford 30 a month (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) But the game does present a great challenge to a flight sim freak like myself.)
[This message has been edited by Max (edited 10-02-1999).]
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HTC's "Aces High" puts Simguilds "Battle of Britain" (hereafter refered to as BoB) in a totally differant leaque.
HTC has in two weeks done what SG couldn't for BoB in five months. (no updates to testers at all)
granted, SG's BoB is an Alpha test, almost strictly to test video things. (yes I'm an alpha tester for BoB.)
HTC's is now open beta. So the tweaks and perks are prolly closer to being done already.
HTC brings a lot more experience, and in my opinon, more dedication to their future customer base. They understand that when things are said to the public, that if they don't deliver, regardless of reasons, then the customers will go elsewhere. Something SG hasn't seemed to learn yet.
HTC has the added bonus of having a much wider and more experienced programming team, and probably, a lot more financial depth to sustain themselves.
There is a lot of potential in both BoB and AH.
HTC and AH, seem to be on the express track.
SG and BoB seems to be lost somewhere along the turnpike.
And on a differant note.
Max,, regarding your personal attack on SC-Sp00k, seems you got a lot of your information second hand also. To quote from your own post.... "...when you start posting second hand information about something you have no idea on, it makes you look like a fool..."
Mayhaps you should heed your own advice
'nuff said.
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GreyBeard
Flight Commander, Aces High
Skeleton Crew
[This message has been edited by SC-GreyBeard (edited 10-12-1999).]
[This message has been edited by SC-GreyBeard (edited 10-12-1999).]
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*yawn* New topic please.
-ta---
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Oh crud. Now the Skeleton Crew is here too.
I'm bound to be a lawn ornament for a longer time.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
'Lo SC.
And Max? Take Spooks word on FC, he knows that of which he speaks.
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Hi ya IceNine!!
Long time no see..
I'm sure that if ya pick the "RIGHT" side to fight for, you won't have to worry about being a lawn ornament because of us SC's (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
<S>
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GreyBeard
Flight Commander, Aces High
Skeleton Crew
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BOOT!!!!!!
[This message has been edited by SC-GreyBeard (edited 10-13-1999).]
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So far I'm impressed. Especially when comparing to some of the latest stuff on the market.
FWIW,
Good Hunting!
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WHERES THE GAME PLAY??????????????????
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Chester do you want an answere to that question. Or do you just want to continue squeaking because other people dont want to play by your rules?
HiTech
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Are the planes in BOB gonna shoot little ping pong balls, like the ones in Flying Circus, Simguilds other piece of silliness??
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Ayefriggenmen HiTech.
Cripes it's like listening a broken record.
--Westy
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I,sir,would like an answer.Perhaps because i tend to be abrupt in my postings,i may sound critical.Let me assure you that im not a fault finding person in the least.I am however a flight sim player who has been running sim software since 1980.The current state of boxed sims is generally very good.The sim community had a GREAT deal to do with this evolition.Gamers demand,gameplay,imerision,re-play value in the sim genre.The current crop of on-line sims dont deliver this.I realize this game experance is in its incepeancy.I dont really forsee on-line gaming staying as un-organized as it current state.I feel as much right to ask of you as is demanded of others.Please dont feel threated by critics.You cant truly evolove in any endevor without their input...weather it feels good or not.........By the way, i think you guys are doing a marvolus job so. far. And my posts tend to be short because of a horrible shortcomming which makes alphbet letters hard to reconize...this post took over an hour to write
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Chester,
What are you looking for in an online sim??
You want to be lead by the nose through some silly scripted missions?
You want to be force fed missions by some computer ai?
This sim has more going for it than ANY boxed sim!
Here you can organize your OWN missions, nobody tells you what to bomb, strafe, or who to shoot down.
Perhaps what you are missing is your own creativity to do things.
I have bombed factorys, strafed ack, escorted bombers to target, flown cap, fap and gone on patrol all on my own, I didnt need some ai guy briefing me on the days mission to do so.
That my friend is where the gameplay is!
If your sick of being disorganized then do somethin about it!! Form a squad and dish out orders and missions yourself.
If your sick of the low over the base furball then go someplace where its not happening!
Take off in a 17 from deep in your terratory, get it to 35k and bomb somethin!
Get with me if im online..hell, Ill give ya a mission!!
By the way, with the lack of gunners on the buffs, and the current (beta) state of the sim, not to mention lots of new guys just popping in to check out AH, dont you think most of us are enjoying the hell out of the furballs?? I sure am!
Give the sim some time to mature, and you will see some very organized squads doing things that will rival any boxed sim.
There will always be alot of guys that dont want to contribute to a squad, or anything else but a good ol furball and gettin their next kill. But there will be a core of players that are serious. These guys are what make things happen in an online sim like this one. Get with a good squad (once some get formed that is) and you will have plenty to accomplish and achieve.
We are in a state of war, Rooks, Bishops and the Knights. The battle has yet to begin in earnest. When it does im gonna be in the middle of it, enjoying every second.
Granger
[This message has been edited by Granger (edited 10-13-1999).]
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Apparently a lot of people here either don't remember or even know of a vaporware online sim called Tactical Aero Squadron (TAS), the person behind that farce sucked in a lot of us. He too claimed to be a exfighter jock AND that he owned a P-51.
Turns out neither was true, I didn't know it at the time but real exfighter jocks belong to a very exclusive club and claims to belonging to said club can be easily verified. (There's a bunch of 'em here at work).
It happened to the guy behind TAS and his house of cards fell shortly afterward.
So yeah, maybe when someone comes along with a post that is poorly worded, misspelled, and makes obviously inaccurate claims and observations and comes off sounding like some 13 year old refugee from Fighter Ace, he just might get toasted a bit.
Anyone making inflammatory or false statements on public internet forum is going to catch some heat, doing it in a specialized forum like AH is defiantly going to get someone singed.
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//=^.^=\\
I'm surrounded by idgits and mooks!
[This message has been edited by Tigger (edited 10-13-1999).]
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Aaaaaaah.
(basking in the hate)
dh
(feeling more 't home)
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Back to Dynamite Danny here for a tic,
I for one find it difficult to believe that he went through pilot training and they never discussed the possiblity of blackout/redouts during high G manuvers with him.
I find it difficult to belive because I used to go to the Airforce accademy all the time.
(My Daughter was born there, and my last knee surgery was there.)
I know that Blackouts/Redouts are something that the Plebes? (I forget what they call 1st Year Air Farce Academy Cadets (Zoomies?))
are trained and discuss much during their four year tenior at the Air Farce Academy.
I also know two F-16 pilots who said that it was quite easy to make yourself blackout in an F-16 because it was so easy to load and unload G Forces in the F-16. EVEN WITH THE G-SUITS.
I KNOW THAT PILOT TRAINEES IN T-38s WEAR G-SUITs WHEN FLYING.
If Danny Flew in a T-38 why does he think he was wearing the G-Suit?
I also know several people who got morale rides in F-15s, F-16s, A-6s, A-10s, F-4s, F-14s, and F-18s. They all said that they had breif lapse of conciousness while the pilots went through their acrobatics, and they all lost their lunch.
I worked hard while in the service to get awards and recognition, all because I wanted the MORALE RIDE. Though I never did win one.
I know that the Grunting, muscle tightening, Muscle Strain, Etc.. Techniques are BRIEFED TO ANYONE WHO IS GOING ON A MORALE RIDE.
I Know that the Blue Angels, Thunderbirds, Chilean Halcones, French, Canadian, Russian, British, Etc.. Etc... Pilots use those techniques to help resist blackouts during high G manuvers during their airshows.
EVEN IN MODERN DAY JET AIRCRAFT IT IS STILL POSSIBLE TO MAKE YOURSELF BLACKOUT!!!!!
How could you be at the contols of an aircraft and not have heard this? How could you have been in the Air Force and not have heard this? HOw? How? It baffles me, and I wasn't even in a flying carreer field?
P.S. There is an effect while parachuting called ground rush that creates a tunnel vision effect. I am told that the tunnel vison is similar to a G-Force Blackout, except that with Ground Rush there isn't a black edge, its more of a heat/fuzzy type distortion.
I don't reccomned you get to ground rush where you get the tunnel vision effect.
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"I could feel the 20MM Cannon impacting behind me so I made myself small behind the pilot armor" Charlie Bond AVG
[This message has been edited by Downtown (edited 10-14-1999).]
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Response to FowlWing
No,, the little ping pong balls are gone.. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
remember, that FC is only 2d, rather than 3d, and was a 1st attempt at a easily playable game. (which it is)
actually the graphics in BoB are excellant, and the way they've done the shells are exceedingly similair to what you see in AH.
As to flight modeling, I couldn't say since I know squat about that...
Ground strikes are really impressive, they even have the smoke trails over the wings as the guns fire.
Bits and peices fall off hit aircraft, and smoke trails are also very well done, from the black smoke of burning oil, to the whitish vapor of a fuel/radiator leak. The smoke effects are outstanding. I've seen a couple furballs that looked like old WW1 movies with all the smoke trails in the sky. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Aircraft are a bit easier to see at close range in BoB than in AH, though is is easy to lose them when viewed against the ground, which also looks a bit like AH's ground when yer really low. (without the sheep, LOL)
In my opinion, BoB will be an excellant game.
As good as AH so far??, who's to say at this point in time..
the current alpha is basically just a video platform test so there are very few frills.
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GreyBeard
Flight Commander, Aces High
Skeleton Crew
[This message has been edited by SC-GreyBeard (edited 10-14-1999).]
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greybeard.......nice to see ya again.......i think all this cross over bashing is hurting this game..........seems the thing here is to bash other companies as much as you can.....well that doesnt fly with me i love flying circus....it is an easy game to play(and there is play to it not just fly and kill), lets face it most ppl are not into real modeling in there games.....i would never get off the ground in most planes....and i dont think many of you would either........as far as ive seen this is a fine sim...but as chester said were is the game play????? all ive seen is alot of furballing at low levels.......and alot of people telling me how great this sim is and how every1 elses sims doesn't measure up to this one......... i was touting this game on the squad mgs board at F.C. and telling ppl to try it...... a game is only as good as the comunity of players that play it....and there are a lot of pilots on other sims that would be turned off from this game just by the msg. board...
so long
Brig.Gen.STING.94TH
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AND btw hitech said"Or do you just want to
continue squeaking because other people dont want to play by your rules?" to chester in his post.
What are the rules in this game......are there any??? I don't see much of a code of conduct within the pilots???
Do they have 1 and is it stated????
This seems to be a great game but it needs
people to give honest critisism our it will pass just like all the others before it...
and MAX wrote "Well 1Shot if you can name one sim that does not contain spite, arrogance, and hostility toward newbies and other pilots, i'm all ears" Max try F.C. new ppl are welcomes and made to feel right at home...and helped in many any way they need help in....Thier not treated as new meat...
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Brig.Gen.STING-94TH
"Cover your 6 or you might get stung"
[This message has been edited by Brig.Gen.STING-94TH (edited 10-14-1999).]
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Um <cough> GeNeRaL.
This is a _____ (wait for it)______ hold on....
.... beta.
A very early .......beta.
There is no gameplay yet. Not even sure what it is. But we don't obviously have it.
Yet.
So for right now I for one am enjoying the hell out of furballs. High. Low. One on many, many on one and many on many....
And when scenarios come along I'll be on the first bus to em.
So you, Chester and all the others asking, "where is the game play???" .... Well it's in the players hands right now and right now most folks are flying for fun, some are starting squadrons but most are trying to test the front end so the product can be developed.
<steps off soap box.....remnants>
Cod I gotta lose weight...
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 10-14-1999).]
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Where's the game play.
Games can fall into mutliple classes.
Aces High and most other online flight sims
fall into the same class as most sports.
Sport's games typicaly have fairly simple goals with extreamly complex tactics and stratagies of acheviing these goals.
An example of a sports game is basketball. The goal is simple , score more points than your oponent by putting the ball threw the hoop more than he does. The stratagy, skill, and tactics to achive this goal people spend there lives mastering.
Aces High like basketball has a very simple goal. Inflict more damage on your opponent then he does on you by either bombing his buildings or shooting him down.
Aces High like basketball requires a lot of time to just learn the skill of flying the plane proficently.
After one learns the fundameltals of flying and shooting he normaly advances into thinking how he can best uses these skills by use of tactic's. When do I boom and zoom, When the best time to break. Whats a lag turn or lead turn an so on.
Aces High also has stratagy. What plane is best to fly in a given situation. Is it better to go fly a bomber and first go pound all there ground targets so we can have an advatage later. Is it better to mix a group of fighters and bombers in strikes. When should we go on the defensive.
The other things that that most games like basketball have in common with Aces High is that its not a game with out other people involved. Unlike box games aces high can not be played by yourself ,it's the compatition and uniquness of each game / sortie that makes it fun and has kept people playing online sims for a lot of years.
It all comes down to all HTC does is make the court and the rules. Its the players who make the game fun and exciting.
HiTech
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>I don't see much of a code of conduct
>within the pilots???
Bahahaaaa. Oh gawd, not that again. ;>
My code of conduct is :
1. Leave no enemy alive
2. Leave no sheep unmolested. ;>
Now if they'd only get that damn ISDN line installed in my new apt.....
Wab
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Sting!! <S>
Bashing?? what bashing?
granted my 1st post wasn't exactly a true comparison as the thread implies so I returned and gave my honest response to a question by FowlWing. (see above)
I happen to like FC very much.
I also happen to LUV Aces High.
As to game play here. This is only 3rd week.
Believe me, in the 1st three weeks of FC, there wasn't much of an "unWritten Pilots Code" in FC either. Nor was there much in the way of gameplay. That did not develope till a lot later.
As to game play here? I'd dearly love to see some escorting of unarmed b-17's..and C-47's ('specially since I'm a bomber jock, and my death/survival - mission ratio really suks...)
Believe me, it will come in time,, as will the "Unwritten Code"
BTW,, Best of luck in the squad wars in FC this weekend,,, I won't be there to ref this time. <S>
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GreyBeard
Flight Commander, Aces High
Skeleton Crew
[This message has been edited by SC-GreyBeard (edited 10-15-1999).]
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HITECH,thank you for the responce. i do understand the basic of this and other on-line sims.....i ask you consider these points.............A game is defined as a conflict involving gains and losses between two or more opponents who follow formal rules....YOU acused me of try to ram rules down other throats..NEVER, on this or any board have i tried to expound a certin set of rules. BUT a GAME must have rules or it is not a GAME.Use your basketball example,remove the rules and ask yourself what you would end up with.In real life they are called Rules of Engagement.They are very clear.No combat pilot leaves the ground without firm understanding of them.But the point is without rules to govern game play,game play cannot exist.What does exist is a form of anarchy.Every player does whatever they want whenever they want.You are a smart guy.How long will something exist in an un-stable state?......Point 2....What about DEATH?...now i could ,as a disabled combat veteran,climb on a very high soapbox on this point,but wont. What i will ask is.If you are making an atempt at modeling a combat enviorment and you leave out one of the MAJOR factors for that enviorment what do you get?DEATH is the overwhelimg decision maker in combat.Missions and objectives are won,not from inclination,but training and disapline.The herd instinct is VERY strong in combat.Sure you could take your weapon an go JOHN WAYNEing for Charlie any night you wanted.Dont understand why that didnt happen.IN these on-line things, no death causes a lack of realistic behavior by the players. Thats where these things break-down.Thats one of the major factors to the total lack of a belivabilty in on-line sims(sims isnt right either is it?)You understand modling and simulation......PS. Guy i was not squeaking.I am a professional squeaker.(and if billable hrs. are any indication, a fairly good one) You will know when i start to squeak. I have only tried to get the players to form,by concenus,a set of guidelines to bring some order.I will contune.Many of us here have been around a lone time.On-line multiplayer gaming is new.It will evolve.Mabey. Or it will die.I have instrust in seeing evolution.
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Chester.
Just One Word.
Paragraphs.
Pls use them.
Gracias,
dh
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Hey Chester! I think I've got the "death" thing figured out. HiTech could maybe provide a "death signal" back to your computer that could be used to trigger an external relay through COM1 at the exact moment that you get blown into bits. Then you could weave some real fine copper wire into the fabric of your computer chair (just under your ass). Connect the end of this grid through a normally open relay contact and back to the nearest 115 Volt outlet. Next, wrap a copper strap around your neck and connect it to ground (any old copper pipe in your house should work nicely). Now just sit in the old chair, plug everything in....and FLY!
Next time you get killed, you should have a more satisfying "game play" experience.
Please, no thanks are necessary...I love helping make Game Play more real and immersive.
Your PAL,
DICK!
PS. Please advise on how to be paid for squeaking. My wife should have enough "billable hours" of squeaking accumulated since our wedding for the both of us to retire immediately. Thanks.
[This message has been edited by DICK! (edited 10-15-1999).]
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Chester you talking about Strategy in this game. Also remeber this is a BETA!!!.
All you other guys He a Veteran so give him a small break. He has the right to post his request here as we do.
I would like to see some sort of stratagy employed here such as supply trucks and trains would be nice. Would like to see computer controlled ground war that needs air support, this could be used to capture airfields. This wouldnt have to be to complicated but enough that we whould have to defend against them or loose our bases. Would like to see computer controlled bombers making bomb runs that need escort, these could be taken over by players as needed or as the player pleases. I believe this would stop some of the low level furballs and would bring a more historic feel to the game.
I think it would be fun to go an straffing runs against 2000 GI's and tanks or to go down in the canyon and take out a supply trian that is rushing to resupply a damaged field. Here is another new point the airfields would have to be resupplied by truck or trian and not just by time.
No w you want game play go to tower click on new button on clipboard called mission. Get mission assignment to go support resupply of base such and such, or fly escort for bombing run to field such and such. Points awarded for successful flight, or if you a bomber pilot have option to join or take over bomber in flight. Computer controls battle for each side and assigns misson to those who want them. those who want to fly at will still can. Some Germans did that.
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Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
My Homepage
indians Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/~tltoon)
Aces High Word6 and Wordpad Doc's available on my web site.
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Actually Chester has a really good point.
The problem is how can it be implemented without scaring away consumers? People won't pay to be penalized for having their own sort of fun.
Frankly, I get a big kick out of flying historically and realistically. But sometimes I just want to chase someone into a situation that I wouldn't dare risk in real life; the rush is getting out of it alive. If I am that way, how many others who aren't into the history want to just furball?
The answer has to based on the players themselves, not the game. If it was in the game it would attract only a small percentage of an already niche market: that would be financial suicide.
Instead, players with a historical bent organize scenarios and the like where it is a one life per frame event. These generate a lot of tension and people do fly in groups for protection and plan historically correct missions. Seeing unidentified dots in these conditions is[/i] scary and generally provokes historically correct encounters: i.e. only attack with advantage.
Remember on-line games are a product that has to be available 24/7 and has to appeal to a wide variety of playing styles. Penalties for unhistorical behaviour would make it not appealing enough for the general market and hinder the revenue stream. Aces High is still in an early Beta. Eventually more systems will be in place that will allow people to do more than they can now and things like scenarios will be available. Just hang tight. When this game goes pay for play you will see more historically minded people because they have to be willing to pay for the service; those who just want a free ride will go somewhere else.
In the meantime, if you want immersion, generate it yourself: fly what you consider realistically and hang out with other people who do the same.
Cheers,
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phaetnAT
Aces High Alpha Tester
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HORN,your ok with the spelling??
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Horn........ I don't know about you,butI'm not going to critisize someone who is a disabled Vet.on his paragrahing, after he explained he is disabled and has a prob. typing and posting,but wanted to air his views(I know chester personally. He's the one that turned me on to this beta).
Every sim I've flown and there are hundreds has had some set of rules. Hitect compared it this game to basketball.......Do they in basketball grab the ball, run down the court without dribbling and knock down anybody in thier way to score? I don't think so....... They have a set of rules and refs.
I do understand this is a beta, and a darn good one from what I've seen. But, it is far to unorganized. I think this is a prob.that the pilots themselves will have to work out....and from who I've seen on,pilots such as greybeard, I know it will eventually be taken care of...
B.T.W thanks greybeard on the luck for SQUAD WARS, the 94th was the only squad of 8 that paticapated that went UNDEFEATED.....round 2 should be exciting.
WESTLY ....Um <cough> GeNeRaL.This is a _____ (wait for it)______ hold on...... beta.
Buddy, you can make fun of my rank anytime you like too, but I am proud to be second in command of the 94th Aero Squadron on Flying Circus.....its an honor guy something I'm sure you wouldn't understand..
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Brig.Gen.STING-94TH
"Cover your 6 or you might get stung"
[This message has been edited by Brig.Gen.STING-94TH (edited 10-15-1999).]
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phaten,thanx. It is a problem,the bean counting thing,that must be considered. Comunity concenus,i belive is the way.Still do we want to establish open arena furballings as the baseline,de rigor,on-line sim experance.Or should it be the option to the "you are really the pilot,dont die"experance ?
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First off Chester I didn't accuse you of anything I asked a simple question which you answered and thus we got started with a constructive thread.
Anyway on to rules.
There are a lot of rules in Aces High most are transparently handled by the code, for instance vulching.
You can't vulch with out first destroying the ack.
No shooting friendlys.
Once you are out of ammo you can no longer kill someone.
These are only a few of the rules .
Anyway where we disagree is on some of the basic premisses of what the game should be.
My assumtion is you belive the game should be a WWII simulator. I do not belive that Aces High should be a WWII simulator,and it shows up in our description of what aces high is on our home page. Aces High primary purpose is an ACM simulator that uses WWII aircraft. At times AH will be used as a WWII simulator but this will be in senario base functions and other events.
DEATH:
Death is only a piece of the scoring mechinism of the game. Based on my statement above that we are not trying to recreate WWII
,death should view from a gameplay only perspective and how does one wish the game play to evolve.
There is one key element that is quite simple but a lot of people seem to forget. For a kill to be scored someone must die.
When you slant the game on the wanting to live side you will automaticly reduce the number of kills the average player gets. This is a simple game mechanism that can not be avoided.
From a game play view Kills are offense Deaths are defense. When you put to much wieght on deaths you end up making a totaly defensive game. Games MUST be balanced between offense and defense or you end up not having a game. Ive seen the consiquences of making death to much of a penaltity and what happens is players spend hours trying to find one fight. Death as it stands now does have consiquences and more will be added in the future. But care must always be taken to balance Kills v Deaths.
HiTech
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Does anyone else smile quietly to themselves when someone starts spoutin off about "realism" - and site as their credentials years of flight sim flying?
Real life is not ever, at least for a long long time anyway, going to be found inside anyone's computer. But fun games sure are. People like fun games, people pay money to play em, especially the really fun ones.
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I dunno Zanth, I get "REAL" mad at my computer when it locks up!
DICK!
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HITECH,once again thank you for your reply.I know time is of great value to you at this point.To spend some engaging an anonomus poster shows me something.thanx......I dont atempt to get you to alter what your doing.I doubt HTC's business plan has a "we will figer it out as we go entry".At the same time i doubt this will be your last go at game design....." When you find something that works,make a lot of it", has long drivin the marketplace.WARBIRDS,i relize,is held as the "gold ring of this genre.I belive their sucess has much to to with placement,and demographics.It certanly isnt because of value............The internet is growing expotentialy.The demographics of on-line gaming will change with its growth.(the U.S.government projects internet entertainment earnings to surpass that of Hollywood in the year 2000)This expansion in the marketplace will cause great changes to gaming.The "point and shoot"style of gaming may have to give way."Forced co-operation,persistint enviorment"type play is making headway.It will be interesting to watch on-line gaming evolve.I dont envoy your position,but do admire your moxie.........It's only through hard work and heartache,by you and others in your industry,that this old man even has venue to express opinion.........That is respected,and valued.
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Chester,
Please hit the <enter> key every 4-5 lines. Until you do most wont read your posts. Fighting thru a wall of text is unpleasent. And someone help STUNG with his knot, he's wrapped too tight! If you think a sim should offer more, offer constructive comments. If you want a sim to follow your rules, learn to code. Enjoy what we have, it's gonna get better and better.
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I believe it would be a bad stratergy to make a game which can only be playable under strict rules of engagement in order to make players fly in a certain manner as it would alienate a fair proportion of a smallish user base.
I do though believe arena play would be more enjoyable, for me at least, if there was *less* (not no) low alt furballing and people flew much more in formations of a few planes (i believe helping players to do this would have several positive effects).
I think a system that let players fly with other planes when they wanted to with little organization but yet still let people have total freedom to do what they want without being penalised would be perfect.
P.S. i don't believe high death penalties is productive or realistic. Pilots were afraid of dying but a mission was always flown as to the objectives set out not only if we outnumber the enemy.
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BRAZOS,you mean follow the "RULES" of grammer.