Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sandman on April 20, 2004, 06:48:00 PM
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Boys, you really need to clean up your act.
I spent Sunday GeoCaching around the El Paso Mountains here. It seemed that everywhere I looked, there were old cans, old bottles, old propane bottles, old refridgerators, you name it... and every single one of them was all shot to hell.
I'm all for your right to go out into the wilderness or desert and shoot at targets (or whatever), but it sure would be nice if you didn't leave the garbage behind.
Yes, I do realize that some neanderthals believe it's perfectly okay to drag their **** into the desert and leave it simply because the nearest landfill is four miles further down the road, but hey... I didn't leave the crap and I didn't shoot at it either.
Besides... there is a limit to how much I can carry out.
Edit: It might not be YOU. It might be one of your brethren. Maybe you can talk to 'em.
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It might also being someone shooting trash they see in the desert...
But hell, blame it on the gun owners...
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Bodhi
But hell, blame it on the gun owners...
:rolleyes:
Uh..... who else would be shooting it to hell?
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Originally posted by Bodhi
It might also being someone shooting trash they see in the desert...
But hell, blame it on the gun owners...
:rolleyes:
(http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbs.gif)
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Originally posted by hawker238
Uh..... who else would be shooting it to hell?
It is not the gun that shoots the trash,
it's the owner.
Every citizen has the right to bear firearms and defend him, his family and property of any trash that might be out in the desert waiting to harm him...
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Originally posted by Bodhi
It might also being someone shooting trash they see in the desert...
But hell, blame it on the gun owners...
:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
As I said. It might not be the gun owners dragging it out.
But... after you're done shooting at it, why not pick it up?
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Originally posted by Sandman
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But... after you're done shooting at it, why not pick it up?
Why should we pick up after an irresponsible liberals, most likely drugged up, possibly left it out there in the first place? Of course, it might not be YOU. It might be one of your brethren. Maybe you can talk to 'em. :D :p
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So now it's a liberal/conservative thing.
Thanks for playing Rip. I can always count on you to be predictable.
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LOL, Pot meet Kettle.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Boys, you really need to clean up your act.
I spent Sunday GeoCaching around the El Paso Mountains here. It seemed that everywhere I looked, there were old cans, old bottles, old propane bottles, old refridgerators, you name it... and every single one of them was all shot to hell.
I'm all for your right to go out into the wilderness or desert and shoot at targets (or whatever), but it sure would be nice if you didn't leave the garbage behind.
Yes, I do realize that some neanderthals believe it's perfectly okay to drag their **** into the desert and leave it simply because the nearest landfill is four miles further down the road, but hey... I didn't leave the crap and I didn't shoot at it either.
Besides... there is a limit to how much I can carry out.
Edit: It might not be YOU. It might be one of your brethren. Maybe you can talk to 'em.
What are you some kind of commie environmentalist wacko??
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perhaps the owner of the refrigerator was also shot up and inside of it. did you look? go in and check it out. oh, and don't forget to close the door behind you.
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Originally posted by strk
What are you some kind of commie environmentalist wacko??
If commie environmentalist wackos are the only ones that can recognize a blight on the landscape, I guess so.
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Originally posted by storch
perhaps the owner of the refrigerator was also shot up and inside of it. did you look? go in and check it out. oh, and don't forget to close the door behind you.
Back from the banning I see.
Didn't miss ya one bit. :p
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I've been wanting to go Geocaching, but I keep finding better things to spend my money on than a GPS. What's the most interesting thing you've found in a cache?
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You probably weren't shooting at me, besides I ain't worried you couldn't hit the broadside of yourself with a 12ga. at 3m. have a nice day.
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Originally posted by SOB
I've been wanting to go Geocaching, but I keep finding better things to spend my money on than a GPS. What's the most interesting thing you've found in a cache?
Actually not too much. I've grabbed a couple F22 and F/A-18 patches, but for the most part, I'm more interested in getting to the cache and simply finding it rather than seeing what is inside it.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
snip.... :D :p
LOST:
Sense of humor. Belonging to a former supporter of George McGovern. If found, please call 1-800-Sandmanasleep.
Seriously, go on a trip to India, then report back how mankind can litter without carrying a gun...:rolleyes:
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Or... I could try 1-800-sandmanisawakeenoughtoknowmcgovernranforpresidentin1972andhewasonlytenatthetime.
:p
Oh... and this just in... I don't give a rat's bellybutton about India. :)
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Originally posted by Sandman
Actually not too much. I've grabbed a couple F22 and F/A-18 patches, but for the most part, I'm more interested in getting to the cache and simply finding it rather than seeing what is inside it.
Yeah, that goes without saying, but I think when I finally end up doing this, I'm going to constantly be on the lookout for weird crap to add to the cache. :)
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Originally posted by SOB
Yeah, that goes without saying, but I think when I finally end up doing this, I'm going to constantly be on the lookout for weird crap to add to the cache. :)
Now that would be a cool thing. :)
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It always goes back to the gun owners.
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Originally posted by Sandman
:rolleyes:
As I said. It might not be the gun owners dragging it out.
But... after you're done shooting at it, why not pick it up?
Pick it up?... After you're done shooting... it now has all those sharp edges where the bullets came out!
goaly
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This Thread Has Been Hijacked
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They still allow guns in Kalifornia? Give it a couple more years and all yer trash will go unmolested.
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Couldn't you just put the refrigerator and stuff in the cache? Then the finders would have something to take?
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Originally posted by Thud
It is not the gun that shoots the trash,
it's the owner.
Every citizen has the right to bear firearms and defend him, his family and property of any trash that might be out in the desert waiting to harm him...
ROFL!
:lol
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maybe if you antigunutjobs would stop closing down all the public ranges people wouldnt need to drive out to nowheresville just to pop some rounds off.
Ya I agree people should clean up there own trash.
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ya know... I do agree with sandie on this. in the old days when there were a lot of open places to shoot, guys would leave a mess when they were done. this got a lot of places closed and fenced off..
Now.. mostly the trash was there allready but it don't get any prettier after it's shot up... everyojne I know leaves a place better than when they found it.
dump sites are the place to shoot if you like to shoot trash and not pick it up afterwards..
taking a computer or appliance out and dumping it and then riddling it with holes and leaving it behind is simply rude crap.
I would say tho that shooters are probly less litter prone than the average person... most of the trash you see lying around everywhere wasn't put there by shooters still.... doesn't hurt to clean up a little even if it wasn't your stuff.
Gun clubs used to sponsor cleanups of areas that were used to shoot.
lazs
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Originally posted by Toad
Couldn't you just put the refrigerator and stuff in the cache? Then the finders would have something to take?
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Sandman/SOB... What do you guys mean cache? Patches? Arm patches laying on in the desert?? wtf? lol im lost...
dude
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I carried out as much garbage as I could- what I was forced to leave behind I shot.
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http://www.geocaching.com/
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wow dude.. they are everywhere! I do a lot of hiking, but this is a new one on me.. haha
thanks!!
dude
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Originally posted by Airhead
I carried out as much garbage as I could- what I was forced to leave behind I shot.
Don't want this one to get missed... it's the only decent post here.
When I go out shooting, I clean up everything. The only thing left behind would be bullet fragments. When I go camping, I also clean up everything. When I go hiking, I try not to destroy the countryside or intrude on nature in general.
I can't say the same for everyone that does the same thing, for I have seen proof to the contrary on many occasions. The truth is, some people just don't care about anything but themselves... be they gun owners, campers, hikers, bikers, bicyclists, smokers or what have you.
On a separate note: Oregon is very much into the "wetlands" scene right now. Something that came as quite a shock was the discovery that using old tires and appliances (very sparingly of course) was a great way to povide excelent wildlife habitats in addition to the normal fallen logs and stumps. Now, when they go in to actually try to develop a habitat, they cut down a number of trees and leave them, debark a number more (causes the tree to die) and place are known to place a few apliances in the ponds (though I doubt you'd get many people to acknowledge this).
MiniD
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The 'litter' is the least of our problems.
Nobody has mentioned the Freon that escaped from the refrigerators when the were shot! The Freon! We are all doomed.
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PShaw! You don't clean up your bullet fragments?
Jeez, I send my neighbor's dog downrange to catch those as they happen.
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They "solved" the freon problem by requiring you to pay $100s of dollars to recover it professionally. The same goes for air conditioners. Don't you know anything?
MiniD
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These refrigetators were obviously illegally dumped, so no professional recovery happened.
The place was probably a pristine tropical paradise and the escaping freon turned it into a desert overnite.
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You mean charging exhorbinate fees for something didn't cause people to leap at the opportunity to do it? That it actually inspired them to look for other methods of "illegal" discarding? No way. That goes contrary to everything I was taught at Berkely.
MiniD
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Originally posted by AKIron
They still allow guns in Kalifornia? Give it a couple more years and all yer trash will go unmolested.
< steps to podium >
I'm a Democrat and I own guns, lots of them.
This is one area where I find myself at odds with my party. This year the gun debate has taken a back seat to the goal of reclaiming the WH and some seats in the legeslative branch.
It will surface again to be debated with the passion that is now directed at the primary goal. Those of us that disagree with this particular party stance will be heard and we hopefully will make a difference in the future.
Back to the topic of this thread...
In Santa Barbara there is an unofficial open shooting range in the Los Padres Ntl Forrest in the hills outside of town. The range has a firing line that is some 200ft long that extends 500ft downrange. The local law doesn't bother us there with the exception of when complaints of automatic fire are arise.
People bring all manner of targets to pop and the place realy gets trashed.
Seven years ago we were told that unless some form of regular cleanup is done we'd loose our privilege to shoot there.
What happened was a bit more than expected. A group of us got together and made the first and third Sundays of the month designated cleanup days. Not only did the trash get cleaned up but every two months the berms built up as a lead catchers get sifted and most of the lead removed for recycling. At the firing line the only real problem is with the cheap aluminum casings that nobody wants for reloading and of course 22cal casings. One of the shooters is a parking lot cleaning contractor and his vacuum truck takes care of that problem quite nicely.
In short, you've gotta be responsible and demonstrate your care for the environment if you don't want to have restrictions placed on your shooting privledges by others.
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Agreed.
As gun owners, we have enough people trying to take away our rights as it is. We don't need to give them any more ammo (pun intended).
It also perpetuates the image of gun owners as red-neck slobs. It's ok to be a neck, just don't be a damn slob about it.
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agreed... in sonora they had an area like lars is taliking about and clubs cleaned it up monthly.. unfortunately.. it was closed anyway. but, we need to be good at cleaning up our messes.
lars... I can see no way that being a democrat and gun owner could ever reconcile... you simply have to say that the other things you like about the democrats are worth giving up you firearms rights and those of your fellow citizens.. every democrat elected puts us one step closer to losing our rights... even if they aren't particulary adamant about taking away our rirhts personally they will vote with their bretheren when push comes to shove... they will get their picture snapped (like kerry) with schumer and finestein.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
lars... I can see no way that being a democrat and gun owner could ever reconcile... you simply have to say that the other things you like about the democrats are worth giving up you firearms rights and those of your fellow citizens.. every democrat elected puts us one step closer to losing our rights... even if they aren't particulary adamant about taking away our rirhts personally they will vote with their bretheren when push comes to shove... they will get their picture snapped (like kerry) with schumer and finestein.
lazs
Lazs, what is happening is that the party is slowly changing from the kneejerk reactions to gun violence to an acceptance that we infact NEED to have the freedom to have guns...you can thank GWB for that shifting of thought :)
Not every Dem in office is for gun control and by electing moderate Dems we are forcing the issue back into the box hopefully to be forgotten. The statement by you about more Dems equels less gun rights may have been true years ago but these days that type of talking point is typical of your type of partisan rhetoric that considerably diminishes the validity any point you may be trying to make.
There are some Dems that won't let that particular issue die but, IMO, the vast majority of us want, need and will never give up our firearms. That is the reality that is being dealt with within the party.
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>>Mlars
It would be nice if the Dems got a clue about gun controll, hell the republicans seem to be caving more and more on it.
This issue drives me nuts. It is the same for 4wheelers as well, a few jerks dump garbage and then the state shuts the area down.
The few times I have shot out in the wilderness I have packed out more then I brought in. The same jerks who dump the crap are the ones that whine the loudest when the area is closed down.
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On a side note some of the best habitat that we can create here in our S. Florida marine environment is the use of disposed of electro-domestic items. they make for nice structure that harbor small fish which in turn bring up the big ones. At my folks house in the Florida keys one of the first things we did in 1967 (I was 10 yrs. of age) was take CMUs place them sideways the whole lenght of our newly constructed seawall. a built up lobster condo. for the next 30 years we would arrive there, jump in the water and take our limit in 10 seconds. These CMUs also made great stone crab habitat. this made for a quick and enjoyable supper Friday night so we could go fishing for pelagic species later in the weekend. a little further out in garden cove there was a site where locals dumped fridges, washers, etc. which became a great spot for Mangrove snapper at night and lemon shark during the day.
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The democrats used to represent gun owners then the perverts, socialists (aka closet communists) and athiests took control of the platform and now we have this mess called modern day america.
woohoo WTG!
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
<<>>Mlars
It would be nice if the Dems got a clue about gun controll, hell the republicans seem to be caving more and more on it.
[/B]
A recent poll at a decidedly LW BB showed that:
I have not changed from 2000 to 2004: I am VERY pro-gun: 27%
I have not changed from 2000 to 2004: I am VERY pro-gun-CONTROL: 21%
2000-2004: I have become somewhat more pro-gun; the Busheviks have shown me how important the Right to Keep and Bear Arms is: 14%
2000-2004: I have become somewhat more pro-gun-CONTROL. Gun proliferation is still and issue and it's still wrong: 0 votes
2000-2004: Total Flip-Flop-- was pro-gun-CONTROL, Busheviks have shown me that we must all be armed to the teeth to resist Tyranny (or demonstrate that we can if we have to): 1 vote
2000-2004: Total Flip-Flop: I was pro-gun, but now am pro-gun-CONTROL: 0 votes
I have always been in the center on this issue: gun ownership is good but needs to be regulated: 37%
209 people responded to this unscientific poll. IMO, it shows that the Democratic mindset regarding gun control is changing for the better.
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Mrlars
I have many Democrat friends, and all but one are totaly pro gun, the one is a closet commie, no joke he is full on in love with the idea of commism. Still he is only marginaly antigun.
I think it is more the some of the big name dem politicians like fienstien that are the anti gun ones.
The whole Idea of gun control is so dumb, like banning guns or making them harder to get to law abiding people will change a thing. The laws on the books prove it wont.
I am all for background checks and Fellons not having guns. But thats it.
None of this waiting period BS, I already have guns why should I have to wait, if I was going to go on a killing spree I have enought to do it now.
Why can I not buy more then a gun a month again? Thats going to stop what?
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Why can I not buy more then a gun a month again? Thats going to stop what?
You're preaching to the choir there...I'm with ya.
Hopefully the attitude will change to the point of reversing some of these state laws restricting lawbiding citizens from our right to purchase when and how many, within reason, guns we want.
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Maybe.
Hell I doubt the rabid anti gunners in Cali will see the light any time soo though. :(
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Maybe.
Hell I doubt the rabid anti gunners in Cali will see the light any time soo though. :(
Just remember that the anti-gun faction are a minority, a very vocal minority but a minority nonetheless.
That's why change has to come from within the Democratic party, there are more than a few of us working on this very issue.
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I know man, but with guys like Parrata around here, who keeps doing his best to take our rights away it is hard to not be pissed all the time.
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Originally posted by MrLars
Just remember that the anti-gun faction are a minority, a very vocal minority but a minority nonetheless.
That's why change has to come from within the Democratic party, there are more than a few of us working on this very issue.
Just out of curiosity: are the 'pro-gun' minded more numerous than their opposition in the States?
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It seems that most anti personal freedom people in the US are women and girly men. we do our part to remedy this great tragedy through education. by inviting my daughters and their friends to go shooting with us we have impacted at least a dozen young ladies and help to bring about an open mind to the idea of personal protection. once you teach them that a firearm is just a tool and there is nothing inherently evil about it they actually enjoy themselves. a few have gone on to purchase personal protection weapons for themselves. the girly men are a whole nother story. by far the worst thing the liberals have created in fourty years of social experimentation. these poor misguided gender confused types are actually much harder to reason with than women. proof of which is being constantly presented with these very threads. It would seem that at present, with the exception of the people's republic of kalifornia and union of soviet socialists states of the northeast anti personal freedom legislation is easily defeated. while most states now allow concealed carry, lamentably the majority of the herd er population live within the jurisdictions of the above mentioned nanny republics
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lars... it is good to work to educate democrats on firearms rights but... a waste of time if you continue to vote for them.. most democrat politicians are rabid anti gun and will use the power of being elected against us... the more of them elected the more they feel they have a chance.
Some may even be soft on destroying human rights but... push comes to shove... they are gonna get their picture taken with msss brady and fienstein and shumer and teddy.
a block of democrats writing an official saying that they will no longer vote democrat until the party changes it's view on gun rights is the only way.
They are a minority but they feel they have a mandate amung their people.. they will never feel any different if you continue to vote for em.
lazs
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thud... any candidate for presedent that ran on a platform of changing the second amendment would be slaughtered... those who run on a platform of strengthening it do well.
every terrorist act brings more new firearms owners... every serial killer.. every serial rapist... every crime wave.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
They are a minority but they feel they have a mandate amung their people.. they will never feel any different if you continue to vote for em.
lazs
Yeah Lazs,
Like I'm going to let the rambling rhetorical tripe that you type here sway my opinion on a topic that, for me, requires an educated and informed decision process to form an opinion on what politcal party would be best for me as well as my country.
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Vote for who you like but be assured that every democrat that gets into power is just one step closer to losing our firearms rights.
Most of the other stuff is too complex for us peasants anyway but... everytime I see a nanny law like helmets or seatbelts or scooter or hot rod bans it is a democrat that is behind it... these are tangible provable things... voting records of politicos are tangible evidence.
I don't like the voting records of democrats.. they don't have my interests at heart and they are too big a busybodies.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
everytime I see a nanny law like helmets or seatbelts or scooter or hot rod bans it is a democrat that is behind it.lazs
Is it a bad thing to live till your time has come instead of ending up as a traffic statistic?
WTH is wrong with mandatory helmets and seatbelts?
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what is wrong with em? tell me... what would be wrong with maiking everyone who ever entered water more than 6" deep wear an approved life jaclket?
Nothing is wrong with helmets or seatbelts. I wear them on occassion but... it needs to be my choice. I have no problem with my insurance adding a surrcharge to my preimium for not wearing em.
It used to be that your insurance co would ask you if you wore seatbelts or not and charge accordingly.... same for life insurance if you smoke or overeat... it is pretty simple really.
the point is that you don't want to give up any of your rights or choices to the government unless you absolutely have to.. I don't even see how they can make some drivers wear helmets and not others. I don't even see why they should have any say in it at all.
lazs
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Because if a emergency crew has to be called in to scrape you from the road or from your front window instead of a private towtruck it costs the government and thus eventually all taxpayers. And only because you had to be obstinate and didn't wear a helmet or seatbelt. That is why.
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hmm... what about the firefighters that put out fires started by campers or rescue workers who pull drowned bodies from lakes and rivers or rescue crews who die trying to save mountain climbers or....
get the point? At least you are putting no one in danger when you edon't wear a seatbelt... someone who is maimed for life who would have simply died had he not had a seatbelt and airbag is a drag on my resources.
lazs