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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: bullett308 on April 10, 2004, 07:31:43 PM
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US, Fallujah rebels agree 12-hour ceasefire, US kidnap victim threatened
2 hours, 16 minutes ago
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BAGHDAD (AFP) - The US-led coalition and insurgents in the Sunni bastion of Fallujah agreed to a 12-hour ceasefire beginning Sunday at 0600 GMT after six days of fierce clashes which claimed the lives of hundreds of people, an Iraqi mediator said.
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Slideshow: Iraq
Latest headlines:
· Iraq Insurgents Show U.S. Hostage in Video
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· US, Fallujah insurgents agree to Sunday 12-hour ceasefire
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Special Coverage
However, the insurgents threatened to kill a presumed American citizen unless the siege of the Sunni Muslim town was lifted in the latest example of their new tactic of kidnapping foreigners to win concessions on the ground and put pressure on US allies in Iraq (news - web sites).
"The two sides have agreed to observe a 12-hour ceasefire tomorrow Sunday at 10:00 am," or 0600 GMT, a senior member of the Iraqi Islamic Party, Hatem al-Husseini, told AFP.
"This will pave the way for the gradual pullout of US Marine troops from Fallujah," Husseini said after a meeting with coalition officials in Baghdad on his return from the mediation talks in the town west of the capital.
The apparent breakthrough came after the coalition suspended offensive operations in Fallujah and offered the talks.
A 35-member Iraqi delegation, led by members of the US-installed interim Governing Council, entered Fallujah and held meetings to mediate an end to the bloodshed.
However, a group calling itself "the mujahedeen of Iraq to US forces" still threatened to kill a presumed US national identified as Thomas Hamill if the siege was not lifted.
Hamill was apparently the same man shown in an Australian television report shortly after being captured after an attack on a convoy.
"If this is not heeded within 12 hours starting at 6:00 pm (1500 GMT) on Saturday, April 10, 2004, he will be treated worse than those who were killed and burned in Fallujah," the group said in an audiotaped message read on Al-Jazeera satellite TV.
The group was referring to four US contractors were ambushed in Fallujah last week and the charred bodies of two of them were mutilated and strung from a bridge. The outrage provoked the US offensive in Fallujah.
In a related development, Al-Jazeera also reported the abductors of three Japanese nationals in Iraq had decided to free their hostages within 24 hours in response to an appeal from Muslim clerics.
The captors from the "Mujahedeen Brigades" had threatened to burn the three alive if Japanese troops were not pulled out of Iraq by 1200 GMT Sunday -- 72 hours after footage was broadcast showing the three in captivity.
The statement urged the Japanese to put pressure on their government to withdraw its troops from Iraq. The coalition has taken a no-deal stand with the kidnappers.
The Fallujah breakthrough came as much of the country leaders denounced the Fallujah offensive and large parts of Baghdad closed down in a protest strike. Heavy exchanges of fire also broke out in the city's main Sunni neighborhood.
It also came as the coalition offered a draft ceasefire agreement to Moqtada Sadr, the outlawed radical Shiite cleric whose militia has battled occupation forces across central and southern Iraq, an intermediary said.
US officials earlier said they had suspended the Fallujah offensive as of noon (0800 GMT) to allow for talks on the delivery of relief supplies and the care of the dead and wounded.
Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, the deputy director of operations, said the coalition was looking for a full ceasefire in the town where more than 400 Iraqis have been killed and 1,000 wounded since fighting erupted Sunday.
"If the ceasefire holds, talks regarding the establishment of legitimate Iraqi authority will begin," he told a Baghdad news conference, adding that the US army retained the "right of self-defence."
But military ground commanders said they did not expect any truce to last.
Lieutenant Colonel Brennan Byrne, the commander of the First Battalion- Fifth Marines in Fallujah, warned it was unrealistic to expect battle-hardened insurgents to surrender.
"The fact they've been wearing belt bombs, the virulent nature with which they've been fighting, the chances of the Iraqi Governing Council and city fathers getting Joe Jihadi to surrender are pretty slim," Byrne said.
He added that marines had detained 60 insurgents, including five foreigners from Sudan, Egypt and Syria, in the area.
Battles raged in Fallujah throughout the day despite the efforts to broker a peace and a marine was killed and another wounded, a marine statement said.
The marines also said they killed between 10 and 12 insurgents after a convoy of US light-armored vehicles was ambushed by up to 30 guerrillas further west near the Syrian border.
As late as Saturday night, insurgents were lobbing mortars rounds at US positions and large explosions rocked the city while warplanes flew overhead.
The marine forces were being bolstered by a third US marine battalion and a fourth consisting of members of the paramilitary Iraqi Civil Defense Corps.
The US offensive has also alarmed the coalition's Iraqi partners who fear it could push back the June 30 deadline for the restoration of self-rule.
The US-installed Governing Council issued a statement denouncing the onslaught as amounting to "collective punishment of innocent civilians" as well as insurgents.
This Is bullchit they are just stalling and this crap of taking hostages Is crap as well.
Cease fire my arse they should go in and Kill every single dammed one of them.
They are just laughing at us now.
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removing myself abit from (http://www.spymac.com/gallery/pics/smilies/arrow_left.gif)
the taking of hostages business are working against them...the war in iraq and all wars against "terror" is a war that is about the "winning of hearts and minds"..
when they take hostages and threatening to do stuff to them they are loosing ground and support (even from alot of their own) so the strategy they are useing is actually working against them in the long run...hope they dont gain anything in the short...
placing myself under the (http://www.spymac.com/gallery/pics/smilies/arrow_left.gif) again
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Looks like they may be releasing the Japanese hostages, which is a good move for them (and for the hostages obvioulsy).
Somebody with half a brain probably pointed out that it is hard to be seen as freedom fighters when you are threatening to burn civilians alive.
Basically I agree that negotiations at this (with either the Sunnis or the Shi'a) point are a mistake: all it does it make us look weak at this point: the CPA needs to gain the upper hand in Falluja and the other towns before it can afford to look generous and humanitarian.
Ultimately both the Sunnis and Shi'as involved in the uprising realize they cannot achieve military victory: they are counting on us (the Coalition ) to be too weak morally and politically to press our military advantage. They may well be right.
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"they cannot achieve military victory:
Wouldn't be so sure about that one. City fighting evens the numbers quite alot. Especially if it's your city. Really it's about numbers and KIA ratio threshold.
If the soilders of the US and it's allies killed in action plus the number of civilian deaths they incur in retaliatory attacks (remember there to liberate iraqi's not kill them) in Iraq and at home versus the total number of insurgents they kill.
Without factoring in the number of wounded,maimed and disabled. I'd say there is a maximum threshold of KIA before the American voting public in this election year will withdrawl support for the war. If not already.
If the KIA threshold isn't reached by the time of the next US election the possibly Bush will get through for another term factoring in that everything else is doing ok, jobs economy etc.
However if the threshold is exceeded by election day it's highly unlikely Bush will get through for another term.
Problem for the US is that this threshold is in the favour of the Iraqi resistence since they don't have any time limits or thresholds on K/D ratios since to them they are the good guys defending their country against occupiers. If the mark is passed by Nov 2 it won't be a matter of will US withdrawl but a matter of when,what time frame.
Giving the Iraqi resistence a military victory.
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by Gixer
"they cannot achieve military victory:
Wouldn't be so sure about that one. City fighting evens the numbers quite alot. Especially if it's your city. Really it's about numbers and KIA ratio threshold.
If the soilders of the US and it's allies killed in action plus the number of civilian deaths they incur in retaliatory attacks (remember there to liberate iraqi's not kill them) in Iraq and at home versus the total number of insurgents they kill.
Without factoring in the number of wounded,maimed and disabled. I'd say there is a maximum threshold of KIA before the American voting public in this election year will withdrawl support for the war. If not already.
If the KIA threshold isn't reached by the time of the next US election the possibly Bush will get through for another term factoring in that everything else is doing ok, jobs economy etc.
However if the threshold is exceeded by election day it's highly unlikely Bush will get through for another term.
Problem for the US is that this threshold is in the favour of the Iraqi resistence since they don't have any time limits or thresholds on K/D ratios since to them they are the good guys defending their country against occupiers. If the mark is passed by Nov 2 it won't be a matter of will US withdrawl but a matter of when,what time frame.
Giving the Iraqi resistence a military victory.
...-Gixer
LOL at some point public opinion is not going to mean chit!
And they will do what they should have done and that Is flatten the whole city.
That I think would send a message to these idiots.
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Originally posted by bullett308
LOL at some point public opinion is not going to mean chit!
And they will do what they should have done and that Is flatten the whole city.
That I think would send a message to these idiots.
Ah you mean like the Vietnam logic of "We had to destroy the village to save it"
Yes excellent idea, might as well just nuke the whole country while your at it.
...-Gixer
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The world already hates the US. Bring in the B52s and make it official.
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Originally posted by Yeager
The world already hates the US. Bring in the B52s and make it official.
B-52? Oh boy
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Originally posted by Gixer
Ah you mean like the Vietnam logic of "We had to destroy the village to save it"
Yes excellent idea, might as well just nuke the whole country while your at it.
...-Gixer
Naw lets just let the thugs keep on kid napping people to get there way !
They have to be shown the hard way Im afraid cause it would seem they are either really srupid or hard headed or both.
But we aint playing that watermelon no more with the hostages.
I think there starting to get the idea that maybe they screwed the pooch burning those four men and hanging them from the bridge.
They are paying the price for there savage acts.
And I say bout time WTFG MARINES
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Originally posted by bullett308
Naw lets just let the thugs keep on kid napping people to get there way !
They have to be shown the hard way Im afraid cause it would seem they are either really srupid or hard headed or both.
But we aint playing that watermelon no more with the hostages.
I think there starting to get the idea that maybe they screwed the pooch burning those four men and hanging them from the bridge.
They are paying the price for there savage acts.
And I say bout time WTFG MARINES
I agree the hostages is a bad move but destroying the city isn't a option. Unfortunetly for the military using excessive force isn't a option at all since strategiclly it has the adverse effect of what your trying to achieve. Which is, gain the respect of the general population that you being there is a good thing. Install a new governemnt and get out before it all turns to custard.
...-Gixer
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I belive we have the respect of the honest Iraqi.
This arseclowns are just a bouch of jerks fighting for power as they know the hand over is coming june 30th.
The legitimet government will be one voted for by the Iraqi people in january.
The one in june is just an interum government till then.
But the real point is Iraq Is a much better place for the most part than when SH was running the circus.
You got the sunni's and the shiit's(misspelled) fighting eachother for controll in the fring cities THATS what we are trying to stop.
And they don't like it much LOL.
So they take hostages and murder none military personel not real smart on there part.
If we dont get these clowns either dead or under controll before we hand over the country then all we have done up to now will be for crap:confused:
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Personally i think they need to round up all the reporters, civilians etc, and get them outta there, or under US guard so they cant be kidnapped as easy, this kidnapping crap is BS. imagine if ur one of them hostages, ah thats gotta be hell.
Anyways, i think they needa just go through Fallujah and capture or kill every last one of them "insurgents." The few iraqis that are doing this, arent gonna stop, they are gonna have to be killed or captured, i think thats pretty clear.
i think the marines are doing it the way it should be done, hard steady fighting. wtfg marines!
sorry if some of this doesnt make sence or there are mispelled words, but im tired and bout ready to go to bed, been a loooong day heh:)
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Yeah the Marines where kickin arse and takin names then they did this silly cease fire crap and threw off there momentum.
Polotictions need to STFU and let the commanders in the field do there jobs.
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Hard to take seriously someone who spells like a 10 year old with learning problems.
Another for the ignore pile.
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Originally posted by bullett308
LOL at some point public opinion is not going to mean chit!
And they will do what they should have done and that Is flatten the whole city.
That I think would send a message to these idiots.
Because that logic worked in Chechnya didn't it?
Tronsky
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Originally posted by bullett308
honest Iraqi.
LOL that's like a loyal ARVN.
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"Iraq will not turn into another Vietnam" -George W. Bush
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by rpm371
"Iraq will not turn into another Vietnam" -George W. Bush
:rolleyes:
And it aint even close. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by -tronski-
Because that logic worked in Chechnya didn't it?
Tronsky
LOL who cared about that place?
I mean europe sat on there arse about it for years and let it fester into the problem it became and the then they expect the good old USA to come in and fix it over night.
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Schadenfreude <--- fell from the steps of the short bus while trying to escape the band of midgets that just got done having there way with his pasty little limey buttocks
:aok
There how was my spelling on that Mr wizzard?
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Originally posted by bullett308
LOL who cared about that place?
I mean europe sat on there arse about it for years and let it fester into the problem it became and the then they expect the good old USA to come in and fix it over night.
I believe you are thinking about Yugoslavia and even then I would have to
disagree with your assessment.
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Originally posted by Pei
I believe you are thinking about Yugoslavia and even then I would have to
disagree with your assessment.
As Is your right to do so.
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Originally posted by bullett308
LOL who cared about that place?
I mean europe sat on there arse about it for years and let it fester into the problem it became and the then they expect the good old USA to come in and fix it over night.
Yes...I believe that if it wasn't for american involvement in Chechnya, the situation would be much worse... :p :lol :rofl
Tronsky
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is bullet who i think he is, or am i getting paranoid? :eek:
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Originally posted by Nilsen
is bullet who i think he is, or am i getting paranoid? :eek:
Yup.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
is bullet who i think he is, or am i getting paranoid? :eek:
hmmm sounds like the alter ego of a big bad sniper back from a hot weekend in Wales with an amateur hooker off the internet to me.
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pheuu...:D
im starting to see him everywere now...when im shopping, biking, driving etc etc..
whenever i see a wierd looking fella i think its MrBlack.
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heard they are letting women, children and old men out of the fighting while turning back fighting age men ...
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ok so in a town of 200,000 people say half are men, 100,000 people, then say half of those are "fighting age" whatever the hell that means anyway - say 16 - 50 or half of the 100,000.
That's 50,000 people - what are you going to do - put them in jail, kill them all?........Hell even maybe get Sadam back to gas them - that'll show them bastards won't it?
I think I need to go and find the "Morons, we've got MORONS on our team" wav. again.
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Originally posted by bullett308
Schadenfreude <--- fell from the steps of the short bus while trying to escape the band of midgets that just got done having there way with his pasty little limey buttocks
:aok
There how was my spelling on that Mr wizzard?
It was fine. Bye.
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That would be Wizard with a capital W and only one z...but not bad considering you have about 11 alter ego's inside your head telling you what to do at any one time...
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
That would be Wizard with a capital W and only one z...but not bad considering you have about 11 alter ego's inside your head telling you what to do at any one time...
If you stoop to his level you may find yourself following him.
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Please would you email me and explain where exactly I have broken the rules governing the use of this BBS?
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Hard to take seriously someone who spells like a 10 year old with learning problems.
Another for the ignore pile.
How about insulting someone for a start?
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Can't send you an email. You have it disabled in your profile and I do not feel like driving up to the office to take care of this.
I did not say you broke the rules, but the above post I quoted was a personal attack.
1) It had nothing to do with the topic of the thread.
2) It did make a derogatory reference to another individual.
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Originally posted by Dingbat
How about insulting someone for a start?
If insulting people were grounds for banning the place would be deserted.
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It's hard to ban people like sniper for being idiots when so many play the equal idiot in return. Sniper will be back with a new IP addy... would you?
MiniD
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
If insulting people were grounds for banning the place would be deserted.
A bit of an exaggeration. Regardless, it will not be tolerated. It adds nothing to a discussion, and, in fact, ruins a discussion.
If people asked themselves one question before pressing the submit button, this probably would never be an issue.
How does my reply contribute to this thread?
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Lol, well, I guess the title of the post fits.
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Lol, well, I guess the title of the post fits.
Was thinking the same thing... only mistake here was this post by mrblack (bullet308).
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
A bit of an exaggeration. Regardless, it will not be tolerated. It adds nothing to a discussion, and, in fact, ruins a discussion.
If people asked themselves one question before pressing the submit button, this probably would never be an issue.
How does my reply contribute to this thread?
Amen
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_Schadenfreude_ , are you gonna take that? Show him who's Boss of this BBS! Yep, the Title was prophetic. :rofl :rofl :rofl