Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Grits on April 10, 2004, 01:09:31 PM
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(Doing my best Hawk impression)
Stats for the first day this week:
The Spitfire Mk IX has 50 kills and has been killed 35 times against the N1K2.
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Hey ... where's the Tiffie stats?! Get to it, mister! :D
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lol, didnt think you guys cared, so I stoped.
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The Typhoon IB has 25 kills and has been killed 12 times against the N1K2.
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Which is interesting to me since this is statisticly uneven seems much more even than Kurland last week which was statisticly even and seemed like a rout of the LW.
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But like you said ... it's still early yet. In a low population arena like the CT ... even one player's stats can have a strong effect on the overall stats the first day. I'm 6/1 in the Tiffie vs the N1K right now (6/4 in the Spit - got stupid a couple of times). That could change for the better or worse over the next week depending on:
1: My opponent's skill
2: My own skill/SA
3: Random factors (discos/technical/just plain sillyness)
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I'm 44 and 0 in a ship gun... what the stats for a ship gun vs everything? :D
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Heh, I saw that when you landed those 44, just about fell off my chair! :D
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I'm 33 and 0 in a field gun vs. LVTs and PTs. :D
(Oh cod ... and I went and said it in public) :eek:
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As of 6:45 PM Central:
The Spitfire Mk IX has 91 kills and has been killed 66 times against the N1K2.
The Typhoon IB has 47 kills and has been killed 19 times against the N1K2.
As I said before, this set is statisticly far more lopsided than the stats of Kurland, yet this set I dont for a second feel like the Allies have vastly superior equipment. Why is that?
In this set I wont hesitate to engage 2-3 Spits/Tiffies alone as I think I still at least have a fighting chance. In Kurland I wouldnt engage unless it was at least 2 v 1 in my favor and even that did not guarantee survival.
How can a set be statisticly even, yet seem like an unwinable fight, and a lopsided one against you seem like you might even have the upper hand? I would be interested to know what others think.
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Bushido?
;)
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Originally posted by Grits
Which is interesting to me since this is statisticly uneven seems much more even than Kurland last week which was statisticly even and seemed like a rout of the LW.
Turning seems to make it even.
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I think the N1K matchup with the silly spitty is a good one and like grits I had no problem this past weekend jumping into a 2 on 1 or even a 3 on 1.
I'd like to see some plane sets created only for the CT.
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That is what we are trying to do VWE. I have been offline all weekend with no cable at the house so today and tonight will be the tweaks based on things that have been posted in the Staff board.
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Personally I don't put a lot of faith in stats like these since they don't tell the whole story. The few times I logged in to the CT this past weekend I saw a 2:1 allied #'s gap. Personally I consider the N1k and Spit IX to be fairly close in terms of performance (this is a hunch I haven't checked speed/climb charts). However even a good N1k pilot is going to have his hands very full against 2 spits unless there is a very large quality and/or experience gap in the pilots.
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The Niki is making a comeback against the Spit anyway:
The N1K2 has 236 kills and has been killed 211 times against the Spitfire Mk IX.
The Typhoon IB has 100 kills and has been killed 63 times against the N1K2.
The FM2 has 24 kills and has been killed 19 times against the N1K2.
The Spitfire Mk IX has 48 kills and has been killed 41 times against the Ki-61.
The Typhoon IB has 19 kills and has been killed 16 times against the Ki-61.
The FM2 has 5 kills and has been killed 4 times against the Ki-61.
The Spitfire Mk IX has 12 kills and has been killed 8 times against the A6M2.
The Typhoon IB has 6 kills and has been killed 0 times against the A6M2.
The FM2 has 1 kill and has been killed 1 time against the A6M2.
The Spitfire Mk IX has 61 kills and has been killed 43 times against the A6M5b.
The Typhoon IB has 15 kills and has been killed 8 times against the A6M5b.
The FM2 has 10 kills and has been killed 3 times against the A6M5b.
I dont believe stats tell the story either Soulyss, thats why I'm posting these. This week except for the Niki/Spit matchup every allied plane has the edge stats wise, yet actual gameplay does not tell me that. Last week, the stats were nearly even, with the G-10 even a bit up on the VVS yet the whole week the only kills I got were ganging up on the Yaks/Lalas and I dont usually gang. Last week I did it as a rule.
The Bf 109G-10 has 99 kills and has been killed 81 times against the La-7.
The Bf 109G-10 has 87 kills and has been killed 79 times against the La-5FN.
The Bf 109G-10 has 154 kills and has been killed 134 times against the Yak-9U.
The Bf 109G-6 has 61 kills and has been killed 83 times against the La-7.
The Bf 109G-6 has 56 kills and has been killed 53 times against the La-5FN.
The Bf 109G-6 has 111 kills and has been killed 124 times against the Yak-9U.
The Fw 190A-5 has 51 kills and has been killed 49 times against the La-7.
The Fw 190A-5 has 26 kills and has been killed 35 times against the La-5FN.
The Fw 190A-5 has 53 kills and has been killed 64 times against the Yak-9U.
Even though the G-10 was up on the Ruskies stats wise, I sure didnt feel like I had any advantage while flying it. In the G-6 and A-5 you pretty much knew you were going to die to the first Yak/Lala you ran into unless you had a lot of buddies. One thing I do know without a doubt that I dont need stats to show me, I hate VVS sets with a passion.
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As statistics had shown - 109g10 outperforms La7 and Yak-9U.
In my flight experience in 109, La7 and Yak - 109G10 is best.
The same show statistics.........
IMHO La7 and Yak-9U matchs up 109G10 and 190s so........
Late War VVS vs LW is Great Setup :aok
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Originally posted by Grits
The Niki is making a comeback against the Spit anyway:
The N1K2 has 236 kills and has been killed 211 times against the Spitfire Mk IX.
The Typhoon IB has 100 kills and has been killed 63 times against the N1K2.
The FM2 has 24 kills and has been killed 19 times against the N1K2.
The Spitfire Mk IX has 48 kills and has been killed 41 times against the Ki-61.
The Typhoon IB has 19 kills and has been killed 16 times against the Ki-61.
The FM2 has 5 kills and has been killed 4 times against the Ki-61.
The Spitfire Mk IX has 12 kills and has been killed 8 times against the A6M2.
The Typhoon IB has 6 kills and has been killed 0 times against the A6M2.
The FM2 has 1 kill and has been killed 1 time against the A6M2.
The Spitfire Mk IX has 61 kills and has been killed 43 times against the A6M5b.
The Typhoon IB has 15 kills and has been killed 8 times against the A6M5b.
The FM2 has 10 kills and has been killed 3 times against the A6M5b.
I dont believe stats tell the story either Soulyss, thats why I'm posting these. This week except for the Niki/Spit matchup every allied plane has the edge stats wise, yet actual gameplay does not tell me that. Last week, the stats were nearly even, with the G-10 even a bit up on the VVS yet the whole week the only kills I got were ganging up on the Yaks/Lalas and I dont usually gang. Last week I did it as a rule.
The Bf 109G-10 has 99 kills and has been killed 81 times against the La-7.
The Bf 109G-10 has 87 kills and has been killed 79 times against the La-5FN.
The Bf 109G-10 has 154 kills and has been killed 134 times against the Yak-9U.
The Bf 109G-6 has 61 kills and has been killed 83 times against the La-7.
The Bf 109G-6 has 56 kills and has been killed 53 times against the La-5FN.
The Bf 109G-6 has 111 kills and has been killed 124 times against the Yak-9U.
The Fw 190A-5 has 51 kills and has been killed 49 times against the La-7.
The Fw 190A-5 has 26 kills and has been killed 35 times against the La-5FN.
The Fw 190A-5 has 53 kills and has been killed 64 times against the Yak-9U.
Even though the G-10 was up on the Ruskies stats wise, I sure didnt feel like I had any advantage while flying it. In the G-6 and A-5 you pretty much knew you were going to die to the first Yak/Lala you ran into unless you had a lot of buddies. One thing I do know without a doubt that I dont need stats to show me, I hate VVS sets with a passion.
You need to learn how to fly german planes. Low speed handling on the yak and the la las is terrible, High speed handling in the 109s is terrible. The 109s can accellerate well enough to make low speed energy fight your best option other then Bore and ZZZZZ'ng or cherry picking. The A5 will out roll either the yak or la7 the trick is getting them to commit at high speed then timing the overshoot to get a decent shot.
In a gang bang situation it doesnt matter you will die. In actuality the g10 should be limited in this setup with the primary LW plane being the the A-8. Yes JG54 killed Yaks of all types and lalas. In fact JG54 had 9000 odd kills to like 600 odd losses over the war.
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Aslo fly the 190s as light as possible. There is no benefit to taking the mgff outboard cannon on the a5. 2 cannon are enough, same with the A8.
Dump the mg ammo on the a5 and burn your aft fule tank first. On the A8 75 fuel is enough burn off the aft tank then go back to auto and burn to aux / forward. You only need about half the 13mm mg so dump it.
Once you get light and you C of G forward the 190s handle very well.
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Thanks Batz, I do everything you said already except for dumping the MG ammo, I will try that next time. BTW, I also agree that getting them to commit and overshoot is the best thing to do in the A-5, but I dont consider that a good situation when your best move is a last-ditch defensive one.
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I run aft tank down to 25% before switching to Forward Auto. That way I know its time to think RTB when the tank switches back to aft.
And G10 is a better scenario/CT fighter than La7. La7 is better in MA.
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Man I'm gonna have to get some of you LW fans to show me some tricks, I'm pretty much helpless in any LW plane it seems. :)
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no tricks involved that aren't used across the spectrum.
it's just a matter of:
learn to use the throttle and anticipate - the 109's don't like to stay slow, so you have to really work at it if you want to stay in flaps range (just like the la5/7 and yaks). they don't like to get too fast either (unlike the vvs stuff).
practice makes perfect, and provides allied dweebs with some freebies until you get it right.
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Originally posted by Shane
learn to use the throttle and anticipate - the 109's don't like to stay slow, so you have to really work at it if you want to stay in flaps range (just like the la5/7 and yaks). they don't like to get too fast either (unlike the vvs stuff).
Hmmm, so you have to keep it slow? I am guessing this is more for the La7, and staying in flaps speed gives you a smaller turn radius? The thing I cant figure out is, I have no troubles at all with RAF or USAAF planes in any of the LW stuff, for some reason its only the VVS planes that have got me stumped.
practice makes perfect, and provides allied dweebs with some freebies until you get it right. [/B]
Tell me about it. I gave out an prettythangload of freebies last week, but if thats what it takes to learn how to beat them thats fine by me.
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the reason the vvs planes are giving you fits is that they accelerate right there with the 109's and can climb with them, until you hit 12-17k. also the vvs stuff doesn't hit that "fight the extra elevator" input quite as hard as the 109's do.
i have spiraled with a 109 whil ein an la5 from 14k to 23k... i couldn't gain, but wasn't losing much, and ended up with the kill anyway when he finally tried to roll over on me, missed and allowed me to roll over on him.
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Yeah I think if I were more aggresive on the throttle that might help. I do change power settings in a fight but I also know I can get kinda lazy too. I fought Nath last night in the MA and it looked like that 190 swapped ends it happened so fast. I kinda doubt I could have won anyway but I'm back in newbieville while I get these rudder pedals sorted, might be a good time to pick up some LW iron while I'm here and really suck for awhile. :)
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Thats usually the key though Soulyss. Figuring out the power that you want and being able to change it quickly and efficiently in the middle of a fight helps out quite a bit. For me its as much a part of the tactics I use as knowing the capabilities of the aircraft in my area and in the end I usually end up treating them all like Wldthing, Octavius, Nath or Shane and running like hell screaming and cursing the entire time for someone to shoot them down for me. :D
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Yeah some nights I'm more on than others, more mentally alert I guess (relatively speaking of course). Then there are nights like last night. :) Where I had to sit there and tell myself "ok nose needs to go left..... move left leg......no the OTHER left leg... ok ok ok... hello? you can ease up a bit, no quite holding left rudder I need to go RIGHT.... " so and and so forth, I felt like Dr. Strangelove's pediatric, inept cousin. :)
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I'm with you Soulyss, I could do nothing vs. lags in the 109's or 190's unless I cherrypicked them.
Had some great 1v1 fights against 109's flown by Oldman and 1 vs. Jester. Now, I'm not very good, ask Shane or anyone else, and I killed much more than I died in those encounters. Based on that, I would have to say the 9U and the Lag 7 are superior to G10 and D9 unless you're a great sim pilot like Shane or you can fly a 109 like Eagler.
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Yup, thats my assesment too Naj, unless your Shane or Eagler (I'm nowhere near either of them) you are in deep doodoo in a 109/190 against the Yak9U/La7. Im gonna keep trying though, because I figure if I can consistantly win against the Yak9U/La7 combo in LW planes, I can beat just about anything. Its a steep and frustrating process though.
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For me flying a 190 variant or a Corsair isn't much different. Both aircraft have good to outstanding roll characteristics and allow you to work for the overshoot from a defensive position. In a La series or Yak against the Corsairs and 190s I have found they do fairly well in the same areas.
However when I fly in a La series or Yak I find it much easier to fight and live in a good sized fight. The one time I got to fly in Kurland I had a pretty good setup going by staying defensive and letting Najdorf and Cmorum bag some kills of 190s and 109s chasing my tail. At one point it was a 5 vs 1 at <200 feet over the water with me being the 1 in a Yak (20mm cannon only) and I got two or three kills before having to crash land it when the engine died from a radiator hit.
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Niki has made a huge comeback against the SpitIX. Everything else is pretty even.
The Spitfire Mk IX has 582 kills and has been killed 768 times against the N1K2.
The Spitfire Mk IX has 152 kills and has been killed 133 times against the Ki-61.
The Spitfire Mk IX has 210 kills and has been killed 187 times against the A6M5b.
The Typhoon IB has 190 kills and has been killed 170 times against the N1K2.
The Typhoon IB has 47 kills and has been killed 44 times against the Ki-61.
The Typhoon IB has 40 kills and has been killed 23 times against the A6M5b.
So I guess the reason I didn't feel the RAF had an advantage in aircraft is because they didn't. :)
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Niki vs spit 9 is basically an even fight. The niki turns better once it gets its flaps out, the Spit 9 rolls better, climbs a little better, and has crisper handling. Nikis got better firepower in a snapshot, spits got better firepower for killing a runner.
The Ki-61 is vastly inferior to the Spit 9, the A6M is a better turner but that is it. Usually CT pilots are more prone toward timidity, so you won't get many that will try to fight a A6M in anything... they'll bore n zoom while they wait for reinforcements.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Usually CT pilots are more prone toward timidity, so you won't get many that will try to fight a A6M in anything... they'll bore n zoom while they wait for reinforcements.
Thats a pretty broad brush your painting with Urch. I know lots of guys who do what you describe, but I know just as many in the CT (me included) who wade right into just about any odds fights. The night before last when the furball light was on between A4-A5 nobody on either side ran, and we had huge (for the CT) multi-layer fights all night. Last night after the landgrab weenies took A4 in the daytime, fights were much less fun.
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Clearly the RAF a/c are the better ones...but that doesnt mean the CT #s are going to come out that way, they rarely do.
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I agree that the better aircraft does not always have the better numbers, and is the original reason I started this thread. I do not agree that the RAF planes (at least not the Spit) are clearly better than the Niki. The Tiffie, in this week at least, is the uber-plane of the set and you should never be kilt in one if you even halfway fly it with some common sense (you'll noctice however that *I* have been kilt twice in it:D).
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Originally posted by Grits
Thats a pretty broad brush your painting with Urch. I know lots of guys who do what you describe, but I know just as many in the CT (me included) who wade right into just about any odds fights. The night before last when the furball light was on between A4-A5 nobody on either side ran, and we had huge (for the CT) multi-layer fights all night. Last night after the landgrab weenies took A4 in the daytime, fights were much less fun.
I can only call it like I see it. Usually in the Ct I end up flying over and around an enemy base with 2-5 guys cowering in the ack refusing to do anything. I don't even know why they bother to up. The more "agressive" ones will try to bait you into diving into their ack with a split-S after a brief spray and pray pass... the normal ones don't even do that.
People don't want to fight in the CT. Of course, most people don't want to fight in the MA either. I think, to borrow a term, that most folks in the CT are at the stage of "concious incompetence".. meaning they know they suck and have no desire to keep dying (even though that is how one improves), whereas the average MA newbie is at the stage of "unconcious incompetence".. meaning he completely sucks, but he is still willing to mix it up until he realizes just how completely he sucks. Then he comes to the CT.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Niki vs spit 9 is basically an even fight. The niki turns better once it gets its flaps out, the Spit 9 rolls better, climbs a little better, and has crisper handling. Nikis got better firepower in a snapshot, spits got better firepower for killing a runner.
The Ki-61 is vastly inferior to the Spit 9, the A6M is a better turner but that is it.
I agree with all of this (note I deleted the part about CT pilots being wusses. I HAVE been to the MA once or twice and observed the runners there).
I have been truly surprised at how close the spit 9 and nik are. I think I'd rather be in the spit, but they're about the two most evenly matched planes I've seen anywhere.
I was also surprised by how much fun this setup has been, battle of the dweeb planes that it is. Still, I have the odd sense that we're playing the game with a big plastic bat and a whiffle ball.
- oldman
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lol
WTFG Urchin, Vulch kills on the forum...
Grits dont take off... :)
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Originally posted by Batz
Grits dont take off... :)
Im not afraid of a fight Batz, in here or in the CT. :) I dont totally disagree with Urch, I just think as a daily participant in the CT I have a better sense of it as a whole than he does.
As I said, I know lots of folks in the CT that only engage when they have the advantage in some form, both in the tactical sense, and the larger sense of what side has the best planes. Since I always fly for whichever side has less up (which means 90% of the time I'm flying axis), its possible by that alone I end up fighting more than those that only fly allied or axis, I dont know. I can say without any doubt that MOST[/i] of the time I have no trouble finding someone to engage.
The night before last when Urch was up, it was really bad, no doubt about that. The closest bases were 1.5+ sectors apart and eveyone was flying, well, timid. I think this is a byproduct of the climb to alt, folks dont want to blow that investment, while when the bases are very close like tonight (A4-A5 again) folks get 3-5k and head straight for the fight. YMMV of course.
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Of course the other side of this arguement is that a lot of folks that fly the CT are looking for a little more emmersion than your regular MA junkie. Part of flying as if this were real is not engaging in a manner that is suicidal. If I'm flying a spit 9 and I see 3 nikis coming who are above me, I'm probably going to look for some help.
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Originally posted by najdorf
If I'm flying a spit 9 and I see 3 nikis coming who are above me, I'm probably going to look for some help.
Heh heh. If you're flying a spit 9 and you saw three niks above you, you probably weren't flying in the CT this week.
Or maybe you were. Seems to me there were a number of times I eased down into what was suddenly a cloud of spits, with Typhoons zooming in and out of the mess.
I think Urchin is just pulling chains here. One of the main reasons you can't have much fun with a slow plane in the MA is that you can't catch any of the people who are running away from you.
And as for you ackrunners: we know who you are, and we make faces at you.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Or maybe you were. Seems to me there were a number of times I eased down into what was suddenly a cloud of spits, with Typhoons zooming in and out of the mess.
Grits:OTW oldman, Im 3.5k out
Oldman:cc
(get into con range and see Oldman doing the Tango with 8 spits and a sprinkling of Tiffies)
Grits: holy CRAP! where did all these Spits come from?!?
Grits:this is gonna be ugly...
SYSTEM:You have been killed
SYSTEM: You have been shot down by TheBug
Grits:doh! that was dumb
I think Urchin is just pulling chains here.
He is, which is OK.
And as for you ackrunners: we know who you are, and we make faces at you.
And oooohhh, if you could only see the faces Oldman makes...its...its...oohhh I cant look.