Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: LAWCobra on April 01, 2004, 11:07:45 PM
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Bremer: Iraq Deaths Won't Go Unpunished
1 hour, 15 minutes ago
By SAMEER N. YACOUB, Associated Press Writer
FALLUJAH, Iraq - The top U.S. administrator in Iraq (news - web sites) said Thursday that the deaths and mutilation of four American contractors in Fallujah "will not go unpunished," and a U.S. general vowed an "overwhelming" response.
AP Photo
Reuters Photo
Slideshow: Iraq
Iraq Murders Test American Resolve
(AP Video)
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Special Coverage
U.S. troops, however, remained outside the city Thursday, and commanders said they would act "at the time and place of our choosing."
They also defended their decision not to send forces into the city Wednesday to retrieve the charred remains of the Americans, who were dragged through the streets for hours after insurgents ambushed their SUVs.
Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said troops didn't respond for fear of ambushes and the possibility that insurgents would use civilians as human shields. "A pre-emptive attack into the city could have taken a bad situation and made it even worse," he said.
On Thursday, Fallujah residents said they were ready to take on the Americans if they now try to enter the city.
"We wish that they would try to enter Fallujah so we'd let hell break loose," Ahmed al-Dulaimi said. "We will not let any foreigner enter Fallujah," said Sameer Sami. "Yesterday's attack is proof of how much we hate the Americans."
Near Fallujah on Thursday, insurgents set off a bomb beside a U.S. military patrol, wounding three troops. Associated Press Television News footage showed smoke and fire pouring from an abandoned Humvee on the side of a road.
In Ramadi, west of Fallujah, six Iraqi civilians died and four were wounded Wednesday evening in a car bombing at a market, said Lt. Col. Steve Murray, a coalition spokesman.
Also Thursday, two explosions near a U.S.-escorted fuel convoy in Baghdad wounded at least one Iraqi. APTN footage showed U.S. soldiers putting a wounded person on a stretcher in an armored vehicle.
Schools and shops were open in Fallujah a day after the macabre events, during which mobs strung up two of the corpses on an iron bridge over the Euphrates River.
Kimmitt pledged to hunt down those who carried out Wednesday's killings, which were reminiscent of the televised abuse of the corpses of American soldiers in Somalia in 1993.
"We are not going to do a pell-mell rush into the city. It will be deliberate, it will be precise and it will be overwhelming. We will not rush in to make things worse. We will plan our way through this and we will re-establish control of that city and we will pacify that city."
Fallujah, 35 miles west of Baghdad, has been the scene of some of the worst violence since the beginning of the U.S.-led occupation a year ago. The city was a stronghold of support for Saddam Hussein (news - web sites), who was ousted in the invasion a year ago. Militant forces appear to enjoy the support — or at least acquiescence — of a significant part of the population.
A U.S. counterterrorism official said the attacks have stepped up in Iraq over the last few weeks and have reflected more sophistication and planning.
The official said it was unclear who is responsible, though Baath party remnants, Iraqi intelligence figures, associates of al-Qaida-linked Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi or Sunni extremists are among the possibilities.
Last month, U.S. Marines took over authority of Fallujah and surrounding areas from the 82nd Airborne Division and conducted patrols that led to fierce firefights in the city.
The Marines enter Fallujah only on days when they conduct a military operation in the city. The Marines were apparently not in Fallujah on Wednesday when mobs dragged the mutilated and burned bodies of the four Americans through the streets.
Apparently fearful Iraqi police in the city stayed away from the mobs, and picked up the bodies hours later only at the request of American troops.
On Thursday, police manned roadside checkpoints and remained at their posts but were not conducting raids or operations related to the killings. Two officers told The Associated Press they were afraid, while a third said: "Why should we interfere? It's none of our business."
It was unclear why the American contractors were traveling unescorted in such a dangerous area. The four worked for Blackwater Security Consulting of Moyock, N.C., which provides training and guard services to customers around the world.
The firm is a government subcontractor providing security for the delivery of food in the Fallujah area. It is also a subsidiary of Blackwater USA, whose range of paramilitary services include providing firearms and small-groups training facilities for Navy SEALs, police department SWAT teams and former special operations personnel.
Iraq's administrator, L. Paul Bremer, condemned the killings as well as the combat deaths of five American soldiers on the same day, and said "their deaths will not go unpunished."
"Yesterday's events in Fallujah are dramatic examples of the ongoing struggle between human dignity and barbarism," Bremer said at a ceremony for police cadets in Baghdad. "The acts we have seen were despicable and inexcusable. ... They violate the tenets of all religions, including Islam."
Samir Shaker Mahmoud, a member of the U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council, said he hoped the response of the U.S. military in the area would not be based on "revenge."
Iraqi Interior Minister Nori al Badran also promised to send forces into Fallujah but did not say when.
"We were shocked because our Islamic beliefs reject such behavior," police Lt. Salah Abdullah said in a reference to the abuse of the bodies.
Major newspapers in the United States ran graphic photos Thursday of the charred bodies, while the images were largely shunned by American television as too horrific.
Overseas, broadcasters and newspapers carried the gruesome images, though some London tabloids blurred the photos and Arab television obscured more gruesome footage.
Some European newspapers speculated about a quicker U.S. troop withdrawal and others said it could serve as a new standard for attacks.
But Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) said the United States would not be "run out" of Iraq.
"America has the ability to stay, fight an enemy and defeat an enemy," Powell, who was attending a donor conference in Berlin for the rebuilding of Afghanistan (news - web sites), said in an interview on German ZDF television.
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They're an fluff'n joke... A joke armed with assualt rifles. They cannot see past the propeganda they've been swallowing for the last two-plus decades. The country belongs to them, now, and yet they're 'rebelling'... Rebelling against what? They don't understand the fundamental principal that once order is established, they will have to deal with these foriegn invaders no more.
Yes, I supported the regime change. Yes, I support our getting the F out of there ASAP. Yes, I want these people to be free to make their own mistakes, and create their own triumphs. Truth be told, I have many doubts that anything good will come of this, but at least the future is uncertain, rather than certainly doomed, as it was with Saddam.
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Originally posted by Capt. Pork
They're an fluff'n joke... A joke armed with assualt rifles. They cannot see past the propeganda they've been swallowing for the last two-plus decades. The country belongs to them, now, and yet they're 'rebelling'... Rebelling against what? They don't understand the fundamental principal that once order is established, they will have to deal with these foriegn invaders no more.
Yes, I supported the regime change. Yes, I support our getting the F out of there ASAP. Yes, I want these people to be free to make their own mistakes, and create their own triumphs. Truth be told, I have many doubts that anything good will come of this, but at least the future is uncertain, rather than certainly doomed, as it was with Saddam.
You summed it up very good. Nobody but those people themselves should decide what's best for them, be that a democracy or tyranny. But this has changed in last year. Somebody else wanted to decide for them.
Now people are rebelling. You supported the regime change ? And who are you ? What would you think of a Chinese who would support a regime change in United States, after US has been invaded for that to happen ? Would you, maybe, become a rebel ? Or would you accept the new pupper government ?
These people show one quality you Americans also praise. To stand up against an occupation. Thier way might seem barbaric to you, but that's a difference in culture - another reason to stay away.
It might look stupid to you, but you are not an Iraqi living in Fallujah and you really don't have a clue what's in their mind. You may not like it, but you (US) asked for such things to happen.
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Originally posted by Hristo
You summed it up very good. Nobody but those people themselves should decide what's best for them, be that a democracy or tyranny. But this has changed in last year. Somebody else wanted to decide for them.
Now people are rebelling. You supported the regime change ? And who are you ? What would you think of a Chinese who would support a regime change in United States, after US has been invaded for that to happen ? Would you, maybe, become a rebel ? Or would you accept the new pupper government ?
These people show one quality you Americans also praise. To stand up against an occupation. Thier way might seem barbaric to you, but that's a difference in culture - another reason to stay away.
It might look stupid to you, but you are not an Iraqi living in Fallujah and you really don't have a clue what's in their mind. You may not like it, but you (US) asked for such things to happen.
LOL!
If the US was under a dictatorship and the Chinese invaded the US, overthrew the dictator, started to rebuilt the country, spent billions to help us, and then allowed a democratically elected government to be put in place, then promised to leave after the country was stable, I would be all for the Chinese. In fact I would want to kill any American that tried to prevent the US from being liberated.
Maybe you should put things into perspective before you ask such a question so out of touch with reality.
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Originally posted by Hristo
You may not like it, but you (US) asked for such things to happen.
We had the ability to show them another way. If there is a such thing as social darwinism, then perhaps they should take a page from the lessonbook. What they don't understand is that until they take over, in a humanly way, it is us who are in charge.
It's brutal. It's barbaric. It's the truth. Get with the times or be left behind.
Yes, it may not be our place to dictate the social reformation/destiny of another nation, but on the other hand, we all have to live on the same planet, do we not? Their success/happiness, is, in a way, a reflection of our own, and thus we do have a say in what they do. Some will suffer in the transition but if we are all really one people, it should be our common goal to live one harmony.
Allowing them to continue under Saddam is no different than saying, 'let the cancer do what it may', to a final conclusion... The cancer must be removed, for humanity is no longer just a bunch of dis-associated organs. We all depend on each other. Those that rebell against the therapy are merely surviving cancer cells.
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Originally posted by Capt. Pork
They're an fluff'n joke... A joke armed with assualt rifles. They cannot see past the propeganda they've been swallowing for the last two-plus decades. The country belongs to them, now, and yet they're 'rebelling'... Rebelling against what? They don't understand the fundamental principal that once order is established, they will have to deal with these foriegn invaders no more.
Yes, I supported the regime change. Yes, I support our getting the F out of there ASAP. Yes, I want these people to be free to make their own mistakes, and create their own triumphs. Truth be told, I have many doubts that anything good will come of this, but at least the future is uncertain, rather than certainly doomed, as it was with Saddam.
BINGO... NAIL ON THE HEAD!!!!
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Why are these people allowed to have these weapons?
Can we not go door to door and dis arm the populas?
And If they resist KILL them Im sorry but too many troop and now civilians are getting killed by these chickenchit stunninghunks.
They have no need for weapons at this point so why do they have them?
Is It that hard to take them?
If so give them X amount of time clear out of town cause it going BOOM.
If they stay Well oh shucks.
Less of them to worry bout.
But Of coures dont forget the liberal bleeding heart who will tell you we are there to help these people.
Bullchit we helped them by getting SH.
Now Its there turn there country bring our people home.
Monitor them and go back from time to time and give them a biotch slap If they
need it.
I am sooo freekin sick of these pieces of watermelon in sandles killing good American.
There well being there health there country there future there families aint worth ONE American life.
:mad:
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Originally posted by NUKE
LOL!
If the US was under a dictatorship and the Chinese invaded the US, overthrew the dictator, started to rebuilt the country, spent billions to help us, and then allowed a democratically elected government to be put in place, then promised to leave after the country was stable, I would be all for the Chinese. In fact I would want to kill any American that tried to prevent the US from being liberated.
Maybe you should put things into perspective before you ask such a question so out of touch with reality.
You don't get it. What Chinese consider a democracy might be a dictatorship to you. What they consider freedom might be oppression to you.
You would not value spent billions if you are just as poor as before, if you see Beijing Cafe where McDonalds used to be etc.
But you would be bothered by Chinese thinking they know better what's best for you, disregarding any cultural or other differences. Eating sticks included.
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disarming them is the on going mission. we were told that we have to do it the (so called) "correct way". in other words, ask them to turn them in. it didnt work. when we seize weapons, more come into the country. now where are they coming from? syria maybe..... iran? heck for all we know they are coming in from saudia arabia. iraq was a military government, everyone and their mothers had weapons. just sitting in Mosul for 6 months i seized hundreds of weapons from Ak, RPG, to the old british Stens. like what was said earlier in this thread, let them weed out the bad guys. thats what we did over 200 years ago.
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While it is fun to see US conservatives saying that the only way to make that country free is to take away thier weapons..it is poor sport.
I like Nukes post..its true from a certain point of view..
What if 10 years befor they came in to "help" they destroyed every bit of infasturcture in your country bigger then a honda generator including many of the major bridges and most of the water treatment capablility?
Then flew over your country packing bombs for a decade and cut you off from the rest of the world economically so you couldnt ever really fix it yourself?
How might you feel then Nuke..
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Originally posted by GScholz
LOL! Wtg. Mr. Black advocating gun control, who would have guessed?! :D
lolol wonder if the new Iraq Constituion will allow it's citizens the right to bear arms?
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Originally posted by Pongo
While it is fun to see US conservatives saying that the only way to make that country free is to take away thier weapons..it is poor sport.
I like Nukes post..its true from a certain point of view..
What if 10 years befor they came in to "help" they destroyed every bit of infasturcture in your country bigger then a honda generator including many of the major bridges and most of the water treatment capablility?
Then flew over your country packing bombs for a decade and cut you off from the rest of the world economically so you couldnt ever really fix it yourself?
How might you feel then Nuke..
How do YOU think they would feel had they been told the truth about why they faced 10 years of sanctions after the opening of the war 13 years ago? It wasn't US dude it was SH that caused the sanctions. And Russia and France that helped them continue for so long under the oil for food scam.
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Hristo, agreed completely. Thank you!
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Originally posted by LAWCobra
Why are these people allowed to have these weapons?
Can we not go door to door and dis arm the populas?
And If they resist KILL them Im sorry but too many troop and now civilians are getting killed by these chickenchit stunninghunks.
They have no need for weapons at this point so why do they have them?
Is It that hard to take them?
If so give them X amount of time clear out of town cause it going BOOM.
If they stay Well oh shucks.
Less of them to worry bout.
But Of coures dont forget the liberal bleeding heart who will tell you we are there to help these people.
Bullchit we helped them by getting SH.
Now Its there turn there country bring our people home.
Monitor them and go back from time to time and give them a biotch slap If they
need it.
I am sooo freekin sick of these pieces of watermelon in sandles killing good American.
There well being there health there country there future there families aint worth ONE American life.
:mad:
Now go tell it to Toad, who is so upset about Chechen "rebels" who have their "human rights" violated (to have them you need to be a human). Tell it to Euro liberals who are so eager to protect terrorists in Chechnya and accuse Russian troops in "criminal cleansings" and other deadly sins.
Double standards are great. I love them. Western world can't live without them for the last 1000 years.
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One A-10 could deal with the smack talk. :)
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Originally posted by GScholz
LOL! Wtg. Mr. Black advocating gun control, who would have guessed?! :D
In this case you bet!
These people have shown that they do not have the grey matter to handle there emotions .
And for everyones safety all civillians should be disarmed.
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Originally posted by Udie
How do YOU think they would feel had they been told the truth about why they faced 10 years of sanctions after the opening of the war 13 years ago? It wasn't US dude it was SH that caused the sanctions. And Russia and France that helped them continue for so long under the oil for food scam.
Tell me what you would say to those Iraqis about the sanctions and whose falt they were. Keep in mind, no WMD have been found after over a year and billions of dollars worth of searching.
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the sanctions were set for many reasons, for example. the chemical attack on the Kurds, violations on the northern no fly zone, still no account for missing VX and mustard gas munitions, violation of the southern no fly zone, moving skud missle launchers into the no fly zones (near the border of Jordan), and operating surface to air missile sites in the no fly areas. also keep in mind that these are UN mandates. so i would blame the iraqi government for the sanctions. i dont doubt that russia and france helped the iraqis get arms for oil. but france and russia we not the only ones. when i was taking baghdad last march, i captured a mobile anti aircraft missile system, state of the art system that is made and used in england. now this system is new, i mean new. its all about the money
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Originally posted by Pongo
Tell me what you would say to those Iraqis about the sanctions and whose falt they were. Keep in mind, no WMD have been found after over a year and billions of dollars worth of searching.
tell me what happened to the WMD we had cataloged?
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Hey you at FT Cambell?
Hey good you made it back safe
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thats LAW, its good to be back.
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I have takled to my friend, who have spent 2 years in Afghanistan, 85-87, running all over the mountains with AK-74, and described the situatuion in Fallujah. He said such things were impossible in Afghanistan, and they have never met any partizan opposition not only in urban areas but in villages too. "Shuravi" were usually the best friends...
Looks like someone is really offended at American occupants.
Well, you came with a sword.... :(
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Just read in local newspapers an article from a man from my town who lives in Baghdad for 18 years now.
He says situation is insane. No law, people are armed to the teeth, robberies are very frequent, there is no electricity in great part of the capital, the gas is among most expensive in the world - you have to wait for hours to buy it (in a country with vast oil reserves !?!?). Police can't even protect themselves, much less anyone else. The press is supposed to be free, but any writings which doesn't suit the coalition is sanctioned. If you go out of the house, better have nothing of any value with you and a Kalashnikov in your car might be a good idea. The Americans shoot first and ask quesitons later on their checkpoints - nobody knows how many have been killed "by mistake". One of better payed jobs are for new government, but it is risky - you become a target essentially.
Cities like Fallujah are extremely dangerous and avoided by everyone, including US troops.
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Originally posted by texace
One A-10 could deal with the smack talk. :)
And that would achieve? Absolutely nothing like last time. What was it called Iron Fist or something?
Thing people forget as much as the Iraqi's hated Sadam they hate the US alot more.
...-Gixer
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I would be all for the Chinese. In fact I would want to kill any American that tried to prevent the US from being liberated.
Wow!! I mean freakin’ WOW!!!...
Well of course you would Nuke..
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Originally posted by Hristo
Cities like Fallujah are extremely dangerous and avoided by everyone, including US troops.
And this is why we have bombers:aok