Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GtoRA2 on April 08, 2004, 10:36:33 PM
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The Bush admin had started to try and fill the draft boards. Just do a search for "draft coming back"
You will see alot of site some total crap, but one thing seems to be common, they are filling the draft boards and getting the system ready.
Is this Democrat plot to weaken Bush?
I do not think so actauly.
Now you guys know I am not a lefty.
I am going to post a link to Salon.com though, (second artical I ever read there) cause it seemed well written and somewhat balanced.
link to Salons artical. (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/11/03/draft/index_np.html)
If this is true, from what I read 18 to 26 year olds would be draftable.
Many of the loopholds are gone, if you are in coledge, you get to finish the semestor. A colodge senior? You get to finish the year. Nation gaurd units are getting called up so no safety their.
In a way I think thats good, why should rich boys get off cause momy and dady can pay for school, and poor kids get to die and fight? (scared yet froggie?)
Would the Army want the draft? I would think not the conscript army sucks and they would have to dumb it down some.
I also think this would tear the country apart. It would be a bad thing since the war in Iraq is no WW2 or Even Korea.
The jist of the articals is Bush will have to do this to maintain troop levels and morale in the troops if re-elistments and recruitment starts to drop off.
This scares me, and I hope Bush does not do it. It would do much more harm then good. I would rather see us leave Iraq, before the job is done then cause the kind of damage this would cause in our country.
What do you guys think? Please try and keep is civil, I know that tough for some of you rabid bush haters, but you wont make you points if you only spew the same tired BS.
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If the draft is brought back I dont think I'd be too happy about it... I think it would be a definate wrong move.
Not because I wouldnt want to go - I was discharged from the Marine Corps due to 'semi-permenant' injury and hell, I volunteered for that - but rather because I think that if the draft is necessary, the war isnt.
:(
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Saur,
Well I am old and fat so, they wouldnt take me if I wanted to go.
well old being thirty. MrLars alluded that they may take up to 40 plus year olds for hard to fill jobs but I never saw him post a link and I found nothing about that anywhere.
Still I agree, this war is not worth what the draft would do to the country, left right politics are bad now, I can not imagine how bad they would get...
Still, we won't know tell Bush is in the white house for another 4 years, but even if it is Kerry, and he decided to stay in Iraq, this may be needed.
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Interesting timeline. I can see it being enacted - if necessary - near the end of a second Bush term. I dont think Kerry would dare to even think about it during a first term - political suicide.
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Good point, I had not thought about that, about Kerry.
Your right about Bush though, though I could see it earlier, what does he have to lose if he wins.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Your right about Bush though, though I could see it earlier, what does he have to lose if he wins.
Nothing, thats kind of why I read the article a little more seriously than I would normally.
If there is any President who has the history of making a quick decision... and acting on it in the interests of the country as a whole... its Bush. I can see him as the President that would do it.
Much like you, I support most of the things he does, and as of right now, he has my vote in November - but this (if done) I would be firmly against.
Be interesting to see what the rest of the lads have to say.
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The draft is always an option but I don't think it would be implemented unless the survival of the United States was at stake.... and if that were the case, there would be lines at the enlistment offices anyway.
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"This scares me"
Not me. I'm too old to be a front line troop (was Navy anyways and they retired or scrapped everything I worked on back when I was in; tube radios, mechanical teletypes, etc...) and my sons are too young.
"What do you guys think?"
I'll feed and shelter anyone who needs it as they travel off to thier vacation in Canada.
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Originally posted by NUKE
and if that were the case, there would be lines at the enlistment offices anyway.
Why do you think that? Given the nature of todays society I cant see many people signing up at all.
The deeds and conviction of the 'Greatest Generation' were admirable, but then TV showed up...
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Why do you think that? Given the nature of todays society I cant see many people signing up at all.
The deeds and conviction of the 'Greatest Generation' were admirable, but then TV showed up...
if the survival of the United States were at stake, I believe there would be lines at the enlistment offices.
You think the citizens would roll over if our survival was at stake? I don't.
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No problem with me, I signed up voluntarily. Leave for basic June 22.
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It Doesnt scare me.
And I'm Prime Grade A according to the Above guidelines...
I'm 23, I'm done with college, and i'm in generally good health.
From what I've read, The average age of the American Enlisted Man Killed In Action in Vietnam was 22. The Officer, 28.
Making the Total Average out of every KIA: 23
I'm not saying I'm gung ho for going to war, and i'm not to thrilled with the handling of the war in Iraq. But if this were to heat up beyond where a draft were to take place, I would go.
But I'd go Navy (if I could) and I would probably end up making it my career.
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This Is gonna make a few of you mad but here goes.
I think It should be mandatory to serve your country for 2years after high school.
You wanna enjoy all the freedoms brought to you by the blood of our fathers and grand fathers in ww1 and ww2 and korea and viet nam?
Well you aint too good to earn your keep.
God Bless all the young men and women who VOLUNTEERD to serve and who at this very moment are fighting and dying :mad:
I did my time 1976-80 and If they would have my middle aged arse I would go again.
There Is no greater love a man can give than to fight and maybe die for his country.
Every single one of them over there right now are HERO'S.
But I don't think the draft will be brought back.
So we are all safe to sit on our collective butts and second quess people much smarter than us on how or why the war should be fought.
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Originally posted by AdmRose
No problem with me, I signed up voluntarily. Leave for basic June 22.
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Originally posted by Nefarious
It Doesnt scare me.
And I'm Prime Grade A according to the Above guidelines...
I'm 23, I'm done with college, and i'm in generally good health.
From what I've read, The average age of the American Enlisted Man Killed In Action in Vietnam was 22. The Officer, 28.
Making the Total Average out of every KIA: 23
I'm not saying I'm gung ho for going to war, and i'm not to thrilled with the handling of the war in Iraq. But if this were to heat up beyond where a draft were to take place, I would go.
But I'd go Navy (if I could) and I would probably end up making it my career.
You would be smart to pusue OCS and be an officer with you education .
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The moden army is not draft soldier friendly from what I understand about how it works... So I dont think its a good idea.
But I would not oppose it and if I got drafted I'd go...
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I've been hearing those rumors about the draft for the past year from friends in the Army.
If it were to happen, I'd put money down it won't be because of Iraq/Afghanistan. Think about what the "War on Terror"ism really encompasses.
-SW
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Originally posted by bullett308
I think It should be mandatory to serve your country for 2years after high school.
I used to think so too - probably for the same reasons as you, but after giving more thought to those in the service - who volunteered - and dont want to be there, I wouldnt want to trust my life to a ****bird.
Mandatory military service allows for a potentially larger, but ultimately less effective force, IMO. I'd rather have 10 good Marines than 30 substandard Army pukes. ;)
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
I used to think so too - probably for the same reasons as you, but after giving more thought to those in the service - who volunteered - and dont want to be there, I wouldnt want to trust my life to a ****bird.
Mandatory military service allows for a potentially larger, but ultimately less effective force, IMO. I'd rather have 10 good Marines than 30 substandard Army pukes. ;)
Well no offense to my bros In the 11B infantry.
But numbers is what they want and need .
Anyone can be trained.
And as far as the fellas that are in now and dont want to be there ?
Welll why did they join?
Gentlemen Its all about paying your dues.
Men beofre us have done it and we aint no better that they were.
This country we are so lucky to live in came at a price.
A price paid In blood by men and women of our armed forces.
Kinda nice to have some one else pay your way.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
...but rather because I think that if the draft is necessary, the war isnt.
:(
Exactly. If the war is worth fighting, you'll have enough volunteers.
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Originally posted by Tarmac
Exactly. If the war is worth fighting, you'll have enough volunteers.
LOL and If given a choice there would not be enough men to fight a war.
WOW we just found a way for world peace.
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Originally posted by bullett308
LOL and If given a choice there would not be enough men to fight a war.
WOW we just found a way for world peace.
See my previous post. If there aren't enough men to willingly fight a war, then maybe it isn't worth fighting.
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Originally posted by Tarmac
See my previous post. If there aren't enough men to willingly fight a war, then maybe it isn't worth fighting.
Yes to wich I say there Is NO WAR worth fighting when you really think about it.
WAR=the force of a countrys will apon another country.
Kinda dumb dont ya think?
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Perhaps a draft would be necessary but I believe it would lower the quality of our service personel. The last thing I would want is someone who wasn't there because he wanted to be there. I served in the Navy and not during any hot wars. Even then if a guy didn't fit in we would pressure our division chief to get the guy out of our division, either send him to the deckapes or better, kick him off of the boat completely.
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Originally posted by bullett308
Yes to wich I say there Is NO WAR worth fighting when you really think about it.
I disagree. I think WWII was worth fighting, as was the American Revolution. The American Civil war... I won't get into that. :)
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Originally posted by storch
Perhaps a draft would be necessary but I believe it would lower the quality of our service personel. The last thing I would want is someone who wasn't there because he wanted to be there. I served in the Navy and not during any hot wars. Even then if a guy didn't fit in we would pressure our division chief to get the guy out of our division, either send him to the deckapes or better, kick him off of the boat completely.
Trust me when someone Is shooting at your arse you dont wanna be there either.
Weather you inlisted or was drafted.
God how I wish there was no need for wars.
It Is such a stupid waste of humans talents and It Is always the young who pay the price.
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and my sons are too young.
depends on how long it takes us to get out of this mess, doesn't it?
IMO, if they can draft young men, pull them from their familys, carreers, and friends, then they should be drafting companies too.
let the military contractors (from the ceo to the lowest paid man) be conscripted into manditory service at E-1 pay.
I bet if haliburton, and other contractors where 'drafted' to provide their services without proffit, we'd find ourselves finished up over there much sooner than anybody is now predicting.
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If the draft was implemented, what roles would the drafties be assigned? I mean I'm real good with computers, and technology of sorts. Something that did interest me would be flying the drones, or is that only reserved for officers?
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Originally posted by BlckMgk
If the draft was implemented, what roles would the drafties be assigned? I mean I'm real good with computers, and technology of sorts. Something that did interest me would be flying the drones, or is that only reserved for officers?
You would be tested and put where you would do the most good LOL.
Sounds silly but uts true.
They could really caare less what you might want.
You might show an aptituide for working the big gun on an abrams ya never know.
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Well as far as the Air Force goes the draft is highly unlikely beings the fact they are trying to down size us already by 16,000 troops.
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Originally posted by Cobra412
Well as far as the Air Force goes the draft is highly unlikely beings the fact they are trying to down size us already by 16,000 troops.
Well If they did need the draft It would be for boots in the sand not fighter jocks and there supports crews.
Just a guess.
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when I said this scares me, I meant cause it is bad for the country, if I get the call, I will go and do my best. Running to canada is for cowards. I could never look myself in the mirror again.
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off to bed sorry guys
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Bullett possibly but the fact we are already undermanned and over worked speaks a different story. Many "fighter jocks and support crews" are spending alot of time over in the middle east. We have been for many years now. I have yet to hear of a 12 month tour by anyone but 6 month tours are very common. Just depends on the unit and their capabilities.
There aren't that many aircraft that have the same capabilities. The F-117 is a perfect example. There isn't many of them and there job during war time is essential to the overall mission. The same goes for U-2's, F-15 Es and A-10s. Refueling aircraft and cargo support is also needed. Unless they plan on using civilian airliners for war time again they would also be over worked.
In the past 2 years I've seen my wife for a total of maybe a year and 3 months of that. And that doesn't include training deployments and schools that we've gone to. It also doesn't include the fact that for a majority of the time we did have in the same state together we worked completely different shifts. We mainly saw each other on the weekends and that was it. And to add to all that the only reason we were lucky enough to have those 15 months together is because I'm no longer in an active fighter squadron which means I will only deploy or fill a slot in the event a major war kicks off. If I were in an active squadron then that time could be cut in half again.
Qualification training is another big thing that goes into it. Not saying the training for the other services is less than ours but you just can't send some new troop out there to work an advanced fighter aircraft and expect to be up to standards for war time. For them to be up to par they need alot of experience in systems and their quirks. You don't have alot of time to get a bird off the ground when your quick turning them for combat. If it's broke it has to get fixed now and get fixed right the first time. To get that they need time and lots of experience to be good at what they do. We are seeing more and more new Airmen coming in these days and very few experienced operators staying in. It's a very bad combination and more often than not we have to throw them to the wolves and force very accelerated training requirements. Maybe half of those folks subjected to that kind of enviroment will be able to grasp it but the other half will be in complete disarray.
One other thing in regards to the whole training issue. Not all Airmen come in and plan on staying for extended periods of time. The average airmen in my career field sign up for 4 years. Between basic training and there specialty courses they will spend up to 8 months depending on there shred out before they even see a real fighter squadron. With the current rumours they planned on getting rid of our shred outs and combining three different courses into one. Each one of those specialty courses run approximately 3 to 3 and a half months a piece for class instruction. So basic math shows that with having 3 seperate specialty areas, plus 3 months of electronic principals and 6 weeks of basic training these folks wouldn't see a squadron for well over a year of their initial enlistment.
Even then if their training is cut down to adjust for the very long courses your now placing an even less trained person on the line to keep these planes flying. And with the time it already takes to train people on just one course from the time they leave basic to the time they get fully trained would be almost around 2 years or more. They would have to also complete all of their Career Development Courses which is the equivelant of atleast two full years of college on the outside (each CDC set taking approximately 3 months to complete; sets include basic fundementals and electronic principals and then systems training). By the time they complete all of that and get some experience in the mean time it's time for them to leave. They may or may not reenlist so you have the 50/50 chance that the last four years spent trying to get these Airmen up to par may be wasted because they aren't staying in.
Basically what I'm getting at is the draft for career fields such as mine aren't the way to go at all and my career field is just one of many that have these same things to deal with. We stilled need more manning but doing a draft to fill that gap would be a total nightmare and a waste of time and money.
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Oh Dude dont get me wrong .
I am not trying to deminish The very hard and technical work that must be done to keep all those birds in the air.
And It Is sad that so many moms and dads are away from there families for long periods of time.
there sacrifice do not go un noticed by this old grunt
My point was that it is the Marine and the
infantry soldier that is getting killed at a alarming rate now.
And sooner or later they must be replaced to keep troop strenght up.
I am sure there are hazards to the flights crews on carriers very dangerouse work.
And for the land based flight crews as well .
But It Is the boots In the sand getting shot at.
My respect and prayers go out to you all.
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Very true and I do believe without a doubt they need replacements. But as any man or woman in our armed services will say they'd much rather have experience and someone who wants to be there next to them than some person that got snatched out of a pot. When they are out there fighting to survive they can't be bothered with worrying if the draftee next to them is really gonna be there when they need eachother.
It was rather amazing to see after 9/11 how many men and women wanted to come in to help and protect their fellow countrymen. This was from all walks of life and all age groups. Retired military personell in there 60's + wanted to come back in and that shows loyalty to their country. I highly doubt that the draft will ever be needed again. Though now we really need replacements for our men and women in the middle east a draft would be a disaster. Much of the concern is more on the lines of putting fresh troops in a hostile enviroment that though they say is under control but that a mass troop movement at the current time could disrupt the current operations to a certain extent. They are all trained to jump right in and do their jobs but there is a good and bad time to do such a massive movement. During the calm would have been the best time to have replaced personell but again I'm not the one making the calls and its way above my pay grade to even judge their decisions.
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This might be a bit off the norm for the "Draft" issue, but here goes (Patches dons his fire retardant suit and straps on his Kevlar
helmet and body armor, digs a very deep fighting hole complete with grenade sump and firing steps).
Life in a free nation is not free; the freedom has been purchased by the blood, limbs, mental anguish and lives of forefathers be they volunteers, or draftees, housewives, sisters, or brothers and fathers; all went into harm's way in some form or another and all served the greater good of the Nation while in the service of the Nation.
I wonder how many free nations have won their freedom strictly from the efforts of volunteers...that is to say, of course, that no one, or volunteer, entered into the service of the Nation by any means other than individualistic altruism toward that specific Nation.
The following is United States of America Specific:
I am not only in favor of a "Draft" for military purposes, I am in favor of expanding the "Draft" to include folks who are not physically elligible to be "Drafted" for Military Service.
I am in favor of "Drafting" folks for National Compulsory Service for a period of service of not less than four years duration and ages ranging from 16 years of age upwards.
National Compulsory Service can, in my opinion, be defined as a program that allows folks who are inelligible for military service for various physical, mental, or educational limitations, an opportunity to serve their Nation in an alternative capacity...along the lines of President Roosevelt's Civilian Conservation Corps of the Depression Era...but allows for physically, mentally, and educationally elligible individuals to be taken into the military service as the needs of the Nation dictate.
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Originally posted by Patches
This might be a bit off the norm for the "Draft" issue, but here goes (Patches dons his fire retardant suit and straps on his Kevlar
helmet and body armor, digs a very deep fighting hole complete with grenade sump and firing steps).
Life in a free nation is not free; the freedom has been purchased by the blood, limbs, mental anguish and lives of forefathers be they volunteers, or draftees, housewives, sisters, or brothers and fathers; all went into harm's way in some form or another and all served the greater good of the Nation while in the service of the Nation.
I wonder how many free nations have won their freedom strictly from the efforts of volunteers...that is to say, of course, that no one, or volunteer, entered into the service of the Nation by any means other than individualistic altruism toward that specific Nation.
The following is United States of America Specific:
I am not only in favor of a "Draft" for military purposes, I am in favor of expanding the "Draft" to include folks who are not physically elligible to be "Drafted" for Military Service.
I am in favor of "Drafting" folks for National Compulsory Service for a period of service of not less than four years duration and ages ranging from 16 years of age upwards.
National Compulsory Service can, in my opinion, be defined as a program that allows folks who are inelligible for military service for various physical, mental, or educational limitations, an opportunity to serve their Nation in an alternative capacity...along the lines of President Roosevelt's Civilian Conservation Corps of the Depression Era...but allows for physically, mentally, and educationally elligible individuals to be taken into the military service as the needs of the Nation dictate.
In total agreement see my above post.
very good point about CCC.
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Don't really know where to start here. At my work I have seen 3 kids volunteer for Army service. Another has been trying HARD to get into the Air Force. If this is reflective of kids thier age (19 - 25) or just a high percentage of enlistment I do not know. I think that kids understand, for the most part, what they are getting into. If not they should do more research before throwing up their right hand and taking the oath.
Me? I have 10 1/2 years service as of right now. 3 years and 3 months sea duty. Volunteered twice for active recall since 9/11. I am willing to do whatever my country needs me to do. I am still waiting for my orders for recall, I'd love nothing more than to go active.
BTW, I have had a number of my unit members recalled to active service. 2 of them have since come home and committed suicide. Why? Not because of their service but because of a lack of family support before and after they left. One of them was my best friend. He and I had been friends since day one in the reserves. I never even knew he had come back from active duty. They found him hanging from a tree out in the woods. I never even got to say goodbye.
ET3 Michael Brantner, where ever you are. I hope you have finally found peace.
SK2 SKW
Supply Dept. Head
CDS-6 Det "E"
NMCRC Houston, Tx.
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they have enough button pushers/spotters
all they need are more cruise missiles/laser guided munitions
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More cruise missles and smart bombs? button pushers eagler? It takes time, training, dedication and preparation to keep those systems operable.
The services, even the infantry has become highly specialized and it takes at least year of training to get anyone up to be competent.
I voluntarily enlisted April 29, 1975 hoping to make it to the last curtain in Viet-Nam all the dang schooling kept me outta the fleet until September 23, 1976 the first day I stepped aboard USS Bigelow (DD 942) to work on the phone systems ( Interior Communications) and the Gyro mainly.
I can't even begin to imagine the level of training that would currently be required.
In the fleet damage control is a big issue and from the captain down to the cooks and support perssonel every one needs to able to perform a varied types underway repairs. Plugging holes to stop flooding, putting out fires, splicing damaged power/comm lines, first aid and unexploded ord. disposal. the list is extensive.
When I served this was taken seriously by most crew members. When we were underway we would spend the majority of the in transit time at general quarters manning our battle stations.
I would not have wanted to be aboard the USS Cole when those muslims exploded themselves along side her. The possibilty of serving next to an unmotivated conscript that probably didn't take their training seriously and was smoking dope 1/2 time is frightening. That is what happens lots of times with conscripts.
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Nuke is right. Unless the Taliban and the entire arab League of Nations invades the US, no one is going to enact the draft.
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Originally posted by storch
More cruise missles and smart bombs? button pushers eagler? It takes time, training, dedication and preparation to keep those systems operable.
and they are already in place
more remote warfare and less hand to hand, the days of trench fighting is over - how about jets a2a like ww2 planes.. don't think so
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"But I'd go Navy (if I could) "
Good choice. (honestly).
An added bonus for that choice is there's no serious threat to the USN these days. Unless the British or French decide they don't like us - in a hostile kind of way.
I've recommended to my in-laws (and my brother himself) that thier kids choose the USN on thier selective service sign ups. Or the Air Force but I think you get a more rounded experience in the navy.
And with the current Middle East situation I suggested they avoid the Army and Marines unless they actually WANT to go to Iraq (for in all likely hood where they'll end up) where they will simply be targets and endure a high risk of dying - and for what?.
"Unless the Taliban and the entire arab League of Nations invades the US, no one is going to enact the draft."
Wishful thinking? (ie: that the draft won't come unless that invaded). N Korea didn't invade the US and neither did N Veitnam btu we had the draft. Now the US government is doing things that cause it to be in dire need of augmenting the Army and Marines. So while I'm not 100% sure the draft is coming, it would not surprise me in the least if does, and soon.
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No. Anyone who even utters the word "Draft" would be instantly killed.
Not necessarily Politically killed either...
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Originally posted by bullett308
Well no offense to my bros In the 11B infantry.
But numbers is what they want and need .
Anyone can be trained.
And as far as the fellas that are in now and dont want to be there ?
Welll why did they join?
The Marine/Army comment was more of an inter-service jab. But once you get to boot it'll take you all of about a week to understand exactly what I mean - regardless of branch.
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If the draft was implemented, what roles would the drafties be assigned? I mean I'm real good with computers, and technology of sorts. Something that did interest me would be flying the drones, or is that only reserved for officers?
LOL BlckMgk, how good are you at field stripping an M-16? :) Your desires and qualifications go out the window if there is a pressing need for trigger pullers or potato peelers.
I somewhat (in a knee jerk manner) would support a draft just because so many people in the middle and certainly upper classes concentrate on taking as much as they can of what America has to offer, with no though of giving anything serious back in return. It would also make war a bit more personal and a bit less of an abstraction than it seems to be today.
If not mandatory military service, then a mixture of military and community service options. Perhaps reform the tax laws to cut down on loopholes etc. but give a significant lifetime tax break for those who actually made the extra effort to contribute to society beyond the minumum requirements. Just my not well thought out and likely full of holes opinion.
Charon
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actually, they should just make a law where those who are honorably discharged have their own tax number. (aka in your W-4 now you put 0 for no dependents, etc etc.. add a new number there for honorably discharged.. you get the idea). Those with that number dont get charged any taxes at all and get a full refund every year.
and those who dont serve or are dishonorable discharged dont get any tax return at all. oh, and raise their taxes.
a nice, capitalist solution ;)
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Well, this might stir up a few negative responses, but I'll say it anyway. Every single American male who filled out that little selectice service card they got for turning 18 has volunteered to serve in the military. They have all signed their name saying that they enjoy the American way of life, and are willing to come to the defense of it if the country needs them. Sadly, it seems most people pencil-whipped the form because it was mandatory. The option was there, upon reaching adulthood, to leave this country if you were unwilling to defend it. If there is a draft and they call on you, it's because you volunteered. Personally, I don't understand why they don't make females fill out a selective service card too. They get the same quality of life here, and they are plenty capable of defending it.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
The Marine/Army comment was more of an inter-service jab. But once you get to boot it'll take you all of about a week to understand exactly what I mean - regardless of branch.
Chit 2 minutes after i stepped off the bus at reception station it was big eyes and brown shorts for me.
I mean to tell ya I just thought I was C ock of the walk till that drill sgt put his smoket bear hat brim into my forhead and gave me that go to hell stare.
Yup at that moment I learned all about humility.
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" Every single American male who filled out that little selectice service card they got for turning 18 has volunteered ..."
Bullcrap and more bullcrap.
They filled out that card they are required to by Federal law. There is nothing voluntary about it in the least.
Being a citizen of this country does not require one to toss thier brain out the window and become a goose stepping lemming following questionble "order to arms" because people like Bush and you think they should.
The post war trials in Germany showed the world that every citizen has a moral obligation to do what is right. If someone is ordered or feels that they are being forced to participate in an immoral and highly questionable war, such as Vietnam and now Iraq, then it is that persons duty as a human being and an American to do what is they feel is the right thing to do. If that is fail to show up, burn thier draft card or flee to Canada then that's what they should do.
I have no doubt that people would have not a problem with a draft had the USSR just sunk the Atlantic fleet in Norfolk, VA. But peopel are very worried about the draft because they don't want to go to Iraq. Not from fear of fighting or dying but because they know the Iraq war is a sham, that Iraq did not attack the US and that they would not be defending the US from invasion but instead they would be the attacker, the invader, the occupier.
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Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya:)
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I'm not going anywhere. The draft comes they'll grab you before me.
Don't forget to duck.
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Originally posted by Westy
I'm not going anywhere. The draft comes they'll grab you before me.
Don't forget to duck.
Sorry sonny I served my country already
US ARMY SGt E-5 Ret 1976-80
But If they would take my 46 year old asre I would go again in a heart beat.
I owe that much to the men who died before me in ww1 ww2 viet man and countless other wars
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Many people who have served in the Air Force and have gotten out are still under obligation to return in the event they get recalled. More often than not when a major conflict goes off we are all "stop loss" and don't have the option to get out until the stop loss is lifted. The rumour use to be that if you only spent 4 years in your were able to be brought in for 4 more years if needed by the military in a major war. Not sure how true that is because I have yet to find it anywhere.
In the long run it is up to the person to join when and if they are needed by their country. I don't see anything but a major war that would cause folks to start piling up at the recruiting offices and start the whole draft thing again. I'm sure many Americans and their pride for their country would prevail and you'd see alot of volunteers.
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Ah, my bad, sorry for not calling a Big whomping BULL**** on this post before. I didn't bother to read some of the crap that was written.
The Selective Service board has started to prepare to be in a time of a draft ****OF THEIR OWN ACCORD!!!!****
Before all you bush hating pansies say any more **** about bush doing this, notice the last 4 words I said in the paragraph above.
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lasersailor184
I started this thread, I am neither a lefty or a Bush hater.
I am not sure I understand your post, can you elaberate and or give a link? What do you mean they are filling themselves on their own accord? Did the defense department not start sending out requests to get the boards filled again?
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Question? What major wars has America fought without a draft?
None that I know of.
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Good point, but is Iraq a major war? Is the war on Terror a major war?
Will the people of the country stand for the draft? Look what the draft did to us in the 60s, I think this would be a huge mistake for America.
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Originally posted by Westy
They filled out that card they are required to by Federal law. There is nothing voluntary about it in the least.
Read what I said again Westy. Some countries have compulsory service. The US madates that all males, upon reaching legal adulthood, register with the selective service so that they might be called to serve if the need arises. Since most people never get called on, it's not such a bad system. Really, it's a small price to pay to enjoy your way of life. I just don't understand why people get so uptight about the thought that maybe they'll have to make good on it. If they really have a problem fighting for their country (mind you I'm talking last ditch effort), let them move to Canada before we ask for their help. They obviously don't care for the US that much anyway.
The card is voluntary. You can choose not to fill it out, all you have to do is move somewhere else. If you fill it out and stay here, I don't feel sorry if they call your name someday.
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Good point, but is Iraq a major war? Is the war on Terror a major war?
Will the people of the country stand for the draft? Look what the draft did to us in the 60s, I think this would be a huge mistake for America.
At this point, I'd say no. But with only 10 standing divisions it may be. It's really not enough manpower, if you need to rotate units in and out of an area over an extended length of time. They’re also the problem that many of these units are deployed in other parts of the world. They also need to rotate home.
Having lived through the sixties, I was 18 in 1972. The problem I saw with the draft was the college deferments. It was too easy for a large segment of the population to buy their way out of it. If they plan on implementing the same thing, it will be the same old, same old.
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I'm sure the draft would be taken a bit more favorably, if all draftee's bolstered our fight against Al Queda in Afganistan. More attention should be put towards the hunt for OBL and Al Queda in general. The volunteer army should be more focused in Iraq. As it stands, if a draft were to start, everyone knows they would be headed to the desert, not the mountains.
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Gyro
From what I read the coledge loophole is gone.
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Join the Air Force, the food is better and they're working towards one person per room (if they aren't there already).
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Good point, but is Iraq a major war? Is the war on Terror a major war?
I'll bet the good men and women dodging RPG's in Iraq would tell you its a major war. Same with our troops in Afganistan.
cars
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Originally posted by AdmRose
No problem with me, I signed up voluntarily. Leave for basic June 22.
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http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/164693_draft13.html It's about a Month old.
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"mind you I'm talking last ditch effort"
We may be talking on different wavelengths. I'm talking about specificly about the current events and how that relates to a new draft with an end result, probably, of being sent to Iraq. Are you talking in generalisations; being invaded and defending this country?
Regardless of that though I stil find things that you say, such as, " If they really have a problem fighting for their country (mind you I'm talking last ditch effort), let them move to Canada before we ask for their help. They obviously don't care for the US that much anyway." disturbing.
To imply that people do not care or love thier country because they have a different POV about what truly constitutes "serving" thier country is ludicrous. The attitude that we should "do and die and never ask why" is, IMO, very un American to the core. You seem to presume that people should abandon thier rights to independent and to foresake thier morals in order to comply with the bidding of the government, n omatter what that may be.
Sorry. But that is just so wrong.
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I think we are on different wavelengths. I was talking in generalizations, not about right now. I don't really see a draft happening anytime soon, unless a lot more terrorist strikes start hitting America.
I don't think I ever said that everyone should "abandon their rights to independence and forsake their morales to comply with the bidding of the government, no matter what that may be." But I do think it's kinda selfish of people to want to live as an American and not give anything in return, if such a request is made.
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GTO, you are freaking out over nothing. Yes, they are replacing Selective Service Boardmembers and filling empty slots. I personally NEVER REGISTERED for the Draft. I had a better idea, I enlisted on my 17th birthday. Never gave them the chance!:D
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Well, if we have so many volunteers, why do we need the draft? OK, we have the draft, but I wonder if we would have it if it were written that the children of politicians, from the pres on down, must be drafted first.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Well, if we have so many volunteers, why do we need the draft? OK, we have the draft, but I wonder if we would have it if it were written that the children of politicians, from the pres on down, must be drafted first.
No, because the politicians made the draft.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Good point, but is Iraq a major war? Is the war on Terror a major war?
Will the people of the country stand for the draft? Look what the draft did to us in the 60s, I think this would be a huge mistake for America.
This is not a war on terror. Thats like saying this a war on Love... how can you combat terror, when its a feeling. Its really a war on Radical Islamic folks who believe we are satan. But we cant really say "hey this is a war on islam folks die you sacraligious fools!"
The act of terrorisim is something that people do. It just seems foolish. But sh|t.. i don't know didly, because we have folks dieing over this.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Saur,
Well I am old and fat so, they wouldnt take me if I wanted to go.
well old being thirty. MrLars alluded that they may take up to 40 plus year olds for hard to fill jobs but I never saw him post a link and I found nothing about that anywhere.
Sorry 'bout that, here's a link to that info...
November, 2003 – Selective Service 2004 “Performance Plan” summarizes how $28 million will be allocated in 2004 to reduce draft activation time from current 8 months to just 75 days. Nation-wide Readiness Exercises, testing the Draft Lottery and examination system, as well as gearing up the Medical Draft (3.4 million doctors and nurses, men and women age 20-44 are eligible). Ominously, the Alternative Service delivery system for Conscientious Objectors is readied for the first time in decades, with the SSS being funded to compile lists of available Alternative Service jobs for those who win non-military CO status. All systems will be pushed to reach 95% readiness during 2004.
http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html
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RPM, you can enlist on your 17th birthday? What for?
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Rpm who said I was freaking out. I just think it would be a huge mistake, but like I said before, if I get called, I will go, I won't like it but I will do it.
This is not personal fear, this is fear for the greater good of the country.
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I guess if they can't make up the numbers they would have to look at re-instating the draft no matter how unpopular it is. What is the draft age range? Think here it's 18-25 but not sure.
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by hawker238
RPM, you can enlist on your 17th birthday? What for?
Because he is a good American thats what for!
And yes you can enlist at 17 with parents consent.
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Originally posted by hawker238
RPM, you can enlist on your 17th birthday? What for?
I joined the Coast Guard. My Dad served in the CG in WW2 and I wanted to follow in his footsteps. He signed the waiver and off to Boot I went.:D
FWIW every branch accepts 17 year olds with Parental Consent.