Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on April 16, 2004, 12:44:32 AM
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this is a 3d studio max 3d model i am building. it started out as just a test of how I would build a ultradetailed b24d with plans i ordered that havent arrived yet. so i started chiseling away at a low poly practice version with low res 3 view plan and a lot of photos.
its only just started and has no wings or details yet.
the polygon count on this liberator is very low and its spline based making it endlessly modifiable and making several level of detail versions is possible. all windows done in miniumum polygons.
I am wondering is this somthing that could be usable in ah2 if built to HTC specifications?
(http://www.r0013636.hostultra.com/uploads/data/media/1/b24d9g.jpg)
(http://www.r0013636.hostultra.com/uploads/data/media/1/b24d9d.jpg)
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Looks like a Kazoo...
Just kidding, good work.
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omg it looks sweeeeeeeet!!!!!! :D
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...and there I was saying you'd likely be the only person using an aircraft Creator for AH or AH2 ... and you go ahead without one regardless.
You Da Man.
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Hey Fester you should email me or get in touch with Vermillion.
Whymanbuster420@yahoo.com
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Yes he does Nef. I bet Fester could do a heck of a job on a few aircraft for TH.
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don't have verms email
and whats TH?
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Target Hanoi
No one plays targetware so you would most likely be wasting your time.
Especially if they have multiple versions Target Korea, Target Honoi, Target Rabaul, Target Flanders, etc.....
More Targets then target players.
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OT but wth:
Options and alternatives to the current crop of games isn't a bad thing at all Batz. BTW I have been having a blast with AEP for IL-2:FB lately and still want to try and find a ETO campaign for the expansion pack.
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WOW FESTER B-24 would be great!
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Wouldn't be of any use Citabria.
HiTEch
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That sucks, wed see alot more planes alot sooner if people from the community could help make them as well.
Im sure a very very very few could make anything up to HTC specifications and quality etc, but those that could would be a big help in making things go faster.
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Options and alternatives to the current crop of games isn't a bad thing at all Batz.
No its a good idea. However as time progresses TW gets left behind.
It seems to me that it would make better sense to channel the effort to one and get it done and build a player base. I know its volunteer work but stringing along 5 projects.
One thing that will do is similiar to what it has done to Fb. Most of the models for AEP were came from the community. The new PAC is being developed from folks in the community.
With no player base and no real interest TW could string on for quite awhile just like it has.
I am not taking away from the work thats been done.
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rgr ht,
would it be possible to supprt 3dsmax6 for terrain editing the 3d objects on the terrain tiles though?
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(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/145_1079328925_newugly.jpg)
I think i'm gonna give my next USAF Phantom a ficticious name:
"Waste of Time"
:p@Batz
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Not realy cit .
HiTech
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Originally posted by Nefarious
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/145_1079328925_newugly.jpg)
I think i'm gonna give my next USAF Phantom a ficticious name:
"Waste of Time"
:p@Batz
It may make you feel good but I just checked over at tw the CT is packed compared to the 2 folks over there flying in TR. TK is empty as usual.
Having a good looking model sitting on some ones hard drive is a waste of time :p
Theres 3 or 4 other Jet game out there thatr could probrably use a good model. Folks play those.
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well thats a total bummer,
gonna finish it anyway, will be good practice for the ultra hi res b24 i want to model :)
(http://www.r0013636.hostultra.com/uploads/data/media/1/b24d9g.jpg)
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I could care less if the only people that play Target Hanoi are the people that created it.
If you dislike TW so much, take it off your Hard Drive. If you can tell how many people are playing in TR and TK then you must have downloaded both of them.
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chill
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i think just building the stuff gives you more appreciation for the work others do.
after building maps and seeing how much work goes into them i dont critiscise anyone elses map.
I see how much work building 3d models is and how precise you must be to get accurate and good looking aircraft is not easy, any line just slightly out of place ruins the proportions of the model!
i think part of the fun for the designers of the targetware games and playing them as well is that they can create these planes and go fly them against other players.
as far as being a waste of time building 3d models, well who knows, I was pretty bumbed that no matter how few polygons i use or how accurate i make that liberator its never gonna fly in aces high, so i crashed and burned in that regard and it would seem my efforts to that end ar eindeed a waste of time if you want to look at it that way.
but considering i started the b24 as a practice model and it started looking good o i thought hmm maybe its usable. the up side is a few days ago i didnt know how to build a 3d airplane, or how to use 3dsmax hell i didnt know what splines meshs welds fuzes or any of that crap was till i started this experiment. well in that regard it was not a waste of time.
i dont think the effort the designers put into targetware games are a waste no matter what the outcome of the games in terms of popularity.
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Originally posted by Nefarious
I could care less if the only people that play Target Hanoi are the people that created it.
If you dislike TW so much, take it off your Hard Drive. If you can tell how many people are playing in TR and TK then you must have downloaded both of them.
Please quote where I said I dislike TW. I simply stated the obvious. Of course I downloaded TW and my versions are current.
If you didn't care you wouldn't need to act out like that.
Cit,
I didn't mean that building the model would be a waste of time. Lots of folks enjoy that stuff. I am tinkering myself.
I meant that if one were to build a model specifically to put into a game for other folks to enjoy then there are games other then TW where said model would be enjoyed by a wider audience. For instance, FB/AEP.
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yep batz, I enjoy Aces High the most even though FB AEP looks better visually. and I am partial to HTC because they are the best. best game, best service, best everything. I enjoy the small town feel of HTC being able to call them and actually talk to them if theres a problem or have a map editing question. shows real class on their part to take the time to do that.
thats why i asked HTC if they could use it before I contemplated talking to the people at IL2 add on's to see if they are looking for a b24.
well I posted on their design board and it seems that the b-24 project over there was either abandoned or somthing but its unclear whats going on with it. anyways if they do use the model it would be cool to see it and shoot at is as an ai drone or a flyable model in their il2 pacific fighters add on, but seeing it in AH2 would have been way cooler.
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Originally posted by Batz
Of course I downloaded TW and my versions are current.
Then it seems then your part of the reason why:
Originally posted by Batz
TK is empty as usual.
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id like to see Target rabaul is it free to download?
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Originally posted by Citabria
id like to see Target rabaul is it free to download?
Yep.
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where?
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http://www.targetware.net
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Originally posted by Nefarious
Then it seems then your part of the reason why:
No, the reason why is running multi projects at once without completing one to the point that makes it attractive to more players.
It seems to be a black whole for want to be game designers. As I said above if the player base were to develop then it would get the attention of other modelers. Look at FB/AEP as an example of what a good product can inspire. Hundreds within that community are contributing to the development of the game.
Don’t try to blame me. I am just a player. If there’s nothing to play I just move to the next one.
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Fester, I'd expect HTC won't take any model/object additions but the ones made with their chosen 3D editor. The one they ask for in that Terrain Editor thread.
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So, is HT implying that they are already modeling and putting in a B24?
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no he is implying they have gone one better and making the b-29!
we all want teh nooke1!!!1111111111!!!1111oneenoone
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Originally posted by hitech
Not realy cit .
HiTech
Do you prefer document instead ?
Like for the D520 , MS406 ,Amiot 351 LéO 45(1) VG33 ?
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no he is implying they have gone one better and making the b-29!
That would be sweet... But I say the more the marrier... Even tho it makes no difference what I say:D
Seeing, shooting at, and flying the B24 in Aces High would be a real treat... Anything new would be a real treat...
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Cit, Ive been a lifelong fan of the B24 and I say, thats one sweet start to a B24. Great work!!! :D :D
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thanks united!
liberators my favorite airplane too.
its so ugly and cool looking and on top of that every plastic model ive evr seen of it does awful inaccuracies to the cockpit canopy. they get everything else close but for some reason everything goes wrong in this area. the good plastic model companies havent touched it or the b17g in 1/48 scale and the only model around is the monogram kit from the 70's and its got the worst canopy ive seen.
Ive got the canopy and green house nose on this one pretty close but even i dont have it just right its so damned deceptive on the real airplane. no wonder it throws everyone that tries to create it for a loop.
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i am curious though if HT can use the basic mesh that can be converted to 3DS format which is usable by any version of 3dsmax. I think HTC uses an older version of 3dsmax
could it read the 3ds format?
if so then i would love to help build higher detail meshes of planes in the game with low res meshes that superfly and natedog are not working on and turn that basic frame over to them. it would be a win win for both parties because its somthing I enjoy and seem to do pretty well given i just started tinkering with the program last week and never touched the stuff before except for the terrain editor and building a starwars ywing in truespace like 9 ears ago.
it would seem logical that providing the polygon mesh only could be somthing useful for sf and nate as they have over 50 models to redo in high res and though they would still have to make the guts of the model having the frame done already in exact proportions with all the research and planning that goes along with getting the frame to that level. and in my limited experience thus far its been evident to me that the better the plans and the more photoreferences gathered, the better the final polygon mesh will be.
I know I can do a basic mesh to any specifications required, and you know i would really like to try.
and damn natedog superfly would you really want to pass up the chance to tell me ive got some detail 2 inches out of place after ive been doing that to you guys for 4 years? :D
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Originally posted by Citabria
i am curious though if HT can use the basic mesh that can be converted to 3DS format which is usable by any version of 3dsmax. I think HTC uses an older version of 3dsmax which could surely read the 3ds format.
if so then i would love to help build higher detail meshes of planes in the game with low res that superfly and natedog are not working on and turn the basic frame over to them.
to me it would seem logical that providing the polygon mesh only could be somthing useful for sf and nate as they have over 50 models to redo in high res and though they would still have to make the guts of the model.
I know I can do a basic mesh to any specifications required, and you know i would really like to try.
and damn natedog superfly would you really want to pass up the chance to tell me ive got some detail 2 inches out of place after ive been doing that to you guys for 4 years? :D
You could work for Hitech now like Donald Trump said "Your Hired![/b] :D
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Originally posted by Citabria
i am curious though if HT can use the basic mesh that can be converted to 3DS format which is usable by any version of 3dsmax. I think HTC uses an older version of 3dsmax which could surely read the 3ds format.
if so then i would love to help build higher detail meshes of planes in the game with low res meshes that superfly and natedog are not working on and turn that basic frame over to them. it would be a win win for both parties because its somthing I enjoy and seem to do pretty well given i just started tinkering with the program last week and never touched the stuff before except for the terrain editor and building a starwars ywing in truespace like 9 ears ago.
it would seem logical that providing the polygon mesh only could be somthing useful for sf and nate as they have over 50 models to redo in high res and though they would still have to make the guts of the model having the frame done already in exact proportions with all the research and planning that goes along with getting the frame to that level. and in my limited experience thus far its been evident to me that the better the plans and the more photoreferences gathered, the better the final polygon mesh will be.
I know I can do a basic mesh to any specifications required, and you know i would really like to try.
and damn natedog superfly would you really want to pass up the chance to tell me ive got some detail 2 inches out of place after ive been doing that to you guys for 4 years? :D
you are wrong, mail me at ramzeyca@op.pl
im working tommorow so you can get answer at monday
btw nice pice of work
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what do you mean?
is there nothing i can do to help?
is there no way i can provide some piece of 3d work
that will assist in seeing a new aircraft or old low polycount
aircraft to ah2?
theres a lot of crap i can be wrong about in my post and I
wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong about everything, its not
uncommon for me to be that wrong but your criptic reply is quite
confusing
i thought the old 3ds file is a standard thing that can contain
mesh polygon information but not texturemapping or more
complex information? that this file can be exported and imported
say from 3dsmax6 to 3dsmax51. etc?
i thought 3ds file was able to be imported to any 3dsmax
software??!!?
im confused.
isnt their some basic language to 3d modelling similar to texture
modelling?
is there no equivelant transferable universal file type like a 3d
bitmap file?
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heres the basic situation and its likely technical problems that make it nonworkable.
you have an outsider (me) wanting to help build a complex piece
of art that requires insider(HTC) information and techniques to
realize and deliver in finished form to the community (Aces High)
for my part I am willing to learn whatever system, specifications,
limits or details that will make this possible within the contraints
of the problems I just mentioned.
so the question really is what would be HTC's reasons for making
it possible for an outsider to help build a part of a 3d aircraft.
the possible reasons for allowing such a thing would be:
- the recent work done by the players in skinning the aircraft and
tanks. several players have done fantastic work on this small part
of the game and made it more enjoyable for themselves and for
others bringing a level of detail to the work they did that is very
high quality.
- with 50 aircraft to remodel, the backlog for superfly and
natedog can be measured in years.
- the level of reasearch and fanatical attention to detail in the
work done by a player (me) in other areas such as terrain making
and texture skinning along with currently posted pics of 3d work
started days ago would put to rest any worries about the model
not being accurate. especially given the fact thatthe player
looked at plan view drawings of the actual liberator and judged
them to be inaccurate and modified the model accordingly from
photo references.
some possible reasons for not allowing such a thing:
- the software is incompatible and trying to get two different
pieces of software to interact when not designed to do so is
more trouble than its worth. (most likely)
-as a strict matter of professionalism it is good practice to keep all
complex artwork such as 3d modelling in house to maintain
uniformity and quality intact.
-we want to do it ourselves and do not want any help.
- we dont want models made with nonlicensed software
(btw my 3dsmax6 is paid for and its not a student copy and it
was not cheap)
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no matter the outcome of this I have found a great new hobby
that I am certain has replaced my former interest in building
plastic models. building these airplanes in 3d is thoroughly
enjoyable. I would like to be able to share my work with the
Aces High community because I think the level of accuracy of the
models is second to none and its more gratifying building it when
you know that others will be able to not just enjoy seeing it but
will actually get to fly in it. thats cool stuff.
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Fester, you found any bugs in the 3dmax program? I have been dabbling with the program, but its pretty complex. And by the way, excellent job on the bomber and your input
P.S. Stay away from hitechs bribe link, he's way too expensive:eek: :eek:
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it crashes sometimes when using a lot of splines so i just make sure to save my work a lot other than that its really cool program :)
what version 3dsmax you have?
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I hope you don't get yourself too worked up about Ramzey's post. He's not being rude or curt, but rather trying to be helpful to you via private email.
I also think you should examine Targetware for yourself and see the level of detail and attention to detail in modeling (both flight and visual). It is still just a public beta and what someone sees now is not what the final engine is destined to be. There are also many talented folks who will eagerly help you reduce the learning curve to your new-found hobby. I have no doubt that you are capable of producing some quality aircraft.
While AH is certainly the king of hill in its field (which is a 'game' that makes sensible sacrifices to reality for the enjoyment of many), TW is more of a 'sim' with less sacrifices in flight and aircraft modeling/piloting/navigation etc. for those with more of a 'sim' mentality. It certainly is more of a 'thinking man's' sim and that seems like something you might appreciate as a complement to your AH experience - not a replacement.
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Damn i should go to sleep, but what the hell read this post and I got to add my 1 cent into the bucket.
Hitech has said in many posts to users that hitechcreations will not accept any 3D models of aircraft. This is mainly the same with all game development companys.
The reason for this and other companys, is that. If it was easy to import a 3D model into there game engine, at no cost of developing the Model, do you think they would re-fuse the offer?
The true nature is that Game programing is a very complex art, there are huge amouts of detail that all users dont know about. Even with hitech current crew of 2 guys working on 1 single model, it would take them weeks or months just to get 1 single model working correctly with the code. This is a pretty good example that there is alot going on behind the scene that we dont even know about.
Its just not a easy step to importing a model from the public into a game engine.
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I made this 3d model of a SAAB Safari trainer (test bed aircraft for a UAV sensor pod) for use with the Norwegian CODS battlefield command and control system. Low poly count and no cockpit doesn't make it very pretty, but it is supposed to be used alongside thousands of other "units" in the battlefield display system.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/245_1082309894_finalrender.jpg)
http://www.lencods.com/Downloads/CODSMovieDivX.zip
Norwegian Battle Lab and Experimentation (NOBLE) got the US Network Centric Warfare Award for this system, and your Homland Security guys are using it now.
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-as a strict matter of professionalism it is good practice to keep all complex artwork such as 3d modelling in house to maintain
uniformity and quality intact.
I would guess this is closer to the truth, but it's just a guess. They probably don't want to open a can of worms.
The pics you posted look pretty nice, keep up the good work and keep us informed as it progresses.
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they also said they would never allow skins f6bomber.
things change.
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The level of dificulty between producing a finished 3d game model and a skin is night and day. It's not that I don't belive that there are not any players capable, but just puting the spec's required is a significant undertaking.
When ever we have thought about it, we have come to the conlusion that it would take just as much time trying to use someone else model vs building it ourselfs.
So it is none of your above for your resones cit.
HiTech
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This has been stated over at Oleg's as well.
If the model isn't on par right from the start,(and every step of the way) it could take as long, or longer to fix it than it would be for the inhouse guys to make one from scratch.
Not that I know what I am talking about.. I am just spewing what I have read.
Nice work though Cit, wish I had the patience to try my hand at modelling.
SKurj
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rgr ht
would be a great challenge to try it but i understand.
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still im having a blast making these things :)
I'm giving the pb4y privateer a go for the il2 pacific add on, they have a b24 already finished but no one started working on the privateer yet
(http://www.r0013636.hostultra.com/uploads/data/media/1/PB4Yb.jpg)
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Good luck Cit, I'd love to see a Privateer in a game!
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fester, I would do a knock up job, and send it as a christmas present to htc. Some people send fruit cakes that are older than air warrior, so I cant imagine this could be much worse.
Then in some fit of bribe induced drunken boredom maybe htc will just give it a shot and see how hard it would be to use donated models.
It couldnt hurt. much.
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Nice start, Cit. I've been using 3DMax for about 6 months now, creating models for a game project currently under construction, and know how much work goes into these things. At some point, I might be looking for some volunteer help...if you're interested. I know also the amount of time and effort involved in taking an imported file format into a modeling program and cleaning it up. I started with Milkshape3D for my early efforts, before moving to Max. I spent hours cleaning up the mesh (pun intended). Then of course there's the skinning (can take almost as long, if not longer than the 3D model). Have you worked with Chiliskinner? It's a Max script that aids in the generating of mapping coordinates, and in creating a base bitmap of the flattened/unfolded model. That base map is then "painted" in an art program like The Gimp or photoshop, then loaded back into Max as a texture map, with all the mapping coordinates exactly laid over the base map. Great little utility.
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model looks good cit,
To bad it's not easy for HT to plug in new 3D models for Aces High. Having a large selection of planes to fly would make the CT theater and the Special Events arenas much more interesting. I don't think MA would get much use out of additional planes sets since most tend to fly certain types of planes anyway.
HT,
Did your team look into writing exporters for 3ds max?
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I love the old saying.
No matter how well you build your 3D model, if it has watermelon textures its going to look chit. But if you build a baisc 3D model, and the textures are GREAT! then the 3D model blends into the background.
Though its one of the statements i found somewere on the internet giving a tutorial over how to build 3D models for games.
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just trying to get the proportions right and the wireframe done first. can't start texturing till thats complete.
(http://www.r0013636.hostultra.com/uploads/data/media/1/pb4y.jpg)
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Originally posted by Sabre
Nice start, Cit. I've been using 3DMax for about 6 months now, creating models for a game project currently under construction, and know how much work goes into these things. At some point, I might be looking for some volunteer help...if you're interested. I know also the amount of time and effort involved in taking an imported file format into a modeling program and cleaning it up. I started with Milkshape3D for my early efforts, before moving to Max. I spent hours cleaning up the mesh (pun intended). Then of course there's the skinning (can take almost as long, if not longer than the 3D model). Have you worked with Chiliskinner? It's a Max script that aids in the generating of mapping coordinates, and in creating a base bitmap of the flattened/unfolded model. That base map is then "painted" in an art program like The Gimp or photoshop, then loaded back into Max as a texture map, with all the mapping coordinates exactly laid over the base map. Great little utility.
heh sabre ive only had 3dsmax for 10 days and have no real 3d modelling experience prior to that. the liberator started out as practice and it has become an extended practice session lol. it has been helpful for me learning utilities of the program as i need them and in the case of this plane im reading the reference section and tutorials as i plug along, when i find somthing that i am sure theres a better way to make, i read more of the turotials and reference sections and no doubt they have already thought of the better way and off i go using the new stuff i learned making the model a better way.
when the 3d mesh is finished the next part of 3dsmax I will play with will be the material editor. ive read about UVW mappign but not done any yet so it will be a new learning experience.
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10 days? Wow! I had done some 3D modelling before, and still I struggled with the steep learning curve of 3DMax. I'm impressed if you managed to get that much done starting from minimal experience. I haven't done much with spline's, prefering to start with some of the primitives and molding/extruding/etc them. Use of boolean operations is also very helpful to get create shapes with complex geometries that meld into one another. Let me know if I can be of any assistance. I'm no expert with the program, but I've got the basics down.
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i think using the terrain editor helped because it is a basic 3d editing program in as far as you are moving around 3d objects and aranging them and also sculpting the landscape.
I think perhaps that and skinning aces high aircraft made what ive done so far less confusing.
I might need some tips on UV mapping when i get to that will let ya know :P