Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: debuman on April 06, 2004, 10:16:11 AM
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I've only been here abouta month and I am puzzled about a couple of things. One - why does everybody gripe and complain so much about HOing? I'm sure that the real WWII pilots took shots whenever they could get them, including head-on shots. If you don't like the HO attack, grab the little stick betweeen your legs (no, the one you fly the palne with!:)) and get out of the way! IF you hang in there going HO with a guy, and get shot down, maybe you should ask yourself why you stayed there in the first place?
Second - why do people constantly rag on those who fly spits and LA7's as "dweebs"? During WWII, most pilots had no choice as to what aircraft to fly, and there were certainly a lot of Spitfires and LA7's used in combat. IS it because those planes are superior to the one your flying and shoot you down? If this is the case, nothing prevents you from flying the same plane! Either that, or perfect your flying techniques. Nobaody forces you to fight in a P-40, etc.
I've enjoyed the heck out of this game so far, but am turned off by the constant immature whining of those who take it upon themselves to try and belittle others who choose to fly different aircraft or don't use your "prefered" technique of air combat.
If you loose a contest with someone, die like a man, analyze what you could've done better, perhaps choose a different plane for your next trip, AND STOP ALL THE CRYBABY WHINING!
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Surprisingly, we've never heard this before.
Welcome to AH, the tards make it fun.
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You spoil your argument by crybaby whining.:D
Personally I willtake any HO I can get and fly whatever plane I please. Oh and don't forget to .squelch 1.
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Originally posted by debuman
If this is the case, nothing prevents you from flying the same plane! Either that, or perfect your flying techniques. Nobaody forces you to fight in a P-40, etc.
The point is that if all the aces flew La7s and Spit variants all the time-the N00bs would never get off the ground. :D :rofl
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I never complain about HO's on Ch1 - they are easy enough to avoid (every now and then 1 will still get you with a couple of pings) but...
flying around at full speed in an LA-7 taking HO pot-shots at everyone you can (jousting) is pretty much as close to the definition of a "skill-less dweeb" as you can get.
Once you have been around awhile you will find it's a lot more fun to learn some ACM .
If you go for the HO in a merge you are basically going to get beaten every time by anyone with a little ability.
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Dear Mr. Churchhill,
It has come to my attention that several of your RAF pilots are engaging in the practice of "head-on" shots during air to air combat over Europe. We wish to protest in the strongest terms this barbaric and cruel practice. As you know, asking our pilots to both fly the plane AND aim and shoot at the same time is beyond their capabilities. We would appreciate it if you would instruct your airmen to wait until our Luftwaffe pilots are behind them before beginning to maneuver.
In addition, I was recently informed by one of my squadron commanders that the RAF is flying Spitfires. SPITFIRES!!!! Mein gott in himmel!! What are you trying to do to us? Do you realize how wrong it is for you to put up an aircraft with a superior turning radius over our own cherished BF-109 and FW-190?! This practice must be terminated immediately! If not, we will consider asking our (for the moment) Russian friends if they will sell us some LA-7 fighters. How would you like that?
Respectfully yours,
Hermann Goering
Luftwaffe Commander
(Sounds a little silly when you think about it, doesn't it...)
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FOGOLD:
Thank you very much! I did the "squelch 1" thing today and it improved the AH flying experience a great deal. Like I said - I'm still new here but anxious to learn.
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While there are instances were a head on shot in unavoidable, it's sheer folly to use that as your main plan of attack. Only an idiot would engage in a tactic that has less than a 50-50 chance of being successful and even lower chances of coming out unscathed.
Learn some ACM and the game becomes far more enjoyable.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Redd
Once you have been around awhile you will find it's a lot more fun to learn some ACM .
This is the essence of it.
Granted, some people whine just for the whining of it. But many are trying to impress on the noobs that there are enjoyment to be found in this game other than strict real life tactics and always upping one of the "best" planes. If all the vets were to up lalas, spits and P51D's all the time the noobs would follow and we would have a pretty boring MA with little airplane variation.
I prefer to not up the abovementioned planes and try to succeed with planes that are regarded as less potent. This I do for my own pleasure, but at the same time I am contributing to make the MA more rich in various plane models. This is a good thing IMO. I've been over bases with only lalas and spits upped in defense, this bores me somewhat, whatever success I may have in the following fight... again this is only IMO. I want variation in the MA and will up planes that contribute to this (and whine to try and impress new players that there is MA life beyond the lala).
Same thing with the HO's. If the vets were to HO at every opportunity the noobs would do the same. Then we would have an arena with pretty boring fights. The whining about HO's tells noobs that they will never be held in high regard if they continue to HO. If you HO and win you often will receive a whine and a taunt, if you died in a fight but tried to employ good ACM you will often get a . Pavlov (and his dogs;) did some research and defined the mechanics in this method of teaching and learning.
So.... I think of the whining as not JUST a way of putting people down and venting frustration, I often see it as a way of shaping the MA culture. If we want an arena with good dogfights and interesting real-estate war, it is only we who can provide that.
I'm glad people whine...
(ofcourse... there is plenty of entertainment in saucy whines)
:-D
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Originally posted by debuman
FOGOLD:
Thank you very much! I did the "squelch 1" thing today and it improved the AH flying experience a great deal. Like I said - I'm still new here but anxious to learn.
ahh yes, listen to old Fogold's advice - squelch 1 and let them complain into the void of cyberspace.
Then at some point, you'll actually WANT to unsquelch 1, sit back and watch the whines roll up the text box. this is fun :D
The reason people don't like spits and lalas is because there are so many of them. If you are bothered with this, fly something different. else, fly what you want. It's your money.
Bozon
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Absolutely. Any noob will soon get bored of HO. I have had my share of HO kills though and like vulching regard it as fair in love and war. However, it really doesn't happen that often. Also (Bozon?) what is a HO anyway? It's not often you get a DIRECT head to head, but while outmanouvering an opponent you often find yourself Almost head to head and can take a shot.
As for too much of the same plane. I guess it's true. That is why the CT is great because you are limited to a certain set of planes which match historically. This is a lot more fun. Just a pity so few go to the CT.
Bottom line it's your money and you can do what the hell you like in the MA and to hell with everybody (Ecxept your teammates of course):aok
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Originally posted by FOGOLD
Bottom line it's your money and you can do what the hell you like in the MA and to hell with everybody (Ecxept your teammates of course):aok
to hell with them too!!
:D
and oh, just so i at least contribute something...
http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/170_1081335365_hordemonkeys.zip
this is how to fly an la7, sorta... it's actually more a lesson of SA, and it's eventual failure. :eek:
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I think you guys are confusing the head on shot with the head on ram. They are two different animals. The head on shot, pulled off correctly, is a thing of beauty. The head on collision however is a dweeby maneuver and desperate act to get a kill.
I think most of the whining done on channel 1 involves the cheap and desperate collision maneuver.
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It only takes a monkey to manuver for a HO every engagement, its the good pilots that use ACM or stick skills to get behind you. Thankfully, you know which is which even before the merge is complete.
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Originally posted by debuman
I've only been here abouta month and I am puzzled about a couple of things. One - why does everybody gripe and complain so much about HOing? I'm sure that the real WWII pilots took shots whenever they could get them, including head-on shots. If you don't like the HO attack, grab the little stick betweeen your legs (no, the one you fly the palne with!:)) and get out of the way! IF you hang in there going HO with a guy, and get shot down, maybe you should ask yourself why you stayed there in the first place?
Second - why do people constantly rag on those who fly spits and LA7's as "dweebs"? During WWII, most pilots had no choice as to what aircraft to fly, and there were certainly a lot of Spitfires and LA7's used in combat. IS it because those planes are superior to the one your flying and shoot you down? If this is the case, nothing prevents you from flying the same plane! Either that, or perfect your flying techniques. Nobaody forces you to fight in a P-40, etc.
I've enjoyed the heck out of this game so far, but am turned off by the constant immature whining of those who take it upon themselves to try and belittle others who choose to fly different aircraft or don't use your "prefered" technique of air combat.
If you loose a contest with someone, die like a man, analyze what you could've done better, perhaps choose a different plane for your next trip, AND STOP ALL THE CRYBABY WHINING!
Enjoy stage 1 (unconcious incompetence) while it lasts
http://www.trainer.org.uk/members/theory/process/stages_of_learning.htm
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1. Anyone who *****es an HO attempt was trying to do the same thing. You can't HO someone who isn't pointing their nose right at you. Because of the potential for lag I hose a little out of comfortable gun range then break - avoids the ram problem (most of the time).
2. When i want to intercept something quickly i up a LA7 - its fast and climbs like a monkey if you don't like my ride shoot me down. I'm happy to up another, brother :)
3. Whiners aren't happy no matter what you do. If you'd dropped on their 6 from an altitude advantage you'd be an alt-monkey. Or heaven forbid they never see you...then your using the stealth cheat (my personal favourite.)
4. Killem. Killem again. Then killem some more.
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some hurrican units used the head on attack with great success to break up the enemy bomber formations during the battle of bitain.but this tactic was mainly because they were not high enough to manouver and attack form a better angle.
nthing better then to break up a formaton then 12 huricans hiting you head on
the many still owe a lot to the few
and i am proud to be english
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i love this post,
yeah the hell with them
i love the spit
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There is a difference between a HO shot, (which can be like a snapshot with intelligent shooting and timely evasion) and a deliberate ram, which is pretty desperate. Also you wont get the kill. Also internet lag can make it tricky.
I still maintain if you can pull it off, best of luck to you;)
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headon great fun when
opponent die if you can
survive the whining
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Also (Bozon?) what is a HO anyway? It's not often you get a DIRECT head to head, but while outmanouvering an opponent you often find yourself Almost head to head and can take a shot.
The is no "almost" in an HO situation ... only in horseshoes and hand grenades ... :D
AN HO is ...
nose-to-nose .. guns-to-guns .. when both planes CAN shoot each other ... simple as that.
Anytime one plane can shoot another plane, without the other plane aquiring a guns solution, at the same time, is a deflection shot.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Anytime one plane can shoot another plane, without the other plane aquiring a guns solution, at the same time, is a deflection shot.
Unless one is directly behind the other, but otherwise that is a good point.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Also (Bozon?) what is a HO anyway? It's not often you get a DIRECT head to head, but while outmanouvering an opponent you often find yourself Almost head to head and can take a shot.
The is no "almost" in an HO situation ... only in horseshoes and hand grenades ... :D
AN HO is ...
nose-to-nose .. guns-to-guns .. when both planes CAN shoot each other ... simple as that.
Anytime one plane can shoot another plane, without the other plane aquiring a guns solution, at the same time, is a deflection shot.
Not sure I agree with that completely.
What about the classic FW/109 HO merge.
They come straight at you from a long way off for the HO merge/joust.
There's no way you want reciprocate the HO merge (a) it's dweeby and (b) they have bigger guns
You duck and weave at merge to try to avoid them (and their cannons) .
Every now and then they do manage to spray enough cannon on the merge to land a couple of pings before extending to the horizon line.
They fly away thinking - gee that was great deflection shooting.
I float to the ground thinking " nice HO FW dweeb" :)
It doesn't always take 2 to HO
Redd
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Head Ons are Head Ons, wether it is both firing or one firing, if you see a plane coming at you and you try to duck / roll/ turn away, it is a high deflection shot if he still hits you, he is going for the head on, but you turn and present him with a high chance at a deflection shot . It is hard for some to avoid HO's but others have better ease at it.
The biggest thing is the bogey that extends, reverses flys back at you starts shooting 1k out coming right for you nose to nose, then extends and trys it over and over, that dopey bogey has no knowledge of how to fly and takes the easy way out.
It would be nice to see HO's reduced chance of hitting, sort of like AW was, I feel this would be good for the guys to have to learn how to manuever and learn BFM/ACM to the point where they would have to gain angles to get a kill, not some luck chance of scoring a HO kill everytime.
Only with this will you see who is the better skilled pilot, and it would open the door for alot of the underknowledge pilots to learn how to use their planes to their advantages etc.....
I always had an opinion if you could have the chance of HO's turned off or reduced considerably you would see alot better dogfights, air to air combat, and with this actually strengthen the community rather than it be looked upon as another 1st person shoot and kill game.
add to that that probably most of the top 300 in the fighter pilot ranks would drop out of sight to nowhere with the exception of an elite few.
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besides that, if you think about it, most people that flew in WWII would never shoot Head On unless it was a last chance hope / effort, reason being they didn't want to be shot in the face also while going for a HO. It would be a lose/lose situation. The object has always been surprise, attack from the 3/9 line back. unless you was attacking a bomber, then yes bombers were attacked Head On, most times because certian bombers didn't have nose mounted guns.
The Head On delimma will always exist, it has ever since I been flying online sims, since 95. But, it is up to every one of us in game to discourage it and teach the new flocklings of the right way and the wrong way. So you could say all of us in the game flying are to blame for letting it get as far as it has.
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
add to that that probably most of the top 300 in the fighter pilot ranks would drop out of sight to nowhere with the exception of an elite few.
While rank does not necessarily equate to skill you can not actually be implying that the vast majority of the top 300 make their living off of HOs.
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Originally posted by HUN
While rank does not necessarily equate to skill you can not actually be implying that the vast majority of the top 300 make their living off of HOs.
:D I got a bite :D
nah, seriously, I exagerated a little extremely there. Is alot of it going on though, for simple reason they don't know any better way or they to dang lazy to take the time to learn their paticular planes abilities.
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Bah.
A pilot who commits to the HO sacrifces the possibility of using a lead turn, and puts himself at a disadvantage.
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Bah.
A pilot who commits to the HO increases the possibility of getting engine hits which will put himself at an advantage.
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Debuman is 100% correct. Everytime i HO someone they complain and whine like a little girl. It gets old, seriousy people. Get over it, you die you die, get back up and try again, kinda like riding a bike for the first time eh gents?. In World War II if you were in the air in a 109 and going against a Spitfire, would you get on his radio channel and yell out "Hey Kraut you HO'd me you cheater!" ? no i dont think so. Would you go against a 109 in a spitfire and yell to your enemy "Hey You P***Y!! Get out of high alttitude"! ? God the complaining gets annoying, deal with it, it's a war game, people use every chance they can to shoot you down so, do the same to them. Just think, the Ho can save you from getting killed. It can also help you when there's more then 1 on you. Jus think, if you dont kill them in any way possible, there just going to try and kill you.
Just My 2 cents.
~AcePappy~
Commanding STAFF
248 Squadron RAF
"Yorkshire Coast"
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I gotta agree. Although I don't go for the head on (low percentage chance of kill for a great chance of a bad position), I can't gripe about how another person flies if they shoot me down. I made the worst mistake - not them.
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When the horde piles into a nice little 1 on 1-2 dogfight you'd better believe I'm going to accept a HO shot if offered.
Guess I'm saying that if you have complete advantage and want to throw it away by giving me a guns solution stop crying and learn to vulch better.:p
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Originally posted by Darkish
When the horde piles into a nice little 1 on 1-2 dogfight you'd better believe I'm going to accept a HO shot if offered.
Guess I'm saying that if you have complete advantage and want to throw it away by giving me a guns solution stop crying and learn to vulch better.:p
I do think the same: the HO gives both parties more or less even chances of killing each other. THe only time it makes sense to accept it is when you are ata disadvantage: it may be the only shot you get or if you are outnumbered it might be worth it to kill one of the opposition quickly.
If you accept a HO from a position of advantage then you are asking for it and have no right to whine (though it sometime fun to hear).
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Originally posted by Redd
Not sure I agree with that completely.
What about the classic FW/109 HO merge.
They come straight at you from a long way off for the HO merge/joust.
There's no way you want reciprocate the HO merge (a) it's dweeby and (b) they have bigger guns
You duck and weave at merge to try to avoid them (and their cannons) .
Every now and then they do manage to spray enough cannon on the merge to land a couple of pings before extending to the horizon line.
They fly away thinking - gee that was great deflection shooting.
I float to the ground thinking " nice HO FW dweeb" :)
It doesn't always take 2 to HO
Redd
If you can't shoot them, at the same time, then it's not an HO.
It maybe as you say a "spray and pray" deflection shot, but it is definately not an HO.
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Originally posted by -MZ-
Unless one is directly behind the other, but otherwise that is a good point.
If an HO is a 0 degree deflection shot, then a shot at someone's 6 o'clock is a 180 degree deflection shot ... just as easy as a 0 degree shot, just less deadly for you ... :D
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"The biggest thing is the bogey that extends, reverses flys back at you starts shooting 1k out coming right for you nose to nose, then extends and trys it over and over, that dopey bogey has no knowledge of how to fly and takes the easy way out."
Anybody that start shooting at me from 1k out, for the most part, does not live to make another turn.
As soon as I see the lead fly from that far out, I immediately start a lead turn into the merge, while the are still concentrating on trying to land their desparate attempt at a kill. Once we merge, its a very short amount of time before I am on their 6 (with ease) and they die just as quickly.
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Is what some try to do Slapshot, assuming you have already gained seperation before intiating the lead turn. Which you would want to be out of plane with the opponent. If one was not out of plane and no seperation you would be turning right broad side of your opponent offering him a perfect deflection shot. The gain the seperation is what foils alot of peoples plan for lead turning/gaining angles, is like the old merge where you both fly at each other 1 vs 1, you dive slightly and maybe to one side, the opponent matches every move you make to always be heading right for you trying to stay in the same plane of flight. I usually try to avoid a HO and try to gain angles, but if I feel / think I don't have a good seperation distance, I 'll try to skid/slip by them. If I realize they are spraying then I will give em a burst back with prob a 7 out of 10 chance I killz em. Then I wil taunt them by saying see what a HO gets you, hehe.
granted it don't always work. And I end up on the losing end:lol
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
Is what some try to do Slapshot, assuming you have already gained seperation before intiating the lead turn. Which you would want to be out of plane with the opponent. If one was not out of plane and no seperation you would be turning right broad side of your opponent offering him a perfect deflection shot. The gain the seperation is what foils alot of peoples plan for lead turning/gaining angles, is like the old merge where you both fly at each other 1 vs 1, you dive slightly and maybe to one side, the opponent matches every move you make to always be heading right for you trying to stay in the same plane of flight. I usually try to avoid a HO and try to gain angles, but if I feel / think I don't have a good seperation distance, I 'll try to skid/slip by them. If I realize they are spraying then I will give em a burst back with prob a 7 out of 10 chance I killz em. Then I wil taunt them by saying see what a HO gets you, hehe.
granted it don't always work. And I end up on the losing end:lol
The original scenario (that you described - 1K sprayer), and what neither of us brought to light, was the fact that anybody who starts spraying at 1K out really has no clue as to ACM, so for the most part, if one does not get sucked into the HO, the clueless one loses.
The scenario descibed above, in almost all instances, would not take place with someone that starts spraying at 1k, but rather someone who does have a clue, cause they are trying to counter your lead turn. 1K sprayin' HO dweebs cannot/do not perform such counters. They usually put all their eggs in the HO basket and think little of the consequences if they miss the HO.
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Yes it is a fine line between the 2, the 1k sprayer ( I called him a dopey bogey with no knowledge of how to fly or takes the easy way out) and the HO'er that counters every change of direction you make while heading to the merge/lead turn.
Sorry I mixed em together without explaining the difference
I have seen many that approach the same, the only difference being the HO'er with knowledge has a lil better aim and is quicker on the reverse although you( the other guy) is even quicker for the fact you started gaining angles first opting not to go for the HO.
I have to admit I have gotten sucked into that HO to HO a bit, but I usually will not fire unless I see the other guy fire first, especially if he is countering every change of direction I make. most times on the first merge I'll ignore the HO, but if opportunity arises I'll usually take the high deflection ( top front canopy shot / below the nose my view)
on the second merge
I still have the opinion of incouraging the new guys to work on their SA/BFM/ACM and learn their planes abilities verses playing this as a game( war game) I thought this was a multiplayer WWII online flight simulation. Learning new things is what keeps it interesting!
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I guess we are both on the same page TC ... <
>
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There is no real reason to complain about it in my opinion.... If a HOer hits you, you didn't establish seperation and deserve what you get...
Of course I only count HOs as initial merge shots where it's quite obvious that the other pile-it is grasping for straws...
Two circle merges happen, in a turn fight, you meet nose to nose - my suggestion is shoot cause the other guy will be...
Most whines about HOs and Vulchs occur simply because of one person's view on how the game should be played isn't in line with their opponent's...
Personally, I don't normally HO, but if I have a decided advantage I might. I won't vulch unless we are going for a field capture... But that's just me. I don't expect anyone to use my same ethics.
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If those long range HOs are giving you trouble, I sugguest you look up the "energy egg" maneuver for your merge. I get a rediculous number of kills by going into a shallow dive about 2k out and timing my pull up so I'm at least slightly nose up when we pass. N00b dweebs will usually try to split-s so they can keep their skillless HO pass attemt going longer, and will be hard nose down when you pass. Just go into an immel and roll 180 degrees while vertical, pull your nose back down, and admire the view of their 6 as they run like hell. If they start turning you have a clear position advantage already, and if they extend you just gained a sizeable chunk of energy on them. Every time your opponent turns nose-down he is blowing energy fast.
-pellik
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Originally posted by pellik
If those long range HOs are giving you trouble, I sugguest you look up the "energy egg" maneuver for your merge. I get a rediculous number of kills by going into a shallow dive about 2k out and timing my pull up so I'm at least slightly nose up when we pass. N00b dweebs will usually try to split-s so they can keep their skillless HO pass attemt going longer, and will be hard nose down when you pass. Just go into an immel and roll 180 degrees while vertical, pull your nose back down, and admire the view of their 6 as they run like hell. If they start turning you have a clear position advantage already, and if they extend you just gained a sizeable chunk of energy on them. Every time your opponent turns nose-down he is blowing energy fast.
-pellik
Hmmm .. I do that alot ... didn't know they had an official name for it.
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I could be wrong but the 'energy egg' isn't really a maneuver. It just describes the energy state, gains and losses, in a loop. A plane doing a loop will look from the side to fly an egg shaped course. At the top, pointy end of egg, your slower, loosing speed and therefore your curve at the top is sharper. At the bottom, rounder part of the egg, you are speeding up and faster resulting in a larger arc for that part of that loop.
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You are not wrong fuzeman, for most loops ( the ones used in AH the most) the loop will or would look similar to an egg. Unless someone was using less elevator input performing a low G manuevering loop. Then this would look more like a rounded loop while retaining as much E as possible at the top of it. Hope I explained this clearly and described it correctly ????
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Originally posted by Blooz
Bah.
A pilot who commits to the HO increases the possibility of getting engine hits which will put himself at an advantage.
A pilot that commits to the HO will ensure that he will be ridiculed for the skilless dweeb that he is. And those that use the HO to try to gain any form of advantage will soon realize that it puts you at a disadvantage when you run up against someone that doesn't playthe HO game and out flies you like the silly HO dweeb you are.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by AcePappy
Debuman is 100% correct. Everytime i HO someone they complain and whine like a little girl. It gets old, seriousy people. Get over it, you die you die, get back up and try again, kinda like riding a bike for the first time eh gents?. In World War II if you were in the air in a 109 and going against a Spitfire, would you get on his radio channel and yell out "Hey Kraut you HO'd me you cheater!" ? no i dont think so. Would you go against a 109 in a spitfire and yell to your enemy "Hey You P***Y!! Get out of high alttitude"! ? God the complaining gets annoying, deal with it, it's a war game, people use every chance they can to shoot you down so, do the same to them. Just think, the Ho can save you from getting killed. It can also help you when there's more then 1 on you. Jus think, if you dont kill them in any way possible, there just going to try and kill you.
Just My 2 cents.
~AcePappy~
Commanding STAFF
248 Squadron RAF
"Yorkshire Coast"
And that is why HO dweebs like you are so easy to shoot down...
ack-ack
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ROFL Debuman! Great posts.
:D Second - why do people constantly rag on those who fly spits and LA7's as "dweebs"? During WWII, most pilots had no choice as to what aircraft to fly, and there were certainly a lot of Spitfires and LA7's used in combat. IS it because those planes are superior to the one your flying and shoot you down? If this is the case, nothing prevents you from flying the same plane! Either that, or perfect your flying techniques. Nobaody forces you to fight in a P-40, etc.
It's a great shame that we have 70 planes, but many people just fly the uber trio. P51/la7/spit ix. I would like to fly some earlier planes or midwar planes, but when you're up against P51 etc it's no contest. The consolation is that those planes are used by some people as a crutch to compensate for lack of skill, and therefore can be some of the easiest kills around.
jodgi! I'm ready for another arse-paddling in the DA :aok If all the vets were to up lalas, spits and P51D's all the time the noobs would follow and we would have a pretty boring MA with little airplane variation.
I think we already have that. Whenever I log on to AH, the first sound I hear, almost without exception, is the drone of a P51 engine. I prefer to not up the abovementioned planes and try to succeed with planes that are regarded as less potent. This I do for my own pleasure, but at the same time I am contributing to make the MA more rich in various plane models. This is a good thing IMO. I've been over bases with only lalas and spits upped in defense, this bores me somewhat, whatever success I may have in the following fight... again this is only IMO. I want variation in the MA and will up planes that contribute to this (and whine to try and impress new players that there is MA life beyond the lala).
Jodgi, I am on the same line of the same page as you. I never realised anyone felt exactly as I about this.
Some other good posts, but I don't have time to reply. Just on my way to a Conservative Club luncheon to plot the downfall of Tony Blair.
Hi Slapshot! ;)
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Originally posted by beet1e
Jodgi, I am on the same line of the same page as you. I never realised anyone felt exactly as I about this.
There are many that share our view.
But people seem springloaded to assume that we wish to control them. Many have suggested that HTC should in various ways force people to up "lesser" planes by game design and they object strongly to it (and rightly so).
"It's my money and I do what I want..." is a valid statement. People can cling to this or try to see what could improve the game for everyone, and in most cases also themselves.
Noone should be forced to do anything.
Many have expressed their discontentment with the game these days. We can change the MA culture, not HTC.
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Thinking about it, (more so after last night) I must say I WILL take the HO depending on what I'm flying against. La7s are far too well known (with good reason) for 'one pass, haul ass', if I don't get a hit on him he'll just rev 4-5k out and make another pass or attempt to cherry pick me later.
I can say that 95% of the time those La7s lose the joust.
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Funny, I hear the same thing until the MA fully downloads all the players to my computer :D
Originally posted by beet1e
Whenever I log on to AH, the first sound I hear, almost without exception, is the drone of a P51 engine.
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Originally posted by Delirium
Funny, I hear the same thing until the MA fully downloads all the players to my computer :D
I just logged in to repeat this test. I logged right out again when I saw pizza had been replaced by a small map. I sat in the tower and the first two planes I saw were enemy P51s. Oh it was fully downloaded all right, and those planes were really there.
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You don't get it Beet ... You have to be a Knight to understand.
When Knights first login, EVERY plane and EVERY GV is a Bish P-51 until we get a certain amount of updates from the server.
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The HO as some have stated is a legitmate tactic depending on how often and when it is used. No pilot out here even the good ones will allow you to setup a stern, abeam or sweep conversion. They have enough common sense to keep you in the forward quarter (FQ) and bring your aspect angle to nearly zero at the merge. At this point it's just a matter of who is gonna fire or who is gonna actually try to merge and defeat the other con with a counter at the merge.
I can see if there is alot of cons or atleast a few inbound that you take your chances during the merge to get off some shots and atleast disable the other pilot so as to increase your chances once the others come in. When doing it, it's definately not a good idea to be at a zero aspect angle. Off left or right and low or high would be preferrable. It's purely about having situational awareness and understanding that at times the FQ shot is a legit tactic and is a must with the situation presented to you. It'd be great if every fight was one on one but it very rarely happens. If it's one on one with no inbound cons to disrupt the fight then merge and use your ACM skills to fight the good fight. If at that time during the maneuvering a snap shot is presented to you then take it.
I had a great fight with aka the other night and no matter how much we both tried to get in each others rear hemisphere we were only presented with quick snap shots. Majority of those were in the FQ. Were they HO's in ones mind and not in another? Guess that just depends on who your flying against. Most consider the HO to be at a zero degreee aspect angle and at co-alt. If that is where your taking your HO everytime regardless of the situation and not making an attempt to maneuver to the rear hemisphere then yes it's dweebish as some would say. Learning how to do an HO or FQ attack is good to learn but don't use it as your primary tactic. Even if it seems everytime you try to merge someone fires at you just learn the jinks to avoid it and then turn around and kill them with ACM. Trust me the pilots who would rather merge and beat you with ACM will have more respect for you in the long run and your fights will be more enjoyable as time goes on.
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well Put Cobra, very well put..
-AcePappy-
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Thank you Cobra for a mature response. I am getting heartily nauseated by the superior and snobbish dweeb calling. Spit dweebs and HO dweebs and so on. A dweeb is a new or less skilled player, that's all. They're not some kind of lower life form and pay their money to play AH. The word dweeb should be banned by the moderater.;) The way people get so upset by HO shooters you would think they were getting shot down by them all the time. But that cant POSSIBLY be true:rolleyes:
Hell, I got involved in about 2 HO situations in as many months!
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HO is a ligit manover for the insane....if you dont want HO just turn,, or is the to difficult for anyone?...
this thread is competly pointless...
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Also very long:D
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IMO, when in the middle of a fight if you get that forward quarter or head on shot you go for it and its not to bad.
A head on to complain about is if a single bandit is 5k out and closing dead on with little maneuvering, goes straight to you and does a head on shot and continues on their merry way to do that to the next contact. Well maybe not complain but in that instance the HOer definately needs some learning. This learning would almost certainly increase their enjoyment of the game also because nothing... absolutely nothing beats a nice fight between two guys... er combatants :)
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Originally posted by FOGOLD
A dweeb is a new or less skilled player, that's all.
Wrong, a Dweeb is a form or lower life form. Always has been and always will be.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by FOGOLD
A dweeb is a new or less skilled player, that's all.
A dweeb is someone who uses dweebish tactics and/or flys dweebish planes.
-pellik
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Technically
A dweeb is anyone who fly's flight sims.
Yes we ALL are dweebs.
Now go find another word to label people with. I never really did like that one.
As to a true HO I've seldom had trouble ducking em.
But the guy who whines about HO's,
then it turns out he was in a 3 on 1 turn fight and the guy had a good forward quarter shot on him. Well he should be introduced to the woodshed out back.
True Ho's takes 2 to tango, good pilots do lead turns, barrel roll duck into an immelman, etc.
True Ho's are a craps shoot with loaded dice.
Smart pilots duck em & kill em from behind.
Nuff said eh?
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Couldn't have said it any better Ghosth ... :aok
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Basically said, people complain about HO-ing not because it's a viable option that people utilize but because it's usually the first boring, mundain and skilless tactic most dweebs like to use and occassionaly they'll pull off a lucky shot. And I'm pretty sure that in WWII, HO-ing was rarely used because unlike this game were you can just reup, a WWII pilot would not intentionaly place him self in a position that would place him at risk of getting shot down. I have resorted to HO-ing but only in circumstances were I'm fairly well out numbered and I need to dispatch as many planes as possible to even the playing field while the enemy is engaged in a tag team jousting match on me. Once I have even the odds I go back to ACM
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I agree there is a difference, lot's of good comments here. I do HO's if i have to, especially when i can not figure out how to beat the plane i am up against. I try to use whatever aspect of my plane that i think will kill the other guy. I do NOT ram a bomber to get the kill or intentionally ram another plane. If i do hit another plane when going HO i usually try to tune to him and say sorry, nice shot whatever. After 13 years in the Marine Corps the saying is just as true here as there "if your troops are *****ing they are happy, when they stop get worried".:aok
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Originally posted by Ghosth
Technically
A dweeb is anyone who fly's flight sims.
Nope...suggest you brush up on your flight sim lingo history or read NB's post.
ack-ack
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Naturally there is the wide spectum of different skills represented in the air. But if the better man starts mocking oponents who are less skilled or if he belives that he has the privellige to dictate how the less skilled oponent should fly - then he behaves like a manipulative controllfreak and a sadist. Why not set up the duells according to the gentlemens rules in the Duelling Arena. In MA you cant really expect anything but the laws of war. If youre so spoiled that you really expect to be able to dictate the oponents tactics in a war then you will lose. Why not go set up a ballet instead?
:cool:
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Originally posted by Cobra412 Learning how to do an HO or FQ attack is good to learn but don't use it as your primary tactic. Even if it seems everytime you try to merge someone fires at you just learn the jinks to avoid it and then turn around and kill them with ACM. Trust me the pilots who would rather merge and beat you with ACM will have more respect for you in the long run and your fights will be more enjoyable as time goes on.
Probably the best advice in this whole thread!
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AckAck your talking sematics here with the dweeb thing.
Anyway I take as my source Jedi's "Book of dweeb" was started LONG LONG ago in a galaxy far far away.
Granted there are levels of dweebdom.
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I spend alot of time getting on my opponent's 6. It takes talent, patience, and skill to get there, and it's always worth it when I "own" them. A HO is just a lame attempt at getting a kill. Working a con is too much work, so they go in guns blazing not caring if they live through it. Real pilots didn't get to re-up.
For that reason alone you cant compare the dweebish tactics of HOers in this game to the WWII pilots that took calculated risks with thier lives in head on passes.
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HO is ok tactic. If you die during the HO, just take a look to the mirror before you start whining.
I try to avoid HO's as a default. Sometimes I use it as a last ace.
IMHO RL HO is 50/50 change. In online game it is what-ever change because of lag. You never know.
Im in F4F vs A6M2. Would I try HO? H*ll yes!
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Originally posted by Fish323
I spend alot of time getting on my opponent's 6. It takes talent, patience, and skill to get there, and it's always worth it when I "own" them. A HO is just a lame attempt at getting a kill. Working a con is too much work, so they go in guns blazing not caring if they live through it. Real pilots didn't get to re-up.
For that reason alone you cant compare the dweebish tactics of HOers in this game to the WWII pilots that took calculated risks with thier lives in head on passes.
I find out this one prety interesting.
Fish323, what kind of plane you are normaly flying? What tactic your are use with your plane?
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LA7 pilot = DWEEB
Spit pilot = DWEEB
nuff said.
BTW this is FulzGold for those who may remember me.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by digaling
LA7 pilot = DWEEB
Spit pilot = DWEEB
nuff said.
BTW this is FulzGold for those who may remember me.:rolleyes:
WRONG !!!!
This about covers it !!!
A-20G Boston III pilot = DWEEB
A6M2 pilot = DWEEB
A6M5b pilot = DWEEB
Ar 234B pilot = DWEEB
B-17G pilot = DWEEB
B-26B pilot = DWEEB
B5N2 pilot = DWEEB
Bf 109E-4 pilot = DWEEB
Bf 109F-4 pilot = DWEEB
Bf 109G-10 pilot = DWEEB
Bf 109G-2 pilot = DWEEB
Bf 109G-6 pilot = DWEEB
Bf 110C-4b pilot = DWEEB
Bf 110G-2 pilot = DWEEB
C-47A pilot = DWEEB
C.202 pilot = DWEEB
C.205 pilot = DWEEB
D3A1 pilot = DWEEB
F4F-4 pilot = DWEEB
F4U-1 pilot = DWEEB
F4U-1C pilot = DWEEB
F4U-1D pilot = DWEEB
F4U-4 pilot = DWEEB
F6F-5 pilot = DWEEB
FM2 pilot = DWEEB
Fw 190A-5 pilot = DWEEB
Fw 190A-8 pilot = DWEEB
Fw 190D-9 pilot = DWEEB
Fw 190F-8 pilot = DWEEB
Hurricane Mk I pilot = DWEEB
Hurricane IIC pilot = DWEEB
Hurricane IID pilot = DWEEB
Il-2 Type 3 pilot = DWEEB
Ju 87D-3 pilot = DWEEB
Ju 88A-4 pilot = DWEEB
Ki-61-I-KAIc pilot = DWEEB
Ki-67 pilot = DWEEB
La-5FN pilot = DWEEB
La-7 pilot = DWEEB
Lancaster III pilot = DWEEB
Me 163 pilot = DWEEB
Me 262 pilot = DWEEB
Mosquito Mk VI pilot = DWEEB
N1K2-J pilot = DWEEB
P-38L pilot = DWEEB
P-40B pilot = DWEEB
P-40E pilot = DWEEB
P-47D-11 pilot = DWEEB
P-47D-25 pilot = DWEEB
P-47D-30 pilot = DWEEB
P-51B pilot = DWEEB
P-51D Mustang pilot = DWEEB
SBD-5 pilot = DWEEB
Seafire IIC pilot = DWEEB
Spitfire Mk IA pilot = DWEEB
Spitfire Mk IX pilot = DWEEB
Spitfire Mk XIV pilot = DWEEB
Spitfire V pilot = DWEEB
Ta 152H pilot = DWEEB
TBM-3 pilot = DWEEB
Tempest V pilot = DWEEB
Typhoon pilot = DWEEB
Yak-9T pilot = DWEEB
Yak-9U pilot = DWEEB
LVT(A)2 pilot = DWEEB
LVT(A)4 pilot = DWEEB
M-16 pilot = DWEEB
M-3 pilot = DWEEB
M-8 pilot = DWEEB
Ostwind pilot = DWEEB
Panzer IV Type H pilot = DWEEB
Tiger I pilot = DWEEB
Elco 80' PT Boat pilot = DWEEB
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I wouldn't mute channel 1 for anything. I laugh hysterically at the whining that goes on. It’s like listening to a SNL skit. No, I won't say anything in return to all the insults that might be aimed at me, but I'll keep my channel 1 open and have a wonderful laugh.
Ham On!
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Surely it is ridiculous. Poor bastards . But should one laugh if some people are not capable enough to take the fact that they didnt score it? Isnt it even too patetic sometimes when theese people start whining their complaints? Hopefully they will regain their mind and dignity later and keep it up:cool:
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Originally posted by SlapShot
WRONG !!!!
This about covers it !!!
bzzzzztttt...
planes aren't dweebs... pilots are.
:D
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I can't believe this! Last night I was reading "God is My Co-pilot" by Col. Robert Scott. (a p-40 dweeb if ever there was one!)
He was describing his first air-to-air fight with the Japanese when he engaged a two engine bomber, then realized that it had two Zero escorts. During the course of the battle - trying to get the bomber while avoiding being shot by the Zeros - he actually states that he took a HEAD ON snap shot at one of the Zeros! (Of course the Zero was later found crashed and burned...)
I have just lost all respect for the brave men of the AVG and the Flying Tigers!;)
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debuman, are you fishing? think you using the wrong bait :D
btw , who wouldn't use any thing they could in a 3 vs 1?
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:rofl
Me thinks somebody is trying his hand at trooling and has caught a mother lode of fish!
You guys should really really be more selective of your food!
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Originally posted by Shane
bzzzzztttt...
planes aren't dweebs... pilots are.
:D
bzzzzztttt...
Read it again ... Here is a short list ... :D
A-20G Boston III pilot = DWEEB
A6M2 pilot = DWEEB
A6M5b pilot = DWEEB
Ar 234B pilot = DWEEB
.
.
.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
bzzzzztttt...
Read it again ... Here is a short list ... :D
I plead pr0n deprivation!!!
:D
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Originally posted by Shane
I plead pr0n deprivation!!!
:D
:rofl
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
debuman, are you fishing? think you using the wrong bait :D
btw , who wouldn't use any thing they could in a 3 vs 1?
Fishing? No. I thought the smiley after the post was enough to indicate that the posting was "tounge in cheek", but I guess not.
I just posted it as a somewhat cynical proof that real life pilots could and did use the HO as a viable method of air combat.
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Originally posted by Shane
bzzzzztttt...
planes aren't dweebs... pilots are.
:D
OMG! I'm Hurricane Mk1 Dweep?!?!
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Sorry but simply put a dweeb is anyone who HOs, gets lucky enough, blindsides, cheats or otherwise manuvers into position and kills me. All others are just posers.
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After a thourough reserch I have found that a true dweeb status only can be achieved by performing the ancient "dxwebsetup.exe" ritual after installing AH.