Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Bodhi on April 08, 2004, 11:43:21 PM
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I was reading this article on CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/08/iraq.main/index.html
and the sad thing that struck me was that the photographer cared of one thing... the shrecking story. Never mind that the man (prolly a countryman) life is on the line, and yer sad arse is taking a picture. I regress a bit, I remember these same salamanders, taking pictures of our dead, telling them to stop (they continued) and I also remember taking their cameras and smashing them... it is sad, that a living is made off others misery, especially those that are willing to lay it all on the line. I salute the soldiers in arms around our glode and send a handy #1 to all you cameramen the world over, may you die a slow lingering death.
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What he said.
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Amen brudda!
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wrong forum
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For once Beetle is right, :D This is OClub Material,
Personally I would rather a gun than a camera, but that is what some have chosen. I don't think they are there with the malice and contempt that you guys seem to espouse.
The camera man probably got his shots and then did help these guys out.
Why so much hatred toward these guys. Without the cameramen you wouldn’t have anything to show of the hard work and hell these poor bastards that are doing the fighting are enduring. I for one am great full that they are there to help share, document and witness what is going on. If anything you should be pissed at Bush for sending our boys over there in the first place, but that is a different topic.
You guys love all the shots from WWII, who do you think took those photos, the tooth fairy.
On another note...
BTW Beet what was the email address I gave you ( I created it new that day), I forgot it and can't log in to see if you sent any films. lol.
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Robert Capa
"If your pictures aren't good, you're not close enough."
nuff said
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Wrong forum
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Wrong BBS
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I'm willing to bet that the soldiers don't expect help from reporters or cameramen. They are, after all, professionals.
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The soldiers have a job, and the photographers have a job. I like the idea of photographers getting involved in the fight as much as I like the idea of soldiers taking pictures.
They're in a war zone, and there are plenty of people all around them that could use a hand. Wouldn't have time to do their job. And I think it's an important one.
Think of all the images that have affected you, and would not exist if the photographers all had decided to drop their cameras and get involved.
They wouldn't even be in a position to help in the first place if it weren't for recording the event. But once there, they're expected to stop what they're doing and help? Might as well not even bring their cameras.
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Originally posted by Nash
They wouldn't even be in a position to help in the first place if it weren't for recording the event. But once there, they're expected to stop what they're doing and help? Might as well not even bring their cameras.
Now that is a hell of an idea. Perish the thought that a troops life is worth less than a picture. :rolleyes:
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Snap! Nash. I was thinking exactly what you said when I scrolled down your post.
I've noticed that soldiers tend to get deified a bit on this board. As I understand it that in the west they are volunteers, so they know the risks and choose to take that job.
If they choose to take the job because it is protecting their country (or other people's countries) then, yes, that is something to applaud. But then we should applaud even more volunatry workers like the Red Cross, who go into war zones and have nothing to defend themselves at all.
Ravs
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( To my friend Mav :) )
That didn't take long - was wondering who was going to be the 1st to say it is all. :)
I ask you to imagine what it would be like for you to have zero clue about what is going on, anywhere in the world - with your only source being the government.
Because that's the logical extension of that sentiment.
Picture it:
Some general will hold a press conference, and say XYZ happened. And that's all you would ever know of it. He could say anything at all... and nobody would know any different.
WWII, Vietnam, the Gulf - You would have no idea what those things even looked like.
Just some talk of a thing called war.
Comfortable with that?
I swear, it's that dude in the movie on the top of Hamburger Hill's fault. :)
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Remember that picture of the vietnamese child, running naked down a road and burning with napalm?
Or the picture of the US helicopter pilot being dragged through the streets of Somalia?
That one image can shape policy.
Ravs
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Originally posted by Maverick
Now that is a hell of an idea. Perish the thought that a troops life is worth less than a picture. :rolleyes:
That made me think of something...
You say "perish the thought that a troop's life is worth less than a picture."
I think it's possible that one picture could end up saving 1000's of troop's lives. It's possible.
Yeah, ravells, I actually had that Vietnam picture in my mind when I was thinking about this.
But... photographers would suck as doctors, and would suck even worse as soldiers. So lets expect them to do both and leave the cameras at home. Wot?
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Well, this BBS (naturally given the game we play) is generally populated by people who have a particular view about war, which is why soldiers tend to get elevated above other, far more brave and unarmed people who are involved in conflicts.
Ravs
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:D
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N o o ....
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Well, then I'll add my 2 cents and make a run for it myself.
War photographers aint brave. They're butterin' loony tunes.
:)
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Agreed. Like mountain climbers.
Saw 'touching the void' last night. Horrific
Ravs
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Hey - I read a review about that film, and the critic was saying that out of all the horrible things in it, the most jarring and disturbing was the scene where some guy got a BoneyM song stuck in his head, and it nearly drove him insane.
Like, a scene where a guy gets a song stuck in his head was just that intense.
I've been totally curious about it.
What was up with that?
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I don't want to spoil it for you, but the 'Boney M' thing was when one of the climbers had been badly injured and the song 'Brown Girl in the Ring' kept playing through his head, after six days drinking snow as water and without food, when he was stuck on a glacier - which he hated (the song).
Watch the move, it's shot like a documentry, but it is just so gripping you won't turn the telly over. Even better, get the DVD and see the extras about what happened afterwards.
Ravs
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Will do - have heard great things about it.
Mostly I'll be looking out for coping strategies for dealing with crap songs getting stuck in my head.
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The worst thing was that after watching the film, I was gardening this afternoon and double digging (back breaking and repetative work) ... and guess what was playing through my head?
bloody movie!
Ravs
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Put yourselves in that situation and then tell me that the photographer belongs there. It is pure greed that they are there. They walk away with the "picture", and get paid, while the soldier whose torment they just captured suffers. As for the stuff about WW2 photographers... that was a soldier taking 99% of the American stuff, as there were combat photographers as an MO in the military at the time. They were also required to lend aid as opposed to the current salamanders out there. Journalism of today is pure sensationalism and greed, whatever sells, and I for one am tired of it. Believe what you will, but those that have been there will side with me.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Put yourselves in that situation and then tell me that the photographer belongs there. It is pure greed that they are there. They walk away with the "picture", and get paid, while the soldier whose torment they just captured suffers. As for the stuff about WW2 photographers... that was a soldier taking 99% of the American stuff, as there were combat photographers as an MO in the military at the time. They were also required to lend aid as opposed to the current salamanders out there. Journalism of today is pure sensationalism and greed, whatever sells, and I for one am tired of it. Believe what you will, but those that have been there will side with me.
RGR that.
There should be no profit in the suffering of our troops.
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I don't know how much a war photographer gets paid, but I don't think it's so much that they will throw themselves into a war zone to get 'that photo', even if it means they may get killed.
It would be much easier taking a picture of Britney Spears giving someone a BJ with a zoom lens. Now that's where the money is.
Ravs
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Originally posted by Bodhi
They walk away with the "picture", and get paid, while the soldier whose torment they just captured suffers.
... and gets paid.
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Bullett! That's a very muslim concept!
Not making a profit out of the suffering of others.
Ravs
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Originally posted by Nash
... and gets paid.
I take it you have never served.
You can not pay enough money to a man who just had his arm shot to pieces.
What price would you put on that?
So untill you have worn the uniform and served please stop making an arse out of you self and STFU.
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Many war photographers have died too.
What about them?
Ravs
p.s. no, I have never served.
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Yeah wot Rav said.
And...
Until YOU... er what was it you said?
Oh... untill you have worn a camera and swiss army knife in a war zone please stop making an arse out of you self and STFU.
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Originally posted by ravells
Many war photographers have died too.
What about them?
Ravs
p.s. no, I have never served.
I feel no pitty for those vulchers who profit of the images of the dead and injured.
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What about people who are trying to report what is happening on the front line to the populace who want to know whether they ought to be in favour or against a war?
Ravs
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Originally posted by ravells
What about people who are trying to report what is happening on the front line to the populace who want to know whether they ought to be in favour or against a war?
Ravs
LOL the people it truly matters to are already there!
Fighting and dying.
To the rest of the world It Is just a sound bite on the evening news.
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The forces are an extension of the nation's will.
Most of the nation are at home. They need the news to understand whether the forces are fighting and dying for a just cause. The people who are fighting and dying are just obeying orders, which ultimately come from the people at home.
Ravs
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Originally posted by ravells
The forces are an extension of the nations will.
Most of the nation are at home. They need the news to understand whether the forces are fighting and dying for a just cause. The people who are fighting and dying are just obeying orders, which ultimately come from the people at home.
Ravs
To be honest with you I see no cause worth Americans dying over.
Unless someone attacks us.
OH waite they did(9-11)
I Think the real point is if a soldier or Marine is hurt for crying out loud take the time to help him.
I mean watermelon you are already there!
Show some humanity fer Gods sake.
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What is so difficult here?
a) Photographers perform a neccessary service.
b) Soldiers perform a neccessary service.
c) Both were trained to perform that particular service. Photographers were not trained to point a gun in the right direction. They were not trained to close a wound. Soldiers were not trained in lighting and shutter speed.
d) Just like soldiers, photographers get paid for the particular service they were trained for.
e) Just like soldiers dropping their weapons to pick up cameras, photographers would be equally useless if they dropped their cameras to pick up weapons.
f) Just like soldiers, photographers do not return to their Manhattan penthouses.
If something's troubling you about all this.... it's in one of these points probably. Which is it?
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To be honest with you I see no cause worth Americans dying over.
Unless someone attacks us.
OH waite they did(9-11)
As I recall there were some pretty brave cameramen and photographers at the WTC on that day.
Which is where you get your information.
Ravs
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Not asking a photo hog to pick up a gun LOL.
I am asking If he sees a fallen soldier that he might pull or carry him to safety.
Thats all I would ever expect of a civilian.
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And If need be maybe give CPR if he knows It.
And there are alot of people who know CPR and If they dont they should .
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This is the picture we're talking about?
(http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/WORLD/meast/04/08/iraq.main/story.fallujah.tank.jpg)
Pretend we aren't even having this discussion, or any like it, because no pictures, nor any like it, exist.
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Nash...you're good.
Very good.
Ravs
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You are missing the point.
There are more concerned about getting that picture than there fellow human beings welfare.
Hell by all means take your silly picture ! then help the poor guy out.
A human life MUST be worth more than ANY picture .
If not we truly have lost our huminity and we are fighting just for the sake of fighting.
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I saw the video of the guys coming out of the tank...one guy came out holding a bloody arm, the other ( the one in the pic I think) came partially out then collapsed. It was painfull for me to see that... very painful.
I also saw the pics of the Japanese civilians...... so heartbreaking...I prayed for them a couple times this morning and I think about how terrified they must be.
I hate evil people.
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As long as the human in question is on your side?
Ravs
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Originally posted by bullett308
You are missing the point.
There are more concerned about getting that picture than there fellow human beings welfare.
How do you know?
I admit I am missing your point... by about a hundred miles. But you're missing mine. Right?
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Yeah the japanese are in a tough spot .
But they are a strong people and will not bow down to cowards.
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Me too Nuke, but do you know what?
We cannot be sentimental about this. We have to win this conflict and make Iraq a better place to live for everybody who lives there. We have to make a better peace. That is the only true point of war.
We are being needled by people who do not want that result. But we must obtain it.
Otherwise we're back to the league of nations in the 1930s
Ravs
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Originally posted by Nash
How do you know?
I admit I am missing your point... by about a hundred miles. But your missing mine. Right?
Seen It time and time again where they will be filming a fire fight and someone will get wounded and they keep on filming.
And the poor dude wounded crawling on the ground trying to get to cover.
When all the camera dude had to do was set his rig down for a minute and help the man get to safe cover.
Show some Balz and heart.
But nope they just keep on a filming.
I fail to see how anyone could be proud of them for that.
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Not his job, bullet. How many soldiers have you seen pick up a camera and continue filming when the press guy has been shot?
Ravs
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Can we agree that in a fight, there's gonna be a bunch of wounded people?
I mean, lotsa wounded people and plenty of people that need help?
So really, there's no damn time for taking pictures.
I have a better idea.
Lets send in a bunch of photographers into the fight anyways, without their cameras... And let them go from person to wounded person. Helping out by such things as saying "Oh my god are you ok?!"
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Originally posted by ravells
Not his job, bullet. How many soldiers have you seen pick up a camera and continue filming when the press guy has been shot?
Ravs
I bet a soldier would drag a wounded cameramans arse to safety!
In fact I know he would.
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Yes, I agree, Bullett.
My bad.
sorry.
Ravs
[edit] ... but didn't Nash just post a picture of a cameraman who pulled a soldier to safety?
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Originally posted by Nash
So really, there's no damn time for taking pictures.
Ok how do they get the pictures then?
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A photographer prolly couldn't even lift a soldier's left arm.
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Originally posted by Nash
A photographer prolly couldn't even lift a soldier's left arm.
Although most are gay there are some that are in pretty good shape:D
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Originally posted by bullett308
Ok how do they get the pictures then?
Well, because of the small issue being that my example was hypothetical.
But you raise a good point.
How WOULD they get the pictures then?
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LOL.
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Originally posted by bullett308
Although most are gay there are some that are in pretty good shape:D
Most are gay?
Nah...
Those guys aint gay. They're nuts. They aint gay.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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Lastly, two words:
Prime directive.
Yep.
Think about it.
(while I go keeeel yer squadmates)
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This is getting silly now!
So I'll just post up an picture of the 'Royal Order of Antideluvian Buffalos'.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/258_1081563441_lodge.jpg)
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Originally posted by ravells
Me too Nuke, but do you know what?
We cannot be sentimental about this. We have to win this conflict and make Iraq a better place to live for everybody who lives there. We have to make a better peace. That is the only true point of war.
We are being needled by people who do not want that result. But we must obtain it.
Otherwise we're back to the league of nations in the 1930s
Ravs
I agree Ravs and thanks.
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we may differ on the methods, but we all want peace.
Ravs
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Im not sure what the blokes name is, but back when Allied troops were going into Bagdhad at the 'begining' of this war, there was an Australian news camera man filming a patrol of US troops (Marines, I think).
Anyway, they were attacked, and several men were either killed outright or badly wounded.
The cameraman pretty much threw his camera down, and raced out and dragged a badly wounded US soldier behind cover, before giving emergency first aid, and using the radio on the man's back to call for help, all while under enemy fire, pretty much pinned down.
The camera happened to fall in such a way that nearly all of this was captured on film by the way.
Turned out that the camera man was a serving member of the Australian SASR until recently, and was allso a trained medic.
If he hadnt have been where he was, and done what he did, there is little doubt that more troops would have died than actually did that day.
That guy pointing a camera around the place may just be as well, if not more, trained in the activities of those he films than they themselves are.
He may allso be a very brave individual, and actually be the deciding factor between life and death for some of those he films.
Dont make the mistake of lumping everyone with a camera into the 'money hungry- no help in a bad situation- spineless parasite' mold, for many of them are far from that.
Blue