Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: mietla on April 05, 2004, 05:31:05 PM
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It is almost twice more expensive, but the oil change guys are pushing it of course.
What's the value? is it worth it?
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Originally posted by mietla
It is almost twice more expensive, but the oil change guys are pushing it of course.
What's the value? is it worth it?
Some engines it is required (My M54 requires synthetic)
If you're not running your engine hard, or its not required by the manufacturer, IMO its a waste of money.
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Incidently,did any of you catch the Consumers Reports article on engine oil a couple years ago?
It was really great, they took 30? NYC taxi's (you and I both know NYC taxi drivers are probably much worse drivers we are) and tore the engines down and rebuilt them. Then they miked all the wear spots on the parts before reassembly.
They put a couple on every major mfgr's oil, several on synthetics and some on additive's like slick 50 and such.
CR changed the oil at the recommended intervals, making sure that all vehicles received the correct oil that had been assigned to it and that they topped it off with the same stuff between changes. Seems like they even had a coulple that didn't receive regular interval oil changes.
After 30 -50K miles (can't remember exactly) they tore all the engines down and miked them again for wear to compare the original readings.
Bottom line no difference at all. CR said buy an oil rated for gas engines and get the right viscosity, change it according to your manual. But buy whatever is on sale because it doesn't matter the oil isn't broken down at the recommended interval. It especially doesn't matter if you buy a vehicle and then trade it when it gets 60-70K miles on it.
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I saw a small article in the UK about electric cars (think there's a post about it here somewhere) no road tax and (apparently) car parks have free charge points.
Electricity is much more efficient than oil for running cars. We should be using oil for making plastics and other items we don't have the option for.
Ravs
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If your're having a modern car (say younger than 10y) you should think using synthetics, especially if you're going to keep that car for longer.
It's clear that with synthetic oil the engine wears less than with mineral oil. If the temperature where you live changes a lot that's another reason to use good quality synthetic oils, some better brands flow well at -35c dgr temp when mineral oils are solid at -20dgr... My old car had problems to start at winters but after switching to Castrol GTX the problems were history. Starter just run out of power with those stiff mineral oils.
If you're driving older wreck you can use waste oil if you want and use a taxi at winters :)
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'98 Ford Explorer, California
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btw my Peugeot needs oil changes after every 30.000km/18600 miles but only with synthetics.
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Well then temperature is not an issue... What does you car's manual say about the oils?
Anyways synthetics are keeping their characteristics longer than mineral oils so if you change oils at every 5k with mineral oils you could propably safely extend the oil change to 7-8k or even longer.
Edit: Synthetic oils didn't work too well with some older engines; some GM engines begun leaking oil from every seam and some hydraulic valve lifters were too slack/loose for "thin" synth.oils thought these were '70s engines...
Better ask what local Ford dealer suggests.
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The cost differential is not worth it even with a doubled change interval.
It works the same for aircraft as well. Light Plane Maintenance did a study and saw no apreciable difference for the typical recip.
In gear cases and transmissions it does boost the change interval and in auto trany's it will help maintain oil properties at higher temperatures.
Biggest thing you can do for your engine is to warm it up slowly, let it cool down in idle, particularly for turbo equiped cars and change the oil and filter regularly.
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Originally posted by ravells
I saw a small article in the UK about electric cars (think there's a post about it here somewhere) no road tax and (apparently) car parks have free charge points.
Electricity is much more efficient than oil for running cars. We should be using oil for making plastics and other items we don't have the option for.
Ravs
Electricity doesnt come for free, you would just be transfering the pollution creation from your exhaust pipe to the electrical plant as they would have to make the energy in the first place. Plus in order to create the extra electricity we would need to build numerous new generation plants, which is easy enough, but then again nobody wants them around their neghborhood so they wouldnt be and arent built. Second, with electric cars becoming dominant there would be an exponential jump in the demand for batteries which are extremely toxic. This would create a huge waste problem as these batteries need to be recyled and of course manafuctured.
So electric cars really arent such a dream solution.
Hybirid cars on the other hand provide a nice usable boos in fuel economy with far fewer environmental problems.
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I use Royal Purple snynthetic in my focus
I get better gas milage engine runs cooler and marginal performance(reves Free faster).
I change every 4K they say I can go 5K
but i drive the watermelon out of this little car so I change early.
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Wind farms? Geothermal energy? Electricity is pretty efficient in converting energy into an energy 'lingua franca'.
Batteries can be recharged/recycled, can't they?
What is a hybrid car? sounds intersting. Saw something in 'Scientific American' about an engine that could run on water...is that it?
Ravs
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I know back In 95 chevy would void ur warranty If you did not use mobile one or another approved synth oil.
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Originally posted by ravells
Wind farms? Geothermal energy? Electricity is pretty efficient in converting energy into an energy 'lingua franca'.
Batteries can be recharged/recycled, can't they?
What is a hybrid car? sounds intersting. Saw something in 'Scientific American' about an engine that could run on water...is that it?
Ravs
Now if they could make a car run on methane from your arse we woould all be set.:aok
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Damn right with the Vindaloos I eat these days! :aok
Ravs
p.s. do you know what a vindaloo is?
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I decided long time ago that when I'm changing the oils I use best oil I can find. The cost is not that much when you know that if something happens it's not because of crappy oil or because I wanted to save twenty bucks.
Same goes with gasoline, local technical magazine has been testing the quality of fuel distributed by different oil companies and there used to be big differencies between brands: some engines got crust in their intake valves and piston tops while with some brands the engines were staying more clean.
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Originally posted by ravells
Wind farms? Geothermal energy? Electricity is pretty efficient in converting energy into an energy 'lingua franca'.
Batteries can be recharged/recycled, can't they?
What is a hybrid car? sounds intersting. Saw something in 'Scientific American' about an engine that could run on water...is that it?
Ravs
Windfarms were a great idea till environmetalists decided that they killed too many birds...
Geothermal is nice and needs to looked into, but i suspect there would similar complaints to oil drilling etc...
Solar power is neat except that if we put panels or energy directing mirrors all over the place they would relect solar heat back into the atmospher and cause huge problems.
Sure batteries can be recharged but even those wear out, so with hundreds of millions of cars that will become a problem. they can be recycled, but that doesnt mean people will comply or that enough capacity will exist to recycle them.
Hybrid cars are those with a small gasoline engine augmented with an electric motor and some limited battery capacity. TYhe electric motor and gas engine are seamlessly integrated with each shutting off and firing up as needed. It improves fuel economy and is much easier to implement than all electric cars at thsi time, yet it is too expensive for mass production now. The few that are made and marketed incurr huge losses for automakers like toyota and honda, but ghose are made up by govt subsidies.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
[B
Hybrid cars are those with a small gasoline engine augmented with an electric motor and some limited battery capacity. TYhe electric motor and gas engine are seamlessly integrated with each shutting off and firing up as needed. It improves fuel economy and is much easier to implement than all electric cars at thsi time, yet it is too expensive for mass production now. The few that are made and marketed incurr huge losses for automakers like toyota and honda, but ghose are made up by govt subsidies. [/B]
Yeah Im all for the Hybrids.
I dont know why we (the USA) Is not pouring cash into the further development of these Hello GM FORD!!
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Well, I havn't seen the complaint about windfarms killing birds yet.
Point is....that oil (in our lifetimes) is irreplaceable and has more uses than just fuel for cars. It's a waste to use it for that if we have other options.
Hybrids sound like a good idea...for us to get away from oil and into electricity.
Ravs
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the difference is that synthetic oil doesnt smoke when it burns. so the used car salesmen use it to cover up a bad motor.
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I don't think there's any difference in performance between dino and synth oils, however synth oil can filter better and last longer. You can get the Amsoil system and not change your oil for 20,000 - 40,000 miles ... just gotta change the filter every 6 months. I haven't seen any dino oil that can do that.
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Well some friends of mine took home movies of them picking up a hooker and taking her to a motel where that all proceeded to well you know.
Well anyways in the process they poured motor oil all over her I think it was penzoil. They said for those activities they prefered petrolium based oils.
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Never poured synthetic oil over a hooker so I can't say how good it is for that but I do use Mobil1 in my 'vette. I change it every 3k miles although I honestly don't drive it a heck of a lot. The engine itself is only a couple of years old, but the old mill had 98000 miles on it w/ mobil1 and was still runnin great when I yanked it.
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Yup when I usewd to sell chevys In 95 It clearly said under the hood use Mobil1 .
And In you Manuel It said the same.
Vetts like synthetics.
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in 1985 I bought a brand new Ford Ranger P/U 2.8L V6. From the first oil change I used synthetics. After 670,000 odd miles and 15 yrs later the truck rusted away. never burned oil never lost much compression never replaced any gaskets changed the oil every 6000 miles. Been running synthetics ever since.
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I use Anal Lube on all my moving parts. Not only does it decrease temperature but it also reduces friction, and that's important if you have a date with "The Stranger."
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Originally posted by Airhead
I use Anal Lube on all my moving parts. Not only does it decrease temperature but it also reduces friction, and that's important if you have a date with "The Stranger."
I wondered how you kept your mouth so cool.
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ravells...
the cars that run on "water" are fuel cell cars...they use hydrogen unfortunatly we dont exactly have a ready supply of hydrogen...once we get efficiency on them up they should be usable though...
anyway we have over 100 years of oil left (more if we can figure out how to get at deeper oil in the alberta tar sands)...not to much but it should be enough to get other methods up and running...
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Originally posted by Airhead
I use Anal Lube on all my moving parts. Not only does it decrease temperature but it also reduces friction, and that's important if you have a date with "The Stranger."
does it taste good?
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:rofl
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Changed the oil every 6000 and you got 600k miles out of it?
A miracle.
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The big thing about running synthetic is run it from the time the car is new. An engine running petroleum based oil for a long period should not be switched to synthetic. The seals will not be accustomed to the additives and they will leak.
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Actually when running sythetic oils, you want to thoroughly break in your engine first. Never run synthetic with a brand new engine. Synthetic oils are more stable in composition and so last longer. They also handle heat better. Synthetic oils are better they just cost more. I only use synthetic oils now.
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Wonder if my 97 Nissa Quest with a 144k miles on the engine would care either way. :D
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Wind Farms...
classic two faced liberal crap..
lok it up..
They wanted to put up a wind farm off the coast in NE..Ted Keenedy said HELLLLL NO..uits too ugly in my Back yard...
But he will tell You Bush is Satan!!!! and no war for OIL!!
lolol
btw..i had an old diesel Benzo...it leaked about a quart every 400 miles..i figured that was an oil change enuff:)
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Originally posted by Airhead
I use Anal Lube on all my moving parts. Not only does it decrease temperature but it also reduces friction, and that's important if you have a date with "The Stranger."
:aok
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I use it in both my cars and their drivetrrains... I change it about every 4K.
Dyno tests allways show an increase in HP and heat doesn't kill synthetic as quickly. I need every break I can get with my engines and drivetrains. Might not be worth it in stock low reving, lightly loaded engines.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
I use it in both my cars and their drivetrrains... I change it about every 4K.
Dyno tests allways show an increase in HP and heat doesn't kill synthetic as quickly. I need every break I can get with my engines and drivetrains. Might not be worth it in stock low reving, lightly loaded engines.
lazs
Lazs runs his cars hard, he'd benefit from synthetic, IMO. Anyone that tracks a car, or autocrosses as well.
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5,000 miles/6 months is the maximum change interval for mineral oils. If you do change it regularly then there is no big difference in engine wear, IF the climate is not too cold or warm. Mineral oils just don't have the viscosity index needed for extreme temperatures.
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I just drove to our summer-home and back; 120km highway followed by 20km of small curvy roads (http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/P4060016.jpg)... one hour trip to there and another hour back and I enjoyed every moment. I love spring time :)
Edit: Why are tacho-meters having all those numbers? I'd be okay with tacho showing RPMs from 4,5k to 6,5k :)
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I use Mobil 1 in my engines and Redline products in trannys and differentials. Only change engine every 6000 miles, change drivetrain stuff about every 30k. Drain a diff with dino oil after 30k, and drain and diff with synthetic after 30k....you can see the difference. I run my cars hard and plan on keeping em for a looong time, the extra few $$ a couple of times a year is worth it.
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stega..only thing i use the lower numbers for is well 2 things..
crusing in 5th gear at 95mph at 2,300 rpm..good gas mileage
and i have a large draw of electricty on my battery..sweeett reggae base...the battery does not get a charge unless you are at 1, 100 rpm..,y idle is about 700 i think..so if im stopped soemwhere for awhile i ususly keep my charge goin..
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I change oil, synthetic in the 'vette, regular oil in my Dakota and wife's Saturn every 3000 miles. I'm changing it too often? at least more often than necessary?
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Originally posted by Steve
I change oil, synthetic in the 'vette, regular oil in my Dakota and wife's Saturn every 3000 miles. I'm changing it too often? at least more often than necessary?
Look at it this way Steve.
oil Is cheap engines are not.:)
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Steve what does your manual say about oil changes?
Anyways synthetics last much longer than 3000miles, my car needs a oil change at every 18.700 miles... I'm changing them once in a year because I'm driving less than that in a year with that car.
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Yep, good synthetics will last 10,000 miles/1 year in almost any engine and sometimes much longer. In the US the service intervals are shorter because of lower quality oil. Infact it's a good way for manufacturers to milk the customers by not demanding the use of synthetics, as they can require shorter service intervals. All the new gasoline powered cars sold here have 12,500 ml or 18,500 ml service intervals.
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The function of oil, besides the obvious lubricating properties is also to suspend and neutralize the by-products of combustion and other contaminants that make their way into the engine.
The oil filter strains out a portion of these but in time it (the filter) becomes clogged from these harmful deposits. Once the filter cloggs up then the oil in the engine will continue to flow but it will no longer be filtered. Guess where these harmful deposits end up.
The maximum I would go with an oil change interval would be 3 months irrespective of miles/hours driven. This is because as your engine cools water condenses within it. This water when combined with the combustion by-products becomes an acid. This acid wreaks havoc with your crankshaft bearings and other moving parts. The water also causes electrolisys between dissimilar metals. Frequent use at operating temperatures evaporates the moisture therefore in that sense frequent use is beneficial to the overall life of an engine.
The less you drive a vehicle the more important it becomes to change your oil frequently.
I sometimes drive up to 200 miles in a day and seldom less than 100 miles every day, 6 days a week. I drive fairly fast (70-80 mph/ 120-140 kph on the interstates slightly slower on county roads and a little slower still on streets and parking lots) given the conditions and if they permit as I live in a high poplulation density area. many of the my fellow motorists are from the third world and are known to de driving at under 40 mph/75 kph on the interstates and even slower on the county roads. I try to sprint past these types of drivers to obtain a better position at the next light. I can usually cross town in a fraction of the time it takes other drivers to cover the same distances. I do quite a bit of up and down shifting consequently.
My engines get a great workout every week. As I've stated before I manage to have structural failure on my vehicles due to oxydization but never engine failures. Current vehicle is a 1999 Toyota Tacoma current mileage is 240,000 + Never fails. And yes I'm sure this exceeds the Mfg's. MTBF expectataions. Do you think I'll get as many miles from the Toyota as I did from the Ford? The Toyota is already showing some rust.
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"The function of oil, besides the obvious lubricating properties is also to suspend and neutralize the by-products of combustion and other contaminants that make their way into the engine.
The oil filter strains out a portion of these but in time it (the filter) becomes clogged from these harmful deposits. Once the filter cloggs up then the oil in the engine will continue to flow but it will no longer be filtered. Guess where these harmful deposits end up. "
Correct. If you use the same filter long enough that's what happens, that will take 20,000 miles though. That is why engines with longer oil change intervals are fitted with bigger filters.
"The maximum I would go with an oil change interval would be 3 months irrespective of miles/hours driven. This is because as your engine cools water condenses within it. This water when combined with the combustion by-products becomes an acid. This acid wreaks havoc with your crankshaft bearings and other moving parts. The water also causes electrolisys between dissimilar metals. Frequent use at operating temperatures evaporates the moisture therefore in that sense frequent use is beneficial to the overall life of an engine. "
That is an issue...but 3 moths is overkill. If you wan't to be on the safe side then you might want to change it every 6 months.
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I use mobil one and redline.
I change oil every 4 months or so regardless.. the reason that you can't use synthetic in a new engine is because it prevents heat and wear so well that nothing will seat.
lazs
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I use Mobil One 5w30 in the winter, and 15w50 in the summer. I seem to get better mileage using the synthetic, and for cold weather starting, nothing is better.
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I use Valvolene 15W40, but I also add Prolong (http://www.prolong.com/). That stuff is GREAT!
(http://www.prolong.com/images/2300_11100_lg.jpg)