Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rogwar on March 31, 2004, 07:24:15 PM
-
Folks,
First of all this is very tragic and horrific event. My condolences to the families of these people.
My thoughts here are from first-hand geopolitical experience and analysis. This is a theory....not proof but just a theory for analysis. The intention is not to debate the right or wrong in Iraq but to analyze this situation.
I have been studying the news coverage from a variety of sources in detail on this event. My basic thought is that this was a staged event by opposing forces. Those people were ambushed (they didn't know such might be staged) and then some type of follow-up Somalia like event was pre-arranged to occur.
If you notice from the video there are some folks with their faces covered that seem to be leading the group. A lot of money is still available in the country to incite people to do awful things. A similar event in Somalia had a dramatic impact via the press.
Again, the intention is not to debate the right or wrong in Iraq but to analyze this situation.
Thinking from the insurgency side it would be good practice to ambush some foreigners (particularly US soldiers or citizens). Non-soldier foreigners (not in an amored vehicle with subsequent amored support) would be a softer target.
Anyway, kill some foreigners and then deface their corpses in front of the press. This was a staged show in my opinion designed to create a similar impact as we saw in Somalia. Such is generally accepted around the world to have had a significant negative impact on the American people regarding our presence in Somalia.
It would be interesting to interrogate (using similar methods as police would do in any western country where a similar event should happen) a statistically significant sample of the Iraqis that showed up to this event. Were they incited to show up? Were people paid to show up?
I believe there is a little more here than just the news bits we receive via the media. This didn't seem as much to be true hatred as playing for the international press.
What are your thoughts? only on this event please. Lets analyze this and not get into discussion of the right or wrong of the Iraq war. Think of it in terms of an independent analsyt viewpoint.
Regards
-
Fallujah is a Sunni stronghold. The minority Sunnis (30% of population) have controlled Iraq by proxy through Hussein for 35 years using maximum brutality and genocide against the majority of Iraqis. They (Sunnis) know that they will be dealt with harshly by a whole lot of non-sunni Iraqis with an axe to grind and really have no future since they were removed from power by the US led coalition. This fuels their hatred and results in the butchery we saw today.
If I were in Charge in Iraq I would surround that city, give one opportunity for the women and children to exit peacefully then level the place entirely. A warning to the other Sunni population centers to seek peace or suffer the same fate. Time to cut these people out of the picture. As long as the sunnis are allowed to resist and behave like animals Iraq is doomed.
-
Originally posted by Yeager
If I were in Charge in Iraq I would surround that city, give one opportunity for the women and children to exit peacefully then level the place entirely. A warning to the other Sunni population centers to seek peace or suffer the same fate.
I'm glad your not in Charge.
That has Military Fiasco written all over it.
-
I'm glad your not in Charge.
====
Lol...me too
-
so Yeager.. would you use gass....like saddam did?
-
Very sad indeed. Cant they isolate Fulluja and the other rowdy towns. Build Bagdad, and the rest of the better parts of Iraq and deal with them later. Not saying bagdad is much better. Its just that its the capital of Iraq so it has to be rebuilt first. Isolate all those feakin warlords and their towns.
-
I think A C-130 gunship is in order here.
I have said it all along these ignorant goat hearders cant handle to society we are trying to build for them.
They simply love to kill each other too much to ever live in peace.
SO I say hand them some god awfull payback and come home let them have there stinking chithole of a country.
We have removed SH our job is done.
Monitor the retards from now on and boitch slap em as needed.
-
These trouble spots in Iraq, they are like diseases or infections. I think they should be treated as such by containing them. Then dealing with them when the time or remedy exists. Complete isolation so they are on their own for food, electricity, etc... Bring them to the barganing table instead. Why not, Iraq as a country has been sanctioned for more than 10 years. These terrorists know that these attacks also have the affect of motivating the anger of populace towards their cause. If they are succesful.
-
So montag... you would isolate Iraq and make it like a deathcamp hah? let everyone suffer for what a MINORITY does?
nice troll/idiot post.
And for your info Yeager, Falluja is a stonghold but yet only 30% in the town are sunni. You would evacuate the woman and kids and then kill everyone over 18? And you would use gass like saddam or bullets/grenades.
nice troll/idiot post.
-
Originally posted by montag
These trouble spots in Iraq, they are like diseases or infections. I think they should be treated as such by containing them. Then dealing with them when the time or remedy exists. Complete isolation so they are on their own for food, electricity, etc... Bring them to the barganing table instead. Why not, Iraq as a country has been sanctioned for more than 10 years. These terrorists know that these attacks also have the affect of motivating the anger of populace towards their cause. If they are succesful.
As DR Phil would say Hows that been workin for ya?
LOL we have had a rather large military force in that country for over a year now right!
And yet these ijits are still able to get grenaids to blow up cars.
And small arms:confused: why? why do they even have the dammed things (guns) in the first place?
Have they not gone door to door and taken all there toys away?
If not maybe that should be Oh I dont know THE NEXT STEP.
If they aint got no guns no grenaids and launchers they gonna have a hard time hurting eachother and our troops.
Go thrue these "hot spots" and take away all GUNS and such.
If they refuse KILL THEM!
The message will get out pretty fast and guns will begin to pile up un the front of the commanders tent
:aok
-
That sir is the sickist part of any war.
Sometimes children will die and It makes my stomach turn to think of any child being killed in a war that he knows nothing about.
For his childhood to be taken away by stupid "adults" is the biggest war crime of all i think.
-
Originally posted by LAWCobra
I think A C-130 gunship is in order here.
I have said it all along these ignorant goat hearders cant handle to society we are trying to build for them.
They simply love to kill each other too much to ever live in peace.
SO I say hand them some god awfull payback and come home let them have there stinking chithole of a country.
We have removed SH our job is done.
Monitor the retards from now on and boitch slap em as needed.
You should invite them all to the con and then kick their asses.
-
Originally posted by Furious
You should invite them all to the con and then kick their asses.
NO I will prolly be too tierd from laughing at your arse so much:aok
-
Interesting theory Rogwar. I would not be surprised if it was orchestrated for the reasons you have given.
Ravs
-
Its not only Falluja or the Sunnites.
The whole Iraq is actually fighting a civil war. In North Iraq the kurdish clans fight each others. Arabs have to flee from N-Iraq or are killed by the kurds. Same with the turkmen minority living there. So called traitors and collaborateurs are lynched.
The same in the shiite dominated regions and the sunnite regions.
Day by day many iraquis are lynched by iraquis.
But its not important for the TV to report this.
When foreigners like people from the USA are lynched the same way we get the shocking news from iraq.
I think Iraq is lost for a very long time. The actual government - most of them corrupt people who were put in charge by the occupation forces - are no hope for a democracy in Iraq. No one in iraq respects them.
The fact that the majority of the Iraquis are shiites and that they would do what their ajatollahs tell them also make a democratic election impossible. Or do you want an Islamic Republic of Iraq after the first democratic election ?
On the other hand: Why wasting any soldiers or people or money in Iraq ?
The best would be to leave the Iraq and watch how they kill each other in a civil war.
-
Originally posted by babek-
The best would be to leave the Iraq and watch how they kill each other in a civil war.
Nah, that might disrupt the oil supplies.
-
Originally posted by Nilsen10
so Yeager.. would you use gass....like saddam did?
Naah, better to use bulldozers like the Israelis do.
-
Originally posted by Hortlund
Nah, that might disrupt the oil supplies.
Why ? There would be civil war units controlling the oil teritories. And they would sell them for peanuts if they get weapons to kill other iraquis.
So - at least no foreign soldier has to die in this hell.
Yesterday also 5 US soldiers died after an attack of some iraquis.
So why should any foreign soldier die in Iraq ?
Because of democracy ?
They are not able to live in democracy. Iraq is turning from a secret civil war to a more and more open warfare.
So again my question: Why not allowing them to kill each other instead of risking the life of foreign soldiers who have no chance to win because this is a guerrilla war?
-
babek-
he was beeing sarcastic.
-
Originally posted by LAWCobra
I have said it all along these ignorant goat hearders cant handle to society we are trying to build for them.
Duality Wav (http://161.58.5.90/fmj/duality.wav)
Son, all I've ever asked of my Marines is for them to obey my orders as they would the word of God. We are here to help the Vietnamese because inside every gook, there is an American trying to get out. It's a hardball world, son. We've got to try to keep our heads until this peace craze blows over.
Tronsky
-
Originally posted by ravells
Interesting theory Rogwar. I would not be surprised if it was orchestrated for the reasons you have given.
Ravs
Thanks for the comment ravells.
Lotsa comments on here by thread hijackers but I'm really looking for any analysis of this situation in particular, not Iraq overall.
Granted, foreigners, soldiers and/or civilians are being killed almost every day in Iraq. However, it just seems like this was a planned, staged event for the press to create a "Blackhawk down" type of effect in the media.
In fact, I believe the goal by the insurgency of killing foreign soldiers everyday is not just the killing so to speak. The idea is to reduce support in the west, particularly in the USA, for the action in Iraq. Such is believed in the world to have worked many times in the past, i.e. Vietnam, Lebonon, Somalia.
Update: I was just listening to a major US news program and heard this question by the news commentator, "Don't you think that after seeing this many Americans will just want to wash their hands of Iraq?".
Subsequently, "a military analyst (exmilitary) said, "we need to find some of these people from the video and talk to them".
-
Interesting business about the four contractors killed (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=718&e=5&u=/ap/20040401/ap_on_re_mi_ea/civilian_deaths) were part of an international security firm; ex-Special Forces types doing private training and bodyguarding, much like the group being held by Mugabe who were supposed to be going up north from South Africa to provide security for the mining operations.
-
On the other hand: Why wasting any soldiers or people or money in Iraq ?
The best would be to leave the Iraq and watch how they kill each other in a civil war.
My feeling also.
-
Rogwar,
I agree with your analysys. However, unlike Somalia, I believe the incident is fueled more by desperation than by anything else. The Somalian gunmen never felt the full pressure of the US military while the rest of Iraq is relatively peaceful and beginning to show signs of economic growth.
It reminded me of the footage in Vietnam where that VC got shot in the head while handcuffed, as well as the Blackhawk incident, or when Col.(?) Higgins died of a heart attack in captivity, then his body later hanged and videoed (I forgot what country that was in).
Whatever their motives, I believe they made a huge tactical error, just like OBL, and are going to get the brunt of the storm very soon. If their intent wass to have additional footage of innocents -children and women-being killed, then they got their wish.
I wouldnt be suprsed if the US and our allies quietly went about and removed as many journalists from fallujah as possible. The sequel aint gonna be for the squeamish.
-
or when Col.(?) Higgins died of a heart attack in captivity, then his body later hanged and videoed (I forgot what country that was in).
Lebanon.
-
Colonel Higgins went to high school about five miles from me. Theres a statue with a picture of him at his school (Southern High).
So was he hanged or did he really die of a heart attack?
-
We don't know whether the present attacks were Al-Q backed, but the idea that the US will not have the stomach for a war if the bodies of their nationals are brutalised has some precedence.
That said, I think the mood of the local population in the US between having troops in Somalia and in Iraq is entirely different. Until the Black Hawk Down episode, I believe many Americans had no idea there was a military presence there and most probably didn't know where Somalia was. So it is understandable that they didn't give two hoots about operations there and wanted their troops back.
Iraq is a different case. America has made a promise that it will leave Iraq a democratic nation. That was the 'moral mandate' it took upon itself by invading Iraq in the first place. This is why:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The best would be to leave the Iraq and watch how they kill each other in a civil war.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
would be the biggest PR disaster the Americans would ever have if they pulled out of Iraq without leaving some semblance of order there.
It will be interesting to hear what the average American on the street is saying about the 'brutalised bodies' incident. My gut reaction is that the incident is not going to change many minds, and the people who believe that America has an obligation to stay there until a proper transition of power can be effected to the Iraqis, will continue to so believe. My perception is that the US are not about to back track out of Iraq without finishing the job although they are trying to be sensitive to the invariable fact that the longer a 'liberator' stays in a foreign land, the more likely he will be seen as an 'oppressor' by the locals. I am sure this is why the US has given a clear date on which they will leave.
Ravs.
-
"Q: Why wasting any soldiers or people or money in Iraq ?
"A1: The best would be to leave the Iraq and watch how they kill each other in a civil war."
"A2:My feeling also."
Sheesh. None of the suggestions I've seen have measured up to the capabilities of the old Bathe party. Seems Saddam and gang were doing a good job after all (of killing Iraqi's) and the US/UK didn't need to invade Iraq to liberate a repressed, civilized people after all.
-
better shias etc then americans westy?
-
"better shias etc then americans westy?"
Absolutely.
-
(http://xzodus.com/muslims/crusader2.jpg)
-
One can but hope for the best. Ideally, after the new government is firmly in place, complete with its own security forces, we can pull out with the satisfaction of knowing that we have done all that is humanly, and humanely, possible.
Perhaps, when we are gone, the Sunni thugs will realize that we are no longer there to keep the Shi'ite population from exacting a bloody vengeance, and will then come to their senses and seek a peaceful resolution.
But let's not sit on a hot stove until that happens.
Regards, Shuckins/Leggern
-
Very good points there Red Tail and Ravells! Thanks gents!
I very much agree Somalia and Iraq are totally different situations. And to Red Tail's point I believe it is desperation as well. However, if a group can create a media event (out of desperation) then it may give them more power in their insurgency efforts. Whether direct or indirect, it may help some to achieve their goals.
I just believe the goal of some "leadership" in the insurgency was to create a "blackhawk down" type of event vis a vi bodies being dragged through the street. And more on Red Tail's point on desperation, what else could they do? If I were in a leadership position in the insurgency, and given all the world history and cultural considerations, it is exactly what I would have done, assuming I had the same cultural and mindset background. It could potentially undermine western support as well as increase the propensity of every Jihad Johnny in the region to join in on the attack against the infidels.
If I were an analyst on the Iraq desk I would be looking at both western and arab media's take on this event very carefully. There is a lot more depth here than just the killing and mistreatment of corpses.
The thing is though, one can only use that tactic so many times until it does not have the desired effect. Reaction of the public gets hardened.
And another point on Red Tail's comment, I believe more is in the works for that area, particularly now. The marines are back. A bit of rooting out is on its way.
Ok and finally, another thought....how did the media get there so quickly? That region of Iraq is still "indian country" so to speak and very dangerous for anyone from anywhere not local. If westerner's are so hated, then why not kill the western reporters that showed up as well? Yes, all types of media showed up to get a peek because it was a "story".
Those vehicles were burning! still BURNING! Has that been seen in awhile on the media?
-
Well Rogwar I like you I really do.
But I have no love for any muslim .
There people have caused more harm to my people in the last 50years its just sick.
They are cowards savages that do this kind of thing and I for one am sickend every time I see one on the street.
Cause hell I have no idea If there "good muslim" or a bad one.
I mean how do you tell?
they have the eggs to whine about background checks when thay come here LOL.
Well Geezus what do you think we should do?
open the gates back up and let some more terrorist in to kill some more Americans?
Is Profiling wrong?
I a perfect world YES.
But we aint in the leave it to beaver world anymore.
There are COUNTRIES out there that want us DEAD.
WAKE UP people we trully are at war weather you like it or not those are the facts.
Do we take the fight to them or waight for them to start bombings here like in Israel?
You may not like Bush Hell I think in some ways he is a dipchit but I do think when is comes to protecting Americans he Is doing a pretty good job.
Think about it when your the Pres and you send young people to war were they might die.
You will be second guessed buy every "expert" in the country.
And also think about this he get the casualty reports every morning im sure
do you think he feels good about of the deaths of young Americans?
Come on like him or not he is human it has to suck to be President In times like these.
So as far as muslims go maybe someday when ever there brothers stop killing people i Might give a rats arse about them.
-
sometimes the press need bullets in thier cameras instead of film
-
1 word....Thermobaric weapons....and lots of them....that'll change their opinion drastically when they no longer have eyes.
-
I take it that you were against the war from the start then Westy.
-
Originally posted by Yeager
Fallujah is a Sunni stronghold. The minority Sunnis (30% of population) have controlled Iraq by proxy through Hussein for 35 years using maximum brutality and genocide against the majority of Iraqis. They (Sunnis) know that they will be dealt with harshly by a whole lot of non-sunni Iraqis with an axe to grind and really have no future since they were removed from power by the US led coalition. This fuels their hatred and results in the butchery we saw today.
If I were in Charge in Iraq I would surround that city, give one opportunity for the women and children to exit peacefully then level the place entirely. A warning to the other Sunni population centers to seek peace or suffer the same fate. Time to cut these people out of the picture. As long as the sunnis are allowed to resist and behave like animals Iraq is doomed.
Originally posted by Eagler
sometimes the press need bullets in thier cameras instead of film
Nice to see the Xian boys take some time off from convincing us that Islam is the religion of terror to chime in with the old "What would Jesus do?" brand of tolerance and "turn the other cheek" forgiveness. Shows us by example what a real religion of peace is all about. You guys are just all heart - I dunno how you do it. ;)
-
lol Dead :D
-
I thought rogwar was being a bit optimistic when he started this thread.
Ah well.
Ravs
-
Originally posted by Westy
"Q: Why wasting any soldiers or people or money in Iraq ?
"A1: The best would be to leave the Iraq and watch how they kill each other in a civil war."
"A2:My feeling also."
Sheesh. None of the suggestions I've seen have measured up to the capabilities of the old Bathe party. Seems Saddam and gang were doing a good job after all (of killing Iraqi's) and the US/UK didn't need to invade Iraq to liberate a repressed, civilized people after all.
If USA entered Iraq to disarm Saddam of WMD's and put Saddam in jail then USA has achieved both of these aims.
Why not leave?
As long as USA stays in Iraq American's will continue to be killed and in 1 year or 3 years or 5 years when they leave - as leave they eventually will the body count will be in the thousands of both sides and there will be an ernest discussion in here on whether the memorial to the is good enough to honour the glorius dead.
Pretty stupid waste of good men if you ask me.....
-
Originally posted by ravells
I thought rogwar was being a bit optimistic when he started this thread.
Ah well.
Ravs
I was but then I changed....I was tired and had been drinking so I have edited it a bit now. Don't want to hijack my own thread in the end.
I had just gotten back to Texas from western Wyoming where I was on a business trip. Had the chance to go down 1,500 feet in a Soda Ash mine and then another 3 miles by jeep inside the mine.
Tomorrow is the start of spring turkey season!
-
Originally posted by LAWCobra
Well Rogwar I like you I really do.
But I have no love for any muslim .
There people have caused more harm to my people in the last 50years its just sick.
They are cowards savages that do this kind of thing and I for one am sickend every time I see one on the street.
What the hell have the Muslims ever done to INDIANS?!
-
rogwar; would have prefered to relay msg via eml but never been able to get your eml. three of the four were graduates of our "alma matter". number four was former army and by all accounts a true operator. our three were from the younger crowd so i doubt you ever did a platoon with one of em. if you want the names i need an eml for you. regarding your question i agree and add that probably smart move by area commander to not go after bodies. enemy probably set up to ambush a co or two of marines. if marines fight off ambush with little or no losses still would have been some dead local women + kids for enemy propoganda. rest assured the payback is coming. unlike mogadishu our guys have control of area and control access to area. "only a matter of time".
-
"Pretty stupid waste of good men if you ask me....."
I agree.
However I think it was all a stupid waste to begin with when all of the effort, expense and lives that have gone into invading and occupying Iraq could have been better spent boosting the real war against terrorism in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
-
Originally posted by Westy
"Pretty stupid waste of good men if you ask me....."
I agree.
However I think it was all a stupid waste to begin with when all of the effort, expense and lives that have gone into invading and occupying Iraq could have been better spent boosting the real war against terrorism in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
what leads you to believe that operations conducted in iraq significantly impacted ability to conduct operations in afghanistan?
-
Originally posted by anonymous
what leads you to believe that operations conducted in iraq significantly impacted ability to conduct operations in afghanistan?
the left and their pals in the media
-
"what leads you to believe that operations conducted in iraq significantly impacted ability to conduct operations in afghanistan?"
I never said it impacted the ability to conduct operations. I said invading Iraq did not help the war on terrorism and the resources would have been better spent in Afghanistan.
The amount of US troops helping to comb the countryside for Taliban and AQ is nothing compared to the numbers stationed in Iraq. This has delayed the ability of our Fuhrer in being able to declare "missun" accomplished and it has left far too many terrorists free to do as they just about please.
-
I agree with you Westy.. focus the effort on the fight against terrorism.
It is good that saddam is captured tho.
-
Originally posted by Nilsen10
It is good that saddam is captured tho.
not to the left - any success this President has at anything is spun by the left as a failure
when hatred of one dictates you to call him "Fuhrer", anything of any sense out of the same mouth is impossible
I think our militay is large enough to handle both "wars" easily
more ppl in afghan does not mean quicker victory. just as in iraq, the plan is to let the locals handle it, not just flood the place with more 'evil" americans. i support and trust this admins handling of the situation - now and through 2008 :)
-
Originally posted by Westy
"Pretty stupid waste of good men if you ask me....."
I agree.
However I think it was all a stupid waste to begin with when all of the effort, expense and lives that have gone into invading and occupying Iraq could have been better spent boosting the real war against terrorism in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
100% with you on that one
-
You would have made a good brown shirt Eagler.
-
heck, j noticed ur a NE lib wes, ain't gonna waste my breath
u and ur mini-jfk "war-hero" go have have a group hug for me pls
-
Blah blah bla.
I'm not a lib/con, a Democrat or a Republican and I'm not voting for Kerry OR Bush. I bet it sux not to be able to easily label or categorize someone doesn't it? (although feel free to call me an a-hole)
-
Originally posted by Westy
"what leads you to believe that operations conducted in iraq significantly impacted ability to conduct operations in afghanistan?"
I never said it impacted the ability to conduct operations. I said invading Iraq did not help the war on terrorism and the resources would have been better spent in Afghanistan.
The amount of US troops helping to comb the countryside for Taliban and AQ is nothing compared to the numbers stationed in Iraq. This has delayed the ability of our Fuhrer in being able to declare "missun" accomplished and it has left far too many terrorists free to do as they just about please.
most of units involved in attack on iraq would never be deployed to afghanistan. exceptions are 82 ab 101 aa. most spec ops asset deployed to iraq were available again for afghanistan shortly after iraq army defeated. 82 + 101 could be used in afghanistan but "plenty" of top rate lt inf available and deployed from several countries. you say it not help war on terror but would you rather have terrorist now operating in iraq against us military operating elsewhere maybe against softer targets?
-
Why would they not have been deployed to Afghanistan? After alll so many seem to say that we invaded Iraq as a response to 9/11 and as part of the war on terrorims? So why wouldn't they have been useful in Afghanistan or even Pakistan.
"would you rather have terrorist now operating in iraq against us military operating elsewhere maybe against softer targets?"
What? Do you imagine the terrorists would have ignored the US forces in Afghanistan? I don't. Afghanistan would have been the focal point. We already had forces in Afghanistan with all the terrorists (and thier head leaders!) they could handle and more.
IMO there was no need to have opened another bogus "front" that only helped to trash our standing with the global community and creating even more ill will towards the US.
There are now even more "extremists" intent on doing any harm they can against the US and it's military because the "Western" invasion of Iraq appears to the Muslim world to be another modern day version of the Crusades with the aim of subjugating and controlling the Middle East.
-
Originally posted by Westy
Blah blah bla.
I'm not a lib/con, a Democrat or a Republican and I'm not voting for Kerry OR Bush. I bet it sux not to be able to easily label or categorize someone doesn't it? (although feel free to call me an a-hole)
a-hole
-
I supported the removal of Hussein in 91. I supported it in 03 and Im pleased to say it has happened. The deal in Iraq is the most important thing this country has done since it peacefully defeated the USSR.
-
Originally posted by Westy
You would have made a good brown shirt Eagler.
wow man all this time I thought you were a decent dude. ya just turned out to be another tool.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Are there countries that want you dead? NO! There are no countries on this planet that want you dead! You are NOT truly at WAR ... whether you like it or not.
So the attack on 9-11 was not an attack on America.
And there are not countries that sponsor terrorist.
I tell ya what why dont you let Us defend our country the wa we se fit thank you:aok
LOL euro turds.
-
Originally posted by Westy
Why would they not have been deployed to Afghanistan? After alll so many seem to say that we invaded Iraq as a response to 9/11 and as part of the war on terrorims? So why wouldn't they have been useful in Afghanistan or even Pakistan.
"would you rather have terrorist now operating in iraq against us military operating elsewhere maybe against softer targets?"
What? Do you imagine the terrorists would have ignored the US forces in Afghanistan? I don't. Afghanistan would have been the focal point. We already had forces in Afghanistan with all the terrorists (and thier head leaders!) they could handle and more.
IMO there was no need to have opened another bogus "front" that only helped to trash our standing with the global community and creating even more ill will towards the US.
There are now even more "extremists" intent on doing any harm they can against the US and it's military because the "Western" invasion of Iraq appears to the Muslim world to be another modern day version of the Crusades with the aim of subjugating and controlling the Middle East.
armored + mech units involved in iraq would never be deployed to afghanistan. they are of no use there. terrorist are not targeting us in afghanistan. they are hiding and being hunted. afghanistan ideal terrain for hiding. from tactical and operational standpoint much better to fight insurgent who risk travel to get into iraq and fight us in territory in iraq instead of us digging around in mountain of afghanistan.