Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: R4M on May 31, 2001, 01:25:00 PM
-
We've assisted this week to very good pilots leaving AH because "it was not fun anymore". I'm not in the brain of those who have left, but I think I understand them.
The MA sucks. I know its not a very good way to say it, but I'm sincere, It sucks. The immersion factor is nil, the A2A tactics used are most of the time just HO-and-run, the kill stealing...endless reasons.
Many people are getting bored, and I know that lots of people are staying here because there is no REAL competition out there. WWIIOL is just about to be released, and TK is developing at a very good pace, so that soon will change. I dont think that keeping the player base just because WBs is no real competitor is a very good thing for AH, because when the new sims hit the streets, all those who are bored will leave. Maybe to return after finding out that the new sims are worse...but what if they are not...?. Then,probably, they will be gone forever.
That is why I -Sincerely- ask HTC to create an HA with a RPS comprising the years from 1942-1945, adecuate for the planes we have in AH. (and go backwards as new planes are included). With short range enemy icons, so enemy icons only show under 3K. With limited six views (no "Customization" of the 5-6-7 o clock views accepted) so surprise attacks are possible. With axis/allied, 2 countries. With (if its possible) better engine management. With increased sun blinding effects.With realistic navy acks. With no range information in the enemy icons under 1K. And with a "penalty" time of 5 minutes in tower if you are killed, so there is, if any, at least the slighest fear for death.
THAT would make AH way more inmersive, and I am sure that will bring back lots of hardcore lovers who have left because the MA is a such dweebish, no-skill, unrealistic, vulcherplace that in the end bores some of the best pilots around to the point to have to leave because they dont have fun anymore.
Please...I think its the best time to do it.
BTW, hasqueak, wilbus, Kirin......I'll miss ya (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
-
You only want Allies to be able to capture fields?
-
THAT would make AH way more inmersive, and I am sure that will bring back lots of hardcore lovers who have left because the MA is a such dweebish, no-skill, unrealistic, vulcherplace that in the end bores some of the best pilots around to the point to have to leave because they dont have fun anymore.
Really.... Anyone have the jaws of life? We need to remove RAM's head from his ass.
-SW
-
Well, until a Sherman, a Sdfkz 250 with a single 20mm AA gun, another Sdfkz with a MG34 of 7.64mm and a Ju52 are modelled, I would let the M16, M3, Panzer IV and C47 as common planes for everyone...
-
Pilots usually leave for reasons other than actually stated, ie. they'll make up an excuse of something that really peeve's them, then leave on that basis alone, when in acutality, it might be several things that determined one to press that delete account button. Of course you or I will never know, since the will to change one aspect of the game is stronger than one's honesty to ones self.
I do agree that we need some type of alternative, however, I don't recall seeing you in alot of the historical events we have weekly, Ram, what makes you think you'd enjoy a HA if you are not attending our Check six/Snap shots?
-
So, you want a HA but with some crossovers.
You don't want vultching, but want novice players to be easier to bounce. And time penalty for dying.
You've got the makings of an arena to be jam packed with oh, half a dozen people. Maybe more. You already have an arena capable of supporting this (except locked 6 views), you can set it up in H2H (increase fuel consumption to increase importance of engine management).
-
Rip, I dont get into the snapshots/check six because their time schedule and my real life are completely incompatible. My online time is **VERY** limited and very few times I can get online coincide with the events. Oh, and I have to admit that, as my interest in the PTO air war is very limited, I rarely assist to those events (In fact I think I only do it when I go into events organized by the Japanese players)
Rest assured, everytime I can log in for one of the ETO scenarios, I do it, and as I said before, I have assisted to some of the Japanese player-made scenarios aswell.
But go figure how is the problem that to assist to Hostile Shores I was forced to do real acrobatics, because the time was SO bad for me. Indeed last frame I could not made it (and I was REALLY wanting to get in to get some more kills).
So, you want a HA but with some crossovers
No,I would like an HA with no crossovers, but as the planes and vehicles to accomplish certain missions are not modelled yet for one of the sides, or the other, it can be solved by temporally making those planes/vehicles available for both sides. It would be or doing that, or not doing anything like an HA for now,at all. So I'd go for the first.
In any case, frankly I dont care if I have to destroy a Panzer in my Fw190F8, because the difference between flying attack missions against a Pz IV or a Sherman would be minimal. What it is not minimal is to have to fly against 109s in my 190A5, or against 190D9s in my 109G10. (Or P47s in a P51, etc).
Fatty: why dont give it a try?. How can you be so sure that it will be a failure?...but if your alternative to get an HA is to go H2H... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
oh, well
[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 05-31-2001).]
-
It won't be a success based on your suggestions R4M. 5 minute penalty... come on.. everyone will take off from back fields fly 25 mins and the dead ... well they just say fek it and go to the MA +)
Salvo
-
Ram, just looking at this from a business aspect (Remember, I support alternative arenas)..but...if one was to do a HA, you'd have to have both PTO and ETO to be fair, or at least alternating them month to month. You'd also have to have a data base of players such as AW had years ago, meaning ALOT of flyers. Today we have roughly 150 online week-nights, 200+ week ends, when the CM's call for the historic scenario's, we get *maybe* 30 in there, about 12%...until this number picks up, I doubt HTC would make a concession....who knows!
-
My point is we don't have the planeset for a dedicated historical arena yet, much less vehicle set. We have what are in effect weekly trials of the HA model, but they don't have the following at least to this point that would justify a dedicated arena.
The bright side is you do have the ability to run your own version with any map, whatever planeset you want to enable, whatever arena settings you want, whatever icon settings you want, and whatever radar settings you want, at any time in H2H. When we see more of those popping up I'll believe we're ready for a dedicated HA.
-
some of you are worse than my kids. Give me, give me, give me...
Best patch isn't a week old and some are crying for more, more, more. Like a HA would make them happy. Heck, just give the whiners two arena's to bellyache about..
be happy with what you have
Eagler
-
ya, Rip, I see your point but that has an easy solution... put an HA with both PTO and ETO planesets for both sides, and you got the problem solved (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
The immersion will suffer a bit (well, winging a Ki61 in my Fw190A5 is not what I call something "realistic"), but at least you will -always- fly agaisnt your plane's historical counter parts. And what I really want of an HA is much more realistic settings than currently in the MA, so mixing up PTO and ETO planes wont hurt what I want too much.
About the numbers, the problem is that I fear what will happen when WWIIOL hits the streets. There are lots of flamewars about if it is going to suck or not, but some people will leave AH to try it out (prolly I will be in that group, as I can barely pay AH's monthly rate, I can't afford getting WWIIOL and flying AH the ssame month), and if they like it many of them may not return.
And then TK will hit the streets too...have you read the boards?. It is a hardcore sim lover's dream, made truth...I love AH and it has my preferences over any other product, but if other product offers what I really want, what can I do?...what will do the other fanatics of hardcore realism in AH?...
with an HA with way more realistic settings, at least we have an alternative, as it is now ... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) not, and that is what I fear and that is why I yell for the implementation of an HA.
Fatty, most H2Hs are run by people with no accounts. Those people just want to hit the trigger and kill planes fast in FFAs. I have been in some allies/axis sides H2Hs and have been REALLY fun ( I remember Snoopy's H2Hs...those were the best I've ever had).
I think it would work...and I think there is much more to lose by not trying it than trying it...but after all is true, what do I know?
[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 05-31-2001).]
-
No wonder people won't post proposes if this is what you get. Then you wonder why crowd in AH has a somekind of reputation.
-
Originally posted by R4M:
With limited six views (no "Customization" of the 5-6-7 o clock views accepted) so surprise attacks are possible.
I'm all for a Historical Arena (especially with the cool European map floating around), but I am firmly against restricted 6-views. I've flown in HAs before where icons are reduced drastically, and that's enough pucker power for me. You get busy doing something important (e.g., flying formation, selecting weapons, dogfighting) and there are plenty of opportunities for good surprise bounces, believe me.
Let's do and HA -- PLEASE!
Buhdman, out
------------------
Walt (buhdman) Barrow
(formerly lt-buhd-lite)
The Buccaneers - "Return with Honor"
home.earthlink.net/~wjbarrow
-
Birdy told me there were 220 people in the MA last night.
Congrats HTC...Heading for 250
-
With ya Buhdman, I'm a proponent of having a six view due to the real life limitations of sitting behind a flat-2D monitor. IMO, folks who don't want the true six view are the ones who'll sit up at 35k ready to exploit someones weak SA, but hey, no different that we have today! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I personally like a mix of both gameplay allowances and historic realism...if you have too much of one or the other, you've cut your player base in half.
-
People will leave but people will join too.Just give us rotating maps on reset and some early war planes and the "I quit" posts will stop..And a "Full Realism" arena would be a good step too..<Sir Loin of Beef>
-
Originally posted by R4M:
The MA sucks. I know its not a very good way to say it, but I'm sincere, It sucks. The immersion factor is nil, the A2A tactics used are most of the time just HO-and-run, the kill stealing...endless reasons.
------
lol the arena has nothing to do with HO and run, its the skillless cant do ACM fighting
dweebs. map or plane set has nothing to do with it. no matter which u use, there will
always be HO dweebs cause thier lack of ACM skill allows them no other way to get kills.
whels
-
For every person that leaves, I meet two new friends, lately!
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort:
For every person that leaves, I meet two new friends, lately!
but if you can convince the one who leaves, to stay, wont you do it?
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort:
For every person that leaves, I meet two new friends, lately!
Russian proverb -- "Old friend value as two new".
I must say as 10 new (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I am sad so many good pilots are leaving. I do not care about some though, and know that some will come back even after the most noisy leave.
One reason is true -- HTC has no competions right now, and soon it will change. But will it reduce AH players base? I doubt it.
Many AH players will play other would be sims, and some people will switch to AH to find here what they can not find in other games.
So the stronger competion will not kill AH -- it is most likely will drop its monthly fee -- which all of us will benefit from. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Fariz
-
lack of historical setups was to 70& the
reason why me (an kirin i think) left AH.
i want an realistic ww2sim.
-> no radar
-> axis vs allieds
-> resticted views
but i understand the piont of HTC. a new customer want's an fast fight.
me not.
i don't understand , why you blame wb's rps and ww2 arena so much. its the best ww2 experience you can get.
wastel aka habicht
-
fellas, I cant see you paying your 30$ American if you are that unhappy. HTC does an outstanding job making this sim and it has the features that the majority of this community wants.
So if you are that unhappy then <S>, you are doing the right thing by deleting your account. Ram, you definately know where the "delete account" button is, maybe you will be next.
An HA would be a good idea I think, for a trial. I did enjoy the HA in WB's however it got frustrating with the lack of attendance. However restricted views is a silly idea, man thats what we had in WB's..it sucked! Why take a step backwards?
ammo
-
Originally posted by -ammo-:
So if you are that unhappy then <S>, you are doing the right thing by deleting your account. Ram, you definately know where the "delete account" button is, maybe you will be next.
? who said I'm going?...I say that when WWIIOL hits the streets I'll get it and THAT month I wont fly AH (because I wont be able to afford it). Then we'll see.
For now I'm staying.
-
Yup.. I'd like to see a HA... and yup; we ain't got enuff planes yet to make it a daily thing... but dammit; they ARE working on it. Check out those two new terrains... the CM Corps is moving ahead, Ck 6's, etc.
Yup.. the MA can get stale.. yup, the FFA mentality in the MA vs the Strat Crowd can make things aggravating.. lordy; everywhere yah look anyone can find faults, but folks; everywhere you look you can find great stuff just sittin there fer yer edification..
Had an awsome cloud fight the other night.. the immersion was thrilling; the detail terrific, the outcome a shocker... I had a blast. Came away sayin to myself "Gawdamn what's to NOT like here?? that was AWSOME!"
Even Ram's mellowed out.. is this the same guy that was ranting like a madman last year?? WTG RAM.. we may not all agree with yer points, but yer styles improved. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Keep at it bud. <S!>
Hang
-
Fatty: when was the last time you went to a h2h arena?
At least in my timezone, there's always arena's up with teamplay and often also axis vs allied planesets for different countries.
Heck, there are even dedicated HA maps made by h2h players!
The only true limiting factor for immersion in h2h games is the 8-player limit. Added up with the fact that usually 2-3 of the players are newusers and the host is somewhere eating his lunch, it leaves about 4 active players on the arena.
Then it only needs a newdweeb901 to start vulching his own field with an osty to spoil it completely for all..
Mostly players are forced to play FFA untill enough pilots join the game so killshooter is rarely on.
H2h can never replace the real deal. I wish it could, but it just won't (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
Originally posted by R4M:
? who said I'm going?...I say that when WWIIOL hits the streets I'll get it and THAT month I wont fly AH (because I wont be able to afford it). Then we'll see.
For now I'm staying.
well bud, hear you tell it AH has sooooo many problems that have constituted other folks leaving I can only assume since you recognise these same problems you will be right behind them. For certain you will be much happier without AH...
-
MrSid, the fact that I don't play in H2H games and the fact I'm happy with the MA are not exclusive, they are inclusive. Were I itching for a HA I assure you I'd be there.
-
fact: I love online flight sims
Fact: AH is so far the only online flight sim worth paying.
Fact: AH, even though being a wonderful flight sim, does not (by far) fullfit what I would expect from a realistic flight simulator, thing that would be solved in a big part with an HA.
Fact: I stay here until there is something better, but that does not mean that I'm all that happy here, compared with I could be with an HA.
[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 05-31-2001).]
-
HAs have been tried before in other sims with ALOT ALOT bigger player base, and they failed. u had the plane jumper who chose what side to fly for depending on what year the plane set was in. 2 side war was as much a gangbang as was a 3 sided 1.
poeple who claim they want realism, and say no Dar are fooling them selves, WW2 had dar
and gave more info then we have here. if u wan no dar in planes , ok whos gona pay$30+ a month to sit in the tower and tell everyone
where stuffs going on? oh u want a realistic
sim? how about u die, u have to cancle account, i didnt think so.
most the 1s whinning about wanting no dar are 1st ones to leave MA when Dar goes down.
restricted Views lol, the plane model ist self does that, in RL a pilot could turn his
head and upper body, and move some to look
around. we cant do that in a sim so we get views to use.
Originally posted by R4M:
fact: I love online flight sims
Fact: AH is so far the only online flight sim worth paying.
Fact: AH, even though being a wonderful flight sim, does not (by far) fullfit what I would expect from a realistic flight simulator, thing that would be solved in a big part with an HA.
Fact: I stay here until there is something better, but that does not mean that I'm all that happy here, compared with I could be with an HA.
[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 05-31-2001).]
-
H2H is so much more enjoyable just because you get the chance of no icon fights with axis vs allies aircraft.
THAT folks, if you havent experienced it, makes the sim SHINE to everlasting glory.
-
I too would enjoy a Historical Arena of sorts. I doubt we have the player base for something that is open 24/7, but maybe something for several hours. My dilemma in selling that kind of idea to the other CM’s and HTC is the numbers we have in our current historical events. The very first Friday night Snapshot I held had almost 90 people show up. Now we are back to 30 or 40. The Saturday Snapshot has even less than that. The Sunday Check 6 has about 30 or 40 also, and at times in the last few months it has been over 50. Problem is this is a 3 hour event and by the beginning of the 3rd hour we are often down to 10 or 15. I have no leg to stand on to even suggest a Historical Arena with those kinds of numbers. Until we have squads participating in our weekly events, players from the MA breaking from the MA to fly in our events, a method tell all new players about our weekly events, and our regulars selling our weekly events, a historical arena will be a long time in coming.
In the middle of June I will be working on some changes. We have some historical terrains just around the corner. All I hope will boost our attendance, which is the bottom line when it comes to having some kind of historical arena.
-------------------------
CM, daddog
332nd Flying Mongrels (http://www.ropescourse.org/flying.htm)
Snapshots (http://events.hitechcreations.com/)
The probability of survival is equal to the angle of arrival
-
daddog:
------------------------------------------
I too would enjoy a Historical Arena of sorts. I doubt we have the player base for something that is open 24/7, but maybe something for several hours.
------------------------------------------
I would love to see more things like that!
I stopped into the arena the other day, and heard that an eastern front thingie was going on in the SEA, so I went in to check it out. It was a free takeoff thing with limited enemy icon range, sorta like an AW warnight, although with no objective that I knew about.
I had a great time, and wished I had seen it announced somewhere so I could have showed up earlier.
Maybe event attendance would increase if you started spamming the message boards more. I know I would appreciate it.
anRky
-
I think word of mouth does more than anything else we can come up with. We have the "events" banners on every page of HTC site. Just click on the above banner and it will take you to links about our weekly events. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
Cool down...how about an arena similar to the one in FA...it'll have some mud moving in it too...
-
Die and sit in the tower for 5mins.
This will serve to limit the 1 pass and run mentality how?
-
Originally posted by SeaWulfe:
Really.... Anyone have the jaws of life? We need to remove RAM's head from his ass.
-SW[/B]
So much for you amazinhunks allowing anyone to have a differing opinion...you're the lead donut in a woods full of 'em.
------------------
Otter
-
Hey Daddog.. an idea...
How about a WEEKNIGHT event series??.. say 10:30 pm eastern, once a week for snapshot type events, or even a weekly 'rumble' type setup. Friday nights and Saturday/Sunday I'm 'occupado'. On a weeknight you'd have a large captive (i gotta work tomorrow) audience. Summer's ruff on all of us for weekend event attendance..
Maybe host some "Assasins vs FDB's" squad type matchups, or Allied vs LW, IJN vs USN, Brit vs LW (early war) Rooooooooskie vs LW.. etc..
I would CERTAINLY be avilable on weeknights.. tho this does nothin fer the Europe or far East time slots... maybe they could do something similar??
Just a thought... and keep up the great works! (THANKS!)
Hang
-
I totally agree with R4M.. give us a HA like he suggest!!! Just give it a try. The you can see how many pilots fly at MA and how many at HA.
------------------
BlauKreuz
Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34/)
-
Tell me, in this HA wonderland you are describing, where will those who fly VVS, IJA/N and Italian planes fly?
Will this be a five or six country arena? And how could that possibly work?
Or is this just an idea for the RAF/USAAF and LW flyers?
How very... inclusive.
And Eagler - very well said mate.
-
Reasons not to start a HA yet - much as I want one:
1. Only one country has a tank
2. Only one country has a troop transport
3. Only one country has sea vehicles
4. No PTO bombers modelled (IJN or USN) so ETO only
5. Where do you place Russian / Itallian / etc planes
You can't have a HA yet, because the planeset just doesn't support it. If all sides have C47s and PNZRs and LVTAs etc then people aren't going to like having HA-arena style icon settings.
If it's a 2 country HA people will leave after getting bored of 'gangbanging'.
If it's a 3 country HA, right now, people will leave because the peak population is likely to be 50-80 people, and it will be fairly tedious. It'll either be 1-field vs 1-field or it'll be lots of non-cooperation and random people desperately seeking someone to shoot down.
Admittedly, I'm sure the game would be more attractive to move players if there was a good H.A.
And the issue of ETO / PTO etc ... You have several camps of HA to cater for, so do you provide two HAs? Or do you cycle between PTO and ETO?
Population needs to be much higher before you start dabbling with this. People will come back for the HA, but if they don't like it, they'll stay gone.
K
[This message has been edited by kfsone (edited 06-01-2001).]
-
Personally, I think the recent run of "I Quit" posts are due to burned out pilots who suddenly think a new game is going to be the answer to their flightsim dreams. Something fresh and new, and that satisfies their every desire for a more challenging and immersive environment.
I'm not going to make any kind of comment about WWIIOL, and if its any good or not. There's no need.
Because anyone who's been around for a while know the game isn't the problem. Its the burnout, which is natural when you look at the number of hours logged by some of the pilots we're talking about.
So R4M, if you like WWIIOL and you leave for "greener pastures", well... all I can say is good luck. It too will be a game that has good points and bad points. And if I know you, you will be somewhere on their boards squeaking continuously about the points you don't like (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
-
Exactly.
-
Originally posted by Otter:
So much for you amazinhunks allowing anyone to have a differing opinion...you're the lead donut in a woods full of 'em.
Did you read this quote by RAM that I was replying to?
THAT would make AH way more inmersive, and I am sure that will bring back lots of hardcore lovers who have left because the MA is a such dweebish, no-skill, unrealistic, vulcherplace that in the end bores some of the best pilots around to the point to have to leave because they dont have fun anymore.
love muffin... read before you type. It wasn't about the HA, it was about that drivel he spewed forth.
Go back to sucking on your mom's teet and curdling at the sight of the real world. HA is fine, but don't spew forth drivel as if your anus is doing the talking for you.
You, Otter, have got to be the most anally retentive salamander of all. Sure, he can call the MA whatever he likes and you'll jump to defend him... but when someone points out his head is so far up his bellybutton on that issue the gutter life springs forth to quickly dispense their line of crap and crawl away with out so much as a clue as to why they had to add their comment.
I may be the lead amazinhunk, but atleast I'm a leader of something rather than a buttmonkey follower Otter.
-SW
-
You hit the nail on the head Verm.
-Westy
-
translation of rams post... The ma sucks for LW planes.. the pilots who can only fly LW planes are leaving. since LW planes were by far the best planes of WWII something must be wrong with the sim. It is too easy for people to dodge LW planes so we need to make every plane but a 190 (and maybe a 109) blind to the rear so that LW planes can have a chance and HTC won't change back to the old wrong FM to keep people from dodging LW planes. The planes in the ma don't play fair... They turn.. we need to create an environment where people are forced to fly LW planes. If people still refuse to fly and/or respect LW planes then we must come up with even more restrictions.
lazs
-
ah! Lazs, so there is a common denominator to those leaving. And I thought I was imagining things (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) I suppose there would have to be a new place where no matter how accurately modelled the 109 was it could still rule the roost for a year or so??? Hmmm. when did the 109 rule the skies.... ahhh. 1940 and before?? 1940!!! That's it!
I wonder what will happen when 1943-1944 rolls on around in this new Valhalla (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-Westy
-
Sad thing is, Westy and Lazs, if these self proclaimed "experten" put as much time trying new things out in the LW planes as they do complaining about 'em they'd find out they are still very competitive.
Oh and the 109 ruled the skies into 1942........ on the eastern front against I16s and other lesser abilitied aircraft.. maybe in Africa too against P40Bs and what not.
-SW
-
Yeah, right... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
This is to you lazs, just as intelligent as your post:
"AH is a US game, US planes must be the best, after all Germany lost the war. Any pilot in a US plane must beat any pilot in a German plane.. otherwise moms little furballers will run away crying...."
Why do you all think HA such a threat to you??? You would still have your beloved latewar-furball-MA to have your fun at. You would just see less pilots in early war planes.. less easy kills eh?? Is that it?
------------------
BlauKreuz
Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34/)
-
Originally posted by lazs:
translation of rams post... The ma sucks for LW planes.. the pilots who can only fly LW planes are leaving. since LW planes were by far the best planes of WWII something must be wrong with the sim. It is too easy for people to dodge LW planes so we need to make every plane but a 190 (and maybe a 109) blind to the rear so that LW planes can have a chance and HTC won't change back to the old wrong FM to keep people from dodging LW planes. The planes in the ma don't play fair... They turn.. we need to create an environment where people are forced to fly LW planes. If people still refuse to fly and/or respect LW planes then we must come up with even more restrictions.
lazs
You tiny little mr. Smartprettythang, you have stuck your feet into toejam because, since 1.07 was released the only time I got a hand on a german plane was yesterday, a 190D9. (and I got 5 kills with it).
All the rest of the time I've flown Il2, P38, P47D11,F4U1-d a bit of Ki61,tanks, bombers...even a couple of ostwinds.
So is not that the "LW planes are...or arent..." it is that the MA GAMEPLAY SUCKS (at least for me). And that the PEOPLE WHO HAS LEFT, think most of them the same about this.
You might like that opinion or not. But dont start the same stupid crap you allways do regarding the LW, because the LW has nothing to do with this.
Once again you show what you are.
Westy, I thought you had left posting.
AkSW, your vocabulary is bright. And your respect for eveyone's else opinions are just right...
NOT.
I "love" this community...
NOT.
[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 06-01-2001).]
-
Westy, I thought you had left posting.
I stopped argueing with the radicals RAM. I never left. I just hardly post any more - xcept the last couple of days here have been slow.
But what's your point? I've still got a lot of 'I quit' type of posts left to catch up to a lot of players here (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy MOL (edited 06-01-2001).]
-
Oh I'm supposed to respect your opinion when you essentially called everyone who enjoys the MA a... well hell I can just cut n paste what you said... "dweebish, no-skill, unrealistic, vulcherplace that in the end bores some of the best pilots around to the point to have to leave because they dont have fun anymore"
So we're all dweebs, no skill vulchers that are some of the worst "pilots" around because we have fun in the MA.
Yeah, I stand by my statement(s).
-SW
-
DAMMIT, shut the hell up...u flamers are just the problem. Give thought to an idea before you let your whoopee little heads run wild. Just make a few more axis and russian planes and vehicles, and get an arena similar to the one in FA! It'll be a middle of the road solution--it won't be axis vs. allies, but there won't be any german vs. german fights or something similar. In the meantime, STOP squeakING AND THINK whoopeeIT!!!!!! THINK ABOUT IT BEFORE YOU TYPE!!!! ARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! *takes deep breath*
-
This thread's been around about half a dozen times already, Doc. It's been stopped, thought, rethought, restarted, rediscussed, reconsidered, and rebuked. At any rate Pyro and HT aren't likely to ever go with it no matter what's decided here until the numbers are high enough to support 2 arenas (even at off hours).
-
Doc I'd be for using that. The setup FA had was inovative and a good feature of that game.
Japanese
VVS
German
Italian
UK
&US
Six countries? So would this be a fighter world? The Japanese and Italian would be woefully short of plane types. No bombers. The Soviets would have an awesome fighter air arm but no real base killers - although they have the best two ground vehicle attack aircraft of all - Yak-9T and IL2.
The UK would be the base porkers dreamland with the Typhon and Lancaster combo. Add in the Spit and Tempests and you'd have an awesome fighter mix too. Italy with it's 202 and 205's would be gang banged mercilessly all the time and Germany would hardly get anything done with just the JU-88 and FW-190-F. The US would have the best mix of all. Naval as weel as land based aircraft.
I would bet you'd see numbers like this in an HA where you could only fly the planes any country has modelled
Say 100 players in an HA:
Japanese 8
VVS 10
German 10
Italian 2
UK 30
US 40
-Westy
(CCCP? gack! changed <G> )
[This message has been edited by Westy MOL (edited 06-01-2001).]
-
It wuz feeexd.
-SW
[This message has been edited by SeaWulfe (edited 06-01-2001).]
-
No doubt we need more planes--each country needs a goon, a heavy bomber, a jabo, an attack plane, a few carrier planes, and a fighter AT MINIMUM.
-
Rgr that Doc. Cause if you 'substitute' then it's the Main arena.
And the Axis would need some late war bomebrs modelled eve if they were low numbered, even prototypes, aircraft to be on par with the Allied heavy bombers available. Cause that has been the undoing in any AW or WB's HA/WW2 arena (in my opinion). The lack of a sutiable Axis bomber. It helps to have some parity in damage and ability to take the war to each other.
Parity in fighter aircraft? No way. Cause that boils down to the pilot and not soi much the machine (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-Westy
-
Some countries have planes that can double as troop carriers and bombers. The UK I think is stuck on the troop carrier thing with the C47...
Germany could use Junkers as troop planes.. whatever Junkers version the below screenshot is (I forget.. brain fart):
(http://www3.ient.com/wbhtml/AIRDROP.jpg)
Japanese could use the G4M Betty as a bomber and a troop transport.
VVS... hmmm not really sure. Didn't they have one plane that they loaded paratroopers onto by holding onto the wings? Hehe... imagine that, you would just have to shoot the wings before the troopers drop off and they can't drop their troops. :-)
Italian... Not sure?
-SW
-
LOL, strap the drunks onto a betty and let the nmy fighters shoot em off.
And: we may be able to substitute a heavy bomber for the germans in favor of the Hs-293...just a thought.
[This message has been edited by DocFalconer1 (edited 06-01-2001).]
-
Such a sad child you are...he expressed an opinion and you engaged your typing fingers which seem to be directly wired to your medula oblongata before engaging the cereberal cortex and attacked him with no more civil discourse than Al Sharpton at a Democratic fundraiser.
He should expect an apology from you, but I doubt you are capable of it, seeing as how personal attack is your consistent pattern on this bbs.
Don't expect me to feel any sympathy for you love muffin if you won't even express why you disagree with someone before you attack.
------------------
Otter
-
i em for HA the MA holywood stile i dont like if i play it becose no HA
Ht pyro and Co made the WB wb was great they put ap Ha it worked well
so why a hell we cant have a HA in AH ?
-
Originally posted by Otter:
Such a sad child you are...he expressed an opinion and you engaged your typing fingers which seem to be directly wired to your medula oblongata before engaging the cereberal cortex and attacked him with no more civil discourse than Al Sharpton at a Democratic fundraiser.
He should expect an apology from you, but I doubt you are capable of it, seeing as how personal attack is your consistent pattern on this bbs.
Don't expect me to feel any sympathy for you love muffin if you won't even express why you disagree with someone before you attack.
Otter,an apology? from him? for doing the only thing he knows to do? (be an prettythang and insulting anyone who has the --slighest-- minor difference of opinion with him)
I would expect more that the sky turns green, or the ice melts at 50ºC, than to reveive an apology from him.
Oh I'm supposed to respect your opinion when you essentially called everyone who enjoys the MA a... well hell I can just cut n paste what you said... "dweebish, no-skill, unrealistic, vulcherplace that in the end bores some of the best pilots around to the point to have to leave because they dont have fun anymore"
So we're all dweebs, no skill vulchers that are some of the worst "pilots" around because we have fun in the MA.
[/b]
Today's community of AH is full of people who has just came here from Air Warrior. I could quote what the people of AH has said about AW this last year and a half. Things like "that crappy sim", "the sim full of dweebs", etc etc etc.
So now if I was like you, I could start accusing the people who was saying that of calling "crappy people", "dweebs" to the people who was flying AW.
So, if I was you, now I would call all those "critics" of AW what you just have called me. But I would be as full of toejam as you are if I did that, because that an arena is worse or better has nothing with the people is there but with the ENVIRONMENT of the Arena itself, how is set and the gameplay concessions done.
The MA is heavily biased towards an nonstop A2A furball wich usually degenerates into a vulching fest, with 190s fighting 109s, niks fighting zeros, P51s fighting Spitfires, etc.
I would call the AH MA anything but "immersive".
So, Seawulfe, you are full of toejam. Why? because regardless that the MA is what it is today, that doesnt mean that all the people there are no-skill dweebs. The MA IS a vulcherplace. The MA IS full of no-skill dweeby tactics. The MA IS boring for some of us. The MA is THAT WAY because it is designed like it is, and so, and as I (between others) dont like it very much, I ask an HA where I can feel something like immersion. an HA would solve much of that feeling with historical matchups,2 countries, RPS, realistic settings and less MA gameplay concessions.
SO if you dont like me saying what I think, you can get your disgust and put it in a place I could tell yah. Because your affirmation that because I say that the AH MA is a vulcher place where dweebish tactics rule, I'm calling you a dweeb, is even more full of crap than you.
</rant mode off>
[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 06-02-2001).]
-
ram... look at the people who are quiting. You say you have flown all types of planes this tour and.... you also are not quitting. go ahead... have a seperate HA arena. I believe that they are boring in the extreme with no variety and very little skill simply a repetition of a couple of worn out moves. They are never "historical" in any way except possibly plane set. There are no missions or... the mainstay of "historical" air combat, the finger four. to compound this idiocy... the planesets are allways lopsided except for possibly the BOB era. Most times you have German planes flying with jap planes to flesh out the sets. Who wants to duplicate the utter dominance of 190's in '42? How fun is that? sure... you could add the 51A but then everyone would be in 51a's and 190's. How Historical is that? Everyone flying D9's toward the end? real "imersive" eh? Sure, there may be 60-200 guys that want an HA but they are scattered all over the world. different time zones would make 200 in the MA and 12-20 in the HA during prime time, less, when the planesets were at their most lopsided...Kid yourself about why you want an HA but leave me out of it.
lazs
-
I'm not quitting because I am darned addicted to online flight sims and there is none out there wich offers more than AH for now. But if WWIIOL ends being what they promise it will be, or TK is half the realistic as it seems it will be, that will change in the future. I look forward to a sim wich gives me the feeling of "being there" 24/7.
AH could well be that sim with a proper HA, because it has all the ingredients; from a great group of men and women developing it, to a very nice base to work with from the start (currently a 1942-1945 RPS is PERFECTLY possible for an HA, with some exceptions -tanks, SP AAA and C47s-.
But sadly seems it wont be that way and that in the foreseeable future there will be no AH. WWIIOL is about to be launched, we'll see. and TK will be soon there, and I'm sure that there will be arenas set by hosts for pure hardcore lovers without gameplay concessions. I DARNED wish to stay in AH, but if I have to go to find what I am looking for, I'll have to go. But at least I wont go without trying to get it here.
I've tried two times to quit AH and I've failed miserably in both because I missed the feeling of flying with hundreds of people online. After less than 2 weeks I had withdrawals of that feeling,so I had to return.
I have now 2 options to choose between: WBs, or AH.
And as flying none of both is not an option right now, I have to go with the second.
From there, and to be fully satisfied, there are light years of separation, so get yer things straight.
BTW I flew non-LW iron for a change, to see if I had some fun with something else. It didnt work. So I guess its not the planes, but the environment.
[edit]ah, lazs, noone asked you to join the HA...you will have your MA perfectly set for you[/edit]
[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 06-02-2001).]
-
[ 08-07-2001: Message edited by: zapkin ]
-
Just for the sake of argument..
When I made the poll about the HA, about 70 people said yes. 2 or 3 said no way.. Is that what we call the loud minority?
Secondly, in that *cough* other sim, when a reasonably built WW2 arena was introduced (rps, axis vs allied, reduced icons) it left the main arena _and_ historic arena empty. 95% of players were really enthusiastic about it, rest squeaked a while and then left.
I'd say that generally players were left satisfied anyway.
Wouldn't it be possible to make a test over a few days, set up the HA alongside of the main arena. In HA you would have the axis vs allied planeset (even with no RPS since AH has very few early birds..), _reduced icons_ and no inflight dar, but full dot dar at tower?
During those few days we'd soon see what the trend will be and where people WANT to spend their time. If it sucks to most ppl, they'll stop joining it after a day or two. If they like it, numbers will stay high.
I'm pretty sure the SEA could easily be converted temporarily into an open HA.
-
Whatever RAM, and no I don't have to apologize, no matter what you think.
You gave an opinion about something I like, and I told you that you had your head up your ass.
Why should I go back on it? "Dweeb ACM"? Really? Do you KNOW what in the hell you are talking about? No, you don't.
I've been playing online games since '95, never have I seen such a regressive person. "They don't play my way, they must be dweebs and have no skill" Really, get your head out of your ass. You'll find more guys that can outfly you with both of their eyes closed in the MA than you could ever imagine (apparently, you are having a hard enough time seeing the forest for the trees) and you decide, knowing how clean your past is, that you have the priveledge to label anyone or anything?
Maybe if you could offer up an idea without adding in your 2 cent drivel, worthless opinion of what you think about the current people and arena- then maybe, JUST MAYBE... I dunno I'm going out on a limb here.. you might actually get more support. But you threw in your typical whine, squeak and complaint that is typical of you just to "support" your self proclaimed facts of what is better or "more immersive" or "more realistic"... whatever the hell the new catch phrase is for something that you believe emulates a war being represented by pixels.
Crawl back into your hole with Otter, you two make a real cute couple. Neither of you have any idea what they are talking about, and neither of you have any inclination to understand what I am talking about.
-SW
[This message has been edited by SeaWulfe (edited 06-02-2001).]
-
It's always the same ones flaming each other. Amazing how it makes it seem like the whole board is ablaze with attacking posts! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
The HA would be a very fun thing, however it's not time for it. When there are 190 people in the MA and only 20-30 in a special event, then obviously most people playing at that time prefer the MA over the Axis-Allied scenario. Either that or they just don't know what scenarios are, or are just too timid to go try it out. Also, maybe they just aren't interested in THAT particular scenario at the time. I wasn't interested in doing the Yamamoto snapshot, e.g. When we start seeing 50+ people leave the MA for the events, then maybe we're starting to see a real interest in historical matchups.
Now, as to the point of the people who can't make the scenarios, I agree on that. They're held at very awkward times for anyone but US players. 10pm ET on a friday is damn early saturday morning for Euro players, and I don't have a clue what it is for the Asian players, maybe Saturday afternoon? 3pm ET on the weekend afternoons is late evening for the Euro people, who probably want to have a life outside of gaming and go out and do RL things. It's probably in the middle of the night for Asians. Anyways, my point is maybe try running replays of the events on the same day. Run it twice, one at 1500 GMT and then again at the 3pm ET. If there's enough support, run it a 3rd time (a first time actually) in the afternoon of Asian times. It's just a suggestion to help out those who say the events happen at bad times for them.
-
Once again, let me tell you an idea that is in the middle of the road. Make each country have a goon, a fighter, an attack plane, a jabo, and a heavy bomber, then change the arena to the style in FA. There'll be an infrastructure (trains, truck convoys, rail stations, railways) to attack for those who love mudmoving. As long as there's air, there'll be dogfights. Add more factories that are capturable. Make server-controlled tank attacks. Add small towns to the map. And if a certain percent of a town, airfield, railstation, or factory is destroyed (including structures and not acks), then a server controlled tank attack is started. Or just level the field acks and send in a goon.
Divide the arena into 6 countries:
U.S.
Great Britain
U.S.S.R.
Japan
Germany
Italy
You'd only be able to fly planes of a certain nationality, depending upon the country you are playing for--eliminating spit vs. spit fights and niki vs. zeke fights.
So just convert the MA into an arena that will satisfy HA-goers and MA-goers: one similar to the arena in FA--and it won't be Axis vs. Allies--it'll be country vs. country.
[This message has been edited by DocFalconer1 (edited 06-04-2001).]
-
well the Snapshots and the check6 events were good again this past weekend. I attended 2 of them. However the attendance for the snapshots were measely..what a shame that when the idea of an HA gets so hotly disputed and so much energy expended over ti and the attendance for the only working historical scenarios is soo pitiful.
Hipocrits
-
Originally posted by -ammo-:
Hipocrits
Yes they are.
-SW
-
here are the problems with an HA... first, except for plansets there is nothing "historical" about it, no one flys historicaly in any arena I have ever seen.
second.. they divide people. Squads that don't all want to fly the same plane will be split.
third.. they are boring. WWII air combat was boring except that it was serious business. everyone was in the same planes and everyone used the same tactics. Runnig into something new was a bad thing cause your life depended on it...I love history but I can read it.. I don't like to attempt to re-create it in such a blasphemous way. Anyone who is "immersed" in an HA is either totally lacking in imagination or knowledge of history or both.
fourth... no gameplay. except for very thin slices of the RPS there is no parity. One sides planes allways have an advantage over the others. If you try to balance out the planesets it begins to become silly with jap and german planes flying together or the sky full of D9's even though only a couple hundred ever got airborne. every FM or gunnery feature is suspect and viewed as a cheat by the other side.
There are many more reasons but boredom, lack of parity and poor gameplay are the main ones with an overall divisiveness that put's people into an even bigger rut than the MA
Sure, run one allongside the MA but why not just go to WB's? There are a few slices of their RPS that are fun but it just wasn't worth it to me. One side allways had an "uber plane" and the other side just had to lump it. I recall seeing numbers like 100 on one side and 30 on the other. I think HTC is smart in not dividing up the people. There are some who will never be happy unless they can "feel" like they are a WWII pilot. Which means... they will never be happy but.. they will make it misserable for everyone else along the way. The closer we get to an HA.... the less fun we will have.
lazs
-
No HA is why I dont play AH. Period.
I really dont understand why so many of you are violently opposed to having another arena option opened up? If you dont like, dont fly in it.
Fang
JG26