Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: AKFokerFoder+ on April 05, 2004, 07:22:41 PM
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Does anyone know when the F4U will be available in AH2?
I have downloaded the game, but wasn't overly awed. Just seemed like a pretty make-over of AH1. Other than having to upgrade my computer, I guess all I will have to do is learn the new FM. :)
But on the subject of the Corsairs. In the WW2 and Korea, it was a kick butt plane, in AH it has been either emasculated, or perked, (or both), to keep it from dominating the arena. :(
I just hope that the AH2 F4U-D has been given it's balls back. Although making a realistically competitive hog could adversely effect game play.
There is always the reality vs. game play issue, and game play pays the bills. :(
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Yup doed seem like the corsairs have been clipped a bit.
Oh hey Murphy Tx here.
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
Does anyone know when the F4U will be available in AH2?
I have downloaded the game, but wasn't overly awed. Just seemed like a pretty make-over of AH1. Other than having to upgrade my computer, I guess all I will have to do is learn the new FM. :)
But on the subject of the Corsairs. In the WW2 and Korea, it was a kick butt plane, in AH it has been either emasculated, or perked, (or both), to keep it from dominating the arena. :(
I just hope that the AH2 F4U-D has been given it's balls back. Although making a realistically competitive hog could adversely effect game play.
There is always the reality vs. game play issue, and game play pays the bills. :(
Yes, All F4U is already in AH2 Beta, but i believe it not finish to work on F4Us and the rest of the planes.
Yup, Corsair kick butt in WWII and Korean War. :D
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But on the subject of the Corsairs. In the WW2 and Korea, it was a kick butt plane, in AH it has been either emasculated, or perked, (or both), to keep it from dominating the arena.
??
The f4u-D/1 is one of the best fighters in the MA and against the slow N1K, zeke, or Ki it is completly dominant.
How is it "emasculated"?
The F4U-4 is perked and rightly so. You may argue the price but it IS a monster and it's a rare 1945 plane.
Bozon
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One of my best ToD (Squad Ops now) one life event runs was in a F4U, IIRC it over 10 kills, with around 7 or more being Niki's and the rest being Zekes and Ki61's. My other personal best was in the 190.
The Hawg is an awesome ride - you just got to fly her with a gentle touch.
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
Does anyone know when the F4U will be available in AH2?
I have downloaded the game, but wasn't overly awed. Just seemed like a pretty make-over of AH1. Other than having to upgrade my computer, I guess all I will have to do is learn the new FM. :)
But on the subject of the Corsairs. In the WW2 and Korea, it was a kick butt plane, in AH it has been either emasculated, or perked, (or both), to keep it from dominating the arena. :(
I just hope that the AH2 F4U-D has been given it's balls back. Although making a realistically competitive hog could adversely effect game play.
There is always the reality vs. game play issue, and game play pays the bills. :(
This post is a classic example of an aircraft fan taking his pet aircraft out of its historical situation and being shocked that it doesn't live up to the "History Channel" billing.
To say the F4U kicked bellybutton (it did) without looking at all the reasons why it did is silly. There were numerous reasons, from the great performance that it had (and has in AH) to the fact that it was fighting a universally slower and nearly universally undertrained opposition. In AH it has neither of those advantages, and thus doesn't perform as dominantly as it did historically.
Personally, I dislike the F4U. It feels sluggish, but that may be the laid back engine audio file I use for it. Despite that I also find it one of the easiest aircraft to succeed in.
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All personal shots at me will be ignored, sorry, but trolling for a flame war doesn't work with me.
The Hog did well in Korea as well as WW2 these are facts. American pilots were quite well trained, and did very well in combat, another fact. Subjective speculations do not alter the facts. But really, what has historical data got to do with AH? I realize that AH is just a first person shooter with a WW2 fighter theme.
Maybe you didn't fly the Hog in the earlier versions of AH.?? I did, then I quit AH (because of work not the game), and have just came back in. The whining about the Hog in the early days was pathetic. HiTech then perked the C Hog and porked the FM on both the D and C. The new Hog is sluggish, plain and simple, very poor acceleration even with your nose pointed at the deck. That is fact. (I never fly the F4U-4 that perk plane icon is an invite to getting gang banged.)
It seems to me that HiTech also porked the FM on the NIKI, it certainly seems to blackout very easily. I guess it is easier to tweek the FM than perk the ride. HT has a customer base, and it needs to give a good gaming experience.
And that is why I fly the planes whose FM is most suited to the gang-bang or be gang-banged furballing MA. Those tend to be fast planes with big guns like the LA7, 190D9 and Pony D, now and then a 190A8 (with it's awesome firepower for busting PT boats). I take a C hog now and then for carrier attacks.
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I haven't yet done anything to the F4U's in AH2. Why don't you quantify what your beef is rather than troll for a flame war?
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AKfokerFoder, We never "Tweek" a flight model for game play. The only resone we ever change A flight model is because new data is given to us making us change our mind on performance, or test were run showing somthing dosn't match the performce we think it has.
All planes black out at the exact same G load.
How about before you start throwing around the porked term, you do just a little bit of testing, data look up, and try describe in some inteligent form what excatly you think is wrong with a model.
Because we do not pull this stuff out of the air, we do do research, and do spend a fair amout of time testing performance. It's not that we can't be wrong, but before claming we are, you could at the very least put some effort into backing your claims up.
HiTech
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Well I guess I will apologize to Hi Tech if you don't pork FMs for game play. I was certainly under that impression.
It was also my impression was that the FM of both the C and D hogs is different than in the earlier versions of AH. It just seems more sluggish than the earlier versions, especially in the area of acceleration. The Hog also now has to fight against models like the LA7 which I don't believe were in the earlier versions(of AH). I can't remember, but I think the 190D9 was in the earlier versions. I never flew that one back then.
You can still make some decent kills in the F4, it handles so well at speed, just hard to get it there (at speed). I had a LA7 at d3000 something, maybe with 2k alt , I pointed the hog at the deck to get up speed, and it was like I was dragging a parachute. By the time I got to 500 mph he was a little over d1000 and closing. I got to my carrier ack missing some flaps, but otherwise in good shape. Bogie broke off, I went to a vehicle field to land and died landing due to a ground loop :rofl
And no this isn't a troll for a flame war, or a troll to perk the LA7
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
It was also my impression was that the FM of both the C and D hogs is different than in the earlier versions of AH. It just seems more sluggish than the earlier versions, especially in the area of acceleration.
IIRC a couple hundred (500 or 800) pounds was added to the C-hog around the time it got perked. Not to pork it, but because it had been modelled incorrectly before. Dunno if the same thing happened to the D-hog.
That could explain the sluggish feeling if you've been gone a while... you may remember the lightweight "version."
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The F4U in AH is not faster than every opposing plane. This is in stark contrast to it's historical environment where it was usually able to outdive and outrun everyone if things went wrong.
Your conclusion "teH F4U suxx0rs" because it isn't always successful with the same tactics used in WW2 is based on the wrong assumption of the MA being a historical environment. It is not. Special Events and the CT are - and you'll find the Hog totally dominates it's historical opposition in those setups - just like it's supposed to be.
In the MA things are a lot more complicated most fighters are, however, able to outrun what they can't outturn and outturn what they can't outrun.
Some planes keep a above average capability of "turn" and "run" in one package and the La7 is certainly one of them - you need to be creative here.
In your encounter you played the game to your opponents strength - the La7s game is speed on the deck and brutal acceleration. The F4U, will readily own the La7 in high speed maneuvers, in barrel rolls and in slow turns with flaps wide open. (facturing in the average La7 pilot quality :) )
Stick to it, relearn it's strengths, be gentle on controls and the Hog will reward your patience.
The F4U is a handful to fly and difficult to master but it does not need to fear a single La7.
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That extra 800 pounds may be why it also feels nose heavy in a climb.
In the earlier vesions I used the C Hog a lot for tank busting, and the D hog for general dog fighting even non-carrier fighting. They were pretty nice planes. I can't seem to bust tanks with Hispanos nowadays, even Flack Panzers seem like harder targets. Generally I now stay away from attacking gvs other than PT boats, as I die a lot.
Now I stick mostly to the LA7, 190D9 and Pony D. I tend to fly the winning aircraft, as these planes help make up for my general inability to dog fight.
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Leitwolf:
Stick to it, relearn it's strengths, be gentle on controls and the Hog will reward your patience.
That kinda makes me want to give the Hog another look. I used to fly it almost exclusively in the MA both C and D. The D used to handle a bit better than the C, which more than made up for it's lack of cannons.
On carrier ops I have been using the F6F a bit, nice ride, but I may go back to trying the hog.
BTW how I survived the ride to my ack and my buddies with the LA7 closing was due to the high speed manuverablity of the hog, that and it's ability to hold e.
Thanks for you encouragement. There is a lot of difference between the old AH and today. And not all of it is bad by any means.
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There have been many armor changes for the vehicles as well, so that explains your tank busting issues.
Try the CT on a pacific week with the f4u. If you can find a japanese plane up when the allies have the f4u you will see why it has such a great rep.
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
All personal shots at me will be ignored, sorry, but trolling for a flame war doesn't work with me.
The Hog did well in Korea as well as WW2 these are facts. American pilots were quite well trained, and did very well in combat, another fact. Subjective speculations do not alter the facts. But really, what has historical data got to do with AH? I realize that AH is just a first person shooter with a WW2 fighter theme.
Maybe you didn't fly the Hog in the earlier versions of AH.?? I did, then I quit AH (because of work not the game), and have just came back in. The whining about the Hog in the early days was pathetic. HiTech then perked the C Hog and porked the FM on both the D and C. The new Hog is sluggish, plain and simple, very poor acceleration even with your nose pointed at the deck. That is fact. (I never fly the F4U-4 that perk plane icon is an invite to getting gang banged.)
It seems to me that HiTech also porked the FM on the NIKI, it certainly seems to blackout very easily. I guess it is easier to tweek the FM than perk the ride. HT has a customer base, and it needs to give a good gaming experience.
And that is why I fly the planes whose FM is most suited to the gang-bang or be gang-banged furballing MA. Those tend to be fast planes with big guns like the LA7, 190D9 and Pony D, now and then a 190A8 (with it's awesome firepower for busting PT boats). I take a C hog now and then for carrier attacks.
F4U Corsair did little successfully in Korean War, but alot MIG-15 shot them down easily and so they just did well as F-51D Mustang in 1950s.
Vought F4U-1C Corsair was the first Corsair to have 20mm M2 Cannon and only two squadron use F4U-1C during before WWII ended. Also, there couple problems on F4U-1C and they engine died couple times and also again their guns already froze when enter 15k Alt Feet. So, they stay under 10k and was better suited to ground attack mission like F4U-6/AU-1 Corsair. Only 200 of them were made in 1944.
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The F4U1 is a great plane for the MA. If I can keep a 5/2 kd in it, the good pilots should be able to kick butt in it.
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#1 The Korean War F4U was the F4U-5 which AH does not have.
#2 If you want to see what the F4U could do in WW2 get out of the MA. It didnt fight P-51s and LA-7s it fought Japanese planes. Thats the cause I think for all the complaints about it being under modelled. Fly it in the CT or in a SEA event where it fights a historical opponent, ie, A6M5, Ki-61, N1K-2.
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Flown against its historical opponents, A6M2, A6M5, and Ki61, it utterly dominates them, just as it did in WWII.
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I think this post should be about the A6M5 not the F4U!
As far as FM tweeking, I think the zeros are a bit "tweeked" in damage model! I always get fuel leak hits on them. If the damage model was correct, those fuel leaks would blow up as it should! FM may not be padded but the damage model sure the he11 has to be.
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Its an A6M5b. Do a search you might learn something.
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Or... you could have just told him about the extinguisher.
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Originally posted by Squire
#1 The Korean War F4U was the F4U-5 which AH does not have.
#2 If you want to see what the F4U could do in WW2 get out of the MA. It didnt fight P-51s and LA-7s it fought Japanese planes. Thats the cause I think for all the complaints about it being under modelled. Fly it in the CT or in a SEA event where it fights a historical opponent, ie, A6M5, Ki-61, N1K-2.
Don't forget that AH don't have F4U-6/AU-1 and post war Korean War F4U-7.
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F4U Corsair did little successfully in Korean War, but alot MIG-15 shot them down easily and so they just did well as F-51D Mustang in 1950s.
The marines would argue that statement to death.
The F4u's kicked bellybutton in close support. Saved thousands of marine lives.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
The marines would argue that statement to death.
The F4u's kicked bellybutton in close support. Saved thousands of marine lives.
That's true about Marines would argue statement to death, but what I read about Captain Jess G. Folmar of VMA/VMF-312 "Checkerboarders," was suprised to be jumped by two MIG-15 jet fighter. He was probably on the way "Bombing Mission" before two MIG-15s jet fighter and then Folmar managed to shoot down one of these "Famous" jets, but got shot at by the second Mig his plane went out of control and the Capt Folmar preferred to bail out than risk ditching. So, I think he got Medal of Honor for that, but I ain't too sure about that and he was flying either F4U-4 or F4U-4B.
Rafe :)
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Actually it was 8 Migs to 2 Corsairs.
Fulmer was in a F4U-4B and his wingman was in a F4U-4 with .50 cals.
They used the Thatch weave were in the process off diving away when Fulmer was hit by 37 Mil cannon fire.
His wing was severly damaged but he did not loose control. He said it was difficult to control and bailed instead of risking a carrier landing.
I have the AAR report somewhere.
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Originally posted by F4UDOA
Actually it was 8 Migs to 2 Corsairs.
Fulmer was in a F4U-4B and his wingman was in a F4U-4 with .50 cals.
They used the Thatch weave were in the process off diving away when Fulmer was hit by 37 Mil cannon fire.
His wing was severly damaged but he did not loose control. He said it was difficult to control and bailed instead of risking a carrier landing.
I have the AAR report somewhere.
Heh, Thanks for better info, F4UDOA and I did thought it was 2 MIG-15, but I guess Corsair History was wrong where I study it couple times.
Thanks!
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There is a bias in AH community that the F4U was not a really good plane, but only kicked butt because it was flying against slow Zekes and other TnB type Japanese planes. Read above posts for details.
I would like to point out that the F4U is the only model in AH that has 50% of it's models perked. The unperked modles are an early and a mid war ride.
The Corsair above 400 mph still handles like a dream. I remember reading about some F4Us in Korea that went 2 on 2 with some Yaks, I think the model was later than the Yak 9, something like 10 or 11. The Yaks ate dirt.
In the MA the F4U early and mid war are expected to compete with the late war 190D9, Pony D, and LA7. And in the earlier versions of AH the F4U was quite competative (pre-perk, pre modified FM). And it while still is a competative bird I stick to the better non-perked aircraft in the game. That is the LA7, 190D9,
Pony D.
Why fly a mid war ride when you can have a monster? :)
Maybe if the C hog was cheaper, the perk icon was removed from the F4U-4 (and the cost lowered condsiderably), we would see a lot more Hogs and there would be fewer LA7s.