Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: hblair on April 09, 2004, 11:40:12 AM
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Last week, dad had to go see our accountant about some business stuff. Our accountant, David, is a super nice guy about my age. Pop said he was acting all nervous. He then told pop his brother had been killed in Iraq the night before.
Later that day we see some of the newsclips on tv about the 4 civilian contractors who were brutalized after they were dead. I was thinking his brother was one of the military killed by the roadside bomb the same day.
Well, I was thumbing thru newsweek this morning. They had photos of the bodies being played with. Some 12 year old looking boys were pulling and throwing around a badly burned mangled corpse. All had smiles of pure joy on their faces. Another photo showed part of a body being hung from the bridge.
I flipped open our local paper and see a piece about "Veteran with local ties killed in Iraq" hmm, must be Davids brother I think. I start reading about Mike teague of Clarksville tennessee. A man with a wife and 16 year old son. Active in his sons baseball. Active in church and just an all around good man. He was a 12 year veteran of the army. Served in Grenada, Panama, served as a bodyguard to a colonel in Afghanistan where he recieved a bronze star. He was apparently working for blackwater security service when their two vehicles were attacked by thugs, killed, mutilated and their bodies played with like toys.
Man if this happened to my brother i dont know if I could handle it. Being killed in action is one thing, but being treated like this is something else. The photos in newsweek could very possibly be of this man. Until we're more brutal, savage and scarey as these fools I dont see us winning against fundamental extremists. Maybe I'm wrong.
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Until we're more brutal, savage and scarey as these fools I dont see us winning against fundamental extremists. Maybe I'm wrong.
Nope, your not wrong.
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Originally posted by Monk
Nope, your not wrong.
Yeah, what we need to do is turn this country into a theocracy with extremist beliefs and inflict acts of terrorism upon other countries. Yeah, that would do it. We'd for sure win then. :rolleyes:
h
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shoot the basterds and bury em with pork.
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OH MY COD!
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Sad news is even sadder when it hits home. Sorry for your friend's loss hBlair.
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Originally posted by hblair
The photos in newsweek could very possibly be of this man. Until we're more brutal, savage and scarey as these fools I dont see us winning against fundamental extremists.
Perhaps if you kill enough of them you can start putting them in mass graves. Indeed fight the enemy by becoming everything you hate about the enemy.
:rolleyes:
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Man if this happened to my brother i dont know if I could handle it. Being killed in action is one thing, but being treated like this is something else. The photos in newsweek could very possibly be of this man. Until we're more brutal, savage and scarey as these fools I dont see us winning against fundamental extremists. Maybe I'm wrong.
Fortunately for the German people and the rest of the world, we didn't do unto the Germans as they did unto the Jews in WWII.
I can certainly understand your anger, but IMO we shouldn't allow ourselves to become the beasts that we are trying to eliminate.
We have to use justice and the rule of law against the terrorists. Overwhelming military force, of course, will be one of the tools we need to use.
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Yeah you're right banana. That makes sense.
lol thrawn you're such a tw at.
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So this guy has participated in the invasions of 4 countries.
Thats an increadable record for a man who lived in times of "peace".
He finally bites the bullet and signs up as a mercenary and gets killed.
And now..its time to get real nasty with those Iraqis cause they dont like being invaded and occupied.
Instead of asking yourself how you would feel if that was done to your brother..
Ask how you would feel if jeeps full of heavily armed foriegn mercenaries were patrolling your streets day in day out.
Remember..you yourself are not allowed to be armed. You dont get to see them at home coaching little leage..you only see them day after day patrolling your home town.
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Originally posted by Pongo
So this guy has participated in the invasions of 4 countries.
Thats an increadable record for a man who lived in times of "peace".
He finally bites the bullet and signs up as a mercenary and gets killed.
And now..its time to get real nasty with those Iraqis cause they dont like being invaded and occupied.
Instead of asking yourself how you would feel if that was done to your brother..
Ask how you would feel if jeeps full of heavily armed foriegn mercenaries were patrolling your streets day in day out.
Remember..you yourself are not allowed to be armed. You dont get to see them at home coaching little leage..you only see them day after day patrolling your home town.
Nice... are you an amature troll or just a complete *******?
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Originally posted by Pongo
So this guy has participated in the invasions of 4 countries.
Thats an increadable record for a man who lived in times of "peace".
He finally bites the bullet and signs up as a mercenary and gets killed.
And now..its time to get real nasty with those Iraqis cause they dont like being invaded and occupied.
Instead of asking yourself how you would feel if that was done to your brother..
Ask how you would feel if jeeps full of heavily armed foriegn mercenaries were patrolling your streets day in day out.
Remember..you yourself are not allowed to be armed. You dont get to see them at home coaching little leage..you only see them day after day patrolling your home town.
Yep and I guess that gives them every right to kill them and hang them.
then dance around like a bunch of primates.
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hblair
It's tough seeing what some people are willing to do in the name of whatever cause has been beat down their throats since they were infants. We don't stoop to actions as such, we are educated, and as civilized as a military force can be. Whatever we are, we aren't bad people, with evil intent.. as much as some around here would like to believe.
There is no lighter side of this story, but at least it's good to know that the religious leaders "over there" condemned the action (not the killing, but the ridiculous treatment of the bodies). This alone is a major victory in the information war..... so sad the cost.
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Originally posted by Pongo
So this guy has participated in the invasions of 4 countries.
Thats an increadable record for a man who lived in times of "peace".
He finally bites the bullet and signs up as a mercenary and gets killed.
And now..its time to get real nasty with those Iraqis cause they dont like being invaded and occupied.
Instead of asking yourself how you would feel if that was done to your brother..
Ask how you would feel if jeeps full of heavily armed foriegn mercenaries were patrolling your streets day in day out.
Remember..you yourself are not allowed to be armed. You dont get to see them at home coaching little leage..you only see them day after day patrolling your home town.
Im sure your heart bleeds for every little Iraqi child who has been effected by this war and is no longer able to play in Saddam's Little League.
Unfortunately, the big bad extremeist Muslims with AK47s are the one causing the problems.
We're going to kill as many of them as we can find, ok?
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My new avatar suggests that i should say nothing. Thread is read tho and i have some feeligs about some of the posts.
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So what you're saying pongo is that saddam hussein should be burned, dismembered and drug through the streets?
..oh wait, he was a native Iraqi, not a big bad invader-occupier man, he doesn't qualify.
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uncivilized savages with no honor
some said they'd do the same to someone who "occupied" their country - to them I say the same:
uncivilized savages with no honor
hopefully they are the minority mindset
my first thought when watching the "press" coverage of the mutilation was Where is the napalm? anyone involved in that regardless of age is a rabid animal who needs to be put down...
sorry for your friends loss hb
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Originally posted by Pongo
So this guy has participated in the invasions of 4 countries.
Thats an increadable record for a man who lived in times of "peace".
He finally bites the bullet and signs up as a mercenary and gets killed.
And now..its time to get real nasty with those Iraqis cause they dont like being invaded and occupied.
Instead of asking yourself how you would feel if that was done to your brother..
Ask how you would feel if jeeps full of heavily armed foriegn mercenaries were patrolling your streets day in day out.
Remember..you yourself are not allowed to be armed. You dont get to see them at home coaching little leage..you only see them day after day patrolling your home town.
you are increadible Pongo, just a twisted piece of work. Yeah the first thing I should think of if my brother was killed should be "hey, my maybe those poor people that murdered and mutilated my brother just didn't want him there..... I'm okay with it now"
And you write him off as a mercinary. Those "mercinarys" are usually private security helping guard food, gas, and supply convoys in order to help rebuild the country.
Get off your high horse. You presume to tell someone what they should be asking themselves when they lose a family member? You are probably one of those people who excuses the WTC because the "US had it coming"
Don't come here with your garbage. Like Skuzzy says, just because you have an opinion doesn't mean you should always say it. You added nothing to this thread other than your typical twisted hate. I swear I'm getting so sick and tired of people like you pretending to be the moral superior to the rest of us.
Would it hurt you so badly to actaully say something good about the man and the service to his country?
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I just recently found out that one of the four murdered in Fallujah that day was a Croatian American like me... It really touched me. Not as close as your link through your friend but we Croatians here in the USA are pretty close, heck I have even been greeted warmly just knocking on a complete strangers door when I saw they had a croatian symbol at their house.. :)
Link to CNN story.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Midwest/04/10/civilian.killed.ap/index.html
My condolances to their familes and an to their sercice..
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Originally posted by hblair
Yeah you're right banana. That makes sense.
lol thrawn you're such a tw at.
Sure, and you claim to be a Christian.
"Until we're more brutal, savage and scarey as these fools "
Didn't Jesus say that in Matthew 5: 43-44?
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Originally posted by Pongo
So this guy has participated in the invasions of 4 countries.
Thats an increadable record for a man who lived in times of "peace".
He finally bites the bullet and signs up as a mercenary and gets killed.
And now..its time to get real nasty with those Iraqis cause they dont like being invaded and occupied.
Instead of asking yourself how you would feel if that was done to your brother..
Ask how you would feel if jeeps full of heavily armed foriegn mercenaries were patrolling your streets day in day out.
Remember..you yourself are not allowed to be armed. You dont get to see them at home coaching little leage..you only see them day after day patrolling your home town.
This post is f^&*ing disgusting. Absolute trash. I wonder how your fellow Canadians felt at Monte Cassino in 44? Pongo, you don't know what freedom is or what it sometimes costs men.
Hblair, if this is anything, just know that somewhere in Michigan, someone gives a chit. I'll say a prayer for him, his family and friends.
I have a buddy who served 4 years in the Marines, hadn't seen him in over four years, he showed up at my doorstep 2 weeks ago. He had just finished 8 months of security work in Bosnia, he is NOW in Iraq, providing security for Contractors. He said he planned on staying for about 18 months, so he could provide about 50 acres for brother and sister to build on, in Kentucky.
Keep up the faith brother. <>
Karaya
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Originally posted by Pongo
Instead of asking yourself how you would feel if that was done to your brother..
Ask how you would feel if jeeps full of heavily armed foriegn mercenaries were patrolling your streets day in day out.
Remember..you yourself are not allowed to be armed. You dont get to see them at home coaching little leage..you only see them day after day patrolling your home town.
I read this, and typed out a full page (Readers Digest condensed version "he's a moron"), then I read all the responses and it appeared that most of what I was going to say was covered.
My sympathy for all that have lost a loved one.
-Lute
III/JG26 9th ST WidowMakers
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Sure, and you claim to be a Christian.
"Until we're more brutal, savage and scarey as these fools "
Didn't Jesus say that in Matthew 5: 43-44?
Yep, I sometimes slip thrawn. But I'm proud to see you fear God enough to correct your brother when you see him stumble. Keep studying bro.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Im sure your heart bleeds for every little Iraqi child who has been effected by this war and is no longer able to play in Saddam's Little League.
Unfortunately, the big bad extremeist Muslims with AK47s are the one causing the problems.
We're going to kill as many of them as we can find, ok?
"we"? - you're heading over to help out? If so take care, they might wish to do the same to you.....
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Originally posted by hblair
Yep, I sometimes slip thrawn. But I'm proud to see you fear God enough to correct your brother when you see him stumble.
I know you fear God, and it's important to you, so I thought I would point out an apparent contradiction.
Keep studying bro.
You wouldn't believe the amount of bible I have been reading do to discussions with Christians on various BBSes. ;)
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How's that going for you?
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the thing that that hurts me most about this thread is the loss of a human life and pongo's total disregard for that life.
Pongo doesn't have to agree with the war in Iraq, but his comments make me really disgusted.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Pongo doesn't have to agree with the war in Iraq, but his comments make me really disgusted.
I wouldnt assume he is representative of any group other than those so far left of center that they've lost all touch with reality after falling off the edge.
We should be thankful that he has willingly identified himself as such - less staying up late at night wondering for us.
**** 'em.
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Hblair's post was moving... but it was friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend...
I don't think hblair is all busted up over this.
Mostly, it serves to bring the whole thing closer to home.
In that spirit, Pongo's post does much the same thing.
Imagine that foreign mercenary or some other patrolling YOUR street.
That's all he's saying.
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Originally posted by Nash
Hblair's post was moving... but it was friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend...
I don't think hblair is all busted up over this.
Mostly, it serves to bring the whole thing closer to home.
In that spirit, Pongo's post does much the same thing.
Imagine that foreign mercenary or some other patrolling YOUR street.
That's all he's saying.
Nash, what Pongo did was show his disrespect for a life.
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Originally posted by Nash
Imagine that foreign mercenary or some other patrolling YOUR street.
That's all he's saying.
Perhaps, but in his own demented mind, he's forgetting about the reality of the situation while focusing on the poor Iraqi children.
When a US President finds himself in violation of multiple UN resolutions following an invasion of Mexico, Ill welcome foreign soldiers who come to get rid of him... I wont string them up on a bridge.
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The only point Pongo made was his disrespect for a human life.
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Yeah, perhaps he should have began his post by saying "I regret the loss of life,...."
Would that have changed anything?
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Originally posted by Nash
Yeah, perhaps he should have began his post by saying "I regret the loss of life,...."
Would that have changed anything?
Nash what he said was basically that the person's life was nothing to cry about. I question his humanity.
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I get where yer coming from... and can see how it'd be read like that. And it is sad what happened.
But what I personally came away from Pongo's post was thinking about the situation in reverse.
I don't know about you Americans, but, if the Iraqis allofahsudden showed up here, kicked out our government and started driving up and down our streets making sure we were indoors by 10:00, by God, each and every one of us would strap on our skates and beat them mercilessly with our hockey sticks.
Cruel and unusual? Maybe, but that's our style, man.
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Originally posted by Nash
I get where yer coming from... and can see how it'd be read like that. And it is sad what happened.
But what I personally came away from Pongo's post was thinking about the situation in reverse.
I don't know about you Americans, but, if the Iraqis allofahsudden showed up here, kicked out our government and started driving up and down our streets making sure we were indoors by 10:00, by God, each and every one of us would strap on our skates and beat them mercilessly with our hockey sticks.
Cruel and unusual? Maybe, but that's our style, man.
None of that was the point of the original post..... just the life lost, not any politics.
I would, however, argue the points you made in a different thread.
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Well, I think you're wrong. From hblair's original post:
Being killed in action is one thing, but being treated like this is something else. The photos in newsweek could very possibly be of this man. Until we're more brutal, savage and scarey as these fools I dont see us winning against fundamental extremists. Maybe I'm wrong.
I welcome you to argue my points in a different thread. Lord knows, I don't have much of a life. :)
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Originally posted by Nash
Well, I think you're wrong. From hblair's original post:
Being killed in action is one thing, but being treated like this is something else. The photos in newsweek could very possibly be of this man. Until we're more brutal, savage and scarey as these fools I dont see us winning against fundamental extremists. Maybe I'm wrong.
I welcome you to argue my points in a different thread. Lord knows, I don't have much of a life. :)
Pongo's basic responce was that he did not give a rat's arse about this guy's death. Tell me I am wrong.
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You're both right and wrong.
Right in that he didn't show any sympathy about this guy's death.
Wrong in that it was "his basic response".
(From time to time we'll be given a link to an mpg showing a horrible motorcycle accident. Most people don't respond by saying "I hope he's okay!". That's obvious - a given. Instead, the replies will be "that's what driving so fast gets ya."... or... "I wouldn't trust my life to those POS bikes".... or.... generally responding to the REASONS for what took place.). Pongo's post was the same.
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Originally posted by Nash
You're both right and wrong.
Right in that he didn't show any sympathy about this guy's death.
Wrong in that it was "his basic response".
(From time to time we'll be given a link to an mpg showing a horrible motorcycle accident. Most people don't respond by saying "I hope he's okay!". That's obvious - a given. Instead, the replies will be "that's what driving so fast gets ya."... or... "I wouldn't trust my life to those POS bikes".... or.... generally responding to the REASONS for what took place.). Pongo's post was the same.
he did not give a damn about a human death...we both agree then.
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No, he just didn't write anything about it.
Does that matter?
Perhaps he should whip himself up a sig saying "I feel your pain" so his arse is covered". :)
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Originally posted by Nash
No, he just didn't write anything about it.
Does that matter?
Perhaps he should whip himself up a sig saying "I feel your pain" so his arse is covered". :)
yes it matters, because if he didn't write anything about it, how could he otherwise communicate that to anyone here?
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that particular angle... grief over the loss... wasn't something he wanted to communicate. Otherwise he might have said something along the lines of "I feel grief over this loss". Instead he wanted to talk about another aspect of it.
uhmm..
Are you saying he's a monster?
I know you haven't said that directly, but your LACK of saying it is definitely telling.
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Originally posted by Nash
that particular angle... grief over the loss... wasn't something he wanted to communicate. Otherwise he might have said something along the lines of "I feel grief over this loss". Instead he wanted to talk about another aspect of it.
uhmm..
Are you saying he's a monster?
I know you haven't said that directly, but your LACK of saying it is definitely telling.
Here is what I am saying... Pongo does not give a rats arse that this guy died.
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1) You can't know this by Pongo's post.
2) So what?
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
shoot the basterds and bury em with pork.
Huh?
I might be ignorant at times, but c'mon!
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Originally posted by Nash
1) You can't know this by Pongo's post.
2) So what?
Here is what I do know about Pongo's post: he shows no sympathy for a human life lost.
In fact he attempts to justifiy it.
Where is the Pongo himself? He afraid to respond?
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Originally posted by Pongo
So this guy has participated in the invasions of 4 countries.
Thats an increadable record for a man who lived in times of "peace".
He finally bites the bullet and signs up as a mercenary and gets killed.
And now..its time to get real nasty with those Iraqis cause they dont like being invaded and occupied.
Instead of asking yourself how you would feel if that was done to your brother..
Ask how you would feel if jeeps full of heavily armed foriegn mercenaries were patrolling your streets day in day out.
Remember..you yourself are not allowed to be armed. You dont get to see them at home coaching little leage..you only see them day after day patrolling your home town.
you're an bellybutton hole
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He's probably asleep.
I read his post yet another time.
Do it yourself.
Read a sentence, stop, and ask yourself "Was that in error? wrong? a fallacy?".
Then move on to the next.
Then come back and tell us what exactly you took issue with.
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Originally posted by Nash
He's probably asleep.
I read his post yet another time.
Do it yourself.
Read a sentence, stop, and ask yourself "Was that in error? wrong? a fallacy?".
Then move on to the next.
Then come back and tell us what exactly you took issue with.
he's probably posting in his sleep.
I eagerly await his "awake" response. He is a heartless person IMO.
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If you can't mount a logical attack on him while he sleeps, my money definitely aint on you once he awakes. :)
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Originally posted by Nash
He's probably asleep.
I read his post yet another time.
Do it yourself.
Read a sentence, stop, and ask yourself "Was that in error? wrong? a fallacy?".
Then move on to the next.
Then come back and tell us what exactly you took issue with.
There are many facets to this war, and none of them simple or one-sided, but the fact is, these 'mercenaries' are hardly oppressors. What, exactly, are they keeping the Iraqi people from doing? Are they conducting summary executions? Are they beating the children and raping the women?
These are not fascist invaders. These are people with a difficult job, in a difficult situation, that are most definitely not there for the pleasure. They've helped unseat a dictator, whether it was our business or not to do so, and now, are faced with the task of leaving the place in some sort of order. Sure, they're armed. Sure, they're patrolling. They will not become millionaires doing their job.
They knew the risks and suffered the consequences. I do not contest that. What was done to their bodies, as demonstrations of sheer disrespect, is shameful. The people that laughed and smiled at this treatment have sadly, either by nature or through prolonged oppression, lost their humanity.
For that bellybutton hole, and I will not mention his name, to even begin to justify this treatment, is a big 'f you' tothe memory of the men who were there to do a hard, dangerous job, however unpopular in your mind.
Keep your whoopee smilies. I hope he sleeps poorly.
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I've a friend that's a retired SeaBee and he spoke of possibly going to Iraq to work because the pay is so good.
There's a reason pay is good... there's a chance he could die.
When a soldier dies in Iraq, I tend to see that as just a bit more tragic than when a contractor gets nabbed.
As near as I can tell... some of the people in Iraq are happy that the U.S. is there. Others are not. Some consider the U.S. to be liberators. Others consider the U.S. to be oppressors.
Maybe their perception is wrong. Maybe they shouldn't see the U.S. as an unwelcome, invading force. That's the issue the the U.S. needs to correct. The method of resistance is irrelevant. In fact, I expect that our people would be every bit as brutal if we thought our country was invaded. I sure as hell would be.
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You have it all wrong Sand.
Some Iraqi patrolling downtown Fort Worth gets yanked from his tank.... yeah, they gonna kill him, but they gonna do it by lethal injection while reading passages from Kahil Gibrahn and sprinkling rose buds on his corpse.
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In pongos defense, pongo is a good guy, I've known him, flown online with him for prolly four years. We disagree politically but I consider us good friends. i don't hold anything personal against him.
Thrawn, if you are agnostic or whatever, why would you bother with studying the bible? Sounds like it would be a waste of time. If I didn't believe the bible, I sure wouldn't spend time studying it just to "show christians". Why not just enjoy life knowing you're right?
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Originally posted by hblair
In pongos defense, pongo is a good guy, I've known him, flown online with him for prolly four years. We disagree politically but I consider us good friends. i don't hold anything personal against him.
I agree too. Pongo is a cool guy.
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There are alot of cool guys that I've drank with, ate with, but we don't agree politically. banana, Pongo just to mention a couple...10bears is one of my favorite online guys as well as a great squaddie, but we're not on the same level politically. We leave the politics in the OT room. I don't discuss politics online.
Politics at our level is usually "from the heart" and we tend to be very passionate in our beliefs however its best not to judge someone simply by politics alone, you'd be seriously misjudging that person.(And I've done that myself, admittingly)
A good example is my father-in-law. He's very much to the right of a Conservative, but he's a good man, and willing to help anyone that was needing help, and willing to go out of his way to help, gives alot back to the community in volunteer work...but MAN his far right wing outlook is enough to drive ya bonkers.
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Originally posted by hblair
Until we're more brutal, savage and scarey as these fools I dont see us winning against fundamental extremists. Maybe I'm wrong.
Frist off sorry to hear about this :(
This is one of the main reasons I was aginst this war from the start....
We don't have the will to occupy, I'm glad we don't.
It takes a very brutal rule to control a population... the Nazi's did it well....
Sun Tzu knew it 2000+ years ago .... he also knew protracted conflicts are bad. The longer we are there the wrose it will get.
War is a nasty nasty thing ... this was a fools errand from the start IMHO.
lets do a collective 'cartman'
"screw you guys, I'm going home"
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Originally posted by hblair
Thrawn, if you are agnostic or whatever, why would you bother with studying the bible? Sounds like it would be a waste of time. If I didn't believe the bible, I sure wouldn't spend time studying it just to "show christians". Why not just enjoy life knowing you're right?
The Bible is a very important document to many of the people I discourse with and the basis of their systems of morality. In order to understand them better and were they are coming from I better at least have a passing knowledge of that book.
My biggest beef with people isn't whether or not they are right or left, religious or not, it's whether or not they are hypocritical and to what degree (and I'm certainly guilty of being a hypocrit from time to time). If a persons ideals and arguments are well thought out, reasonable and consistant, then I'm sure we will find common ground somewhere or at least be able to agree to disagree.