Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: AKcurly on April 17, 2004, 01:56:59 AM
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President Bush secretly ordered an Iraq war plan, says a new book by Bob Woodward.
WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush secretly ordered a war plan drawn up against Iraq less than two months after U.S. forces attacked Afghanistan and was so worried the decision would cause a furor he did not tell everyone on his national security team, says a new book on his Iraq policy.
Full article at
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/04/16/iraq.woodward.ap/index.html
curly
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Good catch...
It was so secret he only told world-famous reporter and author Bob Woodward and a few trusted aides...
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Good catch...
It was so secret he only told world-famous reporter and author Bob Woodward and a few trusted aides...
:rolleyes:
Lol grun. Somehow I suspect he told Woodward only after Woodward demonstrated he had the goods. Ya think Georgie didn't want to cross swords with Woodward? Ya think maybe he didn't want to be in the same position as Nixon or Clinton? Lie after lie after lie, only to reach the point of no return?
It's been obvious for a long time the entire Iraq war was based on prevarications cooked up by Bush and crew. It's especially obvious the WMD stuff was cooked up by that wonderful pair of chefs Rumsfield and Cheney.
OTOH, do I like the outcome? You bet, Saddam and sons are history and that's great. But lying so he could reach this goal? History isn't going to be kind to him. He's a lying scoundrel.
curly
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Originally posted by AKcurly
History isn't going to be kind to him.
Ya think?! :eek:
(just being a wise-arse... of course I agree)
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It's especially obvious the WMD stuff was cooked up by that wonderful pair of chefs Rumsfield and Cheney.
Never mind that France, Germany, the U.N., and Clinton all said Iraq had WMD. Ignore that completely, it makes it easier to blame Bush.
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Originally posted by Steve
Never mind that France, Germany, the U.N., and Clinton all said Iraq had WMD. Ignore that completely, it makes it easier to blame Bush.
Yup, and completely ignore that Bush and crew have told lie after lie. Keep that head in the sand -- you'll be more comfortable there. :)
curly
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OMG military plans were kept secret?
OMG!!!
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Better in the sand than in one's rectum. Any polyps in there?
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Originally posted by Steve
Better in the sand than in one's rectum. Any polyps in there?
Heh, Steve. :)
curly
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
OMG military plans were kept secret?
OMG!!!
I'm sure you will correct me if I'm wrong Funky, but didn't we all hear Bush deny sometime ago exactly what he's saying now?
Weren't we all led to believe the Iraq invasion was based on a CIA intelligence (flawed, but there it was.)
And now we learn that Bush's plan to invade Iraq predated the intelligence report? That he in fact instructed Rumsfield to draw up a war plan?
You don't think old Rumsfield & Cheney might have put a little spin on the report do you? I suppose Tenet's confession that "well, we got it wrong" or Condi's performance doesn't remind you of 50 cats, all with diarhhea, 25 out scouting for new territory, 25 covering up the old territory?
Nah, this is all just an honest mistake.
curly
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We have found Rip's alter ego:lol
Go Curly! But you must cut&paste the entire article........slacker!
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What's up with the posts curly... is bush threatening to cut medicare or something?
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Originally posted by Mini D
What's up with the posts curly... is bush threatening to cut medicare or something?
Curly retired in December and his portfolio is taking a beating. ;)
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Good catch...
It was so secret he only told world-famous reporter and author Bob Woodward and a few trusted aides...
:rolleyes:
lol...well to be fair I did read about the US "secret plot" to assasinate Sadaam on Yahoo News a while back.
:D
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If you've already got some info that connects Iraq to supporting terrorists, what is wrong with going ahead and creating a battle plan so you're ready when the time comes? Isn't that called "preparation"?
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Originally posted by Cougar68
If you've already got some info that connects Iraq to supporting terrorists, what is wrong with going ahead and creating a battle plan so you're ready when the time comes? Isn't that called "preparation"?
:aok
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Our war on terror begins with al Qaida, but it does not end there. . . . we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime. . . President George W. Bush, Joint Session of Congress, September 20, 2001
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Saddam Hussein is paying $25,000 to the relatives of Palestinian suicide bombers -- a $15,000 raise much welcomed by the bombers' families. In Tulkarm, one of the poorest towns on the West Bank, a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council handed out the checks from Saddam. The payments have been made for at least two years, but the amount has suddenly jumped up by $15,000 -- a bonus for the families of 'martyrs', to reward those taking part in the escalating war against Israel. . . . Fox News, March 26, 2002
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This general served Saddam Hussein for decades. Along with another Iraqi defector, Sabah Khodada (see below), the general tells of terrorists training in a Boeing 707 resting next to railroad tracks on the edge of Salman Pak, an area south of Baghdad. The existence of the plane has been confirmed by U.N. inspectors. The general describes the men who trained there, the camp's security, and his "gut feeling" that the camp was in some way tied to the Sept. 11 attacks. Iraqi Lt. General, PBS and New York Times Interview, November 6, 2001
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A captain in the Iraqi army from 1982 to 1992, he worked at what he describes as a highly secret terrorist training camp at Salman Pak, an area south of Baghdad. In this translated interview Khodada describes what went on at Salman Pak, including details on training hijackers. He emigrated to the U.S. in May 2001. Sabah Kodada, Iraqi Army Captain, PBS and New York Times Interview, October 14, 2001
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An investigation by Frontline confirmed that Iraqi intelligence had trained at least forty Islamic terrorists between 1995 and 2000 in how to hijacking airliners using a Boeing-747 that was originally Kuwaiti property. Frontline, PBS, November 14, 2001
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Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of American citizens. . . . Congressional Resolution Authorizing Force Against Iraq, October 15, 2002
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Shortly before the Sept. 11 attacks, a group of al-Qaida fighters left Afghanistan and set up shop in Iraq as a backup base, according to a report in today‘s Los Angeles Times. Osama bin Laden‘s jihadists established such a base in town of Al Biyara and nearby mountain villages where Kurdish militants had begun imposing the strict Islamic rule much like Afghanistan‘s ousted Taliban regime, according to the Times report. While this base is further evidence of Saddam Hussein‘s recent support of al-Qaida, documented by many intelligence sources over the last 10 years, Iraq is attempting to maintain plausible deniability with regard to the bases – suggesting they are outside the control of the government in Baghdad. Intelmessages.com and Los Angeles Times, December 9, 2002
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The British also released a dossier on Iraq which claimed that at least two key Al-Qaeda lieutenants underwent training inIraq. The dossier also confirmed that Iraq was paying Al-Qaeda to use its Ansar forces based in northern Iraq to attack the Kurdish forces. Reuters, September 14, 2002
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Simply no basis for action ;)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Curly retired in December and his portfolio is taking a beating. ;)
John Kerry will fix it!!!! He will make 10 billion jobs!!!! Beacuse raising taxes, regulations, protectionism and support of failing obsolete industries has always been proven to create jobs and economic success!!!!
Kerry is a genious!!!
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
John Kerry will fix it!!!! He will make 10 billion jobs!!!! Beacuse raising taxes, regulations, protectionism and support of failing obsolete industries has always been proven to create jobs and economic success!!!!
Kerry is a genious!!!
Are you saying another 90's-style Tech boom is in the future?(In India?!) ;)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Are you saying another 90's-style Tech boom is in the future?(In India?!) ;)
Common Rip, stop the jokes!!!
The future of american economic proseperity is in manufacturing!!! The 21st century will be the century of steel, machine tools, clothing, and anything else made in the vitally contested struggling midwest manufacturing states this election year!!! Not some sort of new fangled "corporate" innovation like computers or biotech...
Mark my words, the America of the 21st century will be built by manufacturing!!!!
VOTE KERRY 2004!!!!!
"Bravely Bringing America into the 19th Century!!!"
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geeze curly.. yer starting to become the stereotype liberal socialist academic. Ol woodard allmost disapeared off the face of the map when klinton was in eh?
lazs
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The crux of this matter is that 700 million dollars was taken from the Afghan appropriation and diverted to Iraq war preparation.
Doing so without congressional authorization is going to be a point of contention in the comming weeks.
If this was taken out of the suplemental appropriation then it took monies from humanitarian and economic assistance funds for Afghanistan.
I'll wait until the story developes more before personaly forming an opinion.
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Originally posted by MrLars
Doing so without congressional authorization is going to be a point of contention in the comming weeks.
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Er, coming months...its Election year! :) No worries, now that the 9/11 commission events have turned into a witch-hunting farce, the democrats will be sure to make mountains out of mole hills as they shift their tactics to other current events.
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Why is it anyone who opposes the Irag occupation is labeled a "liberal?" Can't we oppose going to war against tinhorn dictators and still be a moderate, or maybe even have some conservative viewpoints too?
Oh, GREAT cun n paste, Rip, another brilliant debate straight from the depths of your mind.
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Originally posted by Airhead
Oh, GREAT cun n paste, Rip, another brilliant debate straight from the depths of your mind.
I know that facts bother you. Just put me on ignore and you won't have to see them.
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Originally posted by Airhead
Why is it anyone who opposes the Irag occupation is labeled a "liberal?" Can't we oppose going to war against tinhorn dictators and still be a moderate, or maybe even have some conservative viewpoints too?
Basically conveniance.
Plus its an election year, and in truth probably most of the oppsition to the Iraq war is really a mask for people's dislike/concern regarding Bush. And since he is the conservative candidate this year, his general opponnts could be termed liberals in the context of tyhe election.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Er, coming months...its Election year! :) No worries, now that the 9/11 commission events have turned into a witch-hunting farce, the democrats will be sure to make mountains out of mole hills as they shift their tactics to other current events.
Moving money to a special project w/o congressional approval is hardly a molehill Rip. It is serious business circumventing the constitution like this seems to be....VERY SERIOUS.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I know that facts bother you. Just put me on ignore and you won't have to see them.
You don't present facts, you present a recap of the Rush Limbaugh radio show- and now that you've surpassed the 25,ooo post mark (at a minimum) between the various Boards and shades accounts you have you post automatically, without thought- like Pavlov's dog.
By all means tho carry on. It might take another 25,000 posts but I'm sure that eventually you might change the political viewpoint of one poster.
:aok
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Originally posted by Airhead
change the political viewpoint of one poster.
Thats an intriguing question, have any of our discussions ever changed somebody's political outlook?
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Do I have to keep posting this untill you libs realize that Bush was working off of your information.
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998.
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.
"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998.
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998.
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998.
"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destrution and palaces for his cronies."
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999.
"There is no doubt that . Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, Dec, 5, 2001.
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
Sen. Carl Levin (d, MI), Sept. 19, 2002.
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seing and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002.
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002.
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002.
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years . We also should remember we have alway s underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Jay Rockerfeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002,
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do."
Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002.
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction. "[W]ithout question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he has continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ...
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003.
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To not have a war plan would be stupid.
The UN probably never had a war plan to make Iraq comply, I'll bet their plan was to author yet another resolution.
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I would bet there is a plan for North Korea, Syria, Iran, and maybe China if they decide to take Taiwain.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Thats an intriguing question, have any of our discussions ever changed somebody's political outlook?
Not changed, necessarily, but depending upon who the poster is I've quite often listened to and thought about their message, and can appreciate where they're coming from.
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Rip, minid,
Nah, but I guess with my increasing decrepitude my physical robustness is falling off. Old Clinton sort of screwed up my immune system and now georgie is having to pay the consequences -- I am really allergic to liars now.
curly
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The UN would never have an Iraq war plan, it would interfer with the cut UN officials were getting from the oil for food programs.
Hans job was to keep everybody happy so the money would keep rolling in... When they look deep enough they will find Blix on Saddams pay roll as well..
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Hans job was to keep everybody happy so the money would keep rolling in... When they look deep enough they will find Blix on Saddams pay roll as well..
A hunch, or can you somehow substantiate this?
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Originally posted by VOR
A hunch, or can you somehow substantiate this?
Obvious conclusion
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Obvious conclusion
Thanks, that's all I needed to know.
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"President Bush secretly ordered a war plan drawn up against Iraq "
Good for him......
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Originally posted by AKcurly
I am really allergic to liars now.
Then you're gonna want to avoid both politics and the news from here on out.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Steve
Never mind that France, Germany...all said Iraq had WMD.
I've seen this time and time again, and have never seens an actual quote supporting it. Can you prove this Steve?
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Originally posted by Mini D
Then you're gonna want to avoid both politics and the news from here on out.
MiniD
Yah, you're probably right. OTOH, if I just add more fiber to my diet, it might flush those turds out of the system. ;)
curly
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Originally posted by AKcurly
Yup, and completely ignore that Bush and crew have told lie after lie. Keep that head in the sand -- you'll be more comfortable there. :)
curly
LMAO and you tell us which administration hasnt told us lie after lie after lie.
They ALL lie doesnt matter which party or president it is
Aint no monopoly going on here
It just that Bush and crew are the ones lieing at the moment.
when there is a new administration in there be they Republican, Democrat or Independant. THEY will lie too.
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Yes I could Thrawn, check addresses/speeches to the U.N. No offense intended it's just that it's late and I played paintball all day.... too tired to look it up myself. :)
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Do us a favour then and post your sources when yer well rested?
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Originally posted by Nash
Do us a favour then and post your sources when yer well rested?
I admit I am drunk off my arse and going to bed.... but tomorrow I will try to get sources fer ya Nash,
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Have fun. ;)
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
LMAO and you tell us which administration hasnt told us lie after lie after lie.
Well, I don't remember Truman lying much (althought I was pretty young then); I don't remember Eisenhower, Ford or Carter lying either although Ford and Carter may well have lied by selectively telling us the truth.
Right now, it appears we won't have much of a choice though. :)
curly
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curly... your **** comment... did you actually say that less government would be better? I agree if you did.
lazs
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does the AK stand for "Admire Kerry" Curly? :)
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Originally posted by AKcurly
Well, I don't remember Truman lying much (althought I was pretty young then); I don't remember Eisenhower, Ford or Carter lying either although Ford and Carter may well have lied by selectively telling us the truth.
Welcome to the dawn of the internet. I'll tell you one thing, we haven't been lied to nearly as much as the internet says we have. Someone makes a statement, and 8 different sites pop up with different slants on how it's a "lie". Time goes on, the lies usually don't pan out, but the person is still percieved as a liar... not the people that falsely reported the "lie". I don't doubt the same would have happened with every single administration throughout U.S. history if the same reporting methods were used.
Sports got alot less fun to watch when people started over anylizing everything. The same thing is happening in politics, but most seem to think this is a good thing. I definately don't share that sentiment.
I've also noticed a change in belief as to why we elect someone. It seems it used to be that we elected leaders that would best represent us. Now, we elect leaders that we feel will do what we tell them. It's almost as if the entire country has forgotten what a leader is... and why they just elect one person and not a committee.
I don't know... politics has become a sore subject for me too... but not necessarily because of any one side of the fence, and definately not because it's all the government's fault.
MiniD
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Originally posted by AKcurly
President Bush secretly ordered an Iraq war plan, says a new book by Bob Woodward.
WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush secretly ordered a war plan drawn up against Iraq less than two months after U.S. forces attacked Afghanistan and was so worried the decision would cause a furor he did not tell everyone on his national security team, says a new book on his Iraq policy.
Full article at
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/04/16/iraq.woodward.ap/index.html
curly
Here's news for you Curly. Clinton secretly had a war plan to nuke North Korea.
http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20041107-055605-6954r.htm
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Originally posted by GScholz
Umm ... are you bored Rip?
No, just exposing hipocrasy. Thats my job. :)
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Wow a 7 month old thread brought up from the gutter to add a post that clearly states if the country attacked South Korea.
Compared to, well... Iraq.
-SW
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No, what completely went over your head was...every president has "war plans" drawn up in advance, for sitution X happens, Y result will be employed. Bush was not an exception to the rule in Iraq.
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Ahem, Here is a clue. A contingency plan for just about every conceivable conflict situation is drawn up by every administration. Particular hot spots such as the middle east are always top on the list since they are most likely to happen. This is standard planning at the strategic level. They are kept on file at the Pentagon and other appropriate strategic HQ's.
There were plans for reactions to a Soviet invasion at the Fulda Gap and other places in Europe. Contingency plans for all types of conflict in all areas (even France :rolleyes: ) are on file. All are reveiwed and updated as needed or as situations change. It is not preplanning for a preemptive strike, it is contingency planning.
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No, not really over my head Ripsnort.
Just observing those situations that would lead to war. One is justified, the other is questionable at best.
-SW
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Originally posted by AKcurly
Yup, and completely ignore that Bush and crew have told lie after lie. Keep that head in the sand -- you'll be more comfortable there. :)
curly
OK, let's nix the outright lies with Monica Lewinsky. Tit for tat (no pun intended).
Karaya
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Here's news for you Curly. Clinton secretly had a war plan to nuke North Korea.
http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20041107-055605-6954r.htm
Was this before or after Clinton's selling of technology to the Chinese? :rofl You liberals never get tired of stepping from one bucket of ***** to the next.
Karaya