Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: artik on April 09, 2004, 08:23:52 AM
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At 26th this month Israel celebrates its 56th Independence Day.
I would like to ask the CT community and the CMs team to set up 1948 Independence War at Combat Theatre at this week.
The 101 "Red" Squ. Israel will be very glad to play these days its historical role.
Thanks,
Setup
It had allready been set but I would like to add some changes to make it more interesting and fix previous mistakes.
Israel Air Force:
[list=1]
- S-199 Avia (Bf109G6)
- Spitfire Mk IX
- Mossqiuto VI
- P-51D (limited)
- B-17G (limited)
- Ms, Panzer
- C-47
Royal Egyptian Air Force:
[list=1]
- Spitfire Mk V
- C-205
- Harvard Mk II (SBD)
- A20 (subsit for C47 bomber)
- Spitfire Mk XIV - RAF - limited (Britan Forces Were based in Egypt and had several interceptions with IAF)
- Ms, Panzer
- C-47
Settings:
- ACKs hardness 50kg - to prevent easy land grabbing
- 15 troops required to capture base - to prevent easy land grabbing
- Limiting of planes was done on bases - I think it would be better to give high perks Spit 14 - 20 perks and P-51D - 15
The rest same
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Sounds good to me, I enjoyed that set.
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Let's help our Israeli friends commemorate this occasion, the set up was fun too.
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I'll add couple of nice historical photos of that period:
(http://www.101squadron.com/101real/assets/images/S199_pics/d120.jpg)
(http://www.101squadron.com/101real/assets/images/Spit_pics/escort1-49.jpg)
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The AVIA S-199 "Mule" wasn't called that by Israeli pilots for nothing. IMO the ME-109E would be more appropriate that the 109G model for this aircraft.
ARTIK! :aok
MOZELTOV! :D
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You people need to work on the numbers for this set up to fun. The 19 vs 2 land grab all week is crap.
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IMO the ME-109E would be more appropriate that the 109G model for this aircraft.
First The reason 109G6 subsits Avia is that 109E or 109F can easily dogfight Spitfire Mk IX (S199) couldn't. Actually Avia S-199 had 109g14 fuselage and another engine. So 109g6 subsits it quite well even 109g6 better then Avia.
Secondly 109g6 very close to C205 so the setup become more ballanced.
Third - 109G6 is allready reskinned as S-199 ;)
You people need to work on the numbers for this set up to fun. The 19 vs 2 land grab all week is crap.
That is why I asked to incease the hardness of ACKs and the number of troops required for capture.
Numbers - I think if RAF Spit 14 will have perk cost it will make it more avialable for people - and if they do not what to "fly like an Egyptian" they will as British.
BTW there were couple of "accindents" when RAF Spitfires were shut down by Israeli Spitfires.
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Originally posted by Slash27
You people need to work on the numbers for this set up to fun. The 19 vs 2 land grab all week is crap.
One more idea to bring better numbers for REAF/RAF side vs IAF.
RAF had used not only Spitfires but Tempests also (couple of these were shot down by IAF Spits too :D )
So if we will add perked Tempest (20-25 perks) for RAF it will give higher numbers for REAF/RAF side.
I think fighting RAF vs IAF will be quite fun (of course it should be limited with perks).
So......... what do you think CMs?
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I am looking forward to see this setup if they come to Combat Theater soon and the setup look really fun!
BTW, Wasn't Chris Magee(Former VMF-214) flow S-199 in 1948? Just wonder.
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Originally posted by Rafe35
BTW, Wasn't Chris Magee(Former VMF-214) flow S-199 in 1948? Just wonder.
Yes, he did, but he never got into combat.
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I think fighting RAF vs IAF will be quite fun
The final few days this ran last time the numbers werent too bad and it was alot of fun.
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That set up was real good. IIRC the egyptians had a hard time chasing ppl down because everyone was running from the spitV's. the G6 was very effective, I think that was the only complaint I heard. The fights with the spit 14 were pretty good also.
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Originally posted by Grits
Yes, he did, but he never got into combat.
Thanks. I did thought he enter combat and i guess i was wrong.
Rafe
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There is the list (not completed) (http://www.101squadron.com/101real/people.html) of the 101 squadron people - pilots and ground crew who were involved in Independence War.
This list is not full and probably some forgein volonteers missed. But it could be interesting as hole page of .101 Red Squadron (http://www.101squadron.com/101real/101sqn.html)
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Originally posted by artik
There is the list (not completed) (http://www.101squadron.com/101real/people.html) of the 101 squadron people - pilots and ground crew who were involved in Independence War.
This list is not full and probably some forgein volonteers missed. But it could be interesting as hole page of .101 Red Squadron (http://www.101squadron.com/101real/101sqn.html)
Interesting roster lists. :)
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So...........
I'd like to ask if it is going to be the setup for 22/4 (I know we still have hole week before)?
We (101 squ) need to plane some activity for this time if it will be hosted!
Thanks,
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Punt ;)
So could it be done?
As it was done once according to request of Finland Squ. in the week of its independence day?
22/4 - 1948 Independence War.
Thank you,
waiting for replay.
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Thank you,
I thought that if Fin squ. can get for their independence day FinRus setup, 101 Red squ. can get also......
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This request should be honored
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Originally posted by artik
Thank you,
I thought that if Fin squ. can get for their independence day FinRus setup, 101 Red squ. can get also......
I hope that you get your setup for yours independence day.
See you later in CT.
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*thumbs up* that U can get it, Artik.
-RBug-
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I thought that if Fin squ. can get for their independence day FinRus setup, 101 Red squ. can get also......
That would be fair.
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Originally posted by artik
Thank you,
I thought that if Fin squ. can get for their independence day FinRus setup, 101 Red squ. can get also......
Artik.
With all due respect I have to dissagree with you. Yeah the Finns get their map occasionally , but it's a Finn/Russ map. Plus this was part of WWII. This is supposed to be a WWII sim . I realize people have taken upon themselves in the past to make post WWII scenarios . Just my opinon................... They suck.
The Arab/Isreali wars are not WWII, just like the soccer war isnt WWII. If Isreals war of independance had been part of WWII , and if we had the correct aircraft that would be one thing. However if this keeps up at least once a month somebody from somewhere is going to want a special week just because it's their countrys independance day , and they used some type of WWII fighter or an obscure version of a WWII fighter in their war of independance.
Isreali pilots flew for the RAF during WWII , and people of the Jewish faith flew , and fought with honor in many of the Allied Air Forces. Why can't their memories be honored this week by shooting down some FW-190s, and BF-109s, from a Spitfire based in the U.K. in Forks planned setup?
If your not going to do special setups for every squadron you shouldnt do them for any squadron.
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Löwe....
I would disagree with you about WWII setups only. All the time we have some different non-WW2 scenarios, like Soccer War, The 1946 Okniawa - alternative reality and others.
There are part of people that see in AH WWII only game, but lost see also the ability to represent other periods and situations. And it heppens all the time. Part of the less succecfull, and part of them very nice and usefull (even if the in non-WW2 frame).
Most of people enjoy these setups. So do not not see any reason that sucesseful setup (with low number of subsituations, good map and skin relevant to the setup) will not return on some point.
If there will be other setups like Korean War (with terrain and suitable setup) most of players will enjoy.
There are allways people that do not like certain setups for some reason. (me of example - I do not like early PTO) - but if setup is good it still can return at some point.
1948 Setup was quite sucessefull (like others 1948 Okinawa). So I do not see any reason not to return to them on some point - even they non-WW2.
Actually I would like to see much more non-WW2 setups that could be done with abuilities AH gives us.
So I think that it could be done. If you are talking about Independence Day request............ I still think if it is possible to do it could be done just because the setup is good and the timing is good IMHO.
At least an ansver from CM team could be given positive or negative, or at least some reaction..........
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Artik.
We just have a difference in taste. You like the post WWII stuff, I don't. I forgotten about the Korea setups, I hate those too.;) Again thats just a difference in taste. However I agree with you on the early PTO's.
I also agree with you , that the CM staff should have said yes or no last week when you brought this up. :)
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Originally posted by artik
Most of people enjoy these setups.
I have little interest in setups outside of the WWII. I can put up with the occasional novelty setup provided it doesn't happen too often. I occasionally even find it fun to play a novelty setup for a couple of hours, however all non-WWII setups lose their novelty for me after a couple of hours and I tend to stay away from the CT after the novelty has worn off. I'll bet there are others like me.
I'll bet too, that there are regulars in the CT who have made the choice not to play in the MA so no matter what is the CT setup is, that's where you'll find them. I'll even bet there are people who dislike a setup but faced with the choice of playing in a setup they don't like, going to the MA to play on the terrain they despise, or not playing at all will make the choice to play in the CT where the setup is only mildy disturbing.
I hope you aren't including everyone who played in the CT in the past novelty setups in your list of "...people [who] enjoy these setups".
A repeat of a novelty setup I've already played will just see me playing in the MA or not playing at all.
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The issue of non-standard/non-WW2 setups has been rised not once.
I think it is mostly the question of taste (as I do not like early setups - specially PTO)
But I still think that people enjoy them.
One of the most important points when submitting non-standard CT setup is to do in at good level - relevant terrain, skins, subsituations, game ballance.
This issue had been rised not once so..... we can put one more thread about non-standard setups to discuss them once more - but looks like this isn't the relevant theread IMHO
BIG <<>>
See you all at CT
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Originally posted by artik
The issue of non-standard/non-WW2 setups has been rised not once.
One of the most important points when submitting non-standard CT setup is to do in at good level - relevant terrain, skins, subsituations, game ballance.
You're side-stepping the issue here and just muddying the waters. These points should be and generally are minimum requirements for all setups. Just because a proposed setup meets these minimum requirements it doesn't necessarily follow that it must be used.
This issue had been rised not once so..... we can put one more thread about non-standard setups to discuss them once more - but looks like this isn't the relevant theread IMHO
Actually, when ever a novelty setup is proposed or implemented this issue is raised. This issue is therefore relevant and pertinant to the discussion.
My objection in my original post in this thread was to your claim that "most people enjoy these setups". You have provided nothing in the way of evidence to support your claim.
In fact, if you actually understand what I am saying in my post you'll see that I have stated that there are reasons other than an unabashed fondness for a setup that motivate people to play it and therefore the implication of my post is nothing more or less than don't confuse the lack of violent opposition to a position as agreement with it.
I would like to thank you for providing me with the opportunity to reinforce my argument.
Cheers,
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Ok........
I'll talk about one of the last setups - 1946 Second Wind.
The numbers during this setup were very high. (I would said much more then average).
At 1948 setup the numbers were normal (that what I can remember).
The non-sucesseful setup that I remeber was Soccer War (the number were quite low - below the normal.
However in lot on WW2 setup I've seen very low numbers. Like one of the recent setups Spit-5+Typhoon vs 109G2/F4.
Conclusions:
- The setup will not be much sucessefull if it will not have relevant terrain, skins etc (Soccer War).
- There are lots of WW2 setups that below then average in numbers.
- If we realte to numbers as only objective measurment that most of people enjoy it so we can see that WW2 setups do not have advantege over non-WW2 setups (like 1946 Second Wind)
That is the point why I tell that most people enjoy non-WW2 setups. Probably I had too tell good non-WW2 setups.
So if you or me or any other else do not like certain setups that is question of taste. And we all different people ;)
I will not tell do not put early PTO because certain gorup of players do not like it.
So I think I have given enough arguments to tell most of people like good non-WW2 setups and of course I do not want to tell that all of CT players like non-WW2 setups ;)
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I don't think there's anywhere near a majority of CT regulars who really like the non-WWII setups. But that's just my opinion. Like you, I have nothing more to base it on that a gut feeling.
Speaking as someone who flies CT, and CT only:
I thought the Soccer War thing stunk.
I thought the Kadesh idea was goofy.
I thought the Israeli War for Independence setup was almost as goofy.
I thought the Korea idea was just stupid.
And I thought the "Breaking Wind" "Last Gasp" or "Divine Fart" or whatever the heck that jet-laced Japanese setup was called just blew chunks.
But that's just me. YMMV.
(BTW, I don't think numbers are a fair gauge of popularity with players. Too many other factors weigh in on any given day.)
How about this July we work out a setup so the 8th Air Force goes back in time to wing up with the Continental Army? Would be a hoot strafing Red Coats, wot?
Still, happy Independence Day. And I really mean that.
Splash1
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Originally posted by detch01
I'll bet too, that there are regulars in the CT who have made the choice not to play in the MA so no matter what is the CT setup is, that's where you'll find them. I'll even bet there are people who dislike a setup but faced with the choice of playing in a setup they don't like, going to the MA to play on the terrain they despise, or not playing at all will make the choice to play in the CT where the setup is only mildy disturbing.
Thats me exactly.
I thought the Independance set was OK, better than a late war VVS set by a long shot.
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Originally posted by Dennis
And I thought the "Breaking Wind" "Last Gasp" or "Divine Fart" or whatever the heck that jet-laced Japanese setup was called just blew chunks.
I put alot of work into the presentation of that setup, no matter what you thought. I'd appreciate you not belittling my part in it. Show some initiative and work on one yourself. Have a nice fuggin' day stunninghunk. :D
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Dennis,
Thanks again for your comments on Second Wind. However if you had taken the time to fly it you might have liked it...well maybe not since you appear to only want BoB and Western Europe Theater setups. But at least you could have given it a shot instead of blatantly staying out of it.
I for one do my best to try and get in some time in all the setups. Even the one's that I don't really care for but I will at least give each setup as much time as I humanly can with all the real life things that intervene on play time.
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I need to give my 2 cents worth on this hotly debated subject:
ZzzzzzzzzzzzZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZ ZZ
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If that's the best ya got .... why bother? Oh yeah ... attention starvation. ;)
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Arlo - 4,338 posts
DktrEvil - 4 posts
hmmmmmmmmm......... I think someone is starving for attention more than I am
P.S. Just pulling your chain, we all appreciate your efforts
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I thought they are all pretty good even the Divine fart one - good practice in 262's!!
But we desperately need more planes for CT setup - roll on AH2 and definitive planset!
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Originally posted by DktrEvil
Arlo - 4,338 posts
DktrEvil - 4 posts
hmmmmmmmmm......... I think someone is starving for attention more than I am
Ooooohh......DktrEvil, spawncamping in the CT forum. :D
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Originally posted by Reschke
Dennis,
Thanks again for your comments on Second Wind. However if you had taken the time to fly it you might have liked it...well maybe not since you appear to only want BoB and Western Europe Theater setups. But at least you could have given it a shot instead of blatantly staying out of it.
I for one do my best to try and get in some time in all the setups. Even the one's that I don't really care for but I will at least give each setup as much time as I humanly can with all the real life things that intervene on play time.
it's called "voting with your feet." one can comment on a setup even if one doesn't actually fly it. i didn't fly the dvine fart either - it had absolutely zero (heh) appeal. doesn't mean others didn't enjoy it.
there are some setups i don't bother with, or very little. there's other things to do than slog thru a setup that one doesn't find enjoyable for *whatever* reason.
ymmv and all that.
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Originally posted by Shane
one can comment on a setup even if one doesn't actually fly it.
And such commentary is weighed and measured for what it's worth. ;)
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I liked Devine Far...I mean Second Wind because I got to fly a plane that I would not otherwise have been able to, the 262, for an extended period. If you were not going to fly the 262, the setup was probably not that fun for very long.
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Arlo,
Rough if my distaste for the jet thang that passed for a CT setup rubs you the wrong way. The idea blew chunks. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. If you want to consider that a personal attack on you, so be it. Without going back and dredging through the old threads on it, I would have been hardpressed to tell you who was responsible for it .... but I don't really care.
Reschke,
Actually, I prefer the PTO setups (at least the ones where someone doesn't pull jets outa their arse) but I usually enjoy something about most of them. The only setups I really don't care for are the very late-war ones -- and the goofball, postwar, fantasy ones that were the subject of my post.
No reason we can't all have our favorites. And our dislikes. I thought this was all about the folly of doing post-war setups?
As shane mentioned, it's called voting with one's feet. We all have demands on our time; no need to p!ss it away on things that do not interest us.
Splash1
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Originally posted by Dennis
Arlo,
Rough if my distaste for the jet thang that passed for a CT setup rubs you the wrong way. The idea blew chunks.
It's not your opinion of the idea (as "worthy" as it was) that I took issue with. Show a lil respect for the efforts of others even when you critique the end product. That goes for the rest of you goobers, as well. If you didn't like the premise of "SECOND WIND" (even without giving it a half second of your time) then so be it.
However ....
As far as the opinions of absentee players is concerned, rest assured that they're given the creedence they're worth. "You didn't like it - you didn't fly it - therefore it sucked" only goes so far on the feedback meter.
Take your ball ....
:D
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Originally posted by Arlo
As far as the opinions of absentee players is concerned, rest assured that they're given the creedence they're worth. "You didn't like it - you didn't fly it - therefore it sucked" only goes so far on the feedback meter.
Take your ball ....
:D
Rest assured that the opinion of players, absentee or otherwise, is given very little creedence. I've been around the CT long enough to observe that.
With rare exception, the designers of scenerios do pretty much as they please.
And whether you think my feedback on the folly of fantasy setup ideas is worthy does not concern me.
So take your meter ...
(insert faux smiley here)
Splash1
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Originally posted by Dennis
Rest assured that the opinion of players, absentee or otherwise, is given very little creedence. I've been around the CT long enough to observe that.
With rare exception, the designers of scenerios do pretty much as they please.
And whether you think my feedback on the folly of fantasy setup ideas is worthy does not concern me.
So take your meter ...
(insert faux smiley here)
Splash1
1: BS
2: If you're not concerned then don't concern OTHERS with it.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Didn't realise this thread took a different turn, but I'd like to cast one vote for "blew chunks" too, in regards to Second wind brought to you by crayola.
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Boo ****in hoo Bug. Please give Bug the next position open on the CT staff so it can be done right.
Rest assured that the opinion of players, absentee or otherwise, is given very little creedence.
Seems alot better now than it has been in a long time.
I don't think there's anywhere near a majority of CT regulars who really like the non-WWII setups
"Divine Fart" wasnt a non-WW2 or post WW2 set up.
And I thought the "Breaking Wind" "Last Gasp" or "Divine Fart" or whatever the heck that jet-laced Japanese setup was called just blew chunks.
Actually it was the best of the bunch:D I think the BoB set up is boring as hell, but some like it so I dont spend all week pissing and moaning about it.
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There are allways people that do not like certain setups.
For example I do not like early/mid PTO.
But I really like late war Eurpian Theatre and Late War Easter Front.
All we differnet people and have different tastes that is naturally.....
However there are lots of players that like Early PTO and do not like late war setups...... so what should we do?
I think we should learn to fly planes we do not know (F4F for me that I do not really like in early PTO or Spit 1 in other setups, and 262 or Yak-9 for others)
So..... I think we should be more tolerant to each other preferences otherwise only we get is lots of posts at BBS that deals with nothing.....
Sometimes it become really too much non nesserry noise on this BBS.
IMHO ;)
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AMIN ARTIK AMIN :aok
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Originally posted by Slash27
Seems alot better now than it has been in a long time.
Might be. Depends on the scenerio designer. Some are more reasonable than others, it seems. Sometimes it's a posting error. ;)
"Divine Fart" wasnt a non-WW2 or post WW2 set up.
When and where during WWII did it happen? Japanese rockets and jets vs. allied aircraft.
I think the BoB set up is boring as hell, but some like it so I dont spend all week pissing and moaning about it.
Agreed on the pissing and moaning. I might post a complaint at the outset of the week, then just stay away if it's not my cup'o'tea. All of the venom on this bbs and in the arena is the prime reason I'm drifting away from AH.
My comments about this trend of non-historical matchups in the CT were blunt, but honest. A symptom, perhaps, of my frustration. I'll drop it.
Splash1
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Originally posted by Dennis
Rest assured that the opinion of players, absentee or otherwise, is given very little creedence. I've been around the CT long enough to observe that.
With rare exception, the designers of scenerios do pretty much as they please.
And whether you think my feedback on the folly of fantasy setup ideas is worthy does not concern me.
Splash1
Rest assured that the people who are on CT Staff do take the time to see what players like or dislike about setups. But you have your right to believe that we don't care.
I can't speak for everyone else but I look at all the comments of the people that take the time (not just one 15 minute flight) to be a part of the setup for a little while. Even if it doesn't appeal to you then drop in and try it and then give me your opinion.
As a Staffer if a player submits an idea then I hash it out and talk to the player about it before going to the CT Staff with it. Then I take it to the staff after I have a good feeling about it and then we of the Staff tend to bang on it and talk about it quite a bit and let the submitting person know of the changes. If they don't agree and we don't agree then the setup will not run. If we all agree then the setup will be run.
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In case anybody cares ............................. ... I enjoyed playing the Second Wind setup. It was a blast flying the Jet bombers and 163's.
I even saw LtMagee (aka P6EHawk) flying Axis.
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When and where during WWII did it happen? Japanese rockets and jets vs. allied aircraft.
It didnt. It was in the works according to some and the A-bombs kind of delayed.(till we ran it I guess:D ) Its a fantasy set up but its not post or non WW2.
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It's not that the staff does not listen to the community it's just that the community says so much that it is impossible to please everyone. Dennis here does not think this setup is a good idea, but I can go back in the thread and find several people who have indicated that they enjoyed this setup the last time it ran. As the staffer, who do I choose to please this week? I can run this setup and honor what I feel is a resonable request by Artik and co. Or I can say screw them I don't want to fly in an Israeli setup, I'm going to run Okinawa instead (a setup I'd very much like to see run again in the near future, and is perhaps the one I have the most fun flying).
I knew that no matter which one I choose I'm gonna catch flak for it. It's just a fact of life, everyone has their favorites, no one is going to get what they want every week because it's impossible. But we in the staff try our best to see that everyone gets somthing they like on a fairly consistent basis.
I think the fact that this setup is being run period demonstrates that we in the staff do listen to the community.
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Hey, Im easy (no comments from the peanut gallery), I like anything that doesnt have the La7 in it. Everything else is:aok
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whats your problem with the Labiaskin7?
that plane simply owns. and it's not as easy to fight in as some think. nothing, i mean nothing beats whacking nikis and spits with a tnb la7.
it's easy to run in, sure, but then there are faster planes that do the same.
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My problem is self inflicted Shane. I choose as a matter of principle to always fly on the side which is outnumbered. Guess who always has the most numbers in VVS sets, usually by a large margine? As a result I never get to fly the La7, instead I get pummeled by them for 6-1/2 days. Its really the only plane I just cant seem to do well against no matter what I do. Contributing to it is the Yak9U, which makes a 1-2 punch that is just really hard to beat. I'm not going to give up though, I'm nothing if not stubborn when it comes to getting better as a pilot.
Maybe next time we have a set with the La7 in it I'll break my rule for a bit and fly it some.
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la7's (and yak9u's) are almost as rare as hogs... you see la5's and yak9t's more often.
109's are vvs killer's tho', especially the g10.