Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: stachel on January 02, 2000, 09:56:00 AM
-
i would like the field acks to be tuned down to a realistic level ,otherwise the bomb and rocket loadouts(fighters) we have now can't be used (simply no way to survive the laser guided acks during a JABO attack).
this also makes field capture a bit easier because ack hugging won't be(such a good) option .
i'd really like to do some mud moving !!,right now that is just impossible
-
I like to fly B17 missions, but I'm having a real tough time in finding ack's position on the field. I have to wait until they start to fire (which isn't very good for a B17). Is there anyway to see them without thier firing.
------------------
Sledriver
(The MAD BOMBER)
-
I don't know if it is the accuracy of the AAA that is out of line so much as it is the response time. Last night a m8 and I made a canyon run nap of the earth flight in fully laden F4Us never once peeping up on dar. As we come out on the valley floor we went to wep and prepared to throw the ol bed pan into the tower of this bish base. The first indication that navigation was on target was the Ack firing at me! Now this was a undefended base that was being attacked by A/C coming in under radar and we were taking hits just as we could see the base itself. Wouldn't you think that there should be some sort of response time to an attack? Great gunners i can live with, but they ought to have to sleep or eat or take a leak sometimes ;-)
JimBear
-
maybe they should also reload once in a while
-
Stachel
The 17s need a purpose, if the fighters could bomb all the time, they would. With the ack this accurate you have to get some of your buddies up in some 17s to take out ack, then you go in and straf or bomb with your fighter :-) You'll notice in the arena there are numerous 17s in the air all the time.. just find out where they are heading.
Sledriver
If you look hard enough you'll see them :-). At that point if you can't, check out these sites for maps.
http://bombergroup.com (http://bombergroup.com)
http://glarsmaps.warbirds.org (http://glarsmaps.warbirds.org)
Hope this helps!
Central
Dickweed FG
-
I see too many vultures diving in and out of bases with ack up to believe that the acks are too accurate. Right now you know exactly how many ack there are, exactly where they are and exactly when they will come back up after being destroyed. I don't see why things should be made even easier for attackers.
I'm hoping the addition of ground toops will enable a country to even fortify air bases more so than the default setup allows.
AKDejaVu
-
well I'm sittin here to tell you that you CAN make a successful attack through the ack. I was launching from (I think) field 20 in a B17 and an F4U comes diving in at the field, right down the runway, right at me. He rips the wings off me bird and continues on through, with all 3 guns firing away at him. Looked back but dinnae see any smoke trailing from that hawg either
-
I would rather see TWICE the number of ack being about one third as accurate. That would be better then the current situation IMO.
I enjoy going in heavy, fast and low but havent been able to survive long enough to draw a bead on anything.
As far as heavy bombers are concerned, there are plenty of folk who love flying these things and dont need a reason in any event.
Yeager
-
"The 17s need a purpose,"
Central, you seem to be saying that we should have unrealistic AAA so that our B-17's can perform unrealistic tasks (taking out individual AAA emplacements from 40k).
The ack in this game is a joke, and the designers know it and intend to fix it.
-
Funked
Its not a matter of having realistic ack or not.
The point was you as an individual can not get into a base and bomb it with your fighter (reminds me too much of brand x). It leaves it to the 17s, giving them their purpose (it is a WWII sim right? which plane is widely known from that time? 17 no?).
Now, that leaves some sour with why allow only one gunner? What if I get bounced? Point there is to organize multi-plane sorties (17s in tight formation) to provide the support they need. There after and only then can the fighters go in and rip some sh*t up. ;-D
Just my thoughts :-)
and if anyone from HTC can clear it up, please do.
Central
Dickweed FG
http://bombergroup.com (http://bombergroup.com)
[This message has been edited by Central (edited 01-02-2000).]
-
Somthing to consider in this thread......
In another thread, Pyro stated that the current base AAA's are pretty much just place holders. They intend to work on the AAA some more, later.
I have tried many times to take out base acks with heavy figters. I can do it about 65% of the time, but recieve damage and have to ditch or immediately get splashed 95% of the time. It is a mission I do not fly home from very often.
At this time, I am not really sure which size bomb is required. I usually take 1,000 pounders, cause I figure the bigger the "BOOM" the bigger the "BOOM". (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
So far, I have not hit "DihdlyDooDah" with rockets, wether it be on the ground or in the air.
All that ordanance looks really cool in the hanger. The weapons that are made mostly out of lead, work really good!
Remember this is Beta. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Mino
-
Hi guys,
Central, I have been told that an AA gun shows up on the screen as a little white dot. Now that I know, they won't live long. I also have picked up the mapsfrom Thunder. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) As far as accuracy goes, B17's don't care. We should be high enough not to even worry about it. It's the enemy attackers that get me. It is extremely tough to be a gunner, and at the same time trying to locate our target and eliminate it. Even with a gunner, I find the biggest problem is the B17 seems to be made out of paper and wood. They are falling apart way to easy, if you ask me. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) Put more AA's on the field. It don't matter to me. Just more targets to pick off. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Oh as far as purpose goes, the B-17's job is to knock out all enemy offensive installations, so our C-47 can get in there and capture the base. The fighters should be protecting us with everything they got, to ensure our success. Right now, most fighters are there just to dogfight. The Bishops seem to be a lot more organized then the rooks and it shows.
------------------
Sledriver
(The MAD BOMBER)
-
Someone should tell those B17's launching from vultched bases about their light construction! Those guys always take 2-3 with them when they launch.
As for fighter interception, you can easily climb to alts where you are untouchable. The only limit is the time you have to spend. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I don't buff all that much, but when I do I take the time to get up. A high bomber has nothing to fear from fighters.
-
Exactly Dolomite, but who wants to spend tons of time climbing up there, spend 5 seconds releasing, then tons 'o' time climbing back down. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) So therefore, we need fighter interception. The fighters should like it, I guarentee them lots of action (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
Sledriver
(The MAD BOMBER)
-
hmmmm... I wonder how lone b-17's fared against a lone fighter in WW2... much less 2 fighters.
The b-17 is overmodeled in every non-aerodynamic aspect. From gunners to bombing accuracy.
AKDejaVu
[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 01-03-2000).]
-
AKDejaVu;
Actually surpizingly enough, bombers had a higher kill per sortie ratio then the fighters did (Allied).
B-17 23 kills per 1000 sorties. (Propaganda edge)
B-24 22 kills per 1000 sorties.
All fighters 11 kills per 1000 sorties.
Go figure...
Mino
-
Once again.. how many of those kills were done by solo B-17's at low alt?
-
Makes perfect sense (to me). The Luftwaffe avoided Allied fighters as much as possible later in the war, and concentrated on the 4-engine heavies. Early on they avoided "Rodeos" if they identified them, just like the RAF ignored the "Frei-jagd" in BoB. Therefore the bombers would be much more likely to encounter fighter opposition - and thus they shot down more per sortie.
-
Sledriver-
5 seconds to drop? If you take the 12x500 load you can easily level a base, but it takes much longer than 5 seconds. You'll have to make several passes, and that gives the fighters time to climb. You'll want that height.
My experience on both sides of the bomber issue is if you can avoid letting a fighter getting 2-3k above you, or avoid coordinated attacks from 2 quarters, you most likely will live. If a fighter can make a high angle, high speed pass you are done for.
-
In WWII lone bombers were "easy meat". Thats why they flew in formation. Because of those large formations and the fact that several gunners on different planes were shooting at each bomber lead to overclaiming by large amounts. ie 1 fighter claimed by 5 gunners on 4 different bombers.
-
I like the "Circus" idea: up to 24 squadrons of Hurri's and Spit's escorting about 6 bombers. That ought to keep 'em safe. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-
You guys haven't brought up the most obvious reason bombers had the highest kill per sortie ratio.
Inaccurate claims.
It is a well known fact that due to the way that bombers flew in mass formations, many gunners claimed the same kill, often as many as 4 or 5 gunners claiming the same kill.
Yes Bomber Command made some effort to sort out kills, but they also turned a blind eye towards the multiple claims practice since it helped keep up morale in the face of horrendous losses they were taking.
I read in one book where they did an indepth study of one bombing raid, and analyzed the kill claims from the gunners.
The gunners ended up claiming over 80 kills of german fighters that day.
Then the researchers went back and analyzed the German records for the same day.
The Germans lost like 6 fighters that day, with around 12 more heavily damaged and later scrapped.
In TOTAL, the entire attacking German fighter force had less fighters in the air that day, than the US Bomber gunners claimed to have shot down.
And I am sure this "kill inflation" happened on all sides of the war.
[note: the above numbers are estimates from my memory of the article I read, so please don't quote numbers from some book that I was inaccurate in my statement]
------------------
Vermillion
WB's: (verm--), **MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires ;) "
-
Uhh, Verm...
Because of those large formations and the fact that several gunners on different planes were shooting at each bomber lead to overclaiming by large amounts. ie 1 fighter claimed by 5 gunners on 4 different bombers.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-
Hey Verm,
Yeah, kinda like the Germans claiming numerous kills on Spits, when the whole time Spits used pre-planned stalls/spins in order to evade bogey. Tricking them in thinking they got the kill, hoping the axis wouldnt dive and finish the kill.
Too much Combatsim for me :-)
Central
Dickweed FG
http://bombergroup.com (http://bombergroup.com)
-
Gee, just like the RAF claiming kills on Bf109's that did an "abschwung" with full power to escape. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)