Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Wolfala on April 03, 2004, 12:31:46 AM
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Guys,
I know the MG-42 is pretty much the most badass LMG in existance - even if it was 60 years ago, but isn't there a version that is STILL in use today? If so, how does it differ - and what is a good site to do some research on the 42's genesis into other LMG's?
Wolf
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Used by Yugoslavia, India - also either Spain or Portugal, not sure which - formed the basis of the FN MAG GPMG which is used by most of the Western nations.
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MG34-->Mg42-->Mg3--> M60.
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IIRC, the MG42 was reincarnated as the MG3 by the Germans. The original plans had been lost in the war, so they had to reverse-engineer plans from existing WWII weapons.
I think the main difference in MG3 was that it was chambered in 7.62 nato, and some other minor differences.
ed: what does the M60 have in common with the mg3 and mg42, lasersailor? The M60 is gas operated, while the MG42 is recoil/gas operated. The MG42 doesn't even have a piston for its gas, just the deflector near the muzzle.
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Originally posted by Tarmac
IIRC, the MG42 was reincarnated as the MG3 by the Germans. The original plans had been lost in the war, so they had to reverse-engineer plans from existing WWII weapons.
I think the main difference in MG3 was that it was chambered in 7.62 nato, and some other minor differences.
ed: what does the M60 have in common with the mg3 and mg42, lasersailor? The M60 is gas operated, while the MG42 is recoil/gas operated. The MG42 doesn't even have a piston for its gas, just the deflector near the muzzle.
M60 feed system is based on MG42 IIRC.
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Trivia time MG stands for Machine gun LOL Duh 42 stands for the year it enterd service. hence MG42 came along in 1942.
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Originally posted by LAWCobra
Trivia time MG stands for Machine gun LOL Duh 42 stands for the year it enterd service. hence MG42 came along in 1942.
MG = maschine gewehr, iirc. Machine Rifle.
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the mg3 is used by many countries as a light machine gun...we use it to for the infantry and as light mg on tanks etc.. its a very reliable and accurate bugger.
fun to shoot :)
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Originally posted by Tarmac
MG = maschine gewehr, iirc. Machine Rifle.
Well yeah but that splitting pubic hairs for those of us who flunked german in high school LOL.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
M60 feed system is based on MG42 IIRC.
Ahh, cc. Now that you mention it, I agree. :)
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If you're interested about high-quality vid of firing MG42 download this (http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/MG42.wmv) (21mb, right-click, save as).
Not sure how long I can store that so grab it while you can.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
MG34-->Mg42-->Mg3--> M60.
And thus the NVA got a lesson in history.
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Thanks for the video staga!
The MG42 is simply one of the most evil looking weapons ever, its a perfect design IMO. :)
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dl now Staga..thx :)
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They needed to fire the Mg42 full auto. They were just doing little bursts.
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maybe they actually tried to hit something
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Originally posted by SunTracker
They needed to fire the Mg42 full auto. They were just doing little bursts.
Looks like you haven't fired a LMG. FYI that's how you supposed to use it if you want to hit anything.
Also with rate of fire o 1200 rounds per minute the barrel will be glowing after couple belts and most likely that guy did not have a spare barrel.
btw IIRC that gun did cost about 20 or 25k $, good reason not to ruin your barrel.
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Wow... Airsoft MG42 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2232668980&category=4078)
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Originally posted by Staga
Wow... Airsoft MG42 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2232668980&category=4078)
holy crap, US$1450 for a bb gun!
Tronsky
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Staga, there are countless reports of guys firing M60s for several hundred rounds. You actually want some dispersion when firing a machine gun.
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OK so the modernized version of the 42 is the MG3 - just fires the Nato 7.62 and has a lower cyclic rate? Other then that, how does it differ?
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i would suspect that the quality/type of the metal is better but other than that i have no idea.
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The barrel change system in the M60 was also based on that of the MG42
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The M-60 is regarded by some as being a real crappy weapon, almost like the whole m-16/AK-47 comparison. I don't recall it having that bad a rep when I was serving, but then I didn't use it as a main weapon or fire to to any great degree. Still there were a lot of Vietnam era soldiers in my unit with a lot more experience, and they didn't offer any real complaints or stories, etc. Does anybody have more information? I know the SAW and MAG have largely replaced it in service today.
Charon
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Originally posted by LAWCobra
Trivia time MG stands for Machine gun LOL Duh 42 stands for the year it enterd service. hence MG42 came along in 1942.
So the MG3 entered service... ummm.... 0003?
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Originally posted by Staga
If you're interested about high-quality vid of firing MG42 download this (http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/MG42.wmv) (21mb, right-click, save as).
Not sure how long I can store that so grab it while you can.
Wow, look at the recoil on that bad mother****er.
Shell casings eject pretty fast aswell.
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Originally posted by Wolfala
OK so the modernized version of the 42 is the MG3 - just fires the Nato 7.62 and has a lower cyclic rate? Other then that, how does it differ?
Cyclic rate is the same, but you can swap out a few parts to lower the MG3's rate of fire.
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Originally posted by Wolfala
OK so the modernized version of the 42 is the MG3 - just fires the Nato 7.62 and has a lower cyclic rate? Other then that, how does it differ?
I could be wrong, but AFAIK, there are no major differences. The weapons even look nearly identical.
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Heres a good comparison of the two. Had it not been for the unofirms, I wouldnt have been able to tell which was which.
God bless Germany engineering.
(http://members.aol.com/dasreichwaffenss/images/mg42.jpg)
(http://www.waffenhq.de/infanterie/mg3_08.jpg)
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Originally posted by SunTracker
They needed to fire the Mg42 full auto. They were just doing little bursts.
You have NEVER fired a Machin Gun in your life have you? The thing about MG42 is that it was extremly accurate with really short bursts. You get a couple of these going at once and you could send ALOT of well placed rounds down range.
The M-60 is regarded by some as being a real crappy weapon, almost like the whole m-16/AK-47 comparison. I don't recall it having that bad a rep when I was serving, but then I didn't use it as a main weapon or fire to to any great degree. Still there were a lot of Vietnam era soldiers in my unit with a lot more experience, and they didn't offer any real complaints or stories, etc. Does anybody have more information? I know the SAW and MAG have largely replaced it in service today.
I've shot the M-60 and had no complaints about it. The Main "replacment" for it today is in fact the SAW. The SAW is also a fine weapon but shoots 5.56mm NATO rounds verses 7.62MM of the M60. The US also uses the 240G or the "golf" It is primarily a defensive medium Machine gun but it uses 7.62MM.
An old friend of mine used to be a weapons and tactics instructor allways said he missed the 60 when they phased it out. He said with the golf you cant stand up and "dance" with it were as the 60 you could.
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Originally posted by Staga
If you're interested about high-quality vid of firing MG42 download this (http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/MG42.wmv) (21mb, right-click, save as).
Not sure how long I can store that so grab it while you can.
Thnx.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
You have NEVER fired a Machin Gun in your life have you? The thing about MG42 is that it was extremly accurate with really short bursts. You get a couple of these going at once and you could send ALOT of well placed rounds down range.
"Die mother****er, die"
Pause... repeat. ;)
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I work for a class 2 manufacturer on my off days and we built a 42. It is a great weapon if not a little tempermental. The weapon we restored was built in May of 43 excluding the feed tray and trunion. There are only 2 things needed to convert a 42 from 8mm to 7.62 and that is a small spacer in the feed tray and a barrel. It took us about a month to rebuild it and getting it running right. Finding the right timing for it is very time consuming. But once all the bugs were worked out it was a real hoot to play with. We used to take it to demo's for P.D.'s and let them shoot it. We would keep it hid until we had shown them our line of suppressors and then pull the 42 out. You should see some of the looks on thier faces it was priceless. Sadly the 42 was sold about 6 months ago to another dealer so the baby is gone, but a new 1919a6 is in the works. When we get it completed we will make a video or 2 for all the MG junkies out there.
Ohh and about firing the 42 flat out....ours was 8mm and on a AAA tripod it would beat the he11 out of you. We would only run 1 50 round belt at a time when we would let it rock just in case of a run away it would empty out pretty quick.
A little background on this weapon...Basically it is a shotgun. The weapon had such a high rate of fire that a good gunner could use elevation to put a high amount of rounds onto the target with pretty much the same impact time as the first round. The rate of fire was between 1400 and 1600 rounds a minute.
If you ever get the chance to go to a MG shoot give it a try. At an open shoot most owners will let you fire the weapons for a nominal fee plus ammo.
One more thing I sent Detch "asw" a few pictures of some of the toys I will see if he will post a couple of the 42 for me.
Have great weekend.
Robert
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Sorry, should have made it a little bit more clear.
Throw a Mg42 in the room. Throw a Fg42 in the room. Wait until the ruckuss is done.
You now have an M60.
BTW, I have heard that the M60 was a bad gun. But everyone who had to use it loved it for some reason...
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The 60 was and still is a great weapon system. Fairly low maintenace, good reliability, and a fairly low rate of fire. Makes for a good combination. It is almost grunt proof.
Robert
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The MG 42 also had a very advanced tripod for infantry use.
(http://games.tom.com/images/2003/comic/1120/toya01.jpg)
(http://games.tom.com/images/2003/comic/1120/toya05.jpg)
The tripod had an intergal recoil-dampening system that made it extremely accurate. You could squeeze the handle (shown on the bottom picture. It is the two verticle wooden handles on the side of the mount, just below the butstock of the gun) and blow through a whole belt and it would cover a yard square area at 100 yards. The two leather pads on the front were back pads for when it was folded up and carred like a back pack.
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That was my thought (and experience) too Gunslinger and smokin. But I've come across at least two references that paint it as some marginal weapon (but without a lot of specifics). One said the Marines went to the MAG because of shortcomings. Mybe it's just one of those ours is better than yours kind of things).
Charon
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Dune...That mount is used for defensive position with the gunner below grade in a fighting position. I forget what they called it but there is a periscope sight along the side also. On this mount it is on the right side.
Charon...as with every weapon there are fans and critics alike. I was attached to a heavy weapons squad for 2 years and humped the 60 before it was phased out. Yes it malfunctioned but all weapons do. No matter how clean and well maintained they are fouls will occur. Me personally I like the 60. We had great service out of it. When we were issued the SAW and they took our 60's away we griped like all good little grunts do and once we got the bugs worked out of the new weapon we liked it. No more humping 2 kinds of ammo.
The 60 is still in service though. The teams still use it as well as the M-14. The 7.62 is a great round. It may eventually be completely replaced but I figure it still has many more years of service in it's future. That one is just my opinion though.
Robert
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Charon, I agree. I believe that you are right.
But anyway, that tripod shown is for long range MG use. You fire off a burst, give the handle one spin, fire off another burst.
It's not meant so that you can grab ahold of the gun and swing it around on the tripod.
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The main reason the M-60 was regarded as being nearly bulletproof was the Stellite lining of the barrel. Without that liner in the barrel you could really ruin it within a few hundred rounds. But with Stellite you get stories of guys shooting it until the barrel glowed. It was a really tough gun too. I think it was mostly gun writers who gave it a bad rap. Most grunts either loved it or just liked it; I don't know any 'nam vet who hated the thing. One or two have told me that without proper care it could get a bit tempermental, but that holds true for any gun.
As for the MG-42/MG-3, it still has the fastest barrel change system of any machine gun today. Pop a latch, swing the barrel out, pull. In about five seconds you can swap barrels on it with not a single tool. Spain uses a similar gun called the CETME, Austria has the MG42/59, and it was built as the Sarac in Yugoslavia.
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Originally posted by Wolfala
Guys,
I know the MG-42 is pretty much the most badass LMG in existance - even if it was 60 years ago, but isn't there a version that is STILL in use today? If so, how does it differ - and what is a good site to do some research on the 42's genesis into other LMG's?
Wolf
All intents and purposes the same type. Main difference was the lower rate of fire.
Very good design, main reason for the MG42's inception was the high cost (both in time of manufacture and money) of the MG34.
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I used the M60D as a door gun for years and fired thousands of rounds out of it. It's a great gun as far as I'm concerned. Never really encountered any problems with the gun itself. The feed chutes used in the door gun system were a PITA sometimes, but the gun was great.
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Even chicks love MG42...
http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/guns/mg43.jpg
hmm... may work if you fix the filename to mg42
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Had an M60 overheat a barrel and then jam, pulled the operating rod back to clear the jam (hopping it was just a minor malfunction) and pulled the trigger again and bam it was really jammed now :eek:
It burned my hand right through the flight glove. Part of the glove went with the hot barrel as well.
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I have alot of time on FN MAGs. Colt M1919s and the M249. I only have a belt through the M60. And of course a few 1000 50 cal.
I have seen Mg3s. The greek cypriots had them..
I would take the Mag..It has a heavy mount almost identical to the one picutred for the mg42. The gun looks diferent from the mg42, but may be derrived from it. It has a great quick change system and a high rate of fire...the US uses it on thier M1s I believe.
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Hehehe thats me on Saturday being used as a Mg42 rest!
(http://www.war4u.com/6.jpg)
(http://www.war4u.com/7.jpg)
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bet that hurts your ears
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http://remtek.com/arms/fn/mag/
A lot of info about the FN.
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Not many people know this but before Joc joined the German Army he was in the Kriegsmarine-
Joceye the sailor man
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/87_1081169598_joccy1.jpg)
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Thanks for that awesume Video, Staga.
By the way, nice "sign", Thank you Jesus, thank you Lord!