Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: kj714 on April 16, 2004, 01:46:21 PM
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Okay you bomber killer experts, give it up!
Whats your secret?
I've been trying to get better, and have achieved some degree of success.
I've been trying the swooping pass from underneath with an extend past the wingtips of the formation and the dive across the wings, anything to stay off the 6 oclock tail position. I've also been trying to concentrate on the wingtips of the bombers as they seem to be the most vulnerable. Can't hit the tail reliably for some reason. Haven't tried cockpit shots enough yet, but I understand they are preferred as well. A flat or low turn into the side of the formation doesnt seem to work all that great as I just get a lot of fuselage hits which dont seem to do alot.
I'm surprised how hard it is for me to get the right lead on them. Yeah, I'm a terrible shot.
If you were diving at a 45 degree angle or climbing at a 135 degree angle to the formation at say 300 mph and the formation was doing about 160, how much would you lead? Say your distance is about 650, when you start hitting your guns. I think I'm leading too much.
It's seems that your average gunner can't hit you very well if you are not floating around in the 6 spot somewhere, like most people seem to do. Of course, 999000 and tatertot are exceptions to this rule.
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Straight down from a P47. And I don't mean straight down so you end up on their 6. Set all guns to 650 and pick a spot on the bomber (I prefer wingtips). Speed @ 400-500 (with brakes extended for better control if available, and throttle idled).
Work 1 or 2 bombers each pass and you'll soon have 3 easy kills. Nothing dives like a jug, and coming in directly above them at that speed makes you very difficult to hit. You'll also have plenty of energy to regain your starting position.
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http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=113907
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First and foremost, when attacking bombers, you need patience above all things. That said, your next priority is getting into position above the bomber. Pick your approach. I prefer a steep approach from the buff's high 4 or 2 o'clock (or 8 or 10, same thing left side).
Once your in position, make sure your speed is decent. It can vary a lot from plane to plane, but in general I like to be above 300 TAS before I start my dive. Manage your throttle while in your dive to avoid compression in certain planes (especially 109s).
The higher your angle of approach is, the better off you'll be. While a steep approach makes your gunnery slightly more difficult due to the target being under your nose for the majority of the time, it is indeed safer. And again, keep your speed up, but do not compress. Your goal is for a speedy attack in and out QUICKLY. The more time you spend making a pass means more time for the gunners to track you.
The range at which I open fire really depends on two things: Your preference and the type of armament you're carrying. If you're using taters in a 109, I prefer to open up at no more than 300 yards. If I'm flying a F4U-1C, I'll open up at about 450 with a large lead on the target. .50 caliber is a tight laser beam when fired at convergence. I typically have my .50 caliber convergence set anywhere from 375 - 450. A small burst of 6x .50 caliber at convergence will tear anything up.
One important thing to remember when making a pass is to get IN and get OUT as fast as possible. Guns on target for minimal amount of time.
Dont:- Keep your guns on target for more than 2-3 seconds. Firing until the buff explodes is a bad idea.
- Hang around the rear of the buff with low E
- Compress
- Initiate your attack in a low E state (ie, co-alt and same speed as buff)
- Get shot :)
Attack the target quickly and deny him a decent firing solution. Imagine you're in the gunner's position... which angles give you the most trouble?
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Octavius:
Good stuff, I gotta start filming my runs against formations and reviewing, maybe I'm not leading enough. As big as a bomber wing is I'm surprised I'm not getting more hits.
68Devil:
Nice film for sure. I'm trying to avoid doing what TC does in that film, which is the classic mistake I'd say at least 75% of people do in the game. TC comes up almost level on 6, floats around then rolls out and down. A halfway decent gunner will tear an nme up on that approach.
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there front usually has the fewest guns pointed at it...b17s are a problem when it comes to this but since there nose turret doesnt have much downward movement attack from slightly below...
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I use the 38 for killing Buff's in the following ways. If in a HO position <30 * crossing angle - I salvo my rockets into the form. 1 hit ususally takes out 2 and disables the 3rd. If top attack, same profile from 6 high with walking rockets upto the lead bomber.
Assuming u do not have rockets, aim for the wingtips and never stay straight and level.
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kj714 - some good tips here. B17s are lethal if there's a dedicated gunner on board. LANCs can be easier - no ball turret on a LANC. I've attached a couple of films, killing all three LANCs in a formation. In the F4U1D it was a desperate effort to prevent 68aces getting to the CV, so I broke every rule. The F6F films shows how you can come up from underneath a LANC, taking advantage of the absence of a ball turret gunner. Note - I find this very difficult to do. Pull up too early and you're dead. But if I can do it, so can you. I'm not highly skilled.
In AH, I always go for the leader of the formation first. And try to be sure to nobble the tail gunner. Then, as the pilot fumbles with his keyboard to transfer to his number 2 or 3, you have a few secs to whack those as well.
Oh yeah, please forgive my evil laugh - I always do that if I manage to nobble all three! :lol
Beet's buff kill films (http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/killbuff.zip)
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I usually HO all Bombers. The Luftwaffe di it, and I seem to have good luck doing it, ask 999000 :)
Lancs and 26's, also from underneath. Theat is their weak point.
Karaya
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The strategy I use depends on the type of buff I'm attacking.
B17s - High speed slashing dive attacks from 1-2 or 10-11oc, alternating back and forth until all ships are dead/on fire. I prefer to aim for the cockpit or wingroot area. Come almost straight down, this limits the guns shooting at you to the upper turrets, and possibly the waist gun on the ship on the far side of the formation. Dive in, make a shot, and start the pull out/turn to reposition for your next attack. The key to cracking 17s is patience, trying to force/salvage a bad angle will probably put you low, in the 17s 5-7oc and 500-800yds, which means a quick trip to tower.
B26s - Similar to the 17s in initial setup, though you want more lateral seperation than vertical seperation. Come in from 10/2, using a dive to help build speed for setting up the follow on attack. Leave your nose low until you're under the upper turret's field of fire. Then pull up for the shot and continue through to set up for the next attack.
Ju88s - I use the same attack setup as 17s, though I don't worry about making the angle quite as steep. Stay ahead of the 3-9 line, and remember there's a fixed, pilot controlled mg.
Lancs - Two methods for dealing with these, depending on the initial situation. If I already have a nice altitude advantage I'll use the high slashing I use on 17s. If I'm closer to the lanc's altitude I'll use low beam attacks. Start in from about 1-2oc and get under the upper turret's line of fire. The idea is for the lanc to cross your firing position with you at its 3oc. I usually go for the wingroot area when using this attack. This is also the only attack where I'll push the nose and pass the buff over my canopy after I fire. The path for setting up for the next attack is easy to track from the upper turret if you pass above the lancs.
Bostons and the Japanese buffs (ki67?) I haven't really studied these like I have the ones above. I usually just 'default' to the high slashing attack on these.
Fly the bombers, man the guns, learn thier weaknesses. Then tailor your attacks to the buffs' weaknesses.
The high slash make a good "default" attack for any buff. You could practice it to perfection and use it on any buff you come across.
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Tip : from above a high speed pass crossing their path from rear left to front right for example aiming at wingtip.
I usualy get at least 2 with this method and often all 3.
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i cant speak for 999000 but our take usually is a guy who has patience and comes in from a angle lets say 2 to 7 oclock or 1 to 5 is gonna have a better chance to live although seems most like to try the 6 from underneath which in some rides work but if a guy knows his guns :D will be a bad idea because usually least i can hit from tail then simply jump to the top or waste gun if i have one at the time. 999000 and myself are always a good vol to go to the da if ya like to film a couple of runs would help us out to i think.
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personally i come in from high to the side and aim for the wing tip or the back end, but when you got a lanc come in from anywhere but dead six and you should be fine.
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Originally posted by kj714
Whats your secret?
why should i share? :D
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beet1e im gonna show 68aces that film for ya and i think ill create a new post. good job though!:aok
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Bostons and the Japanese buffs (ki67?) I haven't really studied these like I have the ones above. I usually just 'default' to the high slashing attack on these.
You should study them a bit. Both of these plane types have gun "Blind spots" that will enable you to kill them at your leisure, w/out receiving return fire.
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
beet1e im gonna show 68aces that film for ya and i think ill create a new post. good job though!:aok
OK, better edit out my evil laugh! 68aces did have the good grace to give me an :aok
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That evil laught make you a good candidate for the Abbeville dweeb ... errr kids :p
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Originally posted by CavemanJ
Bostons and the Japanese buffs (ki67?) I haven't really studied these like I have the ones above. I usually just 'default' to the high slashing attack on these.
all other tips ok, but my tip is NEVER come in high on a KI67......its 20mm cannon (i think) in the top turret will turn any plane into a fireball without wings........
Host: Overlag has landed 7 victories in Ki67 ;)
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Originally posted by Steve
You should study them a bit. Both of these plane types have gun "Blind spots" that will enable you to kill them at your leisure, w/out receiving return fire.
Yes, I should. But I've gotten lazy :aok
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My favorite tactic is to fly straight and level. Set up so that your flight path is perpendicular to the bombers(Make sure you're going reasonably fast), but so that you'll cross thier flight path only a moment after the bomber passes. You get a beautiful point blank shot on the bombers, while forcing the gunner to continually have to track you in thier sights.