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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: bikekil on April 15, 2004, 12:16:04 PM

Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: bikekil on April 15, 2004, 12:16:04 PM
here in Europe... maybe there in US as well...

Are we afraid of the terrorist and murderers? Why people are cowardly trying to support "let's move out" ideas?

I'm far from being enthusiastic of a support the Iraq people got so far, but the right way would be to give them more help. Invest the $ and give them their JOBS... let them earn and take care of their families... but now,

We did a good job on dealing with the old regime there, we totally suck in terms on helping them, we should give then the powers and let them decide about their future.. .but i'm wondering, why with every OBL fart, we have more and more people interested in moving the troops outta there? WTF is wrong with you you selfish $%$#@. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: Ripsnort on April 15, 2004, 12:17:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by bikekil
here in Europe... maybe there in US as well...

Are we afraid of the terrorist and murderers? Why people are cowardly trying to support "let's move out" ideas?

I'm far from being enthusiastic of a support the Iraq people got so far, but the right way would be to give them more help. Invest the $ and give them their JOBS... let them earn and take care of their families... but now,

We did a good job on dealing with the old regime there, we totally suck in terms on helping them, we should give then the powers and let them decide about their future.. .but i'm wondering, why with every OBL fart, we have more and more people interested in moving the troops outta there? WTF is wrong with you you selfish $%$#@. :rolleyes:


We're (as you your post) a majority, those who want to turn tail and hide from OBL are a minority.
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: Arlo on April 15, 2004, 12:20:04 PM
A rather vocal minority .... as they tend to be.

"Peace in our time!"
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: bikekil on April 15, 2004, 12:25:32 PM
I don't know about US, but it's not that obvious in the Europe...

Let's look at the Spain - i really do understand (as much as it's possible without being there and seing this) the tragedy of Madrid, but after what heppened there i hear about majority voting for moving Spanish guys outta Iraq (that's what i see in TV anyway)...  and i can't get it!!! People saying "it's not our war" there? WHAT? after Madrid they say that's not their war? It's like they did something bad, they got punished and they accpeted the fact... hell, they should now send an appology to OBL :mad:

i just can't get it...

edited: I never meaqnt this post to be "against" any nation. What heppened in Spain could/may or is taking place at any other place on earth.
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: Swoop on April 15, 2004, 12:27:14 PM
Whatever the vocal minority may say, you can rest assured the British will not leave our American cousins in the lurch.  Period.

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
Title: Re: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: gofaster on April 15, 2004, 12:28:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by bikekil
we should give then the powers and let them decide about their future..


That's the plan.  The big concern is (a) we'll end up with the same-ol' same-ol' we just deposed or (b) civil war and genocide.
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: Arlo on April 15, 2004, 12:28:16 PM
Never doubted, Swoop. And visa versa, sir.
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: bikekil on April 15, 2004, 12:31:26 PM
Hear ya GoFaster, because of the concernes you mentioned i see moving our guys outta there as a VERY VERY bad idea atm (easy said). They should bet more help ASAP and more powers accordingly to the situation that is there... i believe it's not a short way for them to "grow up" to dealing with their problmes
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: Ripsnort on April 15, 2004, 12:32:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Swoop
Whatever the vocal minority may say, you can rest assured the British will not leave our American cousins in the lurch.  Period.

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)


And to think you burned our capitol to the ground in 1812 or so...who would have thunk we we'd be friends after that! :p
to our allies.
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: culero on April 15, 2004, 12:36:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
And to think you burned our capitol to the ground in 1812 or so...who would have thunk we we'd be friends after that! :p
to our allies.


Just goes to show ya, bad teeth and good character are not mutually exclusive ;)

culero ( ~S~ )
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: Saurdaukar on April 15, 2004, 12:55:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
And to think you burned our capitol to the ground in 1812 or so...who would have thunk we we'd be friends after that! :p
to our allies.


Well... we deserved it after that whole "revolution" thing way back when.  Bloody rebels...  ;)
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: ravells on April 15, 2004, 01:47:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by culero
Just goes to show ya, bad teeth and good character are not mutually exclusive ;)

culero ( ~S~ )


'He ain't heavy...he's my brother' ... oh wait! :p

Ravs
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: Swoop on April 15, 2004, 02:08:28 PM
No!  

NOT Brothers.


Cousins.



The slow, retarded cousins we never talk about.  


But cousins nonetheless ;)



And we shall continuously take the piss outta them for being late twice.

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: culero on April 15, 2004, 02:19:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Swoop
snip
And we shall continuously take the piss outta them for being late twice.


Yes, but you do so with such panache :)

culero
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: ra on April 15, 2004, 02:32:39 PM
Quote
Let's look at the Spain - i really do understand .....

Spain also has a unique position in the eyes of the jihadists.  Islamists believe that once a country has been ruled by Muslims it is forever a Muslim country.  The Muslims ruled Spain for centuries until Christians finally finished re-conquering it in the 15th century.  To the jihadists Spain is an occupied Muslim country. There is no position Spain can take in the current war which will change this.

ra
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: Naso on April 15, 2004, 02:58:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Well... we deserved it after that whole "revolution" thing way back when.  Bloody rebels...  ;)


Not rebels...

Terrorists.

;)

:p
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: culero on April 15, 2004, 03:06:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Naso
Not rebels...

Terrorists.

;)

:p


That's not true, or funny.

culero
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: muckmaw on April 15, 2004, 03:09:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Swoop
Whatever the vocal minority may say, you can rest assured the British will not leave our American cousins in the lurch.  Period.

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)


Why can't the rest of Europe be like you guys?

Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: Maniac on April 15, 2004, 03:21:06 PM
Quote
People saying "it's not our war" there? WHAT? after Madrid they say that's not their war?


Hey Bikekil! 90% of the Spanish people were against having troops in Iraq BEFORE the Terrorist attack in Madrid.

Edit : LoL Naso :D
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: SOB on April 15, 2004, 03:39:20 PM
LOL Naso :)

Quote
Originally posted by culero
That's not true, or funny.

Lighten up, Francis.
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: Pei on April 15, 2004, 06:33:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
And to think you burned our capitol to the ground in 1812 or so...who would have thunk we we'd be friends after that! :p
to our allies.


We were doing you a favour: you rebuilt  it and now look at what comes out of washington: taxes, social security and the redskins :).
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: ravells on April 15, 2004, 06:39:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by muckmaw
Why can't the rest of Europe be like you guys?



Because we really do like you lot, but...we have to maintain some sense of superiority  !

Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
And to think you burned our capitol to the ground in 1812 or so...who would have thunk we we'd be friends after that!  
to our allies.


remember going to see the liberty bell and the courthouse..and the guide said 'the English were so barbaric they used to chain people to the dock, we let them sit down' (or words to that effect)...and then I muttered...but you still have the death penalty....how babaric is that?'

Couple of very BIG American blokes looked at me with death in their eyes....and I shrunk into the crowd!

Ravs
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: Saurdaukar on April 15, 2004, 06:47:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ravells


remember going to see the liberty bell... Couple of very BIG American blokes looked at me with death in their eyes...

 


So you enjoyed Philadelphia?  :D
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: ravells on April 15, 2004, 06:50:18 PM
The Reading Terminal Market was.......just.....wonderful.

I ate proper Mexican food (not the crap they serve up here) and I fell in love with Phillly.

Horse riding in Wisahikkin (sp?) with my love at the time.

It was....utterly fantastic.

A most beautiful city........and everyone is so friendly!

A well named place.

Ravs
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: Blooz on April 15, 2004, 10:16:16 PM
Couple of world wars. Tens of millions dead. Over 50 years of teaching the children that war is wrong. Tends to produce a few pacifists I guess.
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: strk on April 15, 2004, 10:40:03 PM
War should be the last resort, but as Smedley Butler would say, it is a racket.  The truth is that the giant that awakened for WW2 never went back to sleep.  Bush* said that we weren't on a war footing but imo we have been since 1941.  

Military-industrial complex notwithstanding.

Should any of you doubt what I say check my sig for the words of a wiser man on the subject
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: NUKE on April 15, 2004, 10:43:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by strk
War should be the last resort, but as Smedley Butler would say, it is a racket.  The truth is that the giant that awakened for WW2 never went back to sleep.  Bush* said that we weren't on a war footing but imo we have been since 1941.  

Military-industrial complex notwithstanding.

Should any of you doubt what I say check my sig for the words of a wiser man on the subject


I think your sig. quote is an ignorant statement by a stupid arse.
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: strk on April 15, 2004, 10:49:07 PM
Really?  He was European commander of WW2 and the last republican president that wasn't a crook, liar, idiot or wackjob.  Funny that you don't like him, who has ben called the father of the new republican movement.
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: Torque on April 15, 2004, 10:51:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by strk
Really?  He was European commander of WW2 and the last republican president that wasn't a crook, liar, idiot or wackjob.  Funny that you don't like him, who has ben called the father of the new republican movement.


So true and he did warn about it all.
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: NUKE on April 15, 2004, 10:54:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by strk
Really?  He was European commander of WW2 and the last republican president that wasn't a crook, liar, idiot or wackjob.  Funny that you don't like him, who has ben called the father of the new republican movement.


Yeah, the guy that commanded the Allied invasion of France, using all the military might the allies could muster could then state that all the equipment used to liberate Europe was "taking away" from all the poor and hungery people. Yes, what a foolish statement. Hypocritcal too.

Either he is a moron or a liar.
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: Horn on April 15, 2004, 11:01:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
Yeah, the guy that commanded the Allied invasion of France, using all the military might the allies could muster could then state that all the equipment used to liberate Europe was "taking away" from all the poor and hungery people. Yes, what a foolish statement. Hypocritcal too.

Either he is a moron or a liar.


...or you lack the intellectual horsepower to understand the truth behind his statement.

h
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: DiabloTX on April 15, 2004, 11:10:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ravells
I ate proper Mexican food (not the crap they serve up here) and I fell in love with Phillly.



Ooooooh man, you need to re-educate yourself on what "real Mexican food" is.  Come on down to Texas, be glad to show ya!
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: Bodhi on April 15, 2004, 11:13:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Naso
Not rebels...

Terrorists.

;)

:p


Learn a bit more about our history before you post crap like that you uneducated twit.
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: Bodhi on April 15, 2004, 11:15:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
I think your sig. quote is an ignorant statement by a stupid arse.


coming from you and the crap you post, that's a compliment...

otherwise, I let your idiotic comment stand on its own... twit
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: Naso on April 16, 2004, 02:04:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
Learn a bit more about our history before you post crap like that you uneducated twit.


It must be sad living without sense of humor.
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: Dowding on April 16, 2004, 02:45:42 AM
'Period'? Shocked and appalled, mate. Shocked and appalled. :p

Cheap, sycophantic, sentiment isn't going to sort out Iraq - especially that written several thousand miles away from the front via the internet. If it came from a serviceman out in the desert I think it would actually mean something, otherwise...

As for leaving the US in the lurch, I'm sure Blair wouldn't do that. He got this country into this situation, he can bloody well sort it out; and if he fails, it will be his head in the general elections. This isn't about doing a 'Sir Robin' in the face of adversity - Afghanistan wasn't/isn't exactly a picnic and you'll find scarce few people wanting a pullout over there. Apart from, of course, for the CND types, who will be no doubt constructed into a straw man by the usual suspects.

So here's to the ousting of Tony Blair in 2005! Author of the Socialist Nanny State of British Isles and chief proponent of the most brainless, half-baked constitutional reforms the UK has ever seen.
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: type_char on April 16, 2004, 04:33:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ravells
'He ain't heavy...he's my brother' ... oh wait! :p

Ravs


Luke, I am your fathers nephews best friends pizza delivery man.

:D
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: ravells on April 16, 2004, 04:48:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by DiabloTX
Ooooooh man, you need to re-educate yourself on what "real Mexican food" is.  Come on down to Texas, be glad to show ya!


One day I shall take you up on that!

Thanks!

Ravs :)
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: beet1e on April 16, 2004, 04:55:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
A rather vocal minority .... as they tend to be.  
Rather like pizza map whiners.
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on April 16, 2004, 08:02:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Blooz
Couple of world wars. Tens of millions dead. Over 50 years of teaching the children that war is wrong. Tends to produce a few pacifists I guess.


While there are many good lessons to be taken from the near constant state of war that existed in Europe even before two world wars, there are also a few good lessons to be learned from the mistakes that constituted U.S. isolationism and pacifism concerning World War I and World War II and the preludes to same.

If you desire peace, then prepare for war. If you desire life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, not to mention security, then be well prepared to fight for it, for there will always be someone who is willing to attack you and take it from you.
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on April 16, 2004, 08:10:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by strk
War should be the last resort, but as Smedley Butler would say, it is a racket.  The truth is that the giant that awakened for WW2 never went back to sleep.  Bush* said that we weren't on a war footing but imo we have been since 1941.  

Military-industrial complex notwithstanding.

Should any of you doubt what I say check my sig for the words of a wiser man on the subject


Eisenhower had his moments, but he was wrong about any number of things, including that which is contained in your signature.

It should be quite obvious to anyone who is more than semi conscious that the military base that he complains about is so very necessary in order to provide that which he seeks to provide to the less than fortunate. Because in many cases, those who are less than fortunate are KEPT that way be those who profit from keeping them that way, or are taught by ethnics or religion to keep them that way, and will use force to try to stop anyone who would try to provide for those less than fortunate.
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: storch on April 16, 2004, 08:16:27 AM
Texas for sure Diablo but there are a couple of very real Mexican places in Homestead, Florida as well.  And just out of curiousity, could any of our Spanish friends in the Rota area confirm of a place called "Texas Jacks"  they made some fine Chili there.
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: DiabloTX on April 16, 2004, 08:21:00 AM
Hey Storch, there a couple of members of my reserve unit that go to Rota, or I should say, have been to Rota recently and I will ask them tomorrow during our drill.  

Rota was very cool.  Of all the ports that we hit I liked it the most from an all-around perspective.  Capri was nice but $$$$ and Palma was just one big party.  Half the ship would be brought back by SP from drinking too much.  

Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: bikekil on April 16, 2004, 12:50:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Maniac
Hey Bikekil! 90% of the Spanish people were against having troops in Iraq BEFORE the Terrorist attack in Madrid.


I had no idea about it... as i thought they had some reasons to send the troops there...

Still the question is, how it's possible that after the attack they don't want to be involved?

Ra, of course it's true about the Spanish "roots", but it's just a history (with it's impact on the present, but not much i think).

If for jihadists Spain is an occupied Muslim country, then why they are killilng their own people? I mean i hear you, but what they are doing have no sense (from a "normal" mind).

That or other way - the question is what country Spain is willing to be?
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: strk on April 16, 2004, 03:21:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Eisenhower had his moments, but he was wrong about any number of things, including that which is contained in your signature.

It should be quite obvious to anyone who is more than semi conscious that the military base that he complains about is so very necessary in order to provide that which he seeks to provide to the less than fortunate. Because in many cases, those who are less than fortunate are KEPT that way be those who profit from keeping them that way, or are taught by ethnics or religion to keep them that way, and will use force to try to stop anyone who would try to provide for those less than fortunate.


Capt. Virgil Hilts!! Nice to see you again!   Ive been afraid to post on BW because I had to change my clock on my computer to avoid a software timeout until I could get the problem fixed.  Lord knows I never would have heard the end of it.

As for a reply - that is cold war thinking, friend.  We ramped up the defense industry in 1941 and we never shut it down again.  Ike statement is true today and it was true back then because every expenditure has an opportunity cost.  The old guns and butter.  Our resources are vast but not infinite.  

So we sacrifice higher taxes and less schools, services roads, etc so we can have a stronger military.  The military budget is a third of our total budget.  In light of our nuclear stockpile in response to the cold war, have we really needed to defend the borders of the US since WW2?  Before 9-11 the answer would be no, and aside from a few divisions needed to take afghanistan, fighting terrorism is a job for police, intelligence and special forces, not the 1st Division or 1st MarDiv.

Ike warned about the military industrial complex.  I saw it in the begining of "JFK" so I know he said it.  The defense industry has every incentive to keep the military beefed up, and  we all know how money can influence politics.

Don't we spend more in defense than the next several next-to highest countries combined?  There is a cost for this.  We have to give up other things for it- services or lower taxes.
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: culero on April 16, 2004, 04:29:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Naso
It must be sad living without sense of humor.


Some things ain't funny.

You're Italian, right? How would (or do) you feel about people making jokes that reference Italians as Nazis?

That is, after all, a more truthful reference than the one you made.

culero
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: culero on April 16, 2004, 04:33:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by strk
snip
Ive been afraid to post on BW because I had to change my clock on my computer to avoid a software timeout until I could get the problem fixed.  Lord knows I never would have heard the end of it.


No excuse!

culero (look at DD, for example ;) )
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: NUKE on April 16, 2004, 05:18:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
coming from you and the crap you post, that's a compliment...

otherwise, I let your idiotic comment stand on its own... twit


Why would you personally attack me? Why not try to figure out how that statement by Ike does not hold water? It's a beautiful, flowery statement....but one that makes NO SENSE.

Bring on the arguments if you can...I'll be home from work in about 3 hours.
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on April 16, 2004, 05:53:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by culero
No excuse!

culero (look at DD, for example ;) )


I don't have an excuse, and don't really need one. The REASON I'm not even subscribed anymore is the never ending liberal rant and tirade going on. Sad too, because I liked the jokes and Earls log book. The rest just got on my nerves too much.
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: Arlo on April 16, 2004, 06:21:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by strk

As for a reply - that is cold war thinking, friend.  


Strk! (my old VF-17 squadie)

Point of order, however. Isn't referencing the "Cold War" right on the money when refering to the Eisenhower quote anyhow? Wasn't that the true context and nature of the quote? After all, Ike wasn't truly a "pacifist."

Ike promised no more "creeping socialism" or "20 years of treason."

(http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/USPics14/75657.jpg)


(http://www.cr.nps.gov/nr/twhp/wwwlps/lessons/29ike/29images/29img1bl.jpg)

(http://history.sandiego.edu/cdr2/USPics/82252.GIF)
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: strk on April 16, 2004, 06:59:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
Strk! (my old VF-17 squadie)

Point of order, however. Isn't referencing the "Cold War" right on the money when refering to the Eisenhower quote anyhow? Wasn't that the true context and nature of the quote? After all, Ike wasn't truly a "pacifist."

Ike promised no more "creeping socialism" or "20 years of treason."

(http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/USPics14/75657.jpg)


(http://www.cr.nps.gov/nr/twhp/wwwlps/lessons/29ike/29images/29img1bl.jpg)

(http://history.sandiego.edu/cdr2/USPics/82252.GIF)


Wrong one, must be a different strk.  (Strk maybe?) - I remember a few in the bad old days of aol AW there were a few strk cpid's running around

You got me on the cold war thing - that was exactly the context.  Still has meaning in my opinion
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: beet1e on April 17, 2004, 03:46:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
So here's to the ousting of Tony Blair in 2005! Author of the Socialist Nanny State of British Isles and chief proponent of the most brainless, half-baked constitutional reforms the UK has ever seen.
Wow Dowding! :eek: That's a hell of a statement from someone like yourself - not being sarcastic or anything, but I know how you and people around you suffered in the Thatcher revolution.

I joined the Conservatives a week or two ago. It was on the day that Beverley Hughes resigned, having been found to be lying to the House of Commons about her knowledge of immigrants from Romania being fast-tracked into Britain. I just couldn't take any more of being lied to by this bloody government.  I've got a few things to ask you - best done by email - has your email address changed in the last year or so?
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: ravells on April 17, 2004, 03:53:50 PM
Ah but Beetle...do you remember why we kicked the Tories out in the first place? Arrogance, scandal, incompetance, complancency.

I don't think that Dracula and his minions are ready yet (oh why oh why didn't they pick Ken Clark?) but let's see in 2005.

Ravs
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: beet1e on April 17, 2004, 04:04:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ravells
Ah but Beetle...do you remember why we kicked the Tories out in the first place? Arrogance, scandal, incompetance, complancency.

I don't think that Dracula and his minions are ready yet (oh why oh why didn't they pick Ken Clark?) but let's see in 2005.
Indeed. And I was thoroughly disgusted by the 1992 Major/Lamont ERM fiasco, and did not vote at all in 1997 or 2001. But times have changed. And it is my sincere belief that we simply cannot afford another Labour government. Hey, why don't we have that drink you suggested - meet in Chiswick? I need all the input/feedback I can get.
Title: WTF is wrong with us here?
Post by: ravells on April 17, 2004, 04:17:13 PM
Sounds good to me!

Wifey will be back in Athens all of next week.  I can't do Tuesday, but the rest of the week should be fine.

Why don't you drop me a line at: ravells@hotmail.com

Ravs