Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GRUNHERZ on April 14, 2004, 04:00:57 AM
-
I just saw that Kerrys plan for Iraq would involve:
More US troops.
NATO troops in Iraq under USA military command.
UN member nation troops.
This would all just mean german, french etc troops in Iraq in supoort of this immoral war...
Isnt that what yiu guys are opppsed to?
-
What you didn't seem to realise when posting this particular troll is that DESPITE all the things you listed the Europeans still support Kerry - which shows just how incompetent your current administration was in alienating those governments it is now crawling to for support in Iraq.
ahh irony is wonderful.
-
ill give you a:
(http://cachesrc.corbis.com/agent/12/38/31/12383180.jpg)
nice try, but you lacked that little extra to get a 6 :)
-
Just because the question makes you uncomfortable doesnt mean it's intended to be a troll. Answer the question, so far the best you can say is that you irrationaly hate bush...
-
Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
What you didn't seem to realise when posting this particular troll is that DESPITE all the things you listed the Europeans still support Kerry - which shows just how incompetent your current administration was in alienating those governments it is now crawling to for support in Iraq.
ahh irony is wonderful.
But what you dont realize is that if you euros would then support kerry in his plan it means that euro governments have been blatantly dishonest in their supposedly principaled opposition to the war... Remember what a big fuss the frenchies here made about the principle of standing up to the big bad imperialist militant agressive USA...
-
nothing about this question makes me uncomfortable but i question your motives ;)
Kerry is a better choise for president for many reason, the most important beeing that he realises that cooperation between nations is the key to a more stable world order....not forcing your will and ways on others.
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
nothing about this question makes me uncomfortable but i question your motives ;)
Kerry is a better choise for president for many reason, the most important beeing that he realises that cooperation between nations is the key to a more stable world order....not forcing your will and ways on others.
Cooperation? Bush went to the UN repeatedly asking for help... His calls were rejected on grounds that war is immoral or something and people not want to help... Same thing affter the invasion too I think...
Where do you see cooperation in Kerrys plan?
Are German trioops explicitly under US commend a sign of cooperation?
Why would germans do that, being so ethically opposed to thhis war?
As for my motives? They are obvious, I'm curious about this contracdiction...
-
If you ask for someones help or cooperation but dont really care what the answer is because you have decided to go ahead anyway you are not cooperating at all.
Kerry has stated that one of his imortant goals is to bring the US and europe together again and to strenghten the relationship to the UN. Wether he does or does not we will not find out until he is elected.
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
If you ask for someones help or cooperation but dont really care what the answer is because you have decided to go ahead anyway you are not cooperating at all.
Kerry has stated that one of his imortant goals is to bring the US and europe together again and to strenghten the relationship to the UN. Wether he does or does not we will not find out until he is elected.
But cooperation is mutual. The Frenach and other euros wouldnt budge on Iraq.
-
because they can't stand anyone with principles & guts - especially Christian ones
Kerry could easily be any Euro leader, UN included - he is wishy washy & limp wristed enough to fit right in
LANDSLIDE BUSH!
-
Well.. I know you are aware that there is no county called "euros" and that there are many individual countries within europe with different opinions on the matter.
The French are free to have their own opinion on the matter of Iraq and so does the US. The French did not think going into Iraq was the correct thing to do, so they didnt do it either.
-
Maybe countries that has been invaded know that war is something one should avoid Eagler....not glorify like you do ;)
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
Well.. I know you are aware that there is no county called "euros" and that there are many individual countries within europe with different opinions on the matter.
The French are free to have their own opinion on the matter of Iraq and so does the US. The French did not think going into Iraq was the correct thing to do, so they didnt do it either.
So when kerry goes to the french and asks them for help and they say NON, and then kerry says OK well do it without you, then kerry is not cooperationg by your standard?
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
Maybe countries that has been invaded know that war is something one should avoid Eagler....not glorify like you do ;)
BS Alert.
Thats the most idiotic hypocritical euro staement ever. The oh we poor france or poor europe suffered 2 bad wars in 25 years so we know how awul and terrible war is and we dont like it.....
Did the french for example forget that when they were responsible for terrible wars to vietnam and algeria shortly after their ww2 experience? Did they forget that when they and the brits helped invade egypt in 1956?
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
Maybe countries that has been invaded know that war is something one should avoid Eagler....not glorify like you do ;)
glorify? only war i glorify is the airwar over europe 39 - 44
sorry the ****e hit the fan - j glad we now have a Leader with balls to take it to the nutbags
-
Originally posted by Eagler
because they can't stand anyone with principles & guts - especially Christian ones
The same principles that came up with crusades?
Main Entry: 1cru·sade
Pronunciation: krü-'sAd
Function: noun
Etymology: blend of Middle French croisade & Spanish cruzada; both ultimately from Latin cruc-, crux cross
1 capitalized : any of the military expeditions undertaken by Christian powers in the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries to win the Holy Land from the Muslims
Ahhh, the good ol' days, when the pope would lead the charge!
-
Yes....if Kerry does the same thing that Bush has done the same thing will apply to him.
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
Yes....if Kerry does the same thing that Bush has done the same thing will apply to him.
So the USA must get France's approval to do anything in Iraq or to act in what American govt feels it's in the countrys best intrests?
Should france get American ammproval to run its military?
-
Originally posted by Sixpence
The same principles that came up with crusades?
Main Entry: 1cru·sade
Pronunciation: krü-'sAd
Function: noun
Etymology: blend of Middle French croisade & Spanish cruzada; both ultimately from Latin cruc-, crux cross
1 capitalized : any of the military expeditions undertaken by Christian powers in the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries to win the Holy Land from the Muslims
Ahhh, the good ol' days, when the pope would lead the charge!
more similar to this "Crusade"
"Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen of the Allied Expeditionary Force!
You are about to embark upon the Great Crusade, toward which we have
striven these many months. The eyes of liberty loving people everywhere
march with you. In company with our brave Allies and brothers in arms on
other Fronts, you will bring about the destruction of the German war
machine, the elimination of Nazi tyranny over the oppressed peoples of
Europe, and security for ourselves in a free world.
Your task will not be an easy one. Your enemy is well trained, well
equipped and battle hardened. He will fight savagely.
But this is the year 1944! Much has happened since the Nazi triumphs of
1940-41. The United Nations have inflicted upon the Germans great defeats,
in open battle, man to man. Our air offensive has seriously reduced their
strength in the air and their capacity to wage war on the ground. Our Home
Fronts have given us an overwhelming superiority in weapons and munitions
of war, and placed at our disposal great reserves of trained fighting men.
The tide has turned! The free men of the world are marching together to
Victory!
I have full confidence in your courage and devotion to duty and skill in
battle. We will accept nothing less than full Victory! Good luck! And let
us beseech the blessing of Almighty God upon this great and noble
undertaking."
General Dwight D. Eisenhower
Order of the Day
June 6, 1944
-
Originally posted by Eagler
more similar to this "Crusade"
"Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen of the Allied Expeditionary Force!
You are about to embark upon the Great Crusade, toward which we have
striven these many months. The eyes of liberty loving people everywhere
march with you. In company with our brave Allies and brothers in arms on
other Fronts, you will bring about the destruction of the German war
machine, the elimination of Nazi tyranny over the oppressed peoples of
Europe, and security for ourselves in a free world.
Your task will not be an easy one. Your enemy is well trained, well
equipped and battle hardened. He will fight savagely.
But this is the year 1944! Much has happened since the Nazi triumphs of
1940-41. The United Nations have inflicted upon the Germans great defeats,
in open battle, man to man. Our air offensive has seriously reduced their
strength in the air and their capacity to wage war on the ground. Our Home
Fronts have given us an overwhelming superiority in weapons and munitions
of war, and placed at our disposal great reserves of trained fighting men.
The tide has turned! The free men of the world are marching together to
Victory!
I have full confidence in your courage and devotion to duty and skill in
battle. We will accept nothing less than full Victory! Good luck! And let
us beseech the blessing of Almighty God upon this great and noble
undertaking."
General Dwight D. Eisenhower
Order of the Day
June 6, 1944
No eagler, youre wrong....
I wish the German freedom fighters had won.
Now dont get me wrong, I fully supported driving the german army out of France and the other western European counytries. But when the Germans went home that should have been it. So really the invasion of germany was an unprovoked illegal attack by imperialst racist zionist usa troops. It was a shameful war for beer, to protect the intrests of giant american beer brewing corporations which donated generously to FDR and got him to repeal prohibition.. NO WAR FOR BEER!!! I really wish those german fredom fighters had won.. From the Rhine to Berlin to Fallujah to Berkely we are all freedom fighters...
:rolleyes:
BTW do the freedom fighters support Kerry? :)
-
Dont be silly Grun... USA does not NEED the aproval of France, Germany or Norway for that matter to go to war. Iran does not need aproval from the US or Belgium to go to war on Greece either.
But if you want to go to war and expect help or support from any of the countries you mentioned then yes.
Pretty obvious to me, Do you think that Norway should support USA just because we are both members of NATO or something?...does that make any sence at all? no it does not.
-
Kerry is silly... Bush is worse... almost like last elections, where the fight was between a dolt and a monkey.
-
"This would all just mean german, french etc troops in Iraq in supoort of this immoral war... Isnt that what yiu guys are opppsed to?"
I'd be all for that under Bush. It's called an exit strategy and it begins a tactful withdrawal.
-
The real issue seems to be that Euros have been relegated to irrelevancy by Mr. Bush's administrative policy and his convictions. *Gasp* Lord knows that europe could in no way be irrelevent. Thank you Lord for President Bush. God Bless America, God Bless England. may these blessing overflow and pour forth upon our poor, misguided, socially experimenting weak little "allies"
-
Well said Storch. You just explained to everyone why the hatred towards the US grows.
-
Thank you Nilsen *bows low while never taking his eyes off of the european foe hand firmly gripping his katana*
-
Cut my throat and my blood will stain your pretty dress :D
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
You just explained to everyone why the hatred towards the US grows.
...in your mind.
You forgot to add that. Unless you claim to speak for all Europeans or something silly like that.
-
Bush is a moron. That single fact is enough to warrant cheering a Kerry victory, well that and the sight of his moronic cheerleaders crying into their beer.
-
I believe that the euros hate any president that is percieved to be strong such as Bush. They fear any government that is not socialist. The euros allways get all wet over very liberal U.S. presidents and presidential candidates... they feel, and rightly so, that they can badger weak, socialist presidents.
lazs
-
"Bush is a moron" claims the erudite Mr. (Ms. ?) Momus. Clearly gentlepeople, we have committed a greivous error. I move that on the basis of this euro's expert analysis we start a petition to lobby the congress to impeach and remove Mr. Bush from office immediately.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
I believe that the euros hate any president that is percieved to be strong such as Bush. They fear any government that is not socialist. The euros allways get all wet over very liberal U.S. presidents and presidential candidates... they feel, and rightly so, that they can badger weak, socialist presidents.
lazs
Bush isn't felt as 'strong'. He is felt as 'dumb and dangerous'... The kind of feeling you get when a retarded kid is toying with a loaded gun 10 yds away from you...
-
How is europe threatened by Bush? Being ignored? hardly dangerous. We have checks and balaces here... might as well say that the American people are dangerous. No... Bush let out the dirty secret on just how unimportant some of the little socialist enclaves are and how impotent their socialist governments are.
kerry is percieved to be weak and therefore socialist friendly.
lazs
-
I don't get this use of socialism giving you have no knowledge of socialism nor experience with it.
-
we have socialist aspects to our government... they are the worst parts.
euros and american women and socialists like kerry.
lazs
-
Bush is viewed as dumb? well then we must replace him with someone intelligent... like Chirac!!! or safe like Aznar!!! that's it, before this election we should allow our clearly superior euro "allies" to help us select our national leader.:rofl
-
Storch I don't know who between Bush and Chirac is more intelligent.
The only certitude I have is that you've againt posted a very clever post I need to bookmark.
so much wisdom in so few lines I'm inpressed.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
I believe that the euros hate any president that is percieved to be strong such as Bush. They fear any government that is not socialist. The euros allways get all wet over very liberal U.S. presidents and presidential candidates... they feel, and rightly so, that they can badger weak, socialist presidents.
The strong Bush went to play his war games in Iraq, while alot of people outside US were against the war.
Bush continued to talk about the threats of WMD which Saddam has and literally called french "silly".
Seemingly alot of americans agreed with Bush, renamed french fries to freedom fries, talked about all the WMD hazards and insulted frenchies & europeans.
Then US invaded Iraq, overthrew Saddam's goverment and finally caught him too.
Meanwhile the objective suddenly had changed to liberation of Iraq and people were left wondering "WMD what?"
Recently alot of these pro-war people has began to object the war and many even wants the troops pulled out of Iraq.
HELLO, didn't these people know IT IS A WAR and those are not any products you can return to the store if you come to second thoughts!
Bush is yet to find his WMD and Iraq is more unstable than it's been for a while ;)
and in a single month theres been more US casualties than even during the major operations, while Bush is planning to give control of Iraq back to iraqis... supposedly for the democratic regime.
-
Hortlind..
"...in your mind.
You forgot to add that. Unless you claim to speak for all Europeans or something silly like that."
yes, in the same way that you proclaim to speak for the europeans with this statement:
Yeah, because to have a Pro US/Pro Israel-opinion these days sure is to go with the flow in Europe.
-
so fishu.... How is anyone, including euros, any worse off by the U.S. invasion of iraq? I will of course make the exception of the sadman and his family and a few "freedom fighter" organizations that got a cut in donations.
lazs
-
Well lazs....having these kinds of discussions in the "real world" has made the world a more dangerous place for everyone.
After 9/11 the world was unified in the hunt for the real terrorism....the Iraq invasion has taken the focus away from Afghanistan and the hunt for Osama and the focus is now on Iraq.
-
In response to the original question ... I think that they hope Kerry will institute big social spending programs, raise taxes to the European levels and see the US take a major nose dive into socialism ... thereby raising their status vs the current US world power status. ;) :D
Of course no one really knows what Kerry will do if elected he changes his mind more often than he changes his socks. :D
-
Originally posted by MrBill
Of course no one really knows what Kerry will do if elected he changes his mind more often than he changes his socks. :D
Yes I know. I might just vote for Kerry in November. I'd say the odds are pretty decent that he'll become a conservative republican if he wins...
-
Well lazs....having these kinds of discussions in the "real world" has made the world a more dangerous place for everyone.
After 9/11 the world was unified in the hunt for the real terrorism....the Iraq invasion has taken the focus away from Afghanistan and the hunt for Osama and the focus is now on Iraq.
The basic response I have seen from some Eurpeans is that they would have had no problem with invading Iraq if only the US got a persmission slip from the UN......which makes little sense to me. The actual war part seems to be no problem to them.
I question that reasoning if that is the case.
-
Well Nuke.....if the UN had been behind this then the world would seem unified wouldnt it? Now the "bad" people see that we are divided and that is one of the objects of terrorism....to divide and spread fear.
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
Well Nuke.....if the UN had been behind this then the world would seem unified wouldnt it? Now the "bad" people see that we are divided and that is one of the objects of terrorism....to divide and spread fear.
which is why France and Germany should have not divided us by not backing the use of force to make sure UN resolutions were complied with. France and Germany basically decided to let the UN and the resolutions they voted for mean nothing. That's unacceptable.
The US finally decided to act in our own interest. After 911, we are not going trust Hanx Blix to assure us we are safe from ever having terrorists end up with WMD which Iraq never accounted for.
-
Bush (he's still just a puppet) is not only dumb because of his idiotic solo attempt (yes, yes i know there where many many "friends" like Great Britain and Spain and a few others) on Iraq. He's dumb cause in mostly all foreign affairs he plays the "strong" US president and satisfies therewith such patriotic morons like and pisses of many other countries. For example take the Kyoto protocol.
Still u have to know that the animosity is not about the USA it is (should be) about the regime. People that mix this are as blind as the conservative pom pom wavers. At least about 50% of the US citicens where against Bush.
Think about it, politics can be right winged and nonetheless intelligent and has nothing to do with the misinterpreted term "conservative" that leads to false and extreme egocentric patriotism.
-
france and germany lost big money when we threw sadam into a hole in the ground
that is why they did not want to invade in the first place, the same reason they looked the other way and held their noses for years doing biz with him - GREED
-
There were never andy solid evidence that Iraq was a threat to US security, just speculation. As far as i can see Hans Blix was spot on, and he now has more credibility than ever.
Wether France or Germany was correct in their choise of action or non-action if you will is not up to anyone else to decide except them and nobody can decide for them....much like noone can decide what action the US takes except the US.
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
There were never andy solid evidence that Iraq was a threat to US security, just speculation. As far as i can see Hans Blix was spot on, and he now has more credibility than ever.
Wether France or Germany was correct in their choise of action or non-action if you will is not up to anyone else to decide except them and nobody can decide for them....much like noone can decide what action the US takes except the US.
But you said the US divided the UN, when it was France and Germany dividing the UN. France and Germany agreed that Iraq was not in compliance. The UN said Iraq was not in compliance and passed a "last chance" for them to do so. France and Germany broke their own agreements on the resolutions they signed.
Hanx Blix may have been correct, but that doesnt change anything. At the time, 'Ol Hanx was being denied access and being d**ked around still by Saddam. With Saddam there, nothing was going to convince me that Hanx Blix could assure me that Saddam was complying.
-
Originally posted by Eagler
france and germany lost big money when we threw sadam into a hole in the ground
unprooven.
that is why they did not want to invade in the first place, the same reason they looked the other way and held their noses for years doing biz with him - GREED [/B]
Nothing wrong doing biz with Saddam ,were is the problem ?
A moral problem ?
oops ... I forgot the US never backed a dictator nor helped any.
-
If you believe the below comment, you must be living in a hole as well. Its common knowledge that France and Germany lost money when Iraq fell.
I could care less for the argument, but don't re-write history with your opinion.
Originally posted by straffo
unprooven.
-
Well that can be debated back and forth for ages Nuke and prolly will be too but hasn't that been done enough over the last year on this board? Grunhertz started this with a question and he got the reply and response i would think he was expecting/bating for.
We can discuss these matters forever and not a single person on this board is likley to change his mind based on anything that is beeing said here however much or little sence it makes. I'm now gonna spend the next few hours in the yard taking orders from my gf so youall have a nice day and enjoy the spring while im spending mine cleaning somehing that im sure is clean enough as is :D
bye bye for now.
-
the euros are upset for nothing... they feel that they have no vote in the most powerful country in world but that is not true...
over half the U.S. population is women and most of them vote euro socialist.
lazs
-
Originally posted by Delirium
If you believe the below comment, you must be living in a hole as well. Its common knowledge that France and Germany lost money when Iraq fell.
I could care less for the argument, but don't re-write history with your opinion.
So common knowledge that you have nothing to back your post.
Give me fun just make yetanother neo-con post saying that France was ready to loose billion with one customer (the US) to save the million made with Iraq.
This argument was and is so stupid that I guess lot of Washington falcon still use their fingers to count ... like my 4 year old daughter.
-
So Straffo...what happened to the oil-drilling rights that France had in Iraq?
-
I think they still have ... or if you prefer some off shore enterprise still own them :) but I'm not sure.
I don't negate that, I just pretend that the US are far more strategic for France economy than a ****ty middle east country named Iraq.
-
So, minus the personal attack, you admit I'm correct.
Thank you.
Originally posted by straffo
I think they still have ... or if you prefer some off shore enterprise still own them :) but I'm not sure.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
so fishu.... How is anyone, including euros, any worse off by the U.S. invasion of iraq? I will of course make the exception of the sadman and his family and a few "freedom fighter" organizations that got a cut in donations.
How?
Spain for example? :rolleyes:
Iraq hasn't been found to be any big maker with terrorist donations.
There has been no WMD findings and the terrorist connection findings has been in a steady increase after the major operations :p :rolleyes:
Whether you went to Iraq to prevent spread of WMD or terrorism, you've gone to the wrong place. (now theres potentially more terrorist connections and increasing.. weren't the purpose to cut off the support, instead of working as the local terrorist recruiter? :p)
More money for the terrorists comes from your beloved saudi-arabia and other countries.
Let alone the training camps and powerful persons behind terrorism.
-
Originally posted by Delirium
So, minus the personal attack, you admit I'm correct.
Thank you.
What personnal attack ?
Washington is in the Connecticut now ?
You were not speaking off the billions $$ France and Germany wer e making ?
Should I remind that the argument of the neo-con last year was : France choose to support Saddam because of the billions $$ debt Iraq had.
Since we've learn that the debt of Iraq toward the Us was far more important ...:rolleyes:
-
Many countries have said they will send troops if the occupation was under UN mandate. India told Powell they will send 20,000, Spain has said their 1,400 will remain etc.
-
Originally posted by Fishu
Iraq hasn't been found to be any big maker with terrorist donations.
There has been no WMD findings and the terrorist connection findings has been in a steady increase after the major operations :p :rolleyes:
Far from it Iraq now is a brewery for new terrorists a la palestine.
-
(http://death.innomi.com/uploads/TheDifference.jpg)
-
Oh my :)
Well one thing I can say for the water buffalo on the right. That's the Bush "power color" it's wearing. And it's eating American "goods" made by that new class of American "manufacturing" workers.
-
stabbytheicepick should be banned just to see what other stupid name he can barf up.
-
yes
all euros are beautiful (with good teeth :)) and all americans are fat and ugly (with bad teeth) - LOL
-
Thank you President Bush for invading Iraq, now onward to the rest of the rogue states in that region. *storch wishfully studies a map of the korean peninsula*
-
"Archie 'Eagler' Bunker said. "all euros are beautiful (with good teeth ) and all americans are fat and ugly (with bad teeth) - LOL
I can only wonder about someone who sees "teeth" in that picture, anywhere. Unless they're the type that's used them being there while talking out thier a&&.
-
Oh my god It is nice to see that everyone goes along and have fun :D
What do I think ? Well right now im looking out of my window and looking at the spring coming. You guys have fun and insult eachother and spoil youre time discussing thing that never will happen.
->>>>> O'club a forum for less importand and relaxed discussions lol :D
-
you know what stabbytheicepick (favored euro assault weapon BTW) on any given day, either or both simultaneously would do nicely. thanks for the photo.
-
i have now cleaned all the lawn furniture and had a beer...the bbq also needed some cleaning, and ill see what i can do about that tomorrow.
yall hadda good time ?
-
Yawn...
Boring.
:)