Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Zippatuh on March 31, 2004, 07:25:56 AM
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So, let’s hear it, if HT opened another arena that was a $30 subscription access only. Would you do it? I’m pretty much sure I would.
Getting really tired of the “be the steamroller or be rolled”, no one wants to fight anymore. The rule of thumb today is, do I have 5 friendlies to back me, and I do. Whew ok then, here I go.
I’m up increasingly less and the quality of fights has really seemed to drop off. I would love the days where there was a max of 200 on any given night. Seemed like everyone was more willing to engage and the fights were better; these days it might as well be a first person shooter with aimbot.
Grow some nads people. Learn some ACM, engage! Do something. Fester MA is great but the steamroller lives on. With nearly 600 online last night it was difficult at best to find a quality area to fly in.
I was on for about 1 hour 15 minutes. About 30 minutes of it was worth a damn.
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I dont like being the steam roller.
I dont like being the steam rolled.
Kinda struggling to fit in at all of late.
Nobody seems to want to defend a base, if they see an attack coming its cya and off to another part of the map.
So of course somebody shouts vulch lamp is on at xxx field and the horde decends.
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HT needs to model ground troops that you can play, so we get less AC´s in the air...
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No i wouldnt do it. Im not rich enough to afford $30 bucks for a game, ill settle with the steamrollers, i find those fights a little more challenging than the occasional 1 vs 1, if i wanted 1 vs 1 i would hit the DA.
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fixed rate price is the way to go, more people in an arena at a lower price admission is superior for the experience of the individual player than a high admission price with fewer players.
theres somthing that seems more like a real battle when you have 500 people fighting eachother in an arena.
its somthing that no offline game or 32 player arena game i have played can duplicate. in those games theres no sense or feelign that there is a war going on around you and beyond your current field of view many other battles are being fought. there is a fog of war with all thats going on and many surprises.
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Fly mornings! Get up an hour early before work. You'll find 125 - 200 online. Connects are smooth & rock solid.
Plus the morning crew has a pretty good bunch of guys.
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Originally posted by Ghosth
Plus the morning crew has a pretty good bunch of guys.
Thats when the Italians/Japanese, etc.. Log in, and their always a treat to fight.. Unexpecting players and their not bad at all.
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So rich people don't participate in "steamrolling"?
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as long as it doesn't go hourly..i'd pay up to $20/m.
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My opinion is steamroller mindset can be fixed without price changes :)
..
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Originally posted by Ghosth
Fly mornings! Get up an hour early before work. You'll find 125 - 200 online. Connects are smooth & rock solid.
Plus the morning crew has a pretty good bunch of guys.
what ghosth said pizzahut
our prime time ( aussie time) usually has 100-200
good mix of euros asian aust nz and usa guys
when i log on in US prime time the difference is amazing - and not so good.
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I agree that the steamrollering has gotten out of hand but the only way you win any battle is to overwhelm the enemy.
OK so i've been hammered too many times trying to up at a field that was being vulched. So what? Last night the rooks had the airfield near our HQ. There were maybe six of us raiding that base, and you know what? We were evenly matched, and having a blast. I even got into a bomber v. bomber fight. It was great!
What people seem to lose sight of is that you sometimes have to fly to a battle rather than just up at a field that's under or adjacent to a swarm of red.
When i get sick of getting rolled i up at base near an undefended front and generally make a nuisance of myself until someone on the other side notices me - presto-change-o a new front and some air-to-air combat. You get perks for wrecking a field, town or strat in the mean-time.
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htc should limit the # of planes that can up from one base...it worked in aw3.
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I wouldn't want to pay anymore. As it is now its anoying that I spend 15 bucks a month and the fights are what you explained.
Could you imagine paying 30 a month and still have the same lame fights etc. I would drop the game in a heart beat.
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I would have the same fears as mars01...pay more and have the same thing happen.
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Originally posted by SirLoin
htc should limit the # of planes that can up from one base...it worked in aw3.
Actually there were numerous occasions when the “zones” hindered a country’s ability to defend its front-line bases. If your entire front was under attack the zones forced you to up from rear fields—which also quickly became “full” zones. Thus if you were being steam rolled the zones actually hindered the defenders ability to put up similar numbers to the enemy
In addition the zones pushed the fight to 30K and above as the zones forced people to come from further and further bases to the “fight.”
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I don't think that having a $30.00 Arena would fix it, though I do agree that the game isn't what it used to be.
I got fed up and railed against it online a few weeks ago. Just got mocked though. Seems most people are fine with it as it is now.
I do miss the balanced air-to-air fights though. Oh, I know they never were the most common kind of fight, but I can't recall the last time that I wasn't a ganger or gangee.
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I would pay the extra money to get better fights. The game has really lost some appeal due to the steamroller. Ive resorted to upping ackstar b17s just for something different. I rarely find a pilot that gives me a good long fight without his buds or mine ruining it. I still have alot of fun..but the arcade mentality is getting out of control...Wish there was an arena where only players with an established number of points, or rank based, or k/d ratio....could log in and have skilled pilots fight each other. :) See u all from my tailgun sight...990000 u form a b17 squad yet? :P
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Zip, I'd have to agree. I'm not sure upping the ante would change much.
I think we have to ask "why". Why is steamrollering the mode of gameplay. I'd say it has to do with the way the game is structured and the "goals". Perhaps it's better said as "what does the game reward"?
Presently, AH rewards field capture by awarding the "reset" and the "perk points" that are tossed out like a tiny milkbone to the winning side.
Now, while many folks ignore reset and ignore perks, it's obvious that the overwhelming majority has bought into the system.
I mean what happens in a reset? Uh.... the game starts over in about 2 seconds. Other than some meaningless chest-thumping on Channel 1, what has really been achieved?
Perk Points? Who really cares? How many are just heartbroken when they don't have enough perks for a Tempest? Jeez, they could take the perk planes out of the game and for guys like me, it would go unnoticed.
Rather than price, I think some re-evaluation of goals and gameplay with subsequent changes would be required.
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It's not just the strat. Look at a furball for example. You get maybe 20% of the pilots in the middle with even numbers, 5% venturing into the void and 75% staying back in hopes of being one of the 10 to get an assist on the 5% that ventured in. It's not perk point driven, it's not strat driven, it's just people prefering the easy kill vs the even matchup.
MiniD
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Yeah Mini,
But its your choice as to where you want to fight and you can always find one either in, on top of, or at the edge of the furball.
At least you can find people that want to fight, which is lacking when the steamroll and vulch crowd get to a base.
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It's not just the strat. Look at a furball for example. You get maybe 20% of the pilots in the middle with even numbers, 5% venturing into the void and 75% staying back in hopes of being one of the 10 to get an assist on the 5% that ventured in. It's not perk point driven, it's not strat driven, it's just people prefering the easy kill vs the even matchup.
It always reminds me of that scene from 2001: A Space Odyssey where the two groups of pre-human monkeys are standing on each side of the stream beating their chests and making all the noise - but afraid to actually cross and get it on.
Charon
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You can fight at the edge of the steamroll, above it, or wherever too. That's the benifit of not really caring about what you're doing... you can do it anywhere. Hell, vulching vulchers is almost as fun as vulching aircraft on the runway. Besides, hanging above a fight is not looking for one. It's looking for hapless victims. It's pretty hard to bag on vulching while promoting cherry picking. Both are just people looking for a distinct advantage.
Besides, if there's a steamroll, it's usually only hitting one base. You can find another where it's not occuring. Basically, you can still chose what type of fight you're looking for and find it. No matter where you go, however, you have to rely on someone else looking for the same thing.
MiniD
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In my personal opinion the current state of affairs is fairly realistic. It fairly accurately reflects the flavor of engagements that actually took place in WW2. For the most part engagements were between large flights (16 man +) and even multiple squadrons engaging other multiple squadrons. Large, organized air offensives were run several times a day and included fighter sweeps and various types of interdiction missions the goal of which was to draw the enemy into a fight in one place while overwhelming them in another. In fact, the allies had an elaborate system of deception whereby they would confuse the German radar and observers with multi-pronged thrusts some being feints while others were legitimate attacks.
Thrusting the enemy into a situation where local, static defense becomes futile is a valid strategic goal of air combat. History has proven that deploying air power in a purely defensive role is not effective. The steamroll or be steamrolled phenomena is just the extreme manifestation of this truism of strategic air war. From a fighter pilots persepctive, the multiple strata of the typical many vs. many engagements prevalent in the MA today is tactically complex and very interesting to negotiate from a tactical point of view, moreso than any 1 vs. 1 encounter. To be successfull in a sector crowded with friendly and enemy on multiple levels requires alot of finesse and a surgical approach to combat tactics, something the actual participants in the WW2 air conflict could appreciate.
Zazen
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what i would like to see ended is spit v spit .. p51Vp51 fights... lets fight for a team who have a certain plane set..
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I'm not talking about what passes for strat. I'm talking about what passes for "the object of the game".
In beta, which I believe was the most fun for me, what was the object of the game? Well, primarily it was to find someone and fight him.
No real "glorious" resets per se, no new map.. we only had one map, no Perk Points to fly Perk Planes. Nah, for most people it was long on and fight. It was great fun.
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30 bucks would get you into the “premium” arena as well as all of the others, classic and AHII. If you continue to pay the $15, fine, you get classic and AHII, but not the premium arena.
Trying to pass the steamroller off as “historical reenactment” is just a crutch. Hit the arcade and whack gofers. I want to knife fight and those seem to be getting pretty far and few between.
The best of the night was defending a base. It really wasn’t that hard. The land laid a certain way that forced everyone to a certain point and the distance was far enough that most were coming in at 15-20K. It was decent until the attack was fended off long enough for my country mates to get some air. Then to my surprise, not only did they get some air, but someone called in the steamroller. Before I knew it, we were vulching.
I think the $30 would thin the crowd out. I’m looking for some quality now. There doesn’t seem to be much of that anymore. Or at least it’s been watered down pretty good. Maybe there is some and it all has to do with numbers. Regardless it’s harder to find a stand up fight now than it was.
If my arse is going to be handed to me I’d like to throw a salute someone’s way along with the hart thumping that I used to get. I realize now that I am, and have been for awhile, shooting fish in a barrel, or being one of the fish.
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You can fight at the edge of the steamroll, above it, or wherever too. That's the benifit of not really caring about what you're doing... you can do it anywhere. Hell, vulching vulchers is almost as fun as vulching aircraft on the runway. Besides, hanging above a fight is not looking for one.
I disagree, the streamrollers run like dogs and don't usually fight. The furballers will engage you and fight. That was my point.
It's looking for hapless victims. It's pretty hard to bag on vulching while promoting cherry picking. Both are just people looking for a distinct advantage.
LOL, you would take what I said as promoting cherry picking. All that I pointed out was there are plenty of places to find a fight around a furball.
Besides, if there's a steamroll, it's usually only hitting one base. You can find another where it's not occuring. Basically, you can still chose what type of fight you're looking for and find it. No matter where you go, however, you have to rely on someone else looking for the same thing.
I don't mind the steam rollers, I hate the runners. I can handle my own in a multiple on 1 engagement so I enjoy the challenge, plus if I end up on a woos runners tail there are always more cons close by.
I agree with Zip tho the guys that fly safe and don't engage are ruining this game for me as well and they wast too much time not engaging.
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Originally posted by Toad
Perk Points? Who really cares? How many are just heartbroken when they don't have enough perks for a Tempest? Jeez, they could take the perk planes out of the game and for guys like me, it would go unnoticed.
Erm... in one tour, not so many moons ago, the CHog was your #4 plane (Easymode P51 and LA7 were your #3 & #5). So maybe you WOULD notice if perk planes disappeared! :lol:aok
Muhahahaha Mr. Toad! Just pulling your pisser. :D;):cool:
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Yeah beet but he flies these planes at 5k or below:aok
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Originally posted by mars01
Yeah beet but he flies these planes at 5k or below:aok
That's half of the problem!
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Let me find that tour and see what was up. There's always a reason why Beet provides incomplete stats.
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I'd like to see how easy mode you think those planes are under 5k.;)
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Wow... hard to argue with glorious notions of furballers vs strat guys. Nah... furballers don't run right back to numbers. What was I thinking?
And object of the game toad? It's hard to argue that furballing has any particular object, though you're just as likely to find this type of behavior in most if not all furballs. People would rather fight in relative safety. Objective of the game has little to do with it.
MiniD
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I cant believe I am saying this...but Zazen nailed it. IMHO the arena now better represents the way WW2 combat really was. This is now an arena where most any type of fight can be found. The German aces were masters of cherrypicking. And the Allies were more concerned with team tactics. Both are elements that I personally strive for.
Some of the old hands may need to adapt to the new situation. It isnt going to be the short flight to an equal enemy 1v1. All of those complaining have probably got years of flight sim experience, great SA and ACM skills. The challenge is less now for you except for the rare brush with an equal opponent. The new players here have the same learning curve we all had, it takes time. As the new players advance there skills, fights will become more interesting.
I say NO to a premium hike...lets keep costs down as low as possible!!
RHIN0
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Ah, OK, that was tour 44, Sept '03.
Let's see, statman, how did it really play out?
61 Kills, 30 Deaths. Hmmmm.. didn't play much did I?
#3 Plane, P-51, 18% of those kills.
#4 Plane, F4U-1C, 13% of those kills.
#5 Plane, La-7, 5% of those kills.
Total kills in Perk Planes, 13%.
So, yeah, it's safe to say I wouldn't notice.
As far as easymode planes, the P-51 and La-7 do have their advantages when flown as you would fly them.
Take them into a whirling swirling low furball and stick in there and tell me what you think then. Post your famous films then.
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Originally posted by Ghosth
Fly mornings! Get up an hour early before work. You'll find 125 - 200 online. Connects are smooth & rock solid.
Plus the morning crew has a pretty good bunch of guys.
:aok
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Mini, you digress.
My thesis was that the steamrolling Zip finds abhorrent stems from the present "goal" of the game which is capture enough bases to win the reset and earn your Perk Points.
Care to address that?
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Seems "the lack of people willing to fight" was the main point toad. As in "no one wants to fight anymore". There just seems to be a certain crowd or two that only thinks this only applies to the other guys.
MiniD
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I sence another high jacking...:rolleyes:
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Seems "the lack of people willing to fight" was the main point toad. As in "no one wants to fight anymore". There just seems to be a certain crowd or two that only thinks this only applies to the other guys.
Yeah and you are trying to say people that furball don't want to fight anymore either. I find that strange since the reason to furball is to fight.
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That's what you'd think eh?
But you said it yourself... 5:1. Where do most of the people in a furball hang out? Where the numbers are even or in the back?
MiniD
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Originally posted by Zippatuh
Getting really tired of the “be the steamroller or be rolled”, no one wants to fight anymore. The rule of thumb today is, do I have 5 friendlies to back me, and I do. Whew ok then, here I go.
Hmmmm. When I read that what I get is that Zip is really tired of the "be the steamroller or be rolled" aspect.
Thus my thesis, that the steamroller.... the thing Zip is getting really tired of.... is caused by the game goal of taking bases to win the reset and win the perk points.
Care to address that yet? What do YOU think causes the steamroller approach?
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I know what you read toad. You probably missed that "couldn't find a fight on the fest map" part all together.
Do you suppose this is because there weren't any furballs? There weren't any furballers? What?
Nah... it must be because only strat guys were playing that night. Not the noble furballers that just want even number matchups and fair fights. You know... those guys.
Either you're going to have to admit that nobody really likes to furball or that furballs are just as susceptable to the same behavior you see everywhere else. Either way... you have been wrong on one of two counts quite a bit for the last year.
MiniD
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That's what you'd think eh?
If thats not what you are saying then what are you saying?
But you said it yourself... 5:1.
5 to 1 what, again what are you saying?
Where do most of the people in a furball hang out? Where the numbers are even or in the back?
Where would you like em to hang out. The whole point of entering a furball is to fight. The whole point of the start game is to drop bombs and troops, the fact that strat guys may see some nme fighters is ancillary to that goal.
It's not perk point driven, it's not strat driven, it's just people prefering the easy kill vs the even matchup.
If you want easy kills the last place you are going to go is a furball.
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Sorry mars... you 13th guys all sound the same and use the same avatar.
The glorious notion that a furball is some kind of even fight is pretty damn funny. It's a few people so bored they press the fight with 5 others combined with a group that won't engage anyone that isn't fixated on another target combined with the main group jumps any one con simultaneously that manages to deviate from the first two parts.
Furballing is every bit the "avoid the fight" scenario you see anywhere else. It's just fun to pretend it's different.
MiniD
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LOL,
You are entitled to your opinion, you know they are like prettythangholes :D everyones got one.
I could care less if a furball is even, but I will take those that want to furball over those that want to pound the strat. Because no matter what, the ones that come out to the furball are looking for a fight with another pilot rather than a toolshed.
I do agree that there are oportunists in both camps.
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You want some good fights? The areana your looking for already exists... its called the CT. Try it you may like it, I'm starting to fly much more of my online time in there.:aok
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Originally posted by VWE
You want some good fights? The areana your looking for already exists... its called the CT. Try it you may like it, I'm starting to fly much more of my online time in there.:aok
But NO!! CT has a limited plane set, we want to fly whatever we want, when we want it, and how we want !!
:rolleyes:
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Well, MiniD, I'll take that as "No, I don't want to address your thesis Toad. I'd rather just ignore your main point and talk about furballs."
:lol
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1 i dont have the money to pay 30$ a month
2 a new area for high bidders would flop no one would go there
3 you have a DA
4 this is just like WW2 dogfighting with the cherry picking and such
5 i like cherry picking people at 550mph in my me262
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Mr. Toad! Sure, F4U/P47 @3K... just as they were meant to be flown!
:):aok
:lol
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Well Beet, some folks find it exciting to drive London Taxis at extremely safe speeds on well maintained roads.
Then others see that Taxi as something to drive extremely fast in perilous conditions.
You have your fun, I'll have mine.
:p
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No more commentary on the Tour 44 stats? Did your attempt to skew them turn out the way you wished?
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Originally posted by mars01
I don't mind the steam rollers, I hate the runners. I can handle my own in a multiple on 1 engagement so I enjoy the challenge, plus if I end up on a woos runners tail there are always more cons close by.
I agree with Zip tho the guys that fly safe and don't engage are ruining this game for me as well and they wast too much time not engaging.
Mars01, you fly a Spitfire almost exclusively, your plane can outturn almost anything, especially in the hands of a capable pilot, but can outrun nothing. It's just common sense that anyone in a plane that cannot outturn you is going to want to keep you at arms length. Your plane is very slow, giving your opponent the disengage option at any point if he so chooses.
Try flying a speed plane for a few camps, you'll LOVE runners. Runners are easy kills if you too are in a fast plane. Ask Shane why he originally started flying the LA7....Runners to a speed plane are as easy meat as a Jug trying to turnfight your spitfire, it's all just a matter of the subjective perspective of the dichotomous styles.
Zazen
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Jaxxo you leave my sqaud members alone you hear? I spent a lot of time and trouble to get 999 to land at a knight base with out some dweeborama killing him in the process so I could pick him up in an M3 full of cookies. On the other hand If we form a bomber wing your more than welcome to join:D
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Originally posted by Toad
Well, MiniD, I'll take that as "No, I don't want to address your thesis Toad. I'd rather just ignore your main point and talk about furballs."
:lol
Actually... you'd be just as wrong as you have been for the last year toad.
It boils down to "you have no main point if you feel furballs (which you have repeatedly claimed are the glorious absense of strat) are somehow different than any other type of fight in the way people behave. Because they don't care about strat does not mean they don't care about getting shot down."
There is alot of timidity in the MA these days. It reminds me of the CT.
You guys can pretend it's a result of the strat all you want if that's what makes the pill go down easier. The simple truth is that 90% of the people playing AH are just looking for some kind of advantage.
MiniD
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Nice Dodge, Mini.
Now, to what do you attribute the prevalence "steamroller" play in the MA?
I said it was the reset/perk points goal.
What do you think it is?
Or will you fail to answer a simple question like that one more time?
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Originally posted by Toad
Nice Dodge, Mini.
Now, to what do you attribute the prevalence "steamroller" play in the MA?
I answered it. You just pretend I didn't:
"The simple truth is that 90% of the people playing AH are just looking for some kind of advantage."
Most find it in hords, they always have. Remember how moving fields closer was supposed to solve this? It didn't. Now, the hords just vulch fields, or capture them. Some pretend this is because of strats while ignoring the fact that this has all been made easier with the recent map addition.
The horde hits the furball. The horde attacks bases. The horde is where people can survive. The hang there.
Of course, people also survive by hanging out high above fights and only engaging with an advantage. They also survive by not playing into another plane's advantages. They also survive by hanging out in their own ack. But... that's not really what we're talking about here now is it? Cause that would kick out a few of the main *****ers in this thread.
People are looking for an advantage. They get that with numbers. Whether it's in a furball or in a base attack... the guys that come in with numbers are going to win the fight.
MiniD
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Well Zazen,
I fly the spit lot, mostly because it's a good warm up and mostly because I look for the biggest red dar bar and head strait for it. Other times im upping in the face of the horde so there is really little choice in the matter.
I also fly the LA7 alot when I get tired of the runners as well as the F4Us and 190s. If you do the due dilligence you'll notice I fly alot of different planes.
I don't mind people extending and mixing it up. It's the out and out runners not the arms lengthers. I have killed many a spit in an LA7 and F4U not only staying at arms length but also turning with them.
I have also killed your runners, they are the most boring kill going. Yeah its kinda neat the first two or three times... Meet a coalt or higher boge in a F4U or 190, make a pass or two, get on his six, nme dives for deck and runs, I chase and close and kill him. After the 3rd or fourth time I'm bored to tears.
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Most find it in hords, they always have. Remember how moving fields closer was supposed to solve this?
Mini moving the field close was not an attempt to stop the hordes. It was an attemp to reduce the flight time to the fight and mitigate the fuel re-supply/pork imbalance. Two things which it did very well.
It also has helped defend against the hord by allowing the defense to come from a base in the same sector, thus getting to the horded field before its too late.
I agree the timidity of the players in the MA is a result of those who fly cautiously and always have to have an advantage as well as those who fly for no other reason but to kill strat.
Can the first kind be found in a furball yes, but to say the furballs are as timid as chasing strat or cherry pickers is incorrect.
Of course, people also survive by hanging out high above fights and only engaging with an advantage. They also survive by not playing into another plane's advantages. They also survive by hanging out in their own ack. But... that's not really what we're talking about here now is it? Cause that would kick out a few of the main *****ers in this thread.
Dude you either gotta lay off the boose or lay on the boose I'm not quite sure yet. lol:D
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Would hate to see approval of attempts to control gameplay by raising prices. Rather insulting to lots of good players who find challenge enough in the present $15 a month.
Raise the price high enough and there wouldn't be any need for this bulletin board -- all four players could negotiate in person.
Even then, perfect conformance to rules explicit or implied would be unlikely. Chances are there still would be one furballer, one vulcher, one kamikaze, and one field marshal.
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Originally posted by Toad
No more commentary on the Tour 44 stats? Did your attempt to skew them turn out the way you wished?
Observation made public, chain yanked - no skewing required!
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Looks more like you wanking than yanking. But that's nothing new.
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OK, Mini, so you're going with:
"The simple truth is that 90% of the people playing AH are just looking for some kind of advantage."
as the reason for steamroller tactics.
OK. Now tell me....... why wasn't this tactic/gameplay prevalent in AH from the very beginning? It's a relatively "new" thing when you look at the overall age of the game.
As for the rest, Mars addressed most of it so there's no need for me to chime in.
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Originally posted by mars01
Well Zazen,
I fly the spit lot, mostly because it's a good warm up and mostly because I look for the biggest red dar bar and head strait for it. Other times im upping in the face of the horde so there is really little choice in the matter.
I also fly the LA7 alot when I get tired of the runners as well as the F4Us and 190s. If you do the due dilligence you'll notice I fly alot of different planes.
I don't mind people extending and mixing it up. It's the out and out runners not the arms lengthers. I have killed many a spit in an LA7 and F4U not only staying at arms length but also turning with them.
I have also killed your runners, they are the most boring kill going. Yeah its kinda neat the first two or three times... Meet a coalt or higher boge in a F4U or 190, make a pass or two, get on his six, nme dives for deck and runs, I chase and close and kill him. After the 3rd or fourth time I'm bored to tears.
I never said it was especially difficult, of course it's easy. If runners bother you that much, fly a faster plane than the Spit5.
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Originally posted by Mr. Toad
Well Beet, some folks find it exciting to drive London Taxis at extremely safe speeds on well maintained roads.
Then others see that Taxi as something to drive extremely fast in perilous conditions.
That could have been summed up in three words: Dying is cool! :cool: I can just imagine the squad attire - replete with turban and explosives belt! :rofl
I was shocked by your "wanking" remark! :eek: Very untoadlike.
Hehe, it's funny how the TAS squad should be the very people to champion the freedom of choice enjoyed by the AH populace in terms of planes, playing styles etc. with the "Fly what you like, like what you fly" mantra. And yet, here we have a thread written by a TASer, lamenting the state of gameplay in the MA, and with several other TAS guys throwing their hats into the ring and whining about the way so many people spend their $14.95 while refusing to conform to the TAS rules of the air. Face it guys - the steamrollvulchers are never going to fly *your* way! I wish I could offer some crumb of comfort. It pains me to see you all sharing the same soggy handkerchief. :lol
But wait. Maybe I can. Do a search for threads containing "generalissimo". I'm sure you'll find within those threads a wealth of advice on how to deal with the deplorable state of affairs whereby 90% of people in the arena just won't fly your way, this being the advice meted out to me when I expressed concern at the state of AH gameplay many moons ago.
What goes around comes around, eh? :D:lol
pwn3d! (http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/jester.gif)
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I never said it was especially difficult, of course it's easy. If runners bother you that much, fly a faster plane than the Spit5.
Its not the spitV that's the problem, it's the fly cautiously, always have to have an advantage, once the advantage is blown run for their life tactics that make this game very boring.
This is a fighter combat game, its ok to die, its ok to not fly so safe and take a few chances to make it fun.
Who knows if the runners fought it out they might learn something about ACM.
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here here thats what i said in my ground pounders post
any ways had a good fight last night even though yes 75% of my play time was bullXXXX was trying to protect a base from one lone spit and got shot down 5 time before i barely left the deck finnaly the spit rtb to collect his kills so i chased him in a la7 and that spit (i think his name was skynomb) or something like that? duke and dodged me for over a half and hour until he finnaly made it back to his home base and the ack shot me down and added another kill to skynombs score, so i take my hat off to you skynomb, but watch your back im still gunning for you.:mad:
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duke and dodged me for over a half and hour until he finnaly made it back to his home base and the ack shot me down and added another kill to skynombs score, so i take my hat off to you skynomb, but watch your back im still gunning for you.
Unbelieveable - So your hats off to a guy that could only vulch you and didn't have the balls to fight you. I only hope he was out of gas or bullets otherwise that is just plain poor and exactly the kind of player we are discussing.
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Hehe, it's funny how the TAS squad should be the very people to champion the freedom of choice enjoyed by the AH populace in terms of planes, playing styles etc. with the "Fly what you like, like what you fly" mantra. And yet, here we have a thread written by a TASer, lamenting the state of gameplay in the MA, and with several other TAS guys throwing their hats into the ring and whining about the way so many people spend their $14.95 while refusing to conform to the TAS rules of the air. Face it guys - the steamrollvulchers are never going to fly *your* way! I wish I could offer some crumb of comfort. It pains me to see you all sharing the same soggy handkerchief.
Beetle you would want people to choose not to fight, then you could get all the undefended bases your little heart desires.
Yes Zip mentioned he has tired of the Steamrollers, but if you notice the majority of his statement deals with his tiring of the timid types like yourself, who always need and advantage and don’t like interlopers breaking up their attack of completely undefended bases. The ones that don't want to fight and would rather run. It makes all the sense in the world that you defend this type of game play. This is how you play.
When you speak of choice, the choices we have discussed in the past, they were between being able to furball vs being able to blow up tool sheds. No we do not want to restrict the choice of the tool shedders like some maps have removed the choice to furball.
Once again your vain, hollow attempt to sleight the TAS is riddled with holes and only shows your true ignorance.
And the only thing that is and keeps coming around is the smell of your BS:D
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Mars01,
I think you ought to substantiate your BS with a few facts. You're very fond of running a commentary on MY choice of how I spend $14.95 each month. And yet we've only ever encountered eachother... once. So unless you can post some films depicting my timidity, I would get off that hobbyhorse if I were you. You've already had to eat crow with a fork and spoon once this week. :lol
Mars01 enjoying his crow lunch
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/mars01a.jpg)
Toodle-Pip!
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/jester.gif)
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Boy oh Boy Beet,
You are the one that has said countless times that you prefer sneaking bases and you even posted how you like to take undefended bases and dont like interlopers interupting you.
So once again you take something said about one thing in a totally different context and try to make it fit in another. A true sign of a total Bull ***** artist.
Keep painting with your t u r d brush bud, we all know the truth about you.:rofl
Oh and by the way it's not eating crow it's being man enough to admit when I am wrong, two things you would know nothing about.:lol
So you didn't dive in at 20k you dove in at 8k while I was vulnerable in climb out from takeoff. Phew you are amazing dude, I can't believe the RAF hasn't got a hold of your skills yet lolh:rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by VWE
You want some good fights? The areana your looking for already exists... its called the CT. Try it you may like it, I'm starting to fly much more of my online time in there.:aok
Even tho I'm new, I'm going to have to second this! I finally tried out the CT a few nights ago, and it was nice! Only about 150 total, I actually got escorts when I upped a bomber, the folks were friendly, and the biggest complaint was that, at the time, knights were heavily outnumbered.
Oh, and as for the main topic, I don't think I'd pay more to get shot down by all you guys...I do that just fine in the MA now. :D
My strategy: Fly as unpredictably as possible through the middle of a furball and distract the other guys long enough for my squadmates to get a kill. Just call me DroneBoy!
Cheers,
Spitter
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The Spitfire Theater neads some changes.
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i think he used the last of his rounds on my wingman just before my wingman died, i was just trying to kill him before he landed his kills:aok
i know i play dirty;)
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Thank god, but thats why I stipulated
I only hope he was out of gas or bullets
:aok
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Originally posted by beet1e
I was shocked by your "wanking" remark!
Well, somebody had to point it out to you for the upteenth time.
Originally posted by beet1e
Hehe, it's funny how the TAS squad should be the very people to champion the freedom of choice....
"Fly what you like, like what you fly" mantra.
And we are. You haven't seen anyone here saying you shouldn't be able to pursue cherrypicking to your heart's desire. Cherrypick as you always have. TAS realizes it's your right to fly in a boring manner.
What you've seen is TAS people saying it makes for poor gameplay from our point of view. See, that's an opinion. I know how you hate it when other folks get to voice opinions that don't agree with yours but there you go. It just happened again.
Interestingly enough, HT made that very same observation in a discussion with me a few years back. I have this feeling that before too awful long there will be some adjustments to the game to try to generate something different in gameplay/goals.
As to my sig line, puzzle on this:
Fly what you like, like what you fly, don't worrry about what the other guy flies. It's a game.
Now, ponder how the word "what" relates to the word "how".
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Originally posted by mars01
So you didn't dive in at 20k you dove in at 8k while I was vulnerable in climb out from takeoff.
Oh well, you were almost right - give or take 12K! :lol I can't remember how near to or far from the airfield we were. But I came in at .... 8K :eek: Upon seeing your icon, what should I have done? Please do enlighten me. Perhaps I should have paused to consider whether it was morally correct to dive on your plane and then passed you by? Did Corsairs ever dive in the real WW2? If the roles had been reversed, and you had been at 8K and spotted me below, would you have flown on to maintain the moral high ground, looking to be bounced by someone else so that you could deploy your elite turnfighting skills? Bollocks. :p
But there is a glimmer of hope for you, Mars01. I see you are making less use of your Spitix/LA7 crutch, and have ventured into the USN planes. Would you do me a favour and film one of your sorties, and email it to me? I just want to see how YOU fly an F4U. I won't comment on it on the BBS. Anything sent to me privately remains private. But I think we would understand each other better if we looked at a few films.
Ah, Mr. Toad. :D Nice to hear from you again. :aok I'm done yanking your chain for the moment. :) I've just reviewed the whole thread, and it's quite a good one. I agree with some of the points made. I was on last night for 30 minutes, and the only action I saw was at A27 on NDISLES - what the hell is that children's map doing up anyway? Was Trinity reset? All I saw was furball, furball, furball. The BISH were getting closer to A27 and its fate was about to be decided by one thing. (Clue: 4th book of the Old Testament) Had I stayed it would have gone As I've said before, even if I'm on the winning side and getting lots of kills, it gets boring when things are one-sided.
Now as to Zipp's original point about why we have the steamroller, and whether things could be improved by charging more to play, I recall Brand-W in the $2/hour days. There was nowhere near the amount of steamrollering/suiciding back then. Anyone paying $2/hour took the game more seriously. I always remember what Funked said he missed about those days: "$2/hour keeping the tards out" - :lol But he was spot on. Some folks here have no interest in WW2, no interest in learning anything new. So the same ~4 planes get used the whole time.
I think steamrollering is directly related to the number of people online and/or player density on the maps. I certainly agree with what Redd said - our prime time ( aussie time) usually has 100-200 ; good mix of euros asian aust nz and usa guys ;when i log on in US prime time the difference is amazing - and not so good.
Indeed. Furball noticed it too: http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=112209
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I guess you figure your stat-obsessed posts about yourself or others some how make you look kewl. You may figure it as yanking but to me and certainly to a few others you look like your doing something that rhymes with yanking.
Anyway, congratulations. You've proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you spend more time looking at my stats than anyone else in AH, including me.
As a bonus, you always fail to make a point as well.
Yanker.
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No, I don't think I did any posting or commentary on stats in my last post. Zipp feels that a $30/month arena might be a way to inject quality back into the game. My belief is that charging more might work but only if everyone were subject to the same tariff. Eg. everyone having to pay $2/hour. But now with rival games/sims out there, that might not be workable.
We've had plenty of whines in the past. Map whines, mainly. But what's this! A gameplay whine :eek: -->
Originally posted by Zippatuh
I’m up increasingly less and the quality of fights has really seemed to drop off. I would love the days where there was a max of 200 on any given night. Seemed like everyone was more willing to engage and the fights were better; these days it might as well be a first person shooter with aimbot.
Grow some nads people. Learn some ACM, engage! Do something. Fester MA is great but the steamroller lives on. With nearly 600 online last night it was difficult at best to find a quality area to fly in.
I was on for about 1 hour 15 minutes. About 30 minutes of it was worth a damn.
... and this from a squad whose mantra is "Fly what/how you like, like what/how you fly, don't worry about what the other guy flies - it's a game!" And to top it all there are no fewer than four TAS squaddies participating in this whine about how others spend their $14.95. :lol
This is a moment in history I will never forget. And surely the biggest paradox this BBS has ever seen. :rofl
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/jester.gif)(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/jester.gif)(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/jester.gif):cool: <-- the last one is Mr. Curval - he's cool and an OK dude. :aok
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Allow me to correct you yet again. I should charge for this.
It isn't the squad mantra. It's been my sig line since long before you showed up here.
Further, there is no "how" in the line. Never has been. That's yet another magnificent red herring born between your own ears.
It's good though that you are beginning to realize the difference between "what" and "how".
No, you didn't post YOUR stats in here. However, if ever anyone showed himself to be obsessed posting with his own stats, you'd surely rank in the top 10 on this BBS.
Instead, you went digging for some obscure stats on me.As usual, they prove totally non-germane to the present discussion. Also, as I said, this surely wins you the trophy for the AH player most obsessed with my stats. I surely don't look at them as often as you do.
Feel free to continue to "stroke" away in public as you paint your self-portrait.
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Originally posted by Mr. Toad
It isn't the squad mantra. It's been my sig line since long before you showed up here.
Further, there is no "how" in the line. Never has been. That's yet another magnificent red herring born between your own ears.
Oh sure, I know it's in *your* sig. But it's the squad mantra in the sense that other TASsers echo those sentiments when they post. Your sig merely encapsulates the principles of your squad.Allow me to correct you yet again. I should charge for this.
Yes you should charge for your advice. I'm sure you'd get exactly what it's worth! :p;)
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But there is a glimmer of hope for you, Mars01. I see you are making less use of your Spitix/LA7 crutch, and have ventured into the USN planes. Would you do me a favour and film one of your sorties, and email it to me? I just want to see how YOU fly an F4U. I won't comment on it on the BBS. Anything sent to me privately remains private. But I think we would understand each other better if we looked at a few films.
You know Beet you are too funny. You read stats and look for what you want to see, not what is there. If you checked my stats for real you would see that I fly all kinds of planes.
Like I have stated many times before it is just the sort of hordes that dictate what I fly. I would love to fly the hog all the time, it's my favorite plane Go ahead... Knock it off :lol circa 80s Robert Contrad
, but it is useless against the horde unless you do a lot of hit and run, which gets very boring.
I usually engage 3 or more cons at a time, because I fly strait for the horde. I pick the biggest red dar bar and head for it. Thus I need a plane that has half a chance in such an environment.
I do this for two reasons, 1) I am a knight and we are predominantly out numbered most of the time. 2) Because I got very bored of the climb to a safe alt in a late war plane and pick my fights.
Once I won my first 3 v1, killing all of them, there was no turning back, that far and away blows away the dive down and kill, climb back up and look for another disadvantaged nme kind of fight.
Oh well, you were almost right - give or take 12K! I can't remember how near to or far from the airfield we were. But I came in at .... 8K Upon seeing your icon, what should I have done? Please do enlighten me. Perhaps I should have paused to consider whether it was morally correct to dive on your plane and then passed you by? Did Corsairs ever dive in the real WW2? If the roles had been reversed, and you had been at 8K and spotted me below, would you have flown on to maintain the moral high ground, looking to be bounced by someone else so that you could deploy your elite turnfighting skills? Bollocks.
Well at least your good for a laugh, not much substance but a good laugh. Yes beet I would have dove in and killed your prettythang, but in no way would I be bragging about it in here or even mentioning it, because I realize how little skill it takes to do such a thing.
To be honest I would have been more embarrassed than proud of the fact, because it was such a skilless cherry pick kill. But I guess you got to take what you can get:lol
Now if I dove on you, and you reversed me, we tiwsted and turned a few times and you showed some skills, then my hat would be off to you, but somehow I don't see that happening.:lol
Anything sent to me privately remains private. But I think we would understand each other better if we looked at a few films.
Yeah right :rolleyes:, I can believe that after you took a sincere apology in a completely different matter and context, and tried to turn it into some advantage to yourself.
Originally posted in poor taste by Beetle
You've already had to eat crow with a fork and spoon once this week.
Mars01 enjoying his crow lunch
insert pic in vain Beetle attempt to inflate his tiny testicals lolh:rofl :lol
Some how I think anything you can get your hands on, you will twist and mangle to fit your view.
But we'll see, maybe it would do some good.
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"Anything sent to me privately remains private."
Yeah ... I am sure Steve can vouch for that.
"But it's the squad mantra in the sense that other TASsers echo those sentiments when they post."
Ah ... I see ... once corrected, you get to add the "sense" conotation to make your embelishment of our so-called "sqaud mantra" correct.
Nice try, but our mantra is "No Mercy Asked....None Given!", but that apparently was too hard for you to figure out.
If I were to take the same liberties, I would presume that your lone wolf squad mantra would be "Always fly with an advantage, and when reversed, run like hell".
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ROFL Mars01! Great post - made me laugh. :lol
Yeah, I know what you mean about the F4U. Half the time I pick the wrong plane for the job - or the wrong job for the plane. Would you agree that the F4U is by no stretch of the imagination a turnfighter? I do have some F4U films I'd like you to look at, and would welcome your comments/advice about what I could have done differently. No tricks!
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Originally posted by SlapShot
If I were to take the same liberties, I would presume that your lone wolf squad mantra would be "Always fly with an advantage, and when reversed, run like hell".
Well, my #1 plane in T49 was the F4U1D - slower than the P51 and LA7, which is pretty much what I'm bound to run into, so I think that mantra needs work! Nice to see yet another TASser entering the fray in this gameplay whine thread.
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/jester.gif) <- slapshot! didn't want you to feel left out. :aok
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Yeah I guess,
I'll start recording when I'm in it.
No it's not a turn fighter in a spit sense, but with it's roll rate and ability to retain e and blow e it has some intereseting advantages.
In a 1 v 2 it is vulnerable 3 or more alone it is useless, but it is deadly in a 1 v 1.
It is unique, that you can get in a situation where the tail seems to come around as if it were moving faster than the nose, and if you catch it right you can stand it still then nose down and reverse direction on a dime but now your slow and the work starts :D . IceMAW has seen me do this a while ago when we were messing around in the TA. Now theres a great Hog pilot - crap just a great pilot :aok .
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Originally posted by WldThing
No i wouldnt do it. Im not rich enough to afford $30 bucks for a game, ill settle with the steamrollers, i find those fights a little more challenging than the occasional 1 vs 1, if i wanted 1 vs 1 i would hit the DA.
Them's my sentimentals, too.
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Actually, I've already had to cancel my slim03 account, until we get our finances at home on an even keel, so, no, a $30 subscription would definitely not be an option for me. Heck, I'm just hoping I can once again open another account at the current price, someday in the not-to-distant-future.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Well, my #1 plane in T49 was the F4U1D - slower than the P51 and LA7, which is pretty much what I'm bound to run into, so I think that mantra needs work! Nice to see yet another TASser entering the fray in this gameplay whine thread.
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/jester.gif) <- slapshot! didn't want you to feel left out. :aok
It doesn't really matter what plane your in Beet, or whether they can catch you or not ... its not about the hardware ... its the style.
As far as feeling left out ... bah ... dumped those insecurities a long time ago.
Oh .... and thanks for supplying your self portrait in many of your posts ----> (http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/jester.gif)
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Mars - OK, my email address is orangebeet1e@yahoo.co.uk Shoot me an email, and I'll reply with a couple of F4U films. Sorry if the crow thing caused offence.
Slapshot! ;)
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OK,
No offense taken by it, just thought it was poor taste.
Thanks for caring tho :)
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Wow… where is your deep rooted obsession with the TAS coming from beet? If you want to join send an email to Sax we’ll discuss it.
Am I whining, yeah, I guess that I am. I fly the 51D because I like flying it. I don’t care that I see the same aircraft all the time. Well, maybe sometimes, but it really doesn’t bother me. I just don’t understand why someone would pay for an air combat game and then fail to engage in, ummm, air combat. Follow?
I don’t see the fun in 10v1 or 20v1. Being on the “winning” side just for the sake of saying “hey look, we won”. Won what? A base capture?
I log on and instantly you can see that most of the crowd is flying safe. For what? It’s not a real death you know.
I don’t want to tell someone how they should fly their $15. I just don’t understand why fly the game in the first place if the objective isn’t to fight?
I’ve changed my mind… up the subscription back to $30 for the whole lot. I agree that the higher price will keep the tards out. If you can’t afford it, then vote for the socialist party. I don’t care that you can’t pay for it. If you’re in the TAS though, I’m sure we would work something out for our members to keep up the subscriptions.
So, life’s hard, get over it. Oh, wait, it’s not hard. That’s obvious with today’s game play. As long as I don’t engage, it’s not hard and I feel no pain. Hey, you don’t feel any pain anyway! Get in the fight or go crochet; your money would be better spent that way. A nice set of doilies for the family at Christmas would be good for the lot of you girl scouts and a better use of yours and my time.
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Zipp! I actually agree with a lot of what you say, much of which is applicable whether one is a furballer or a strat player. As always, having mentioned "strat player", I must remind everyone that strat player is not synonymous with "suicide fuel porker".
My earlier postings were just some good old fashioned chain yanking with yer man Toad. It has to be said that when I posted my concerns about gameplay, they were met with derision and guffaws of laughter, and rebuttals along the lines of "they just won't play *your* way, will they, Generalissimo? " So when I saw this gameplay whine thread, started by a TASser, with several other TASsers throwing their hats into the ring, I could not pass by the opportunity of having a little chortle of my own at the irony of the TASsers (of all people) whining about gameplay. :D
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Post what you believe in. Believe in what you post. Don't worry about what the other guy posts. It's a freaking BBS!
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Originally posted by Zippatuh
Grow some nads people. Learn some ACM, engage! Do something. Fester MA is great but the steamroller lives on. With nearly 600 online last night it was difficult at best to find a quality area to fly in.
I was on for about 1 hour 15 minutes. About 30 minutes of it was worth a damn.
Zipp - sorry to hear of your disenchantment with AH gameplay of late. Here is a message of sympathy from Mr. Toad regarding your plight. I'm sure I can find others.
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/toad99.jpg)
- such was Mr. Toad's considered response when Hazed and myself aired concerns about gameplay. WGACA :lol
Sorry, ol' Bufo. I am not even close to finishing milking this one. Enjoy your lunch! :rofl
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Originally posted by Zippatuh
Wow… where is your deep rooted obsession with the TAS coming from beet? If you want to join send an email to Sax we’ll discuss it.
That would be TASser Zip.
The new name makes us sound soooo uptownish. Kinda like fancy smancy wine testers or something.
Thx BeetGonna hold my nose up just a little higher from now on.
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Originally posted by Zippatuh
Wow… where is your deep rooted obsession with the TAS coming from beet? If you want to join send an email to Sax we’ll discuss it.
I'm touched by your consideration. :) But I think you guys tend to fly way into my beauty sleep time, and I need every minute of that. And you'd make me fly one of those turny-burny planes. :eek:
Zipp, you should post more on this board. I enjoy reading your posts, especially the wall-o-text ones.
Sax! You're welcome. ;)
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ONE of the dumbest threads I've seen in a while. The answer would be NO to higher prices. Sheesh... :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Zippatuh
I’ve changed my mind… up the subscription back to $30 for the whole lot. I agree that the higher price will keep the tards out. If you can’t afford it, then vote for the socialist party. I don’t care that you can’t pay for it. If you’re in the TAS though, I’m sure we would work something out for our members to keep up the subscriptions.
Im glad HTC doesnt accommodate to your wishes.
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This is SO dumb I just had to reply...NOT ONLY NO! BUT HELL NO!
If you can't find the fight you want, you're not trying. Remember, it takes 2 to make an ACM fight. Are you capable of this and doing your part? I tend to doubt it.
As was mentioned before, go to the CT. Hey, if you really do have a set of "nads" go to the H2H arenas. You'll get all the ACM you can spell.
Now run along and go play in the steet or something. Quit posting this rot.
Disgustedly,
Dracon