Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: NUKE on April 06, 2004, 05:21:20 AM
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3602921.stm
China veto angers HK democrats
"If that is so, then no freedom is safe because every clause in the Basic Law is subject to interpretation by the Standing Committee without notice."
Well, um..... DUH!
Made by the Standing Committee of China's National People's Congress (NPC) or parliament
Of over 150 members of the committee, only one is from Hong Kong
The ruling accepts the possibility of political change
But its stresses that change must be approved by Beijing
I see nothing wrong with this, Hong Kong is part of China now and China can do whatever it wants in Hong Kong. China will probably make Hong Kong into a much better place live and they don't need those pesky people poking their heads into China's affairs.
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Why is this true for Hong Kong and not Taiwan?
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Hong Kong is already a much better place to live and do business than 99.99% of China.
China can learn a lot more from HK than HK can from China. That being said China is the sovereign power there to it is up to them, but they'd be mich better off making China more like HK than making HK more like China.
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Originally posted by Pei
Hong Kong is already a much better place to live and do business than 99.99% of China.
China can learn a lot more from HK than HK can from China. That being said China is the sovereign power there to it is up to them, but they'd be mich better off making China more like HK than making HK more like China.
:aok
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Originally posted by Seeker
Why is this true for Hong Kong and not Taiwan?
Taiwan is a separate political nation. When the Communists overran China, the remainders of Chiang Kai Shek's forces fled to Taiwan and have been a thorn in the side of the Reds ever since.
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Originally posted by Pei
Hong Kong is already a much better place to live and do business than 99.99% of China.
China can learn a lot more from HK than HK can from China. That being said China is the sovereign power there to it is up to them, but they'd be mich better off making China more like HK than making HK more like China.
and the truth of capitalism is revealed.
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Originally posted by gofaster
Taiwan is a separate political nation. When the Communists overran China, the remainders of Chiang Kai Shek's forces fled to Taiwan and have been a thorn in the side of the Reds ever since.
According to the Chineese; Taiwan is nothing more than a rebellious rouge breakaway region; propped up by the West's tacit support for a corrupt fascist regime (Chiang Kai Shek).
They have repeatedly threatened invasion the minute Taiwan moves to independance.
So the question remains: Why is it better for Hong Kong to be subsumed into the PRK than for Taiwan?
Nuke wrote:
I see nothing wrong with this, Hong Kong is part of China now and China can do whatever it wants in Hong Kong. China will probably make Hong Kong into a much better place live and they don't need those pesky people poking their heads into China's affairs.
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Taiwan considers itself to be the legitimate seat of government for China. To declare independence is to relinquish that claim. Hong Kong on the other hand was a British colony which was returned to China. Big difference between these two.
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I figured that when China absorbed Hong Kong free enterprise would subvert the communists. Time will tell.
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Originally posted by AKIron
I figured that when China absorbed Hong Kong free enterprise would subvert the communists. Time will tell.
That is sort of happening: China is becoming a great economic power because they have started to allow free enterprise. Unfortunately they can't see the link between free markets, economic success and representative government.
In short the Communist Party likes the money but wants to hang onto the all the Power as well.
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A little bit of context is required:
A proper democracy would be great, but it's not like Hong Kong had any democracy at all before the UK & China agreed on a handover framework (naturally, Hong Kongers didn't get any say in those terms, either).
This little fact also rather destroys the assumption of a link between free markets, economic success and representative government. Because Hong Kong was an economic success way before there was any representative government here. Same goes for Taiwan. Although in Hong Kong, not only could you not vote for them, a lot of the government couldn't even speak, read or write Chinese then - very representative, Not!
So I do find myself wondering what it is you expect China to learn from HK?
Free Enterprise was introduced by Deng Xiaoping years before China got Hong Kong back, so it's not that.
China actually helped introduce democracy to Hong Kong, so it can't really be that either - Hong Kong knows next to nothing about democracy: we've only had political parties for 10 years. Even China beats that!
So as it's not democracy or free enterprise - what do we have that China can learn?
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Originally posted by -dead-
A little bit of context is required:
A proper democracy would be great, but it's not like Hong Kong had any democracy at all before the UK & China agreed on a handover framework (naturally, Hong Kongers didn't get any say in those terms, either).
This little fact also rather destroys the assumption of a link between free markets, economic success and representative government. Because Hong Kong was an economic success way before there was any representative government here. Same goes for Taiwan. Although in Hong Kong, not only could you not vote for them, a lot of the government couldn't even speak, read or write Chinese then - very representative, Not!
So I do find myself wondering what it is you expect China to learn from HK?
Free Enterprise was introduced by Deng Xiaoping years before China got Hong Kong back, so it's not that.
China actually helped introduce democracy to Hong Kong, so it can't really be that either - Hong Kong knows next to nothing about democracy: we've only had political parties for 10 years. Even China beats that!
So as it's not democracy or free enterprise - what do we have that China can learn?
How to make Kung Fu movies?
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Originally posted by AKIron
How to make Kung Fu movies?
Guess you haven't seen Zhang Yimou's "Hero" yet then. ;)
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I will defer to anyone from Hong Kong regarding anything Kung Fu. ;)
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Originally posted by -dead-
A proper democracy would be great, but it's not like Hong Kong had any democracy at all before the UK & China agreed on a handover framework (naturally, Hong Kongers didn't get any say in those terms, either).
I always understood that Hong Kong was only leased to the UK for 99 years, which ceased in 1997? I for one would love to have kept the close ties with HK, it was even the number 1 overseas posting for military staff.
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Originally posted by Replicant
I always understood that Hong Kong was only leased to the UK for 99 years, which ceased in 1997? I for one would love to have kept the close ties with HK, it was even the number 1 overseas posting for military staff.
It's a common misconception:
Hong Kong was ceded in perpetuity in 1842 as a result of the first Opium War (where at the request of Jardine Matheson Co., Britain invaded China in order to protect Jardine Matheson's right to sell opium there).
Kowloon was ceded in perpetuity in 1860, after the Second Opium War.
Only the New Territories were leased for 99 years at the 1898 Convention of Beijing. The New Territories is the largest part of Hong Kong, as far as land mass goes, but much less densely populated than Hong Kong or Kowloon.