Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Pei on April 07, 2004, 09:51:44 PM
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3609723.stm
Baby walkers outlawed in Canada
Baby walkers are designed for infants who can sit up, but not yet walk
Canada has become the first country in the world to ban the sale, advertising and import of baby walkers.
"Canadians must know about the dangers posed to infants through the use of baby walkers," said Health Minister Pierre Pettigrew.
A voluntary ban on the walkers - essentially baby chairs with wheels - has existed since 1989, but continuing injuries prompted the outright ban.
The most common accident occurs when babies fall down stairs.
They have also been reports of infants being able to reach dangerous objects that would otherwise have been out of reach, said the minister.
Distance and speed
Baby walkers are designed for infants who are able to sit up but not yet able to walk.
They allow them to propel themselves around using their legs.
But baby walkers also allow babies to travel distances and at speeds their parents may not be accustomed to.
Babies have been injured and killed falling down stairs, and even falling into swimming pools.
Between 1990 and 2002, the ministry said, there were 1,935 reports of infants being injured using the walkers.
The health ministry said it had determined that young children "do not have the necessary skills, reflexes or cognitive abilities to safely make use of these products".
Though many companies have adhered to a voluntary ban on walkers, said the ministry, it had become apparent that walkers were still being sold at garage sales, online and by street vendors.
Safety inspectors would work with first-time offenders found in possession of baby walkers to dispose of them, a ministry spokeswoman told BBC News Online.
Repeat offences could be punished with a fine or seizure of the walkers, the spokeswoman said.
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May be they should outlaw children as well? After all 100% of childhood accidents happen to kids.
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Why stop there?
Isn't sex, which leads to children, the ultimate culprit?
I say ban male/female attraction! Attack this problem at the source!
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Originally posted by GScholz
Ah, I had a fun childhood. We had dangerous toys back then. Bow and arrows, dartguns with hard plastic darts not the foam crap you get nowadays, swords you could poke your eye out with, and much more. How can evolution work if you don't let Darwin kill off the mortally stupid?
Darwinism is lost on us. Look how many people on this board have survived to breeding age--the majority of them having reached that age with BB guns and stamped steel Tonka Trucks in their arsenals.
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Ive always belived that kids should be allowed to fall over, get into fights and get dirty.
I will very soon find out if ill let it happen in real life when I become a parent in about 3 weeks.
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maybe we should just put our children in padded rooms... or a bubble maybe. hell we can live like the characters in final destination. babys in walkers falling down stairs (childgate maybe).... falling in swimming pools (duh, dont leave your children unattended). what is going on in this world? talking about speed these kids can travel in a walker??? all i can say is " take a deep breath...... let it out.......THINK." ha ha
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[I will very soon find out if ill let it happen in real life when I become a parent in about 3 weeks. [/B][/QUOTE]
congrats, being a parent is great... even in the rough times.
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Ahh... I see that we are now crossing lines that even the liberals find distasteful...
but why? don't you think your government knows what is best for you? Think of the lives it will save.. No? How bout the expense it will save every taxpayer who no longer has to pay for the thousands of babies that smack their little heads and are turned into turnips for the rest of their lives in some hospital ward?
Yet you think it is fine for the government to make us wear seatbelts and helmets and not smoke in a bar owned by a private citizen... you think the government has the right to keep you from owning and carrying a firearm even tho you have committed no crime with it?
lazs
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Are you guys suggesting that any and all products produced, even by the most unsavoury companies, should be freely bought and sold in the marketplace?
There has to be some sort of regulatory process to determine if something is dangerous...surely.
Let's assume a company made a product like Play Dough but if ingested it caused severe brain damage.
Hands off? Would it be a nanny law to make that product illegal?
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Originally posted by lazs2
Ahh... I see that we are now crossing lines that even the liberals find distasteful...
but why? don't you think your government knows what is best for you? Think of the lives it will save.. No? How bout the expense it will save every taxpayer who no longer has to pay for the thousands of babies that smack their little heads and are turned into turnips for the rest of their lives in some hospital ward?
Yet you think it is fine for the government to make us wear seatbelts and helmets and not smoke in a bar owned by a private citizen... you think the government has the right to keep you from owning and carrying a firearm even tho you have committed no crime with it?
lazs
children hurt themselves everyday. i honestly have never heard of a child having such a terrible wreck in a walker before. they have a very wide base and they cant tip them over, they cant achieve such speeds that they can kill themselves or even get hurt for that matter, unlike a car. if we were to ban items that can be considered dangerous, then there goes the coffee table, high beds, hard wood floors, concrete for sidewalks...ect. items are made with age requirements posted on them. if they dont have a warning and i feel that they are dangerous i dont buy them. its at the parents discression. as for a ban on smoking in a bar, that is just plan BS (i know that it is happening, its just BS)
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101ABN - It is stairs that are REALLY dangerous with respect to these walkers....and pools, but less so IMHO.
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Well.......'scuse me for stating the bloody obvious.......but if any parent is going to give their infant the ability to move around at a greatly increased speed, surely said parent is also going to have the wherewithal to restrict the places said infant can get to.
Apparently not. 1,935 Canadians between 1990 and 2002 didn't think to anyway. If baby walkers had been outlawed at the time these accidents would have only been postponed a few months until the kid could throw themselves down the stairs without being wheels assisted.
But then again, for a 12 year measurement the figure ain't that high.
Not that I'm not against baby walkers, the kid can damn well stand up and walk, lazy little git, I didn't have bloody wheels when I was a kid and I turned out all right.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-9/48257/20029211530-0-Swoop.gif)
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Probably a lot more Canadians are killed in car accidents. Should outlaw those too while they're at it, just too dangerous.
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There will allways be someone dumb enough to defend every single nanny law that comes down the pike..
I thank some of you for proving my point.
Swoop... yes.. I believe you have stated the obvious but reading the thread should prove to you that the obvious is often not so to the liberal.
It takes a government to raise a child.. parents are not smart enough or good enough... just ask hillary.
lazs
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Frankly I think they went about this all wrong. If it is stairs and pools that are the problem, THEY should have been banned. Why punish the kids and parents in single story homes without pools?
:rolleyes:
Pretty soon there wil be so many govt. regs like this in Canada that there wil have to be govt. paid nannies for parents to insure they are complying with all of them. :rolleyes:
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My God!
That's over 161 Canadians a year for 12 years! That only leaves about 14 total healthy live Canadians. Maybe we should put them on the endangered list!
OTOH.. Baby walkers are just tools for lazy parents.
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Anyone want to join me in starting a baby walker black market?
We all know if it gets banned it starts to be in damand!
God what a lame law, stupid parents will hurt their kids, even non stupid ones can have acidents. Blaming a kid taking a fall down stairs on the walker when the parent should have taken their head out of their ass, is just stupid.
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yea ill join the market with you.....WE'LL BE RICH......RICH........
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Originally posted by Pei
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3609723.stm
Canada has become the first country in the world to ban the sale, advertising and import of baby walkers.
"Canadians must know about the dangers posed to infants through the use of baby walkers," said Health Minister Pierre Pettigrew.
A voluntary ban on the walkers - essentially baby chairs with wheels - has existed since 1989, but continuing injuries prompted the outright ban.
The most common accident occurs when babies fall down stairs.
They have also been reports of infants being able to reach dangerous objects that would otherwise have been out of reach, said the minister.
Distance and speed
Baby walkers are designed for infants who are able to sit up but not yet able to walk.
They allow them to propel themselves around using their legs.
But baby walkers also allow babies to travel distances and at speeds their parents may not be accustomed to.
Babies have been injured and killed falling down stairs, and even falling into swimming pools.
Between 1990 and 2002, the ministry said, there were 1,935 reports of infants being injured using the walkers.
The health ministry said it had determined that young children "do not have the necessary skills, reflexes or cognitive abilities to safely make use of these products".
Though many companies have adhered to a voluntary ban on walkers, said the ministry, it had become apparent that walkers were still being sold at garage sales, online and by street vendors.
Safety inspectors would work with first-time offenders found in possession of baby walkers to dispose of them, a ministry spokeswoman told BBC News Online.
Repeat offences could be punished with a fine or seizure of the walkers, the spokeswoman said.
Lets just Ban the stupid parents who don't know that things with wheels and kids in them at the top of stairs are an accident waiting to happen. I guess I need to invent the bubble walker that allows children in them to bounce down hills and stairs.
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I had an accident in a baby walker when i was a baby. I was walking at a very early age, and used to go tearing around in the baby walker.
One day i hit the door mat and flew out the baby walker and into the glass window on the front door and cut my head open in 2 places.
Still have the scars and a line through my eyebrow from it.
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Apparently it's not just Canadians who feel this way, or just Canadian kids getting hurt...
The Dangers of Baby Walkers
The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) feels that walkers should be banned from the United States because:
baby walkers put children at risk for injury and
there are no clear benefits from using a baby walker.
From 1989 to 1993 there were 11 deaths involving a baby walker. Each year over 8000 children are treated in hospital emergency rooms for walker-related injuries. Many more children are injured and go to their physician's office. Walker injuries can be serious, such as skull fractures, head injuries causing bleeding inside the head, broken legs and arms, and burns.
http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/pa/pa_walkers_hhg.htm
(by the way..hit the 100 mark with this post)
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Wow, what a world its coming too
Well at least good ole shows like Road Runner and The 3 Stooges aren't considered too violent for kids.
Oh wait....:rolleyes:
...nyuck nyuck nyuck...
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Originally posted by Curval
Are you guys suggesting that any and all products produced, even by the most unsavoury companies, should be freely bought and sold in the marketplace?
There has to be some sort of regulatory process to determine if something is dangerous...surely.
Let's assume a company made a product like Play Dough but if ingested it caused severe brain damage.
Hands off? Would it be a nanny law to make that product illegal?
Yep, that'd be a nanny law.
The company that sells it may be negligent if they do not properly inform you of the risks, but the ultimate decision to use that product is mine, not the government's.
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thx 101ABN :)
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Originally posted by Tarmac
Yep, that'd be a nanny law.
The company that sells it may be negligent if they do not properly inform you of the risks, but the ultimate decision to use that product is mine, not the government's.
Okie dockey...dissolve the FDA as well then.
Then make all narcotics legal.
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Originally posted by Curval
Okie dockey...dissolve the FDA as well then.
Worse things have happened. Although we'd probably still want them (or a private sector equivalent) around as a research body to inform consumers of potential risks and benefits of drugs.
Then make all narcotics legal.
Fine by me.
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Yeah it does sounds a little absurd at first but then again if you had to start paying for 8000+ injuries a year out of your own pocket, the tune would change.
Stupid nanny healthcare sys.
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That some of us survived childhood is a miracle. One of my memories is of me and a buddy shooting steel tipped arrows straight up in the air as high as we could to see where around us it would land. Don't even remember having the sense to stand under something solid while waiting the arrows return to earth. :) It usally landed withing 40 ft or so.
Just one of many activities and adventures that make me shake my head and wonder how we survived childhood. I like to think my sons never did such wild stuff.
dago
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Lazs used to run with scissors when he was a kid.:rolleyes:
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When babywalkers are outlawed, only outlaws will have babywalkers.
dago
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Originally posted by Dago
When babywalkers are outlawed, only outlaws will have babywalkers.
dago
lol
I actually owned one right up until we moved into the new house. We got rid of it due to the stairs.
It's all fine and dandy saying accidents happen because of bad parenting, but frankly many children have been lost or maimed as a result of a momentary lapse or a "freak" occurance.
I chose not to take the risk. Accidents are by definition...accidents.
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In this case it would appear that the walkers are not badly designed or dangerous in themselves... it is the use they are put to. Perhaps stickers all over em that say "do not allow baby to use near top of stairs or near swimming pool unless attended by an adult" would suffice?
cripes.. expect to see "do not tuch glowing element" on all stovetops from now on..
torque... how bout you ban swimming and hiking and rock climbing so you don't have to pay? maybe bicycles and motorcycles and go carts and...
curval... I can think of no drug that is banned... only regulated... for me tho... let em have the drugs but gawd help em if they drive or cause problems on em.
lazs
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Heh. I'm all for dangerous stuff around kids, but walkers are just dumb to begin with. Why the hell do you want to put your kid into a contraption that prevents it from falling over when it goes too fast? The walker has no benefit to the kid, just disadvantages.
That's why you let the kids run free. They go too fast, they fall over. Don't put them in something that gives them more mobility than they're capable of taking physical responsibility for. That's for when they're older and they can choose that themselves. And a good head trauma at that age gives the kid a very high probability of developing schizophrenia as an adult.
I mean, yeah, I remember really dumb things, like going out to the playground and playing on these solid metal swings (something like cast iron in the shape of various animals) with two chains on them. We'd wind up on them, then hold on while they unwound and flung us rapidly along. If we were thrown off, we'd be thrown off headfirst into an area populated by other solid iron swing objects, and the metal frame of the swing is well. Great fun, but clearly designed by a malicious mind, and kids below puberty really don't need to be risking their lives to have fun.
Anyway, it's not like this is a ban on guns or something; this is completely useless and only a danger to kids. It might surprise you that in most countries, you can't sell rat poison under a label that says "Children's Multivitamins".
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Gee! I wonder how many people die in automobile accidents every year.
Maybe we should ban the automobile also.
And Television too! Heck...there's violence and Janet Jackson half nude on television!
What's this world coming too?
For shame for shame.
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Originally posted by Pei
Distance and speed
Baby walkers are designed for infants who are able to sit up but not yet able to walk.
They allow them to propel themselves around using their legs.
But baby walkers also allow babies to travel distances and at speeds their parents may not be accustomed to....
Next thing you know, they'll be racing them.
"Race fans! Hot Rodders! Let's go RACING!Racing!racing! This Sunday, at the Grapevine International Speedway! See Junior Jones and Tommy Lee in the Graeco Dash for Cash! Gates open 6:30! Be there!"
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We already have laws against slapping babies behind the wheels of automobiles. They suck at driving too.
When I get behind the wheel of my 3-speed, 4-banger olds cutlass ciera and drive 90 miles an hour on 2-lane country highways, I do so fully confident that if I screw up and die, it's my own damn fault. I also don't take such risks without at least a trivial benefit for myself -- for example, I'm driving somewhere to get laid.
When you slap a baby in a walker, you're removing its primary safety mechanism: namely falling flat on its face and screaming in pain, and you're doing so for absolutely no benefit. Babys are supposed to fall over and smack themselves. They're built for that. It's not an issue of supervision either. In these things, they can get into trouble faster than you can stop them. I mean, they're moving faster than an 2-year-old, and with even less ability to discriminate between danger and safety. And yeah, in those things they can knock down safety gates. So give me one good reason why you want to keep them in those things? (err.. diaper flow issues don't count)
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what does benifiet have to do with it? maybe the baby enjoys it... maybe the parent does. What is the benifiet (other than exercise) to learning to ride a trike or a pedal car or a bicycle for that matter?
lazs
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im sure that a walker can knock down a child gate if the gate was placed on the wrong side of a door jam. but for the top of stairs, i would let my daughter cruise in her walker in the upstairs hallway. walkers are designed to help the child learn to walk. now i understand that it does take away the natural primary safety mechanism (putting hands up to break fall). but its an it for that case. by that i mean that the walker builds up the legs, teaches them ballance, and to just plain walk. if the child has a good sense of ballance, falls are not common. walker or not, my 3yr old still crashes into everything. ha ha
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lol, im glad my inbound daughter won't be very mobile for a while.... i now have a mental image of a kid falling down the stairs :eek:
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GO AWAY GS !!! :D