Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Voss on August 20, 2001, 04:13:00 AM
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I've noticed an awful lot of suicidal F4U's online recently. It seems once the base capture idea takes a grip all we see is wave after wave of suicidal pilots diving in to hit (often) just a single target. So, I took me up an F4U (non-c) and attacked the rook fleet. Three out of four times I got through to sink the cruiser with just a single hog. Too, I found you could de-ack a field with as few as two hogs. Now, this seems a tad too easy for me.
HTC could you revisit this and think things over again? I know the idea is to have fun, but what about the defenders? It should take just a tad more effort, IMHO. Things are so easy now that field captures are a milkrun! Well, okay. A milkrun in the absence of defenders, but even so... suicide? Is this what we've come to?
Too, I would like to see more control added to the fleet. It's very, very hard to guide the fleet in combat. It's very, very hard to guide the fleet from the tower (near coast lines)! Once the CV gets sunk, the fleet should carry forth, too. I think the enemy should have to sink the cruiser too, and it would be nice to have a bigger fleet as well.
Just my two cents.
Unlike the dark side, I see wisdom in the maps that we have. I like the fleets in the islands and mindanao maps, and gv's in the giant lake map. I'm still undecided about the baltic, but I'm working on it! :)
Hmm, how best to adapt all of the above?...
:cool:
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Originally posted by Voss:
Too, I found you could de-ack a field with as few as two hogs. Now, this seems a tad too easy for me.
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You can de-ack a field with a single hog easily, see my Training films, first one...conservative approach too. Blitz can de-ack a field in a P51D in two passes. As far as ease, I'll let the rest of you pan that out.
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Nah they just make it "look" easy. :cool:
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I can easily deack a large field and take out the VH and radar with the right fighter aircraft.
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Actually, I took out all acks, ammo, fuel, radar and shot down 3 upping A/C at a small field with a N1K, but...then again, it IS the Uber-N1K. :)
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Welp, they could remove acks in fields,replace them with 4X 37mm MANNABLE ACKS *no AI* and about 20X .303 AI acks (this is for a small field) that have a 4k range.
It will take time to strafe all these and .303 will not be singlepingkill ack as we have now (which would help cure the running to ack syndrome) and it is sure to be lethal to any plane coming within d4.0 of the field due to the concentration of fire..lethal if they stay inside the ack umbrella for a second or two that is, a fighter would be able to zoom by at hi speed taking hits, maybe losing a flap or so, but not losing the entire airframe to some ungodly golden BB.
The mannable 37mm is there to make things tougher IF the field is defended by manned acks.
[ 08-20-2001: Message edited by: Tac ]
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I can get shot down by the ack...does that count?
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I actually agree that suicide jabos and such have too much effect on the game. I don't think a field should be made useless by one bomber or several fighters and I don't think one plane should be able to make a carrier fleet useless.
Perhaps the carrier fleets need to have more.... carriers. Maybe fighters need to be available at fields until everything is down and maybe a shorter rebuild time for ack.
lazs
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You're never going to see an end to this phenomenon in the MA. If you want something different, you need to try the various "one-life" scenarios that are hosted in other arenas regularly. :)
Buhdman, out
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can deack two acks then dead !!!
must be me that is a not cheating bastard. !!!!
or a lame online sim dickhead :)
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Refer to my post last week, about adding more defenses to the bases. In short, I had suggested that bases have such novel things as a fenceline and anti-tank barricades around them. The best 'mental image' I can give you guys is to recall the footage from D-Day and other invasions. As we are now, once the acks are down, there is nothing to stop the M3's/LVT's from rolling in. It would be cool if there were things even like minefields to make it a wee bit harder for the GVs/M3s to sweep in, and require the help of ordinance-carrying aircraft to blow a hole in the defenses for the GVs to make it in.
Of course the C-47 can fly over all of this, but in the case of CV action, the C47 will have to fly further and thus, more open to enemy aircraft. Heck, at least the M3/LVTs have guns :)
Again, just ideas to make the base-grabbing a little more challenging, and interesting.
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Give me a D-hog, 2k bombs, 8 rox, 10K altitude, and one other aircraft to run interference and you have a field de-ack’d. Practice has made it easier. It wasn’t always that way.
I don’t do suicide runs. I try and make all my dives with the escape in the right direction. Will I dive through multiple cons to a field? Sure, on one pass on a small field I can get all but one of the fuel tanks and then hot tail it out. I only get burned when I’ve misjudged the direction and energy state of the higher defenders.
People wanna make suicide runs, let ‘em.
Take out the high caliber AI AA and replace it with a larger number of smaller AI AA, don’t know about that. The rate of fire on the smaller weapon would mean a larger number of projectiles. With the increase in the number and rate of fire for the AA it would be like flying through a cheese grader. I don’t think you would just loose a flap here and there. Though it is an interesting suggestion.
Zippatuh
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Your first paragraph, Zip, obviously you've trained too much with VMF-323. ;)
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The new ack model is retarded and dies far too easily.
This trend started in 1.05 with the islands map. Before that ack model I have never been able to deack a whole field, but in the first day of 105 five minutes after the download SUPERFLY and I went to A40. He attacked the VH and I took out all the ack in 3 passes. I have never been able to do this before ever.
With this new 107 easy kill ack model it has gotten even easier. I have been able to deack large bases in 3 or 4 passes sever times. All you do is fly straight at it at moderate hi speeds kill 2-4 acks as possible then extend straight out and repeat.
A singlge fighter MUST NOT be able to deack a whole field, this is simply ridiculous.
The new ack also has some stupid accuracy ideas. For example I have sen nikis and spits do something like 4 or 5 full turns inside field boundaries with all the ack up and firing at them without taking hits og getting killed. While high speed attackers who attempt turns are shot easily.
Another issue are low level bombers. B17/lancs/26 can come in alone and low within ack range and come out with only a fuel leak or engine oil smoke. One would think with all those 40mm and 20mm ack they would score a few fatal hits but they dont.
The total effect of this? Well its that every field attack turns into an instavulch 30 seconds after it begins as all thack is killed by a single plane.
Your experience may vary.
HTC please take some time in 108 development to rethink this ack model, at least return it to the less retarded 105 model though many people I have asked in the MA think the best balanced ack model was the pre 105 pre CV style as used on the old MA map and the beta maps.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
The new ack model is retarded and dies far too easily.
Not completely true, Grun. If the mannable positions are not manned, hell, they're not firing at you. The reason fields seem to be easy to deack is that frequently, 3 of the ack positions (unmanned) aren't firing!
While it is true that one skillful pilot can deack a field, even if the 3 positions are manned, most guys can't do it.
AKcurly
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Actually, I took out all acks, ammo, fuel, radar and shot down 3 upping A/C at a small field with a N1K, but...then again, it IS the Uber-N1K. :)
yup...
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Give us 5" style mannable guns at fields. The slow traverse wouldn't help it much when the base is under heavy(close) attack. The 5" could also be used as artillery against invading GV's. Replace the graphic of the turret with something more like an 88 (Flak 18?). 2klbs to destroy a CV is ridiculous... make it 12klbs.
SKurj
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Your first paragraph, Zip, obviously you've trained too much with VMF-323. ;)
Once or twice :D
Zippatuh
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Blitz can de-ack a field in a P51D in two passes.
Rip, you have said this a few times, like whoever Blitz is (I can't recall ever seeing him in the MA) can do this wonder AAA clearing all the time.
If it can be done so easily, please supply at least 3 films of said action taking place on 3 seperate occasions in the MA.
Anyone can get lucky and do it once in a while, but consistantly is the trick.
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I remember Blitz from a few months ago, check the scoreboards he's a good stick.
Haven't seen him lately
Of course I've only just returned
SKurj
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I'm with midnight on this one. If you get below 4k in a 51 in the game you are going to get radiator hit or major damage in a 51.
I can kill 3 maybe 4 AA but never more.
RWY
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Watched a single suicide Hog sink a carrier last night. He was the only plane around and the whole fleet was shooting at him. Yet he was able to get in and sink the carrier with 2K of bombs. Seems like it should be harder.
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It was my second trip, and I was using rockets, too! :D
RWY, even with the rad hit you can still fly! I have lost wings, sure, but I have also lived to de-ack the entire field with a single pony.
I filmed Paint do it last night with a Spit! You don't have to hit the gun, especially with cannons. All you have to hit is the sand colored area around the gun and it's dead. That really sucks as a field gunner, I can tell you! Many of these guys (and I've tried this a lot over the past few days) will take a hit, but that first round is close enough to kill the gun, so the field gunner gets NO kill, and even though the de-ackee is dead the field gun is too. And all that when the field gun itself was not even hit!
:cool:
[ 08-21-2001: Message edited by: Voss ]
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
You can de-ack a field with a single hog easily, see my Training films, first one...conservative approach too. Blitz can de-ack a field in a P51D in two passes. As far as ease, I'll let the rest of you pan that out.
Rip,
What ever happened to that film you made of our close formation flight? I was hoping to watch that someday :) Want to make another? ;)
Udie
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I'll ask him to film it, hes in Germany, different time online than you and I, he's on vacation right now, I'll ask him to film it when he returns.
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Probably gone, Udie, I had a HD meltdown, so lost all my films :(
BTW, if you guys use rockets for AA attack, salvo 2, that way if your slightly off in your projectory, you chances of killing it are better from my experiences...nothing worse than missing a AA emplacement with a single rocket, that sucker will shoot ya dead when ya turn away.