Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Urchin on April 21, 2004, 08:34:57 AM
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Never to return I think. Absolutely no emphasis on A2A combat at all. None. The only A2A combat I've seen since I've come back from my latest "break" was incidental to a large horde trying to take a base from a relatively small number of people. Is it possible to be "successful" in this environment? Sure. It is possible to have any fun fights in this environment... no, not really.
Same old stale N1K,Spit, La7, P51 planeset, with the occasional something else thrown in for spice. I don't think I'll be coming back for AH1, but I'll keep paying the subscription and waiting for AH2. Good luck all, and to HT & company, thanks for making what used to be a great game. I guess it just outgrew me.
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Join the club, Urchin. The only reason I still have a subscription is for the special events and the squad ops on Friday night. I still have fun from time to time in the MA, but it's a shame that all of those early war aircraft go unused. The CT is fun, wish more people enjoyed historical matchups as much as I do.
Hopefully AH2 will rekindle the old spirit of when AH was the new kid on the block.
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Unused? There's nothing more satisfying then smashing an La7 with a p40b...
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Hope you return when TOD mode sets in Urch.
Also, let's all gather around and pray that the NPA is one day, recognized and implemented :D
..
Details on my incessant NPA lobbying in the sig .. :D
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Yes, unused. How many F4F-3's and A6M2's do you see running around compared to the usual N1K1/P-51D/LA-7 crowd?
Sure, there are one or two die hards like me and you flying early war aircraft, but the majority fly the latest, fastest, uber-est.
I don't think the game is becoming less simulation minded, I think it's the customer demographic that's changing. More of a gaming crowd than a simulation crowd.
In the future, the simmers will probably end up in Targetware, while the gamers take over AH completely.
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Urchine...
You made your return when Pizza was up. What did you expect?
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In the future, the simmers will probably end up in Targetware, while the gamers take over AH completely
I don't think they have a business model that will allow them to take advantage of state of affairs...BUT...if they do ever get it togeather they could easiliy do to AH what AH did to AW/WB.
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Get IL2 Forgotten Battles and the Ace Expansion Pak, download Hyperlobby and Teamspeak, and go into the dogfight area that meets your setup parameters (full realism or whatever, its all there).
Here, i'll even point you...
IL2 Forgotten Battles Gold (Includes Ace Expansion Pak)
http://store.ubi.com/item.jsp?item=008888681809&usitem=008888681786
Hyperlobby (also need VB5 Runtime)
http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=12
http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=4
Teamspeak
http://www.holdouts.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=1
Enjoy!
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There's nothing more satisfying than encountering a Spitfire Mk IX at 15k while climbing out at 10k in a C.205.
There I was....
I figured he'd do the usual set-up: fly overhead, then dive down from the 6 0'clock position and make a guns pass. Nope. Instead he came straight in so I turned towards him and watched the range counter spin down. I figured he'd break off at the last moment and go into a turn and come around from the 4 o'clock or 7 o'clock angle. Nope. He kept coming straight in at a dive to my face.
So I opened up the cowl guns at d1.5, then the wing cannons at d1.0, and watched his wings pop off. He landed one cannon round on me but nothing broke.
After that I went back on my course and kept climbing, finding a heavy Thunderbolt at 15k cruising in on a base pork run. He pickled his ordinance and tried to get away but I managed to land a cannon round or two in his wing tip and it broke away. I probably could've finished him off mercifully, but I was feeling evil and let him die a lingering death, fighting for control of his plane all the way down.
Then I was mixing it up with a Tempest, ending up down on the deck with the Tempest trying to make a run for safety, when an LA-7 showed up and ended the flight.
There are fights out there on AKDessert, but you just gotta wait for the planets to align just right. Still, I think any map where a fully-loaded Mustang on auto climb, straight in, is at 25k by the time it reaches an enemy base, means the map is too big and the bases too far away.
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Urchin,
I agree, taken a break since November and just started to have a look around in the MA again. Not only is it a dissapointment as far as same old planes squad organised vulching.
But the graphics now are really starting to show their age with AH2 leaving alot to be desired in this regard as well to date.
I might start spending the odd bit of time in the MA again but just to fly something different then then normal planeset and atleast make it makes a change for whoever I come up against.
...-Gixer
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i beleive ive said this before...try the hth...
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Originally posted by gofaster
There's nothing more satisfying than encountering a Spitfire Mk IX at 15k while climbing out at 10k in a C.205.
There I was....
I figured he'd do the usual set-up: fly overhead, then dive down from the 6 0'clock position and make a guns pass. Nope. Instead he came straight in so I turned towards him and watched the range counter spin down. I figured he'd break off at the last moment and go into a turn and come around from the 4 o'clock or 7 o'clock angle. Nope. He kept coming straight in at a dive to my face.
So I opened up the cowl guns at d1.5, then the wing cannons at d1.0, and watched his wings pop off. He landed one cannon round on me but nothing broke.
After that I went back on my course and kept climbing, finding a heavy Thunderbolt at 15k cruising in on a base pork run. He pickled his ordinance and tried to get away but I managed to land a cannon round or two in his wing tip and it broke away. I probably could've finished him off mercifully, but I was feeling evil and let him die a lingering death, fighting for control of his plane all the way down.
Then I was mixing it up with a Tempest, ending up down on the deck with the Tempest trying to make a run for safety, when an LA-7 showed up and ended the flight.
There are fights out there on AKDessert, but you just gotta wait for the planets to align just right. Still, I think any map where a fully-loaded Mustang on auto climb, straight in, is at 25k by the time it reaches an enemy base, means the map is too big and the bases too far away.
Please don;t take this as an attack on you. Its not. You said that there fights outhere but your story describes how you won an HO and killing a heavy jug runner. Nothing about a fight. I am sure the fights are there, but they are kind of hard to find. Again, not attacking you. Just using your story to point out that A2A game play is not very good on Pizza. GV and Buff however is better. So, I fly buffs when Pizza is up.
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I just came back... cursing for comin back when pizza is up...
The reason I took a break... same old same old day in day out.
Looked around last night in the MA to try and find a place on the map where the green bar was close in length to the red bar... no go..
It was people fighting buildings for the most part..
So I took a trip to the CT was good fun for abit, and then a horde descended... well 10-12 planes from one side in one area in CT is a huge horde...
Once they dropped the only FH's within 40miles...
I went to bed..
Dunno how or if this ever can be resolved...
Mebbe smaller servers... i have no clue
SKurj
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Well. I dont know about the rest of you but its the people who make the game what it is. Others do not feel this way, thats fine.
Its the joking around and having a good time regardless if your dying or not that makes the game what it is for me. I can be in the tower chatting away and have just as much fun if I were up in a plane or GV ect.
I do agree. Alot of the game has changed. I was talking to wax about it today before ever reading this post. I think much of the change has to do with how people and players envision the game. Many I think have lost sight of the fact that no matter what they do its always going to be just a game and nothing more. When you try to take it to the next level, and bring the game as close to reality as posible is when people start to lose sight of the fact that this isnt real life. They get upset over small things that mean absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things.
I've tried a few of the other sims out there. IL2 being one of them. When you take into concideration what Aces High has to offer that these other sims do not have, the positives far out weigh the negatives. Just a few of these are the most obvious such as, customer service, tech suport, which are very closely related if not the same. And also the fact that Aces High still has a "small town" atmosphere. One where you know almost everyone and any new players coming into the game can get help from the vets very easily. I have many reasons why I stuck around after more than 2 years of playing. Those are the most prevalant.
Remember one thing and you'll be ok... Its just a game... So have some fun!
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Yes, I realize it is just a game. The problem is that the game just is not fun for me anymore.
When I first started playing this game, the emphasis was on air to air combat. New players died, learned how to fight, then fought and won (or lost, what matters is they fought). Yes, you had a few extra-timid people that typically bore n zoomed, but it wasn't very many. As time went by, and the population increased, the average "skill" of the arena went down. As time continues to pass, the problem (as I see it), continues to get much worse.
When I first started playing, it was possible to take off, fly towards an enemy base, and have a guy take off from that base to meet you. In fact, that was the normal scheme of things. Small fights dominated. A "furball" with 20 guys in it was a big furball. As time passed, and the average "skill level" of individual players went down, this behaviour started to change. Now, you can probably count on one hand the number of enemy planes you see flying by themselves even if you fly the entire day. Instead of small, relatively even fights, there are gigantic lopsided crusades (for lack of a better word).
When I first started playing this game, people took pride in being able to fight. If a particular player was known as a "good stick", it meant he was good at fighting other planes. People like that were approached to be learned from (I know I did my fair share of .join in my first year or so of playing). Now, people not only lack the ability to fight... they take pride in lacking that ability. Instead of relying on themselves, they rely on superior numbers to get kills, and superior speed to run away should they find themselves in a position where don't hold every possible advantage. Even when it is absolutely clear they have no chance of escaping... they don't try to fight. They try to flop around and keep running. This, more than any other factor, is contributing to my overwhelming disgust for this community.
When I first started playing this game, there were actually "communities" within the community. You had a couple squads that flew the P-47, and flew it well. You had a couple squads that were dedicated P-51 fliers. There were several outstanding squads flying LW planes. Of course, you also had squads that flew no particular plane, but just enjoyed one anothers company and so flew together. All of that is gone today. There are no P-47 squads that I know of. They finally came to the realization that the game had gotten to the point where it wasn't possible to fly the P-47 "competitively" and have fun and be successful. There is one dedicated LW squad, that has embraced the "fighting" style encapsulated in the above paragraph. Other than that, there are no dedicated squads that I am aware of, unless you count the squads that are de facto dedicated to the Nik, Spit, and La-7. In short, instead of having groups of people that were recognizable and distinct... there is one mass of people that is just ... there.
In short, I suppose I could just say that AH has changed so drastically in the past three years that it is a completely different game. By the way, Funked, this would probably be a good post for your "Angstonizer 3000" or whatever it was called. It'd fit a little better in this one.
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Originally posted by gofaster
Still, I think any map where a fully-loaded Mustang on auto climb, straight in, is at 25k by the time it reaches an enemy base, means the map is too big and the bases too far away.
This bit of wisdom should be engraved on a brass plaque and given to HT at the next con.
Don't hate me HT, but Go nailed it here.
Originally posted by SKurj
Dunno how or if this ever can be resolved...
Mebbe smaller servers... i have no clue
SKurj
I'd be ecstatic if one of the unused arenas was set up with a decent map, one of the better small ones perhaps, and the early beta "strat" system was installed. In short, I enjoyed the first year (beta) or so of AH "strat" far more than the present system. It promoted good fights and the landgrabbing was a minimized sideshow that merely helped generate fights instead of being the "goal" of the "gameplay".
Won't happen though, as I think HT still believes "splitting the community" is a bad thing.
With 500+ in an arena, I'd think we could afford to split a few off.
Just my .02.
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Originally posted by Urchin
When I first started playing this game, the emphasis was on air to air combat.
You just fail to grasp the beauty of strategerizing, Urchin. How sad. You are missing all the fun you could have by driving a halftrack around, or sailing a boat. And do you get no rush from watching your forty comrades pulverize an enemy base?
Honestly. Kids these days. No appreciation of glory.
- oldman
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I actually had a great night of finding fights on Pizza last weekend. By fights, I mean 1v1 fights. If you just make a conscious effort to avoid the hordes, and up where there's a small enemy darbar (or red dar dot) and no friendlies, you can get some good fights. Although most of the time, I was probably upping to go bounce someone who wanted to pork a VH or a strat target. After they died, they'd usually up again and come looking for me -- good fights there too, even though they were usually in lalas or spits when they came back.
Just bring a lot of gas.
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...but who was there to protect the Many against the Many? The mob became the tyrant...
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So, it is no longer a dueling game. So, there are no longer P-47 squadrons. So people run. I don't get the great disappointment.
Everyone is here for there own reasons. Everyone that is here is ponying up the 15 bucks a month to play. I guess, if someone wants to pay to play then they get to decide how they play. However, hitech can't control how people decide to spend their time while playing the game.
There are things I don't like as well.
Getting ganged
Boom n zoom ponies
Running LA-7s
Kill-shooter
Small maps
etc.
But I still play for those golden moments when it all comes together.
I still find fights with 1 v 1, 1 v 2, 2 v 1 or 2 v 2. However, you can't find those by going to where the action is. You have to hang on the fringes or along the routes between bases. It doesn't take that long, though. If I am anywhere except deep in the rear of friendly territory I can usually find a bandit out there. Lone ones? Well, "fly alone, die alone" so I am not surprised I don't find them all the time. But they are there.
You seem to be looking for some sort of chivalric scenario where two opponents face each other on their trusted steed. That's neat, but you are correct, that is not AH. At least, that is not AH in the MA. But that also wasn't the way WW2 was, so I deal with it.
Still, people fly what they fly or what the mission they are in calls for. They fly what they are comfortable with and can use effectively. Occassionally, they fly something new or different (I do). But you can't fault them because they fly what is popular, what works or whatever the situation calls for.
It isn't the machine, it's the man. Put me in Superman's costume and I am still just plane old me. Sure, some planes perform better that others. But if I guy (or gal) doesn't know how to use is, it won't help. There are no uber planes, just different planes. I get shot down by LA-7s and I get shot done by F4Fs. Vastly different planes, but they still do the job. It's the man (or woman), no matter how you look at it, and it is the man or both ends of the equation to (attack and defender).
I think your problem is with the people in AH, and not AH itself. People don't play the way you think they should and so you are getting upset and taking your toys home. I really can't sympathize with that. But, that is your right and if you are looking for something other than what is being offerred here, I wish you luck.
Please don't take this as a flame, it isn't intended that way. Just observations and opinions :aok
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Pizza map Sux. This map above all others caters to the building battlers and steamrollers. Every time I log in I feel a twinge of embarrassment and disappointment to see all three sides have their steamroller in gear at 3 different points on the map. It's frustrating yet at once amusing when a couple or 3 planes stem the tide of the steamroller only to see it pop up somehwere else where there is no resistance. It's why I love the small maps, there is nowhere for these timid people to hide from me.
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Originally posted by gofaster
Still, I think any map where a fully-loaded Mustang on auto climb, straight in, is at 25k by the time it reaches an enemy base, means the map is too big and the bases too far away.
Problem is, with 500 + people online, if you have a map with bases close to each other, you end up with nothing but front line furballing. This might give some people kicks, but not me...at least, not all the time.
I personally think I 1 sector range from one field to the next is reasonable. I don't know if I have ever seen any baes farther apart that one sector. Maybe there are, but I don't remember seeing them.
I just hate with a passion the small maps. Control of the reset very quickly falls into the hands of the side with the greatest numbers on at the time the map comes up. It is nothing but steam-rolling and furballing. No tactis at all, just: up-kill-die. They get reset in a day or two. And 40 to 50 people furballing over a stinking small field in a stinking small map.
Now, it might be good to make one or two low capacity areana, but leave the MA. Make the low capacity aren have a max capacity of, say 150 to 200. Let all the small maps cycle in there. Low capacity also means low requirements so it wouldn't cost HTC as much to build/maintain. It is unlikely they will do it, but it might be a neat idea. Unfortunately, I think most people will still gravitate to the MA.
Oh well....
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hmmm, well I wasn't around in the good old days. I used to spend this time in the garage working on the toys, but since I got hooked, now everything's falling apart.
But back to the subject at hand.
Yep hordes rule on the big maps. I still find enough fights to make me happy though.
I don't really dig the big missions, everyone fighting for the same scraps.
I still manage to find good fights on the big maps, I just have to look a little harder.
The small maps are much better for the 1v1 and in-duh-vidual stuff. I think as long as the maps are rotated with some thought to this subject, everybody should be reasonably satisfied.
I'd say my favorite map for 1v1 is the Mickey Mouse one, can't remember the name.
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No one ever said you have to fight on the front line...
Many fighters on the front line? Fine, go around!
It worked on the french... twice...
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I know how you feel Urchin.
I too liked it when you knew a lot of the people flying here and having the dedicated squadrons added a lot of character. I was seriously disappointed to hear that the 56th FG disbanded.
I left the game for 4 months and returned this tour, just because AHII is becoming playable.
CT can be fun sometimes, when there's enough people and a plane set I like. The MA is a mess - just a place too pass the time till the great hope of AHII.
Perhaps now, that there are more then 500 players at times, and AHI is about to end, is the right time to try an early-mid war areana. MA is best with the small maps and no more then 200 people.
Bozon
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The good fights are still there, they're just obscured by the mountains of dweebery completely surrounding them.
I've had a few fights with Urchin. All of them were pretty fun. He get's down low and fights regardless of what he's flying. He definately improved from the flappy flying he used when he first showed up (classic LW pitfall). There just have never been many people that fight that way. Now, when there's even more people on, you can barely find them at all.
There's fun to be had, but the really good fights are just hard to find these days.
MiniD
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Maybe Air Warrior had it right all along - make some bases captureable, but not all of them. That way, somebody always has a shot to enter a dogfight somewhere.
Maybe its time to create a 4th country and make it completely neutral.
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Urchin:
The situation is a lot worse when the "Pizza Sucks" (TM) map is up, as it has been for the last few horrible days. You are much more likely to find decent fights when the smaller maps are up and particularly when the evil-fester maps are up. Message me online sometime when one of the good maps is up and we can get in some good furballs together, either as friends or enemies :).
Hooligan
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When I first started playing this game, the emphasis was on air to air combat. New players died, learned how to fight, then fought and won (or lost, what matters is they fought). Yes, you had a few extra-timid people that typically bore n zoomed, but it wasn't very many. As time went by, and the population increased, the average "skill" of the arena went down. As time continues to pass, the problem (as I see it), continues to get much worse.
You hit nail on the head Urchin...the overall skill level within the game has diminished tremendously overall...obviously there are still some truely outstanding sticks...but not 1 of the "top 100" even bother with this garbage anymore...all of em have signed up at one time or another and quietly gone there own way....
The "game" I fell in love with 10 years ago simply doesn't exist anymore. It's reaching a point the $150/hr (cost of my time) simply doesnt wash anymore...almost rather go make money then goof off...sigh...
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It seems there is a choice of sorts. You can either have this -
(http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~bandr/runner.jpg)
where you watch the guy 'extend' through 3 sectors in a big U turn so he can rejoin the horde vulching the base he just dropped his ord on, or you can have this -
(http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~bandr/mob.jpg)
where the P51 and 190 call for reinforcements when the A20 wont stay still for them.
I really cant see this pattern changing, as this is 'flying smart' or 'my bad SA' or 'do you want some cheese with that whine' when I vent on chan 1, people genuinely
think this is fun I guess.
Shame the 2nd pic hasn't got a spit in it as then it would be a perfect snap shot of crappiness.
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WAAA!!:rolleyes:
Thats what you told us rooks for 8+ months. Enjoy!
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I would sugest that it is you who changed more than the game urchin. Very simply you showing clasic burn out, your not having fun any more and searching for a resone why. And you come up with that it is the game that has changed from it's "Glory days".
You wish you could sit at your computer and get lost in the adventure of air combat. But now you sit down, the out side world is no longer totaly shut out,hours of playing no longer seem like ten minutes, little things frustrate you like your plane getting killed by someone you have never heard of.
Funny thing I have been hearing this exact same thing with different games and different resones since I started playing AW almost 15 years ago.
What in my view happens is that eventualy the challange ends with any game.Nothing much new for you to learn or do. It's at this time the searching for why your not having fun sets in. And the game is blamed for not giving you the fun you used to have.
HiTech
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Players that are upset by the horde ...
take your squad and start a new fight.. away from the massive green conga line.
But it might affect your k/t ratio.. ohh noo.
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urchin is not wrong... it has changed for whatever reason... probly "missunz" and "win perks" and maps like pizza sucks being added..maybe the influx of newbies who really think that it is better to be bored than to be killed... i don't know.
It is not impossible to find fun but it is harder than ever and less frequent. my time online is cut by at least half. The CT seems like fun in comparisson a lot of times... people there at least mostly fight in one or two areas when they are few in number so that there is more action that on a 550 player MA map where.....
80% of the fields are 4 sectors away from the fight... 10% are being capped or about to be capped by a huge horde... another 10% have had the cv sunk or are down to 25% fuel.
this is just wonderful fun stuff if you think a peeee 51 is a fun plane. otherwise... you will be bored to tears.
lazs
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Urchin maybe "burned out" but he’s has a point. I think anyone who’s been around for a while saw the shift from "air combat" to "territorial combat" (i.e. building battling).
It may have been that with the price reduction and the end of AW that large numbers of new players were never assimilated into what was previously an "air combat" game. But it’s at this time I saw the major shift from air combat to the horde.
The main jumped from 150 - 200 to over 500 folks and there really wasn’t any method to train new guys who came in and wanted to "help out" and "contribute". They learned habits like suicide as a tactic (you hear it all the time "I am dead but at least I got the fuel tanks").
Clearly AH is successful as is. But for the dinosaurs like Urchin there just isn’t an mmp "air combat" game out there. TW has no one flying it; WBS never had more then 50 - 60 guys at peak last time I checked. The Combat Theater is a mini main with a more restrictive plane set.
I play allot of FB but its no replacement for the early pre $14:99 AH. There's too much "downtime" in WWIIOL. So anyone still desiring a good fight gravitates back AH. There just isn’t anything else out there.
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I think I know the impeteous that lead Urchin to start this thread.
Basically, and I feel the same way, but don't get as upset as he may ...
When engaging an enemy 1 v 1 or 2 v 1, at a disadvantage or on equal terms, and with hard work and determination/skill, you begin to gain an advantage, and your opponent decides its time to "get out of dodge" ... for what I ask ?
Because your plane is somewhat shot up and you can't continue on fair ground ?
Thats cool. No sense in trying to fight with one arm tied behind your back. Chances are your not going to make it anyways.
Because its more realistic ? ...
Yeah right ... remember, this isn't real. Nice try. When you die, you get to start all over again with a brand new body and a brand new plane , all for $15 a month ... ain't HT wonderful !!!
Because your score will suffer ?
OH MY COD !!!! Outisde of the "Top Gun" competition that HTC sponsored, what has your rank really done for you ? New car ? ... discount on a new car ? 50% off a McDonalds ? More like ... zip ... zilch ... nada ... NOTHING !!!
Because somebody might humiliate, make fun of you ?
I think that this is what drives people to run. Its a natural reaction.
Channel 1 is overloaded with humiliating and derogatory remarks constantly. Smack talk abounds continuously. Calling "BS" is never ending. Accusations of "cheating" and "hacking" never stop ... all because you got killed !!! Boo Hoo !!! Waaaaaaaaa !!!
The so called "vets" or "better" players (not all of them) very rarely send a <>, win or lose ... especially if they lose a fight. I am not talking about getting picked while engaged, I am talking a good fight ... 1 v 1 - 1 v 2. And its not just the vets ... the amount of <>, good fight, good kill, nice moves, etc. are so lacking, it not even funny.
Most times, if you do get a response after a win it's some lame azzed excuse or they call "BS" or "you lame azzed LaLa dweeb" or "next time don't bring your ****Fire" or "that loving impossible, how could your catch my (lower and slower) ".
If your a "smack" talker or one who constantly whines about how you died and can't understand why ... its you that are changing the face of AH, and its you that should be held responsible for the timid gameplay.
If you don't have something nice to say ... then STFU ... and leave the bandwidth for those that do.
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OMG, lazs actually admitted to having fun in the CT? Now I know that something has changed!
Hey lazs, you going to the con this year?
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Originally posted by hitech
I would sugest that it is you who changed more than the game urchin. Very simply you showing clasic burn out, your not having fun any more and searching for a resone why
HiTech
I agree with HiTech with this. I started with Warbirds about 1996. Since then I've had a few of these so called 'burnouts'.
I never even thought I was or would be a good (game)fighter pilot, but I studied and got relatively good using some not so popular planes. I liked flying bombers a lot, too.
Squads tended to get too organised, though, requiring weekly training - and attendance. So I quit - and again. And returned, again and again
Each time I returned The Game had chanced. New features, but of course a lot of new new players. Change of tactics. Usually the "fun" of having some "chivalry rules" was lost.
Last time I played AH I had a lot fun flying a basic Zero/C202/Hurricane against flying hordes of Corsairs/P51s/Fw-190s. Died a lot, but had fun, but got bored...
Tanks, ships and Flak were fun, too. I think I'm ready to rejoin AH - maybe...
BTW, hordes of superior fighters attacking the enemy was quite normal practise in WWII (European and Asian theathre in 1944-45) - and still is.
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I have to go get a haircut.....but will be back to post on this subject later :)
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Originally posted by humble
[B It's reaching a point the $150/hr (cost of my time) simply doesnt wash anymore...almost rather go make money then goof off...sigh... [/B]
Are you a hooker?
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I'm back after a about a year layoff as well. The game has changed. There are more options. Normally this is a good thing in a game. From the perspective of some, the additional strategic elements probably do add a lot.
All I ever wanted was a good dogfight. I wanted to take up a P-47, F6F, or F4U and put holes in the enemy. I just don’t care who wins the reset. Tell me where the fight is at, and I’ll up the Hellcat and see what I can do. Who captures A1 has always been meaningless to me. I want to pull a bogey off of a friend’s tail so they can nurse their bird home, or fight against someone who really knows how to make their ride move. Hopefully, after the fight, give you the salute and tell you where you went wrong.
I think in the early days more people had their favorite planes. They were on “crusades” to prove that their bird was the best. I can remember Frenchy in his P-47, Torque in the F4U, Mathman in the F6F, great Luftwaffe squadrons, and a host of other great pilots.
I think you have a lot of people who play the game that just want to know what the best plane is. They don’t get the same enjoyment from mastering a less than perfect bird, as they do getting a higher score.
In the final analysis there is nothing wrong with either style of play. You pay your money, and you have fun how ever you choose. To those that may get burnt chasing scores, I would recommend picking up one of planes you just like. Stop looking at your scores or the resets, find others that like the plane as much as you do. Fly with them often.
Start a crusade.
Fly a radial.
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Made a comment in the MA yesterday.
Comment was " There are fewer and fewer of us that have been here 4 years or better" Only reason I come is for the few that I've enjoyed for the past 4 years or so. Those include Wilbus, Ecke, Apar (now Dutchie) Hazed, Ripsnort and the veteran AKs'
not to mention Pepe. I also fly because of the great guys in the Old Turks. BOPS and Hornets great guys also.
A few of the vets online. Nexx & Ecke included responded. They both agreed.
I really don't know if my participation isn't as ambitious as it was because of the same old same old......or whether I'm just bored somewhat with Flight Sims in general. IL2FB AEP has piqued my interest.....have a TrackR2 in the box and as of yet I haven't installed it. I've had it for a month...and there it sits.
The one on one fights are few and far between now...they were a regualr feature of AH 4 years ago when the numbers were in the 100s' instead of the 4 to 500s'. I always enjoy a one on one...and evenly matched in numbers fights. But surviving when scads keep coming in after being shot down 10 minutes ago leave you low and exposed as you're finishing up an exhilarating low twisty turny in a Jug or whatever. In reality they would never be able to return to the fight unless they survived. But what can ya do?
Really don't know a solution....wish I did. Still love WW2 aircraft and the excitement of a great fight. Not the attempted HO, run, or reverse the HO and the enemy augars. Or the two on 15 and trying to keep enough E and speed to counter the 15.
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I have had great fun recently in the H2H arenas -
You dont have the sense of being part of a big community, but there is always a new map to choose, and always a small. friendly group of people to fly against in any given arena.
Perhaps the best aspect is that people are there to fight - You dont get so many people running away- perhaps its becuase the skill level is normally lower than the MA (which tends to make people in tempests turnfight with zekes etc), but also there are no stats to worry about and no scores which keep a running tally over a months worth of fightting. Its liberating, the action comes quickly, and its darned good fun.
Another great feature of some of these arenas is that the airfield is positioned on the edge of a cliff or on a ridiculous plateau - You already have a reasonable amount of alt without having to spend 10 minutes climbing.
I would reccomend a spell in the H2H arenas to anyone who feels burned out
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Originally posted by airbumba
Are you a hooker?
I wish....gee payed for having sex:aok
besides all my escort friends charge more than that...
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Urchin was throwing a tirade on channel 1 before he posted this. Why, I don't know, but my guess is that Pizza contributed to it. There were only about 85 people on at the time and Pizza for 85 is slim pickins.
I think Hitech is right about burn out, but the one thing that has changed is Pizza. I think many more peole are annoyed about Pizza than post here about it. I rarely see any channel 1 whining when Pizza is not up.
It took a long time for Hitech to come around to the thinking that night time irritates customers more than not having night does. I hope he'll come around to the thinking that Pizza is irritating to more customers than not having Pizza in the rotation would be.
Pizza is just an unnatural mix of textures and is a hard map because the texture colors can give you a headache. The icon colors have to be be changed because they are unreadable and it's almost impossible to find a color that works across the map.
A new base numbering system using grid coordinates as part of the field designation would help immensely to ease the irritation factor. For example, an alpha-numeric grid so field A-G11 is an airfield in grid G-11. V-J7 is a vehicle field in J-7 grid. The kneeboard map is unreadable. Anyway, I'm repeating what everyone already knows...
The only thing more irritating than Pizza is the increase in racial taunting and trash talk on channel 1 and on local vox. It really is getting low class. Trash talk done with a little class and humor is always fun, but not the vein-popping-out-on-the-forehead-type of wackos we see more of now.
The game has nothing to do with it; it's all part of the new trash-talk American culture and there is nothing Hitech can do to fix that.
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Originally posted by hitech
I would sugest that it is you who changed more than the game urchin. Very simply you showing clasic burn out, your not having fun any more and searching for a resone why. And you come up with that it is the game that has changed from it's "Glory days".
You wish you could sit at your computer and get lost in the adventure of air combat. But now you sit down, the out side world is no longer totaly shut out,hours of playing no longer seem like ten minutes, little things frustrate you like your plane getting killed by someone you have never heard of.
Funny thing I have been hearing this exact same thing with different games and different resones since I started playing AW almost 15 years ago.
What in my view happens is that eventualy the challange ends with any game.Nothing much new for you to learn or do. It's at this time the searching for why your not having fun sets in. And the game is blamed for not giving you the fun you used to have.
HiTech
Amen to that HiTech. Everyone's glory days are different. There's something about that time where you are 'in the cockpit'.
Mine happened to occur during the first scenario where I lead a group in AW. Rear cover in Spit IXs out of Tangmere covering RAF B25s and Jugs coming out of France. Everything I'd read, all the time talking to old Spit drivers etc merged that day into the game and I was in that cockpit in my mind. It was as close to real as I could ever get in my mind in a game. The plane was around me, the radio was crackling in my ears even though we were still typing it then.
Crossing the coast over the returning bombers, seeing a couple trailing smoke, and then rolling in on the 109s and 190s to clear them. It was magic.
Never happened that way since and I've been searching for it ever since without much luck :)
Dan/Slack
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Originally posted by hitech
I would sugest that it is you who changed more than the game urchin. Very simply you showing clasic burn out, your not having fun any more and searching for a resone why. And you come up with that it is the game that has changed from it's "Glory days".
You wish you could sit at your computer and get lost in the adventure of air combat. But now you sit down, the out side world is no longer totaly shut out,hours of playing no longer seem like ten minutes, little things frustrate you like your plane getting killed by someone you have never heard of.
Funny thing I have been hearing this exact same thing with different games and different resones since I started playing AW almost 15 years ago.
What in my view happens is that eventualy the challange ends with any game.Nothing much new for you to learn or do. It's at this time the searching for why your not having fun sets in. And the game is blamed for not giving you the fun you used to have.
HiTech
Urchin came cruising over to a base that had just been taken on pizza at about 8k in a 190a5, four of us that were either higher or at co-alt saw him and set a trap that any noob should have been able to see from a mile away.
He engaged a La7, was forced to break and whilst rolling I zinged his left wing causing him to break again losing the little alt he had and all of his E. I got a good solution on him as he was climbing and blew him apart.
I was in a heavy P51d and he started to comment about the "excellent ganging" - in all honesty it was, we worked as a team, destroyed the threat and he never even got to fire - but not one to let arrogance go unchecked I commented on his excellent SA that led to his demise.
He told me that I was just a noob ( albeit with his scalp) and that I should suck his dick....
It's a team game boys and girls not medieval jousting.......and if you can't take lumps for your own stupidity then there is no need to indulge in sexual profanity.
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I agree with urchin that the play of AH has changed for the worse.
Pizza? WE usually get 12 squaddies a night for the other maps but with Pizza we get 2 or 3 only. That should say it.
The good times in AH are mainly when our squad ties into another squad and battles for supremcy between bases. It lasts until the hordes decend.
I too am just holding on til AH2. So are many of the Flying Zoo.
I wish HTC would try a few more things. Like make some bases axis only and some allied only. Make some islands japanese some american. That would take no additional programing, just a change.
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Wow its funny saw 580 people on tueday night. With I bet there are more who could careless if urchin or anyother player leaves because others won't play his way. And i did see urchins little outburst today. Including at end lets go DA.
I have just as much fun killing gv's as I do planes. If you have no fun but going high looking for single con to take on its you that has problem, I like going to base and fighting 2 or 3 guys using my alt and speed . then going home.
Pizza whiners are a minority, alot whine on ch1 when its up cause they think its cool thing to do. But watch channel 1 its usally same guys whine and newbies jumping on bandwagon. Other day urb tried to get pole of the 300 on ya or nay pizza. @ said nay 50 ya rest didn't care.
Its not map that makes game its players and friends, But you are right about channel 1 it has gotten to where HTC needs to let monitors eject players on spot, Not slap wrist with no ch1 for short time. 3rd eject in 24 hrs suspend player.
Way to much crap about peoples mothers, sisters, and racial comments. And what happens is these 15 yearold s or soo see grownups (so called ) use this talk they do it to extremes and get in trouble.
ops off soap box dinner urchin I'm sorry for you. wouldv'e had more respect if you just said time to hang up for while, then to bash players or htc for your unwillingness to change with arena and grow.
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Originally posted by Steve
Pizza map Sux. This map above all others caters to the building battlers and steamrollers. Every time I log in I feel a twinge of embarrassment and disappointment to see all three sides have their steamroller in gear at 3 different points on the map. It's frustrating yet at once amusing when a couple or 3 planes stem the tide of the steamroller only to see it pop up somehwere else where there is no resistance. It's why I love the small maps, there is nowhere for these timid people to hide from me.
Thought you said in another thread we werent gonna see you till friday?
Oh well here ya go This should help :D
http://www.hippoindustries.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=KCC21195&Category_Code= (http://www.hippoindustries.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=KCC21195&Category_Code=)
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Originally posted by Steve
It's why I love the small maps, there is nowhere for these timid people to hide from me.
I am puzzled about one thing. I keep hearing you complain about people hiding from you.
Why on earth would anyone want to hide..from you?
:rofl
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
http://www.hippoindustries.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=KCC21195&Category_Code= (http://www.hippoindustries.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=KCC21195&Category_Code=)
$38 bucks for a box of tissues? Holy jebuz they must be made out of gold! :confused:
**EDIT**
Alot more than one case, but still :D
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Originally posted by WldThing
$38 bucks for a box of tissues? Holy jebuz they must be made out of gold! :confused:
**EDIT**
Alot more than one case, but still :D
Well they are for Steve. and he seems to think people are hiding from him so I figger he wont know the difference :lol
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I'm by no means any good at this game. Been playing on and off for about 3 years I guess. I have found that after being back about 5 months I am already at the point of sort of frustrated.
BUT.....I found something that I enjoy that makes it worth it. Fly to the smallest amout of DAR there is. 1 or 2 dots. I am in a squad and when they are one I really should hang with them. But , when only maybe 2 or 3 are on I pretty much fly on my own. Oh sure I have been involved in a few gang bang hordes as they are called. But , for the most part I try to just find lil fights. No base captuing. No porking. No milk running. Just a 1v1 or 2v 1 or even 3 v 1. Heak I flew into 7 the other night and managed to hit 5 different planes before they finally got me. It was a Blast. Didn't kill a obne I don't think. But man it was Hi alt yank and bank in my lil spit v.
I found 2 new guys that I fought 2 on 1 for about 30 - 45 minutes over and over. OlDemon and OlTrgt were just a blast to fly against and were very complementary and 's on both sides and I lost almosty everytime to em. But dang it was fun.
Oh I get frustrated with the every plane you meet ho pass and have to dodge em. Every now and then you die to the HO pass. I have popped off to em about it. But nothing to the rants of most on Channel 1. Just a Nice ho. Why Ho when it's 3 on 1 or such. Just small banters. I also try to acknowl;edge guys when I'm killed as well. I think alot see that I do that as well. I try to always be nice about it and when I win (which isn't very often) I always try to say nice fight. Mainly when it's just a couple of guys. When doing a capture thing and 5 kills later it's kind of hard to em. LOL
There are excellent guys here. Some I wouldn't speak to in a 1 room hotel. They tend to be smartasses and Gloat. Never a when they shoot you. But they are good flyers and fun to fight. There are the "You suck" types that alot of times were no more than cherry pickin when they got ya. ANd the ones that beat ya up and have to let the MA know how they beat ya..Let em know how bad you are. ANd , klet the MA know that they are a god for beating your Dweeby (insert plane).
I fly the Spit V 99 percent of the time. P-51's for Jabo. I rarley fly anything else as my scores will prove. Occasional F4U. Every now and then a 262 (3 times in 3 tours I think). Never LA7. Never N1K.
There is a soulution bud...Just pick a place that not many are near. CLimb in and fly around and you'll find that fight and ACM guy your looking for. I enjoy joking with my squad guys. Having some good talking while flyinig and what nots. There ARE SOME GOOD things no matter the map. You just have to look a lil harsder to find em at times.
Best of Luck Urchin:aok
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Why on earth would anyone want to hide..from you?
Because I'd wax them easily... just like I would you. Anytime you wanna step up to the plate in the MA... speak up, I'll happily pummel your smart asss into the turf.
Dunno why you have spent at least three posts in here insulting me since I said nothing to you.
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Thought you said in another thread we werent gonna see you till friday?
Your comprehension skills less than par there stalker? Where in my post does it say I was talking about a login I did recently?
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I've seen this rise and fall in interest in many games. Starting out, a lot of the interest comes from learning the game and getting good at it. After that point, there is the slide in interest.
"We need more lands!" "We need more items!" "We need more quests!" etc. etc.
It just a simple fact most games lose their appeal after awhile and I find its directly related to how much time you play. Hell I'm burned out on professional football. And when's the last time any of you have cranked up Doom? I'm sure there are more than a few that were once addicted to Quake and now laugh at it.
AH is a great game - but immune from becomming tedious? I think not. There only so much a game can provide - usually a limited ammount of hours of distraction from life.
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I think the major difference between "then" and "now" is the way a noobie is assimulated into the game. Being new, he goes with the flow.
The flow has changed and so he molded in a way different from times past. With that the game moves farther and farther away from air to air. There is no anchor to hold it.
It's a shame really. There are still those that come in fresh and what they want to be is the baddest mother in the valley. They do it on they're own and seek out those that can help like Wldthng or shane. But they are a very small minority.
When I came up in WB in 98 air to air was the begining and the end of the flightsim experience. The rest was window dressing for air to air combat.
To a certain point "now" air to air is window dressing to the rest of the flightsim for a good deal of the population.
That's so sad.
When I came up they had training most nights of the week where you worked one on one, or in a small group with a trainer on air to air combat.
It lights the fire. Mine was lit when I arrived so I didn't take advantage of it. The lessons I did later down the road refocused the fire.
In Aces High there is no formalized training in the art of air to air combat. Cant really blame Dale, I imagine the training group was baggage that got heavy.
What you have in it's absense, is the squads that take on the newguy. There they learn to take territory, kill buildings and how to live.
Living is easy. Play it safe, have the numbers, blah blah blah...
If the feeling you get when you go against the odds and come out the other side with a couple of pelts is lost on a good majority of people, the flow has changed.
It has. That sucks.
I still find my fights with the rest of the old fighters, not as often. But it's enough.
That perfect reverse is on my next sortie..
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Ironically, I just started a squad for new guys only a few days ago. No 'number's guys' but for new subscribers.
I know the trainers do a good job in the training arena, but I thought a training squad that let's new guys do something in the MA for fun, while getting them further up the learning curve can't hurt.
I plan to do it in each country on a monthly rotating basis. They can't stay in the squad after finishing, but I hope some of you C.O.'s will take a look at them after they finish. They'll know enough to be productive quickly without all the questions.
We'll see how it works, but at least I want to give it a try.
http://flightsims.info (site will be improved soon) I hope you'll send some new guys to the site instead of telling them "Enter x 3" or "Alt F4." :D
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Originally posted by Rolex
I hope you'll send some new guys to the site instead of telling them "Enter x 3" or "Alt F4." :D
Good luck with that, some still find that quite humorous :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Unused? There's nothing more satisfying then smashing an La7 with a p40b...
Hell yes Lasor. My squad did a P40 CAP and jumped a set of B17's. It was the ultimate insult to Chanault but soooo worth it.
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Alt-F4 also turns on your landing lights.
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Sucks being good.
I can relate to getting bored having to invent impossible odds to feel like I'm actually making an effort to win the dogfight... maybe I oughta spend the few hours I have left for the game in good-old-days events like KOTH etc.
Maybe there oughta be an arena separate for us demi-gods.
Naah, better to stick with the other dinosaurs and organize seal-clubbings on the unwashed masses :D
Lazs always talks about the 60-70s or whatever it was, the 1500s, when he was young and had everything us poor modern youngs will only dream of, but that's just how time works. Adapt or die.
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and AH vs IL2 is apples to oranges, they're both fruits but the oranges are small, badly modeled, maybe genetically-engineered fluorescent color and insect-resistant, but not massively multiplayer like apples.
the only thing better in IL2 is the appearance, amounts of loadouts and exotic models.
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Oh, and dont forget about those of us who cant seem to put up a good enough fight to keep the superstars interterested. Makes me feel bad when I cause the boredom of some goober I never heard of...... ;)
seriously though, its a tough game. I usually am under (waaay under) 1 to 1 K/D, 10 kills hour or any other stat which makes you a man. And I spend most of my days looking for a fight, hardly do the jabo, GV, bomber stuff anymore, though I have done a bit more this month. I dont know why i have to always be the one who does something stupid in a dogfight. Why cant the rest of you make a mistake once in a while...huh? huh?
And to Urchins point, finding a fun fight is getting harder to do and Ch 1 is full of diatribes and abuse. Seems everytime I do manage to win a fight its because I warped / disappeared / made an impossible move (yeah right) and have then spend 10 minutes reading snide remarks on 1. I know thats an exageration, but it feels that way sometimes.
In the end theres nothing to do about it, the hordes have control and those of us trying to avoid them may burn a full tank without firing a shot. Go toward the small darbars and by the time i am up, the enemy is gone and are not coming back.....because the milk run failed and they want to try somewhere else. i have spent whole afternoons chasing darbar this way. Very frustrating.
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And I spend most of my days looking for a fight
I don't care what your K/D is... what your K/Anything is. If you take off and look for a fight as opposed to flying w/ some horde to bomb some building or other... you're a big dog.
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Originally posted by Steve
Because I'd wax them easily... just like I would you. Anytime you wanna step up to the plate in the MA... speak up, I'll happily pummel your smart asss into the turf.
Dunno why you have spent at least three posts in here insulting me since I said nothing to you.
Dude, I was funn'n ya.
Sorry you took such offence
Though the pizza complaints are getting old. but not just from you but the rest as well. So I guess that link was really ment for all of ya
You and I have had a couple pretty decent fights.
No complaints bout the quality of your flying.
But the last time we met a few months ago the only thing you pummeled into the earth was yourself.
Still scratching my head over that one LOL
In any event I dont think most people hide from anyone let alone you or me.
I know I dont have any problem finding the fights.
Tell ya what. Last time I checked you were a knight. come fly with me and I'll take ya to where the fights are.
Cant offer much more of an olive branch then that.
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I too feel this way. I haven't logged on to AH1 in awhile. Last time was on Fester's new map. Had the best time I'd had in a long time.
Time before that I ended up doing a rant on channel 1 much like it sounds like Urchin did. I don't think our memories are that poor. I really do think that there used to be more combat and less ganging. Oh, ganging was always there, but it was less rampant and I was a Rook for all the time they were in the bucket. It seems now that there are huge bars of green and huge bars of red, but in different sectors. It also seems that one spends a lot of time either frantically trying to get the one enemy before your "friends" do, or desparately trying to survive.
SlapShot,
I used to give s, but now, and for the past two years, I squelch channel 1 first thing. I know this hobby is more Conservative oriented and that I as a Liberal am an odd duck in it, but it was actively killing the fun to log in and have to watch some jerkwads use channel 1 as their personal soapbox and in such terms as to set my blood boiling. Yes, I am too thin skinned, but the only solutions were to squelch channel 1 or give up my hobby.
AH vets.
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Dred, I'm sorry. I overreacted and was out of line. I misunderstood where you were going in your posts... of course if you know anything about me it's that sometimes I miss the point entirely. Still, I shouldn't have reacted as I did so again, I beg of you to accept my humble and sincere apology.
Ya, weren't you in a 51 and I was in a 38? Well I was in a 38 for a bit... then I was in bits... and pieces.
What I meant literally about some nights on the pizza map is that lots of people avoid fights and prefer to steamroll, not really avoid fights w/ me specifically. When I don't have my hackles up and am not defending my fragile psyche(from real attacks or in your case, imagined) I don't consider myself talented enough to be considered someone to avoid.
I tend to go right at the best people if I know where they are. Like the other night.... Nath 6 or 7, Steve 1.*
*He had E most times but outflew me regardless. A couple of times I got on his 6, DMF wandered by and shredded me. :lol
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Watch it , Steve, you're becomming a class act :):aok
Er thats sounds a little condescending..- I mean I'm starting to see you're a class act - seriously.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Well they are for Steve. and he seems to think people are hiding from him so I figger he wont know the difference :lol
hehehe at least a 9.8 in put downs out of a possible 10!!!
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HTC dont have a obligation to make AH fun for the "Vets". I really think that they couldnt care less about the "Vets".
As long as there are 500+ players online then in HTC´s eyes they are doing everything right...
Its all about making money and not designing an flight sim to a hardcore group that been playing 10+ years...
Its always been "vote with your credit card" type of deal. We wont see any changes untill the numbers in the arena drops drasticaly (sp?). And this wont happen, and you can thank the AW guys for this :p
Maybe its time for an mass emigration back to Warbirds? Whattya say folks? ;)
EDIT : Heres two quotes from HT in this thread
I would sugest that it is you who changed more than the game urchin.
Yes this is true. And it clearly shows that HTC are going with the current buiseness (sp?) plan, and have no desire to change the current setup.
And before you guys come here and scream "Tour of Duty" i say that its far far of from being here, i would expect that for atleast a year or so all AH2 will be is a graphics update... Tour of Duty wont see the light in the near future.
Nothing much new for you to learn or do. It's at this time the searching for why your not having fun sets in. And the game is blamed for not giving you the fun you used to have.
HT, This depends of what standpoint you have towards the game, like the "vets" here, they expect the game to evolve with them... But now its been a stagnated development for very long...
The "Vets" expect you to provide them with new and exciting things so they dont get that "old times" blues feeling...
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Urchin
I have always maintained that any game needs some semblance of rules or structure - the sort of deal that AH2/TOD is meant to offer. I have been crushed three times by what has happened in this game. [list=1]- Finding out that the mission arena was not part of this latest (Dec 2002?) release.
- Finding that AH2 is about 6 months later than expected.
- Finding out that when it finally appears, AH2 will not include TOD.
Like you, I have been frustrated by seeing the same 4-5 planes all the time. An RPS would increase choices by making some of the other 65 planes viable.
But I have been shouted down if I ever come close to suggesting any changes along those lines. It seems that "those in the know" feel that the "sandbox" with players making all their own choices - no RPS, fly what you like - is the route to gameplay utopia, so that's what we've got.
What you're now seeing is the result of that policy.
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Originally posted by hitech
I would sugest that it is you who changed more than the game urchin. Very simply you showing clasic burn out, your not having fun any more and searching for a resone why. And you come up with that it is the game that has changed from it's "Glory days".
You wish you could sit at your computer and get lost in the adventure of air combat. But now you sit down, the out side world is no longer totaly shut out,hours of playing no longer seem like ten minutes, little things frustrate you like your plane getting killed by someone you have never heard of.
Funny thing I have been hearing this exact same thing with different games and different resones since I started playing AW almost 15 years ago.
What in my view happens is that eventualy the challange ends with any game.Nothing much new for you to learn or do. It's at this time the searching for why your not having fun sets in. And the game is blamed for not giving you the fun you used to have.
HiTech
thats the truth in a nutshell, you cant change human nature, old and new is the maxim of human existence and change is at the heart of what humans are. they can not abide stagnation and must find a new obstacle, puzzle or passion which will be soon replaced with a new one when the current one gets old.
this applies to anything not just games. the mystery and unkown of somthing new and different is compelling and interesting.
Aces High is my favorite game and Ive played since beta, naturally burned out several times played less then found somthing new and interesting within the game that had been previously unexplored and rekindled my interest in it.
but finding furstration in some maps while fun in others lead me to a new puzzle or challenge, being burned out on current main arenas i enjoyed the challenge of making my own arena focussed on fast action. and therein somthing new and different twofold for myself, not only did i get the challenge of making the map as entertainment but the reward of seeign people enjoy it and flying on it myself made it very gratifying.
old and new
thats all its about and theres nothing you can do about it except change.
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Funny, I don't feel like I've changed.
I still like the same thing I liked in AWDos, the thing that made me run up $250/mo bills on GEnie.
I like to fight other airplanes.
There is no doubt in my mind, however, that the availability of good fights against other airplanes has continually decreased.
The people? The maps? The "strat"?
WHATever. It's not the same and I didn't change.
I still love a good A2A fight beyond reason; it's why I'll never leave this genre.
I don't see myself as "burned out" or as "changed". I still like the same old thing. It's just really, really getting hard to find.
Ah.... but those times you DO find it. The more rare it gets, the sweeter the experience.
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well... 70's or 1500's asside... I havbe been doing this for about 10 years.
Maybe I lack imagination and am to stuborn to live but when I started I was even worse than I am now. I died a lot.. the more I died the more I went after the guys that were killing me..
I reached a point where I feel I have a chance. I didn't reach it by flying "missunz" with the horde.. we didn't have perk points or need em.
With my lack of imagination I still have fun in a large furball... NOTHING else a flight sim offers comes close to that... even after all this time... a large furball makes an hour turn into 10 minutes of forgetting to blink cotton mouth immersion.
nopoop is right... the new guys go with the flow and it is the flow that has changed. The individual has been replaced by the hive.
banana... not sure I will go to any cons that are large... for kinda the same reason..... no individuals left... just a faceless mass... buncha numbers.
lazs
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
four of us that were either higher or at co-alt saw him and set a trap
Four on one. Admirable.
I think this might be just the thing Urchin really is talking about. And the notion that "it's a team game." I'm with him.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Toad
Funny, I don't feel like I've changed.
I still like the same thing I liked in AWDos, the thing that made me run up $250/mo bills on GEnie.
Mr. Toad! - long time :) You haven't changed for the same reason that Lazs and myself haven't changed: We're too old to change!
But the gaming scene has changed. When you mentioned those $250/mo bills, I remember back to WB. I had a few of those doozies, but I can't remember exact amounts, but certainly 3 figures of $.
A problem for the noobs is that there is no real training. It seems a lot of them don't even try, but simply go the pork-n-auger route. In WB they had official trainers right there in the MA, easily identifiable by the = at each end of their handle. My favourite trainer was a guy called ==sd==. These guys got their gameplay time free of charge. Because of that, there were many applicants to become trainers - far more than the available places. But that was a good thing. Because people would work on their game to stand a chance of becoming trainer, and that would elevate the standard of the game in the MA. So guys like myself would have to work at it to compete at that higher level.
With a flat rate of $14.95/mo, no such trainer incentive programme is viable. OK, you could save a guy $15 a month, but not $250.
We can't go back to $2/hour, but as well as the training hierarchy that pricing plan engendered, it sure as hell kept the tardz out. I remember a little bit of smack talk in grey text, but nothing like the p**sy/studmuffing/potato/your momma/your sister/racist crap we have now.
Lazs! Someone at the con said that you and I were flip sides of the same coin. I can't remember who said it. But I thought about it when I read your post.
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"banana... not sure I will go to any cons that are large... for kinda the same reason..... no individuals left... just a faceless mass... buncha numbers."
Lazs ... do not not go to the con for those reasons.
Go to the con to meet faceless friends/individuals and share comraderie and good times in person.
I went to last years con and will be going to this years con for just those reasons.
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Well things obviously have changed, but the new guys aren’t to blame. It’s those of us that have been flying for years that are to blame. I think at times some of the “all stars” of the game spend too much time banging heads with the other top pilots, and not enough time passing along the art of ACM to the “nuggets”.
If we want to have more good fights, then grab a noob and take him flying with you. Teach him the finer points of ACM. Teach him how to pull a reverse. Allow more people to experience the aerial chess match that takes place when two ***** hot pilots tangle.
Blowing up buildings and chasing points leads to fast burn out IMHO. Really learning ACM and teamwork goes a long way. It is fun, and builds camaraderie.
This doesn’t have to be a formalized training program. Just grab somebody who wants to get better (there are tons of them) and go flying.
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What about this...take the NDIsles map, eliminate the 3 outter mainlands, leaving the center isle and surrounding islands. Leave the center isle bases uncapturable. Add to the arena line-up until TOD rolls out. If that doesn't reduce the lemming hordes, make everything uncapturable.
Thoughts?
Dmdmax
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Originally posted by Steve
*He had E most times but outflew me regardless. A couple of times I got on his 6, DMF wandered by and shredded me. :lol
He was setting you up for me. :)
-- Todd/Leviathn
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The more I think about it the more I realize that the fundemental nature of the game has changed in a couple of ways...
1) Most visable is the already mentioned focus on landgrabbing/building bashing instead of "air combat". Int my 1st 6-7 years in the game the bases "fed" the air war. Now the primary focus of the game for most seems to be striclty "winning" the previously secondary "war".
2) the "knights of the air" have been replaced by the "bowmen of the air" simply stated individual skilldset gets buried under a mass of arrows...er la-7's and such.
3) Certain elements of game design have helped this along...ie "enhanced" buff gun damage. One reason you have hordes of low alt B-26/B-17 runs is because you can....here's a game that struggles for realism that creates a completly phoney ability for low alt bomber only strikes against "front line" targets. IN WW2 bombers of any kind without escort simply got hammered...this is simply a connsession to noob....er game play.
I'm sure others could add lots of other specifics...
I would sugest that it is you who changed more than the game urchin. Very simply you showing clasic burn out, your not having fun any more and searching for a resone why. And you come up with that it is the game that has changed from it's "Glory days". ...
I've always admired the open nature of this BBS and Hitech and Pyro's willingness to participate on "equal footing" her...In this one case I would beg to differ....I think Hitech & Pyro have changed more than they see or care to admit. I know the realities of the situation they face and have experienced success first hand...as your firm grows your structure grows and your vision solidifys...you become less flexible as a "corporate mentality" seeps in....your individual customer becomes secondary to your bottom line...which looks better and better. After all your "vision" has been validated...your balance sheet proves it...the squeeky wheels that fueled your initial growth are now distractions that simply take you away from the "big picture"...it's tough but its a part of success...so in as polite a way as you can you let em know "don't let the door hit you in the A@@ on the way out"....and for a long time the gentle thunk is overshadowed by the continuing growth ....
The best example of this is the failure to respond to the Ki-84 or other plane requests....they were there along time before the big AH-2 push....customers are a lot like horses....they will forgive you and even continue to love you...but they never forget your transgressions. How much would it really have taken to throw the dog a bone or two??
So instead of a playerbase thats predominatley loyal to AH you have a player base that will judge things on AH2's merits. If I was out there as a consultant for anyone looking to take a run at this market I'd have an open beta timed for the release of AH2. The old guard has heard just how unimportant we are...and the 90 day wonders....well they'll follow the slickest commercial on wings....
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Check out "the golden age of Airwarrior"
Reposted from: http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6688
Originally written by Blue Baron
None of us has any idea when we're fooling around in the simulated skies just how important the relationships we're developing are. The bonds we develop with one another happen insidiously and, despite all the explosions going on around us in the game, quietly. None of us has any idea just how much we'll miss those guys we flew with after they're gone. The human heart can't tell the difference between virtual and face to fact worlds. Shared emotion bonds people, no matter where or how that emotion takes place.
Thus, there is only one golden age - the time when YOU first learned the game, and played it for long hours every day or every week. Each of us has his own good old days. And for each, they were just as good.
And for the so-called veteran who complains to me how my latest release killed the game he loved, I can say, "Yes, and you killed the game I loved. You and your kind chased away all my buddies seven years ago." In both cases the accusation is unfair. That's another thing all players from all eras share: the good old days can never last forever. Enjoy yours while you have them. Remember them fondly when they're over. In either case you are experiencing or have experienced something evermore rare in this world.
The whole article is at the spam hole linked above.
I think that's a pretty accurate portrayal of what happens to a lot of us.
-Sik
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I figured... was hoping to land killing rounds before you could.
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I know it takes so long to make them, but everybody gets invigorated with a new map.
Fester, eating and sleeping is way overrated. Grab some Red Bull and get it on, mang.
thanks for the last new map!
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Sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread... had about a 16 hour day yesterday and then went straight to bed.
DejaVu... I think that is the first nice thing you've ever said about me, I'm touched. But actually, something that DejaVu said rang true, and reinforced something I said (albeit not as well) earlier.
He get's down low and fights regardless of what he's flying. He definately improved from the flappy flying he used when he first showed up (classic LW pitfall). There just have never been many people that fight that way. Now, when there's even more people on, you can barely find them at all.
When I first started playing... I sucked horribly. Then for about a year or so, I just sucked. Then I learned how to fight. It didn't all come at once, but I learned constantly for about a year. That drive to learn, and improve, seems to be competely gone now.
Urchin came cruising over to a base that had just been taken on pizza at about 8k in a 190a5, four of us that were either higher or at co-alt saw him and set a trap that any noob should have been able to see from a mile away.
He engaged a La7, was forced to break and whilst rolling I zinged his left wing causing him to break again losing the little alt he had and all of his E. I got a good solution on him as he was climbing and blew him apart.
I was in a heavy P51d and he started to comment about the "excellent ganging" - in all honesty it was, we worked as a team, destroyed the threat and he never even got to fire - but not one to let arrogance go unchecked I commented on his excellent SA that led to his demise.
He told me that I was just a noob ( albeit with his scalp) and that I should suck his dick....
It's a team game boys and girls not medieval jousting.......and if you can't take lumps for your own stupidity then there is no need to indulge in sexual profanity.
While I can't comment about the "sexual profanity" (I don't recall saying it, but I wouldn't put it past me either, if it would go through the filter), that is a fairly accurate re-cap of a typical engagement in the MA.
If I recall correctly, there was a spit and a P-51 low, and a N1K2 and an la7 high. I engaged the La-7 and N1K, missed a shot on the N1K, dove away from the La-7. Hit the deck, reversed on the La-7, checked 6 and reversed on the N1K, checked 6 and reversed on the Spit, and got hosed by our hero in the runstang. Awesome SA? Don't be a ****ing idiot. You see, this is the difference between me and your typical chicken**** MA player like our hero Schadenfruit. I take off in a 190a5. Well... I guess that was my first bit of stupidity... I should have used an La-7, N1K, or Spit, right, hero?
Oops.. second bit of stupidity... actually trying to find a fight. Well, perhaps some of the extenuating circumstances will excuse me for this stupidity. Rooks had two bases in the area, knights had about 4 or 5, with a port and two airfields being the closest. Darbars in the area? One large red bar over one rook field, one middling sized red bar over the other rook field. One small green darbar over the field south of the one I took off at. So yea... if I am looking for a fight... I've got to go where the red planes are. I know... it is stupid to want to fight enemy planes, but I'm a stupid person, what can I say.
And I'll be damned, third bit of stupidity. Find four enemy planes over their field. Well, it'd be stupid to engage four superior planes all by myself... but it is that or turn around and fly home, since you guys sure aint going anywhere. Please note that during the 10-15 minutes it took to get to that base, the darbar neither shrank nor grew.... nor did it move. So I guess it would be safe to assume that they had been in the same general area the whole time it took me to fly there. Safe assumption, hero? You were there, you can tell me.
So no.. my SA is fine. In fact, it is probably a few orders of magnitiude better than our hero's vaunted "SA".
And if that were an isolated occurance, that would be one thing. But it isn't an isolated occurance, it is the new way the game is played. Hell, just looking at our hero's post... he is ever so proud to hold "my scalp", no matter how many people it took to get it. You guys split that scalp up 4 ways, so you each have a piece to put on your fridge? Look Ma, I killed the vaunted Urchin! Really I did!
I'm not sure how many of the faceless newbies (to me anyway) post on the boards, but I'd be very interested to hear their comments on a few of their other "hard-fought victories" in the past week or so.
I honestly can't even understand the motivation.
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When I first started playing... I sucked horribly. Then for about a year or so, I just sucked. Then I learned how to fight. It didn't all come at once, but I learned constantly for about a year. That drive to learn, and improve, seems to be competely gone now.
And that is exactly how you have changed urchin, not the game.
HiTech
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That's it, i made up my mind....i'm never getting 'good'. I don't want to loose interest. I admit i fly less hours by at least half, but that's cause i fixed my car ;)
Seriuosly, i don't stick to just trying to be the best at anything, i'd rather be good enough for enjoyment purposes. The day I started loosing interest in competitive hockey, was the day I made the AAA team. Then it all started to be too serious, it wasn't just kids playing hockey anymore.
I hope by spreading out my interests, i will keep them longer....one can always hope.
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After reading your post, and thinking about it while I smoked, Hitech. Yes, you make a very good point, actually.
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Originally posted by Urchin
After reading your post, and thinking about it while I smoked, Hitech. Yes, you make a very good point, actually.
lol
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Maniac and Fester both had very good post.. All people change. Urchin has changed, I have changed, even HT has changed. The game has changed. For the better I must say. I have played AH for, well I dunno.. A long long time.. Maybe since tour 3.. I played AW before that. I started playing AW when it was free on AOL to play. I have been around a few combat sims. AH is the ONLY flight sim that I have played in years and years.. For good reason I must say.
I do want to add though, HTC could change more.. Before going any farther, I understand how busy the HTC staff must have been in the past several months. AH2, I feel, is a good reason for AH to have been so stagnit(sp)..
The lack of change, which is my point, comes from (IMHO) HTC not listening to it's customer base. It seems (to me) that the communities desires are pushed along side. Possibly for the reasons given above. My most simplistic example is in the form of choice. The AH community has none. Would a separate arena (fighter town) not cure 90% of the ills mentioned in this thread? A small server of perhaps 50 people playing with unporkable bases and a full plane set. The map in the CT now would be perfect. How many times has HTC been asked for this type arena? This is perhaps my best example and the amount of choice given HTC customers would be greatly increased.. Choice would produce happier peoplle.. This is too long now and im rambling.. Sorry I couldnt say as much in a shorter time...
dude
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Smoked what?
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just my opinion but... it didn't matter if anyone helped me or not when I started out. I really didn't want it (the help) anyway. I wanted to figure out how to kill the other guy no matter what and the only way I could see to do that was to keep going up and fighting... each time coming a little closer to getting the killing shot.
furballs were fun then cause the really good guys might not get to me in the crowd...
They are fun now because they are the only guarenteed challenge for time invested. I can chase a sky accountant for 10 minutes only to finally get to him and find he is no real fight... he wiggles a little and then dies. In the fur... you have to watch everyone... everyone is a threat and there are lots of em. don't blink.... breath through your dry mouth... time later to blink or take a swig off the water bottle.
lazs
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Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
Maniac and Fester both had very good post.. All people change. Urchin has changed, I have changed, even HT has changed. The game has changed. For the better I must say. I have played AH for, well I dunno.. A long long time.. Maybe since tour 3.. I played AW before that. I started playing AW when it was free on AOL to play. I have been around a few combat sims. AH is the ONLY flight sim that I have played in years and years.. For good reason I must say.
I do want to add though, HTC could change more.. Before going any farther, I understand how busy the HTC staff must have been in the past several months. AH2, I feel, is a good reason for AH to have been so stagnit(sp)..
The lack of change, which is my point, comes from (IMHO) HTC not listening to it's customer base. It seems (to me) that the communities desires are pushed along side. Possibly for the reasons given above. My most simplistic example is in the form of choice. The AH community has none. Would a separate arena (fighter town) not cure 90% of the ills mentioned in this thread? A small server of perhaps 50 people playing with unporkable bases and a full plane set. The map in the CT now would be perfect. How many times has HTC been asked for this type arena? This is perhaps my best example and the amount of choice given HTC customers would be greatly increased.. Choice would produce happier peoplle.. This is too long now and im rambling.. Sorry I couldnt say as much in a shorter time...
dude
Ok I'll bite:
If you have been here since tour 3 then you know that HTC does listen to its player base. I haven't been around anywhere near that long, and have noticed the effort they go to in order to personally deal with each us (and a lot of us are major pains in the butt).
After reading what you just requested, I just can't help but think that the DA already provides most of that. It has a full plane set and you can start with altitude. I don't know if you can pork the bases or not, but I've never see anyone do it.
Seems to me we already have the choice between MA, CT, and DA. Yet people still prefer, and flock to, the MA.
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Sure we the players who have been playing for a long time have changed, I can't deny that, but so has the game.
Its a combination of things, and with the current stagnation of ah1 it doesn't help matters.
Change is good, so lets get on with it.
SKurj
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TheDudeDVant: We always listen to our customers, we just don't always take there advice.
As nopoop brought up in another thread reacting to what the customer percieved they wanted, was a good chunk of the dimise of WB.
The way I view major game play change requests by players is don't look at what the person is asking to have changed, but wrather what they think the affect of that change is. Thats what they realy want. I.E. We want a furball arena, is realy asking we want more simaler aircraft only fights, with out the hastle from bombers and stratigic thinkers. But most people are not thinking about the unitended consiquences of a new furball arena.
Here are a few thoughts. These are not here to debate but the will be effected by a new arena.
1. Community and squad splitting.
2. Fight stagnation i.e. every day fight is same place same fields.
3. Scoring, is there scoreing? If there is how do we balance it
between arenas.
4. Is there perk points, what plane set. Might as well make 5 furball arenas, I can alreayd here the request for different era plane set furball arenas.
5. New user burn out do to same o same o.
6. Vulching, or ack running, Take away the ability to kill ack, i.e. furball only, we cant have bombs, lots of people will use ack as a defense. Take away the ack and vulching will dominate.
7. No other game to play because of community splitting, think of what a side imbalnce will cause in this arena where eveyone is only fighting. Now when we have a side imbalence more people tend to look for somthing different to do as in vehicles / bombers / base capture / field defense what ever. In this arena you will just be outnumber.
8. New user burnout do to less verioty of things to do. It is simple to say well then they can just go to the main, once we make a communty split life is not so simple. The person would be used to playing furball AH, all his friends would be there, moving to the main would require getting all new friends.
Becuse most times implementing a game play change the way people ask has unexpected consiquences that they did not consider, and a change dosn't turn out how every thinks.
HiTech
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Originally posted by JoeBWan17
Ok I'll bite:
If you have been here since tour 3 then you know that HTC does listen to its player base. I haven't been around anywhere near that long, and have noticed the effort they go to in order to personally deal with each us (and a lot of us are major pains in the butt).
After reading what you just requested, I just can't help but think that the DA already provides most of that. It has a full plane set and you can start with altitude. I don't know if you can pork the bases or not, but I've never see anyone do it.
Seems to me we already have the choice between MA, CT, and DA. Yet people still prefer, and flock to, the MA.
Let me requalify then. I believe HTC does cater to it's customers. But not in this case.
The DA is great, but I rarely see folks in there. When I have seen folk in there, it has been at one base. It could be as simple as renaming the DA and changing the map on occasions and making the bases unporkable. Fuel and such can at this point be destroyed and I have seen it while tryin to make the DA a 'Fighter Town'...
The CT is nice on occasion but lacks the full plane set. I have been flying the CT since the pizza map is up.
I am certain though if the DA was transformed into a small area and renamed that folks not desiring the strat fight would flock there for the fun fights it would produce. I have seen it happen in games such as AW..... Even if it were just 30-60 a night it would produce what is longed for in this thread at little to no effort on HTC's part...
dude
edit: The beauty of the idea is the new improved 'Figher Town' could still function as a DA.....
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Excellent points HT and I must say that I had not considered many of them.
I do still draw back to my last post of the DA. As it stands it gets very little use, that i have seen. What do you think of the idea of renaming and changing map only then? Is seems the impact on the masses could not be that vast.
A place for some to go when the MA is not what they want but still desire the FUN of AH?? Because AH can be VERY fun.. A place for those in this thread and others that feel the same?
More later but thanks for the reply HT. I did not mean to rub the wrongway if I did. I tried to focus on the positive aspects of your game and I feel they by far out way any negative that myself or others could comment on. I only ask to consider a simplistic 'Fighter Town'...
dude
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LOL, HT just described FA 1.5.
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AH bit the dust when AW went tits up and AH became AW. Said it hundreds of times and its always true.
You old AW guys take no offense please, just this game was a
B L A S T before it became so popular.
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AH bit the dust when AW went tits up and AH became AW. Said it hundreds of times and its always true.
You old AW guys take no offense please, just this game was a
B L A S T before it became so popular.
I agree but don’t forget the price drop as well, I am sure it brought in many new folks as well. As I said in my post above typically with lower numbers of new guys per tour they could be assimilated into a different type of play (air combat) when the floodgates opened there was no more assimilation. The game play shifted; as more new guys came in they were all looking for a way to contribute. It was easy for the "generals" to fill their mission ranks with fodder and suiciders. I still remember the first time I saw a blurb of red dots coming to a base. I thought, “damn here’s a fight”. I upped a g2 and before I got off the runway I had 4 kills from pork and auger dweebs. A few seconds later the horde had all buried themselves into the ground and 75% of the field was still up. Since then air combat has become less a priority and the focus was on "resets".
Add to that the fact that resets were being rewarded with perks gave support to the land grabbers.
Another way to "contribute" was to kill fuel and the like. Any no skilled new guy can fly into the ground to knock a few fuel tanks down.
Add it all together and that’s where we are.
I am not saying players tastes don’t change they do but the game has changed a helluva allot since the AW influx.
Whether that’s good or bad depends on what you want of the game you prefer. From my experience I wanted to go out and kill the other guy, I didn’t want to “stop him from flying”. He can re-up as many times as he wants.
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"Becuse most times implementing a game play change the way people ask has unexpected consiquences that they did not consider, and a change dosn't turn out how every thinks."
sounds like HT knows what he's talking about.
Last night I: furballed, 2- on - me'd, bombed, gv'd, ran with the squad, had a couple of 1 on 1's, USAgirl tagged me a couple of times, milk ran (yes, I know, trying to teach the girlfriend how to bomb), cherry picked & vulched all in the same arena.
It's what you make it for yourself, ya know.
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I gotta remember to kill Wilby for showing me this game on his laptop that day.
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I know that I'm still just a "newbie dweeb" here, but here is an idea that I had.
What about setting the game so that if you get killed, you're out of the game for an hour, or something similair? This might make people think twice about the "yeah I died but I got the fuel tanks!" type of mentality. The idea that you can keep getting killed, re-upping, back in the fight in 1 minute, etc. over and over tends to make people take chances that they normally wouldn't.
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Yeager....probably 80 to 90% of the peeps here flew AW.
AW was the first on line flight sim. So means some of us
have been participating in online flight sims for 10 years
or better.
Not really a valid point imho.
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Originally posted by debuman
I know that I'm still just a "newbie dweeb" here, but here is an idea that I had.
What about setting the game so that if you get killed, you're out of the game for an hour, or something similair? This might make people think twice about the "yeah I died but I got the fuel tanks!" type of mentality. The idea that you can keep getting killed, re-upping, back in the fight in 1 minute, etc. over and over tends to make people take chances that they normally wouldn't.
That would probably make people think twice about playing the game period.
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I believe HT has the correct analysis...............
I can name many AW players who went thru the same thing Urchin (and others) have gone during the AW days...........
Basically they reach a level of proficiency where the challenge is lost...............
Coupled with the game play becoming repetitive........
They search for what made the game great for them............
and then there is the "horde".......
Horde mentality will change the style of game play of any MMPG as it become popular............
The Horde does not support a "pyramid of excellence" where the best rise to the top........the Horde will consume individuals.
Horde mentality is quite simple and effective..............size does matter.
Infact the the emergence of AW3 Beta provided AW ACM'ers a brief escape...........
Here that part of the community that had so "matured" decided to make it its own and ACM flourished for a period putting up with the bug and subsequent patch whilst feeling part of something new.
Eventually the horde came there too and the arena changed from that of Big PAC to Big Pork.
I realise I am Euro time zoned but I see none of this in AH2 beta yet here is an environment where you can step back in time (AH history time that is) in terms of the horde presence ...............they are simply not there...........
The Horde we have in the AH MA is not an AW horde ........its one of AH's making ..............its HTC's core market...........old AW players here are the exception........not the rule.
I will say one thing about the AH MA community.........IMO the average age of an AH MA player is younger than that of an AW RR or FR player............the mentality seems less "mature".
This is to be expected.....on line games are generally more accessable to younger players who could never have afforded AW rates. (in real terms AH is significantly cheaper than AW).
Hence greater horde mentality, lesser emphasis on skill aquisition (ACM), greater emphasis on "tribal" victiory............ lower honor code.........lower ettiquette code. (see Lord of the Flies)
AH has not done this........its core user market has............
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I think there is one aspect of the Urchin syndrome that HTC obviously concern them selves with...............
rate of new customer aquisition
v
rate of customer loss
v
average period of customer retention.
Yankee will have these figures they will figure highly in each years budget and Hitechs/Pyro's subsequent planning.
They will ponder how to increase the 1st and 3rd whilst reducing the 2nd. After all their long term future depends upon it.
The problem seems to me to be the 3rd. Whether it be AW or WB or AH or even IL2.
There is this sort of curve where by players will discover the game and grow in it through skill aquisition and community membership untill they reach a plateau. There will then be a period of stagnation then they leave.
AH2 ToD offers the potential of extending this curve. But by doing so it must offer an ever increasing and changing sense of growth for its participating players. There must always be another level of some sort for folk to aspire to............and this must be more than simply the number of points on a score board.
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I would estimate (with no real accuracy) just from the time some new members join my squad having just started playing the game that the average timespan new players play the game then leave is anywhere from 3months to a year. quite a few true affectioanados stay much longer (since beta) but the "hoard" has a short timespan before it is replaced by a new hoard.
this makes actual ACM engagements closer to real WW2 engagements in terms of diverse skill levels.
you actually have attrition in aces high and the longer you stay the more you will experience clubbing noobs the way many aces did as ww2 progressed just by your experience level being higher than the general ma population.
you even remember old names that have passed away never to be seen again. you watch as these new replacements fly and get killed in what you consider after so much flying to be obviously silly mistakes and you get a good laugh from it.
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"Thus, there is only one golden age - the time when YOU first learned the game, and played it for long hours every day or every week. Each of us has his own good old days. And for each, they were just as good. "
And so, so true in real life as well. We were all 16-20 once and it was pretty great for most of us. BB, wherever you are.
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Yeager....probably 80 to 90% of the peeps here flew AW.
AW was the first on line flight sim. So means some of us
have been participating in online flight sims for 10 years
or better.
Not really a valid point imho.
Dude, you didnt grasp his post... It was not a slam against AW players.
When AW went tits up the AH playerbase doubled (judging by arena numbers).
And a result of this is that HTC dont have to listen to the community as much as they had to before...
If 50 unhappy players leave now it wont do much to HTC´s economy... If 50 players left AH when AW still was alive then it would have hurt more...
So the conclousion (SP???) is that HTC was more dependent on listen to the communitys wishes before the AW fiasko...
Regards.
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Originally posted by Tilt
There will then be a period of stagnation then they leave.
[/b]Except if staying is still fun.
AH2 ToD offers the potential of extending this curve. But by doing so it must offer an ever increasing and changing sense of growth for its participating players. There must always be another level of some sort for folk to aspire to............and this must be more than simply the number of points on a score board. [/B]
But this is based on WWII, what would a WWII pilot have found new after about 5-10 more years of WWII, past '45?
Big fish - smal pond, how do you expand on something fixed as the WWII (air) environment was? By continuously improving realism/immersion of the interface?
Two types of things you can add to the game, those that last and those that are attractive only by novelty.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Four on one. Admirable.
I think this might be just the thing Urchin really is talking about. And the notion that "it's a team game." I'm with him.
- oldman
ok so what should we have done....get to co-alt and the same E state as him, then ask him politely if he'd like to have a small duel, one at a time of course so he can show us his magnificent skills and we can all be awed and overcome with gratitude that a demi-god had agreed to share with the peasants his superb fighting skills?
Actually what happened was an arrogant foul-mouthed little banana was taught a lesson, 45 seconds after engaging he was flopping around on the deck helpless as a 5 year old whining that the nasty boys weren't playing the game the way he wanted and generally throwing his toys out of the cot.
It's a MASSIVE, MULTIPLAYER game - if you want one on one then go to the DA or set up your own room - don't complain that 4000 other people aren't doing things the way you like them and by golly they better change or you will- shock and horror - leave!!!
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
ok so what should we have done....get to co-alt and the same E state as him
Well...yeah, something like that. Let two of your group use their position and energy advantage to attack him, while the other two stay out. Don't you ever break off when you see someone getting ganged?
It's a MASSIVE, MULTIPLAYER game - if you want one on one then go to the DA or set up your own room - don't complain that 4000 other people aren't doing things the way you like them and by golly they better change or you will- shock and horror - leave!!!
Isn't this Urchin's point? By viewing this as nothing more than a play-to-win team game, you discourage individual accomplishment by emphasizing goals that have nothing to do with individual skill. Fly with the numbers, and you'll never have to get good at flying.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Maniac
And a result of this is that HTC dont have to listen to the community as much as they had to before...
Flawed premise...
So the conclousion (SP???) is that HTC was more dependent on listen to the communitys wishes before the AW fiasko...
...and therefore faulty conclusion.
Any business regardless of size is misguided to not listen to the customer. And I've not seen any evidence that HTC does not listen to the community. After all, how many times has HiTech replied to this thread?
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Any business regardless of size is misguided to not listen to the customer. And I've not seen any evidence that HTC does not listen to the community. After all, how many times has HiTech replied to this thread?
Everyone can listen... But what they do is what counts...
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I believe that people who have been around a long time and claim to know how the evolution of a player works are missing ne thing..
there has never been a situation like this before. I have never seen an arena in WB or dos AW (the only one I flew) or AH that had 500 players all on a flat rate.
Those who furballed in the early arenas would not recognize the arena here. It is different than anything that has come previous.
lazs
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Simple reason for me not playing may be burnout as Hitech suggested. But I feel that it is lack of excitement. No updates in months .. no new planes .. etc.
And OLD terrains. Look at the new OZterrain and how the community tripped all over themselves to fly in there again. I realize that HTC has been working hard on AH2, but a few minor updates or new planes might have kept a few people around. I have been busy with work and not on, except for special events, but I really haven't missed the game alll that much.
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Originally posted by skernsk
Simple reason for me not playing may be burnout as Hitech suggested. But I feel that it is lack of excitement. No updates in months .. no new planes .. etc.
And OLD terrains. Look at the new OZterrain and how the community tripped all over themselves to fly in there again. I realize that HTC has been working hard on AH2, but a few minor updates or new planes might have kept a few people around. I have been busy with work and not on, except for special events, but I really haven't missed the game alll that much.
Lets see ...
You have been busy with work, so you haven't had the time or opportunity to play.
HTC has been buried in the development of AHII, yet you think that they should take time out of their work schedule to throw a couple of bones into AH I.
:confused:
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For sure AH's current "MA" is definately BigPork only on a grander scale due to the numbers in just one arena.
"....the mentality seems less "mature"."
I dissagree. IMO it is essentially the same as AW's was. But it would be unfair for folsk not to acknowledge that AH has always had a problem with channel one. Simply search this vBB and the discussions about crap on channel one go back to the beginning. It's just that way-back-when there were just a hell-of-alot less people online who were afflicted with textual-tourettes or political-diarheal-dysfunction.
The major difference between AW on Lamestorm and AW-4 (as AH is known now) was that AW had a large corp of volunteers that moderated the arena's 7x24x365. They were indispensable, and helped enourmously, not only for assisting new players but for setting the line on tolerated behavior and talk in the AW arenas as well. When those moderators were "let go" during AW's sunset what was seen emmediately thereafter in the AW arena's is the same behavior, even a bit worse, as seen in the AH "MA" now.
But even before that inglorious final chapter the jeuvinile macro spewage, whines about the game/plane/Kesmai/(insert specific support/developer employee) and adolescent chest thumping was essentially the same. Even more so in the RR arena's.
(RR??.... Now there's a whole nother extinct topic for discussion. One made moot by AH's novel, one arena, one FM concept ;) )
So. While players certainly do change, and burnout on the same ole same ole, IMO there is no way anyone can seriously claim that the online dynamics of AH has not. While AH the program itself hasn't changed much in tha past couple of years the demographics (ie: >>>>NNNNN> playing AH has and they've seriously changed the type of gameplay experience one see in AH's MA now (milk running or gang banging, pork&auger, divebombing Lancaster minions).
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Urchin may be burned out, but the AW Big Pac mentality has arived at AH. It arrived about the time of the first large Bishop[?] Typhoon raids, transitioned to P-51s and has remained ever since. It actually took about 3 months or so to really set in.
For example, I clearly remember going from a Zero or Spit V in base defence mode to an LA7 (again, in the course of about 1-2 months) because you just couldn't catch them in their runs otherwise, and it was hard to find anyone willing to engage you until all of the ground targets and potential runway vulches were gone, or the odds were 5-1 or better.
The same thing had a very clear transition at AW too, during the gamestorm generation. I took off the first year of gamestorm because of burnout, came back fresh and found an entirely different arena. I think my first fight involved chasing a high p-51 two sectors to a deserted field, hoping he would engage with his huge e advantage, only to have him die to field ack on his bombing run. I soon found that was the rule, not the exception, as was hordes of players flying far away from each other doing the steamroller against light opposition. Again, a night and day transition -- hard to miss.
When it got so bad that I was flying 2-3 sectors in the hopes of a decent, non-horde fight, I gave up and came to AH. Fortunately, for whatever reason (field layout, ground damage model?) the worst is not that bad here (for my $15/month). You can, with some work and some country switching, find good ACM fights. Just not as many (and many fizzle out on the way to the engagement) and it requires some extra work and analysis.
My $.02
Charon
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a thought...
I started over 2 years ago, Tour 23, as GT3man. most wont remember that name, except maybe the ones who shot me down over and over and offerred advice.
I believe it was Tilt in a P38 who did the most damage (could be wrong, I seem to recall Lazer being around as well, but he may have been on my side), but there was another P38 there too who was amazing, plus Shane (dont remember what he was flyin, pony maybe) I musta lost 20-30 fights that day and had a nice Ch 1 talk about my poor choice of aircraft for a noob (190A8) and how to adjust views and all sorts of stuff. Shane emailed me his views, very nice of him I thought.
Anyway, I seem to remember that day, we fought between 2 bases for quite a while, and no one tried to pork the other field or capture it. All the while, there were maybe 6 guys to each side in that fight, and I dont remember a single Ch 1 whine or insult.
That day I spent most of my time in a chute, but it hooked me.
From then I became a jaboaugerdweeb, and had fun with that, learning to dive bomb, but in those days, no one seemed to be trying to pork fields, mostly it was "hit the town" then fight if ya can. I usually couldn't, but once in a while some good fights would spring up.
Then i became a runner. Flying to survive. I still didn't do very well at surviving when i engaged, but my flights lasted longer :rolleyes: i still died a lot trying up defense at capped fields.
Then I looked for furballs, died constantly and began looking at stats like kill/hour wondering how the heck these guys are getting 10 kills/hr and 4+:1 k/d ratios.......I am still wondering about that one LOL. No way i'll ever get to that point.
Now I just want to find fairly even, lower number / non horde fights. I still enjoy a base capture once in a while, but not with a horde, thats just boring to me. On the days when there is nothing but red hordes here and green hordes there, I can get very frustrated.
The point I am trying to make is:
Based on my experience, I think many new players might follow the same progression away from the horde. maybe not, but one can hope ;)
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So there's a simple solution: improve the df skills of all these new players.
Good old days of truly difficult and epic fights all over again, for everyone.
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Originally posted by Westy
"....the mentality seems less "mature"."
I dissagree. IMO it is essentially the same as AW's was. But it would be unfair for folsk not to acknowledge that AH has always had a problem with channel one.
I dont want to hold the AW horde up as some sort of "higher group" it was a comparative judgement rather than a quantitative one.
I would just comment that it seems to me that the average age of an AH MA player is lower than what was found in AW FR or RR even during 2000/2001 and that that has its influence on the "persona" of the AH horde.
However we digress into an AW/AH comparison when the key point that is seen from both is that easily accessable (low cost high value) MMPG's attract hordes.............. .
The dilema is that hordes (ie lots of fairly new customers) is exactly what a company like HTC wants. It has to serve its core market.
The horde also contributes to the limit of the average customer retention cycle.
However by creating an MMPG that has sustained player growth and change it begins to address the challenge of lenthening the customer retention cycle by reducing the hordes influence on the individuals development and enjoyment.
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Originally posted by BlkKnit
I believe it was Tilt in a P38 who did the most
Tilt does not know how to fly a P38............saving that for his old age................
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heh, maybe I got it backwards....Lazer a 38 guy?
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Originally posted by Steve
Pizza map Sux. This map above all others caters to the building battlers and steamrollers. Every time I log in I feel a twinge of embarrassment and disappointment to see all three sides have their steamroller in gear at 3 different points on the map. It's frustrating yet at once amusing when a couple or 3 planes stem the tide of the steamroller only to see it pop up somehwere else where there is no resistance. It's why I love the small maps, there is nowhere for these timid people to hide from me.
I agree with Steve, also as for Squads dieing here lately ? I have been a member of The SEASERPENTS ( started in early AW days ) and it is now after many years, gone also.
If I never see AK Desert again in MA would be just fine with me !.
I usually stay out of these webboard debates lately , cause every time in the past when I voice my thoughts (or .02 cents ) on The Great PIZZA MAP ,some self appointed WW II Combat Flight Sim expert proceeds to rip my bellybutton to pieces, telling me to play FighterAce or some other dumb assed personal attack .
As for me offering a suggestion or remedy into the this thread ?,
I have none , except this ..... "throw PIZZA and Perk points in the trash can "
CHKRS/ CHECKERS
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How long since a new airplane? This has a lot to do with the current state of affairs.
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Originally posted by skernsk
Simple reason for me not playing may be burnout as Hitech suggested. But I feel that it is lack of excitement. No updates in months .. no new planes .. etc.
And OLD terrains. Look at the new OZterrain and how the community tripped all over themselves to fly in there again. I realize that HTC has been working hard on AH2, but a few minor updates or new planes might have kept a few people around. I have been busy with work and not on, except for special events, but I really haven't missed the game alll that much.
I agree with skernsk. Part of the reason I'm feeling a little burnt out myself, is that I poured my heart and soul into developing the special events back in 2000-2001, when I was the Head CM. At that time, Pyro and HiTech worked as openly as possible with us, implementing many things we requested to help us run scenarios better. In fact, many of those cool arena settings found in the setup button, and many of the planes developed at that time were requested by the CM's.
In short, I felt that HTC was committed to adding planes and features that we needed as CM's to make the special events truly, welll, special.
I resigned as head CM when I started to feel that the responsiveness from HTC started to slow down. Since then, I think it can be argued that the special events team have not gotten much in the way of additonal planes or features.
Frankly, it's none of my business how HTC runs their business. But when I felt that the development team was starting to slow down on feeding us, I figured that my time devoted to improving the special events could be better spent elsewherre in my life. And since becoming "just another customer", I've been disappointed in the lack of releases.
I can tell now that the amount of worked needed to bring AH2 up to snuff was much greater than I(or maybe even HiTech) ever anticipated. It appears to be almost a complete re-write of the code, or at least the graphics engine.
In short, while I'm still impressed with HTC as a company, I'm starting to get that "it's dejavu all over again feeling".
Warbirds 1.x was a perfectly great game, and the planes were rolling off the assembly line on a regular basis. But, once the decision was made to go to WB 2.0, things changed. Plane releases slowed down, and other things behind the scenes(the whole ICI/IMOL/iEN bruhaha) helped to slow development to a crawl.
So, here we are again, 5 years later, with a perfectly great game, AH, that still needs to have it's planeset finished. Instead of that, the move to AH2 was initiated, and for over a year, development of AH has stagnated.
Obviously, HTC as a development team is not stagnant(AH2). I'm sure they've been working like demons ever since they opened the doors back in '99. But the original plan of short development cycles as originally envisioned by HiTech and Pyro seems to have been either forgotten, or changed due to "unforseen circumstances".
Two years ago when I was at the AH con, and the Cornered Rats were struggling to overcome their extremely embarrassing release of WWIIOL, I never thought I'd say what I'm going to say now: Cornered Rat software is looking impressive to the sim community by keeping with their commitment to a small development cycle, while HTC still struggles to get AH2 out the door.
While I have nothing but the utmost respect and admiration for everyone at HTC...as a customer, I still scratch my head and wonder if we're witnessing the beginning of the demise of AH. Was the decision to shelve AH1 and move to AH2 the right decision? I hope so. If this is the beginning of the end, or at least the end of the beginning, will we be lamenting the imminent death of AH in 3 years, like the gang over at AGW is lamenting the current state of WB?
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. To keep customers from burning out, developers should try to adhere to short development cycles, with updates, additonal units and bug fixes arriving in small patches, instead of one or two big "super patches" each year.
This is all just my opinion. I'm no expert at game development. I'm just going on my experience as a long time customer and one time CM who wrote the book on "Gung Ho for Aces High".
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I didn't mean to digress to an AW-AH comparison Tilt. I also agree wholeheartedly with your analysis.
Player "growth" is one reason I used to always ask for more aircraft/pilot management features. Functions that worked along the lines the same way combat trim or auto-fuel for example do - user selectable options. These things would be, and indeed do, go hand-in-hand with evolving the program as an immersive simulation too.
I'd always though that the longer it takes to reach the plateau in one's learning curves then it was possible the player would be involved a lot longer. HTC (or any MMPG co.) then could benefit with more sustained, paying accounts.
IMO AH did not evolve much as a "simulation" after 2000/2001. The focus seemed to change to be primarily gameplay additions in order to attract the AW masses. I think it worked for the numbers soared in AH and continue to remain so. Hopefully HTC's "bottom line" grew too.
I now figure that if a company is sticking to the old "fantasy arena" concept then "simulation" may just be a silly thing simply for just a small few? I've just about given up on thinking AH will incorporate more management functions, that HTC will get rid of the modern AWACS radar system or that HiTech will develop a novel, advanced icon system.
Anyway.
"TOD" is the up'n coming "game" that draws me to these boards every day. Just looking for that ever elusive "news" about it. (Did HTC steal or borrow the chapter from Kesmai on that or what?)
AH-II's "MA" gameplay would become attractive, for me anyway, if HTC improved the GV aspect, changed the clouds so that one could play cat& mouse in them (while inside the clouds you could still see opponants dots. AH-1 bug or feature?) and "fix" the damn pork&auger/dive bombing four-engined bomber gameplay problems.
p.s. edited to say kudos to banana for expressing ever so much better than I could my thought on the change in HTC.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
ok so what should we have done....get to co-alt and the same E state as him
Well...yeah, something like that. Let two of your group use their position and energy advantage to attack him, while the other two stay out. Don't you ever break off when you see someone getting ganged?
It's a MASSIVE, MULTIPLAYER game - if you want one on one then go to the DA or set up your own room - don't complain that 4000 other people aren't doing things the way you like them and by golly they better change or you will- shock and horror - leave!!!
Isn't this Urchin's point? By viewing this as nothing more than a play-to-win team game, you discourage individual accomplishment by emphasizing goals that have nothing to do with individual skill. Fly with the numbers, and you'll never have to get good at flying.
- oldman
Well I disagree - I fly alone, no squad affiliation, however if I am going to fly alone I make sure that when I engage multiple enemy a/c then I have some advantage - either in speed, alt, firepower or manouverability - my idea of flying well is creating a situation where I can kill the enemy without any dange to myseff - the challenge is in creating that situation.
It all depends what you define "good" as and if that is what you are attempting to achieve.
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That is all well and good Hero. One question... how long have you been playing AH? Not meant to be deragatory ... just curious.
As far as the "lesson" you taught me... I'm sorry to have to say there isn't a lesson you COULD teach me. After all, you appear to have stopped with the "fly fast plane, stay near ack, stay in crowd" lessons.
The only problem I have with that is that the vast majority of the player-base appears to have stopped at those lessons too.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
ok so what should we have done....get to co-alt and the same E state as him
Well...yeah, something like that. Let two of your group use their position and energy advantage to attack him, while the other two stay out. Don't you ever break off when you see someone getting ganged?
It's a MASSIVE, MULTIPLAYER game - if you want one on one then go to the DA or set up your own room - don't complain that 4000 other people aren't doing things the way you like them and by golly they better change or you will- shock and horror - leave!!!
Isn't this Urchin's point? By viewing this as nothing more than a play-to-win team game, you discourage individual accomplishment by emphasizing goals that have nothing to do with individual skill. Fly with the numbers, and you'll never have to get good at flying.
- oldman
took the words right out of my mouth oldman. i'm impressed. but i've known all along you *know* this stuff. just wish you'd stop reinforcing it with the uber-niceness while in the arena. :) subtlety is not the average arena weenies strong suit.
gotta love how people think they "teach you a lesson" in a 4 on 1, but are afraid to learn how to handle themselves alone.
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banana ...
You admit to not being a game development expert and its obvious that you know little of software product development as a whole. This is probably the root of your frustration and others. Its not a slam by me ... just an interpretation.
HT told me at the last con that AH II is a complete re-write. With that in mind, you have to understand that a complete re-write is just that ... just like he was developing AH I for the first time.
Did anybody here get to use AH I while it was being developed ... this would be a period BEFORE AH I Alpha/Beta ? I don't think so.
Did anybody get to use the Cornered Rat software while it was being developed ? I don't think so. Yet you try to compare HT's initial development of a product to one that is already out and updates are being made to an existing viable base. Your comparing apples to oranges. If you want to compare apples to apples, then compare the 24 Beta releases that HTC has made available since AH II Beta was first release in Beta to the amount of releases by WWIIOL.
You say that software development slowed down on "feeding" you. Well, they changed their complete focus to what will hopefully keep they gainfully employed for quite some time and also with the hope of making them all a whole lot of money. With that goal, I think that I would divert my focus from "feeding" the CM team and anybody for that matter, for that goal.
You say the AH development has stagnated ... I am presuming that you are referring to AH I, cause I am sure that HT and crew have been burning the candle at both ends to get AH II to the point that it is now ... that is not my idea of stagnant.
When developing something completey new ... such as AH II, you DO NOT go backwards and work on AH I. It is a complete waste of time/resource/money.
If they had released new planes into AH I, to appease the impatient, while developing AH II, knowing fully that the plane(s) that they developed for AH I would need to be completely re-vamped inorder to work in AH II, I would doubt HTC's sanity and business sense. Why in the world would someone double their work load, with the amount of resources that they have, so that they can make a very small minority of a populace "happy campers" ? Would you if it was your business ? Probably not.
"To keep customers from burning out, developers should try to adhere to short development cycles, with updates, additonal units and bug fixes arriving in small patches, instead of one or two big "super patches" each year."
You can't get into this mode while developing a BASE and you cant go back to the old BASE for the reasons I gave above. Once the BASE has been established, then you start spewing out your short development items. AH II is getting close to establishing its BASE.
Ask yourself ... how much time have you spent in the AH II arena ? You want something new ? You want to see changes being made in a postive way ? ... then get into the AH II arena ... you won't be disappointed and maybe it will appease the impatienceness.
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Hi Slapshot,
Well, I'm not completely clueless when it comes to software development. In my day job, I do automation testing for IBM WebSphere, so I do have some knowledge of it. That being said, I did not know that AH2 was a complete re-write, but I suspected as much due to the time it has taken.
As to your other points, I can't disagree with you.
I think the main point of mine that you missed was that I, speaking as a customer, would've preferred to see them continue to work towards completing the planeset in AH1, and only then start a new re-write of AH. If only for purely selfish reasons(more complete and balanced scenarios, etc), I was hoping that HTC would wait to complete the planeset before moving on to a new engine.
As far as AH2, I played around with a couple of the early betas, but I've decided to wait until it "ships" before I try it again. I'm married with young children, so my time is limited to begin with.
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Originally posted by Yeager
AH bit the dust when AW went tits up and AH became AW. Said it hundreds of times and its always true.
You old AW guys take no offense please, just this game was a
B L A S T before it became so popular.
We're here, you're queer, get used to it.
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Originally posted by Charon
Urchin may be burned out, but the AW Big Pac mentality has arived at AH. It arrived about the time of the first large Bishop[?] Typhoon raids, transitioned to P-51s and has remained ever since. It actually took about 3 months or so to really set in.
For example, I clearly remember going from a Zero or Spit V in base defence mode to an LA7 (again, in the course of about 1-2 months) because you just couldn't catch them in their runs otherwise, and it was hard to find anyone willing to engage you until all of the ground targets and potential runway vulches were gone, or the odds were 5-1 or better.
The same thing had a very clear transition at AW too, during the gamestorm generation. I took off the first year of gamestorm because of burnout, came back fresh and found an entirely different arena. I think my first fight involved chasing a high p-51 two sectors to a deserted field, hoping he would engage with his huge e advantage, only to have him die to field ack on his bombing run. I soon found that was the rule, not the exception, as was hordes of players flying far away from each other doing the steamroller against light opposition. Again, a night and day transition -- hard to miss.
When it got so bad that I was flying 2-3 sectors in the hopes of a decent, non-horde fight, I gave up and came to AH. Fortunately, for whatever reason (field layout, ground damage model?) the worst is not that bad here (for my $15/month). You can, with some work and some country switching, find good ACM fights. Just not as many (and many fizzle out on the way to the engagement) and it requires some extra work and analysis.
My $.02
Charon
Exactly, but sometimes the extra work is just that, work. When the game became more work then play I gave up. After another pro-longed break I came back for an event. In the mean time a decided to do some recreational flying in the main. Last night I upped a G-6 and got into a fight with a spit 9. After a few maneuvers I got on his 6. I closed to d300 when tracers came flying over my shoulder. 2 peee51 tards decided to "help me". They were 3d back on my FE so they were spraying from d600. I just landed and logged.
Not only is the horde mentality bad when its base raping and ganging but its equally bad when tards in your own color jump in on the easy kills rather the getting the other 3 inbound.
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Originally posted by Montezuma
Blue Baron, AW2 and AW3 Producer:
You would do well to read the threads before you post in them
;)
-Sik
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I just wonder what people think they'll see with AH2?
The gameplay will be virtually the same. The players will be exactly same. The attitudes will be similar..
In fact, the only thing that will change is the graphics and maybe FM moderately.
AH2 will not be an answer to a burnout. Time off will.
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Originally posted by banana
Hi Slapshot,
Well, I'm not completely clueless when it comes to software development. In my day job, I do automation testing for IBM WebSphere, so I do have some knowledge of it. That being said, I did not know that AH2 was a complete re-write, but I suspected as much due to the time it has taken.
As to your other points, I can't disagree with you.
I think the main point of mine that you missed was that I, speaking as a customer, would've preferred to see them continue to work towards completing the planeset in AH1, and only then start a new re-write of AH. If only for purely selfish reasons(more complete and balanced scenarios, etc), I was hoping that HTC would wait to complete the planeset before moving on to a new engine.
As far as AH2, I played around with a couple of the early betas, but I've decided to wait until it "ships" before I try it again. I'm married with young children, so my time is limited to begin with.
IBM WebSphere ... ouch !!! (I work for IBM and have dealt with that beast ... hench the ouch)
I think that, and you would probably agree, that HTCs' selfish reasons outweigh all our selfish reasons when it comes to what is right and wrong with HTC's business model. I do know, in this business ... if ya snooze ... ya lose. After meeting HT, I didn't get the impression that he likes to lose.
Shame on you for waiting (j/k) ... but, I understand your priorities and can't fault you for 1 second for your choices. If you do have some spare time, download the latest Beta and give it a run ... you won't be disappointed.
If we did get more participation in AH II, the quicker it will be ready for prime time release, and then HTC can get to work producing more planes and the like. Understand the TOD will not be released until AH II is stable and HTC will need to generate the "plane sets" that will be needed to make TOD successfull. So all these planes that we have been clamoring for, I would presume, would be released into AH II MA prior to being included in to TOD plane set.
Our squad has started using the 1st hour of our squad night (Wed nights 9PM EST) to fly AH II only, and have an open invitation to all, to either fight with us or against us. Not only are we trying to find bugs, but we are also prepaing ourselfs for the drastic change when HT throws the switch. More squads should be doing the same.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
I just wonder what people think they'll see with AH2?
The gameplay will be virtually the same. The players will be exactly same. The attitudes will be similar..
In fact, the only thing that will change is the graphics and maybe FM moderately.
AH2 will not be an answer to a burnout. Time off will.
"The gameplay will be virtually the same."
Do you know that for certain ? Are you privy to the inside development/gameplay goals for AH II ? I would like to think that HTC has been observing/absorbing all the diatribes and discussions that have been taking place for the last year and will be making some adjustments to AH II gameplay.
"The players will be exactly same."
Correct. HTC has no control over this factoid, only we do.
"The attitudes will be similar.."
Complete conjecture on your part, but your entitled ... I just don't agree with it.
"In fact, the only thing that will change is the graphics and maybe FM moderately."
How much time have you put into flying in the AH II Betas ?
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Huh,
If you guys like Websphere try IBM Commerce on Websphere.
Talk about ouch!!!! My latest contract is with a client right now that is using this combo. It's kinda like using a sledge hammer to hammer in finishing nails and every now and again the head of the sledge falls off and if your not watching it falls on your head.:D
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Originally posted by Zanth
How long since a new airplane? This has a lot to do with the current state of affairs.
Dunno about that, Zanth, what with so many people flying the same three or four planes the whole time. If HTC added more planes, would it make much difference? The P40 was the last one they added. I haven't seen one this whole tour.
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Originally posted by beet1e
The P40 was the last one they added. I haven't seen one this whole tour.
because they neither fly at 25k nor up capped bases?
:lol
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Originally posted by Sikboy
You would do well to read the threads before you post in them
doh! oh well, I took it out.
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FWIW Urch...
I agree. I've had a couple of fairly long "breaks". One forced, the other self-imposed. I'm on break #3 now. It has nothing to do with being bored with the game. The game has become something other than what it was. When I have come back, the same old newness comes with it, but it only takes a few flights to become disappointed with the flow of things. It has nothing to do with the number of players, or the maps really. It's just dull-drums of same'o-same'o scenario, same'o-same'o planes. Hordewars gangbangs, ho's and uber-planes... more power to the people in that mold, good for HTC I guess. I'm holding out a glimmer of hope for TOD, but honestly... I don't think TOD will ever be, and if it is, it'll die over night. AHII will march on I'm sure... but TOD? Naaa. We can only hope.
T.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Dunno about that, Zanth, what with so many people flying the same three or four planes the whole time. If HTC added more planes, would it make much difference? The P40 was the last one they added. I haven't seen one this whole tour.
I guess it wouldn't, cause you have never flown either of the P-40 variants.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
I guess it wouldn't, cause you have never flown either of the P-40 variants.
Yes I have - in WB I flew both the B and the E. :aok Hehe, that's the sort of answer yer man Toad would have given!
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Originally posted by beet1e
Yes I have - in WB I flew both the B and the E. :aok Hehe, that's the sort of answer yer man Toad would have given!
Smoke and mirrors as usual. AW has nothing to do with it.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Lets see ...
You have been busy with work, so you haven't had the time or opportunity to play.
HTC has been buried in the development of AHII, yet you think that they should take time out of their work schedule to throw a couple of bones into AH I.
:confused:
First Slapshot .. let me tell you that I appreciate your arguments in this thread. Let me further explain so that you don't have any :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
I too spent about two years on the CM team and countless hours of my time on events. I loved doing it and was happy to help out.
I realize that HTC is working hard at AH2, but for how long now? If it was to take this long having one of the guys build a new plane or fresh terrain is not too out of the question. Hell, we are still having to sub aircraft for events ...
As a player I have been around since early beta and have never unsubscribed. But, as a customer I wonder what am I getting? For the last year or more ... nothing new. AH2 is finally coming along to the point where it is playable.
So...don't judge me on my comments and shrug them off please. They are valid and as you have read, several players (here from the beginning) feel the same way. It is finally nice to see the staff commenting and posting on the boards .. that too was a little strange compared to early on.
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When Fester burned out, he built Oz.
When Urchin burned out, he whined.
When I burned out, I built the Barbiefire.
eskimo
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Originally posted by SlapShot
AW has nothing to do with it.
I agree. It was Warbirds. :p
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Originally posted by skernsk
First Slapshot .. let me tell you that I appreciate your arguments in this thread. Let me further explain so that you don't have any :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
I too spent about two years on the CM team and countless hours of my time on events. I loved doing it and was happy to help out.
I realize that HTC is working hard at AH2, but for how long now? If it was to take this long having one of the guys build a new plane or fresh terrain is not too out of the question. Hell, we are still having to sub aircraft for events ...
As a player I have been around since early beta and have never unsubscribed. But, as a customer I wonder what am I getting? For the last year or more ... nothing new. AH2 is finally coming along to the point where it is playable.
So...don't judge me on my comments and shrug them off please. They are valid and as you have read, several players (here from the beginning) feel the same way. It is finally nice to see the staff commenting and posting on the boards .. that too was a little strange compared to early on.
skernsk ...
I am not judging you .. nor was I shrugging you off .. I was just confused with the logic of you being busy and not having time to play, yet you can't/couldn't understand that HTC has been extremly busy developing AH II and had no time for AH I. Priorities ... you have yours, and HT has his, and you both have made the correct choice.
You say we/you haven't gotten anything "new" in the last year or more. AH II is the "new", and it came out in an open Beta release last September I believe, with 24 updates up to this point. I believe that you are looking under the wrong rock for your something "new".
When developing a brand spankin' new version of software, you cannot go back to the old and waste time or efforts on it unless there is a critical circumstance. It is not smart business logic to do that, in this business. If one could accept this process and be a little more patient, the end will justify the means.
I too am anxious for "new" stuff, but I know this business all too well am satisfied to wait it out. I don't think that HT and HTC will disappoint.
I am extremly disappointed in the online participation in the AH II arena ... we all should be spending more time in there so that HT can finish this off and they can get on to making other "new" stuff for us.
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Originally posted by beet1e
I agree. It was Warbirds. :p
You are the goober of all goobers .. don't ever forget that.
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You again make a good point in terms of AH2 participation. I have not tried it in several versions due to my poor computing power. I have a new computer being built and am anxious to try AH2 online with a decent system.
I do have an hour or so a night to play, but choose to do it elsewhere or not at all.
AH2 is a huge undertaking, one which I cannot begin to understand as I have no gamemaking experience. I guess with me it's not so much burnout as impatience......I want it now:D
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Damned whiney Canucks!
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Slapshot said:
I work for IBM
You, too, eh? :)
What version of WebSphere are you ouching about? I would guess either 3.5 or 4.0.
WebSphere 5.x is much better than those earlier versions, with a much better browser based GUI. Not that it's perfect, mind you. :o
We're in FVT for WebSphere 6.0 right now, lots of testing going on trying to find bugs. Busy, busy time of the cycle right now.
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Originally posted by Steve
Dred, I'm sorry. I overreacted and was out of line.
What I meant literally about some nights on the pizza map is that lots of people avoid fights and prefer to steamroll,
I tend to go right at the best people if I know where they are. Like the other night.... Nath 6 or 7, Steve 1.*
Bah, dont sweat it man.
I know it can be difficult online with the lack of the tone of ones voice or facial expressions to determine if one is attacking or simply busting chops.
Good rule of tumb with me is if you find yourself feeling like your being personally attacked your probably taking me too seriously.
When Im serious I know how to do it in such a way where there is no question as to my intentions
I have a bit of a sadistical streak in me..(well maybe more then just a bit but thats a different topic entirelyLOL) And I love to bust chops and push buttons and nobody is immune. Jjust ask my squadmates lol
Though I typically take as well as I give. I understand where your comming from.
Now.. Where are ya so I can kill ya?
:cool:
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Originally posted by hitech
What in my view happens is that eventualy the challange ends with any game.Nothing much new for you to learn or do. It's at this time the searching for why your not having fun sets in. And the game is blamed for not giving you the fun you used to have.
May be extremly long time w/o update supportit HT ?
anyway guys... i have similar problem.
I remember very well, when we were flying in MA and we saw 2 dots fighting. So we basicaly countinued to enmy field. now all ppl after first enmy dot and then second.
Some of them are so horny, that htey drop from 25k to 10k to join 4 friends chasing 1 spt.
But major reason why it happen is that squads in Ah doesnt cooperate.
I also remember when i saw 2 190 in formation and said myself... Golly-geem it.... those two $%@#^$% will probably coopeare and fly very well....
and yes i got creamed by Apar and StSanta.
In my opinion AH`s squads are not cooperating in way they did before.
Dunno whys that, but new squads realy doesnt do that.
Anyway untill 1person a week call me cheater, i will have at least a piece of fun in AH.....
man today i were trying to kill Nexx in ostie and he got me about 5 times in raw :D
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I have to agree, the game has changed, but so have we.
As you master each little personal stumbling block on the learning curve and move on to the next, the whole game becomes less and less challenging.
At first it was "WTF?? my plane pulls to the left and crashes when I try and take off?", then you learn about torque, what causes it, and how to deal with it and think "Imagine the cool stuff I can do now I can actually take off!!"
Then you learn that pulling flat turns as hard as you can isnt the best strategy ever that you thought it was, and learn about something called the 'vertical plane'.
"Cool, imagine all the cool stuff I can do now I know how to go up!!"
Same sort of process for stalls, gunnery, SA, fighting from a disadvantage etc untill you reach a point where you are reasonably confident that you can handle yourself in pretty much any given situation in game.
What happens then? Allmost any perceivable situation in the MA is a case of "been there, done that" and you get bored, and burn out.
I'm one of the lucky ones, three years or so and I'm still bumbling about the skies wondering wtf is going on half the time....years of enjoyable learning ahead for me Im afraid :)
The beauty of the whole thing is that the freindships and community never stagnate, they keep growing the whole time, and that is the real reason I still pay to play, the game may be getting a bit long in the tooth, but you lot amuse the heck outta me. :)
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The beauty of the whole thing is that the freindships and community never stagnate, they keep growing the whole time, and that is the real reason I still pay to play, the game may be getting a bit long in the tooth, but you lot amuse the heck outta me. :)
If there is anything to take from this thread - this is all you need to remember.
Wolf
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Originally posted by Wolfala
this is all you need to remember.
hit sprites.
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There has been a very real, and quite large, change in the game. IMO it's because of the TV ads the the large influx of players that followed.
Much of AH, and what makes it what it is, exists in the players, not the game itself.(True of most online games) The emphasis on air combat vs base capture has always existed only in the minds of the players. Call it the community standard.
The standard is maintained when new players join the game. They learn the game from the veterans before them, picking up the same standard themselves. But when you have a large flood of new players, there are too many to learn from the older players, they begin to learn from each other. The community standard breaks down, and the game becomes something different. Usually settling at whatever is perceived as the 'best payout' of the game engine, eliminating the community standards completly.
New players learn that the goal of the game is to take bases. Said players fly the best aircraft to get that job accomplished, and will do so in the most efficient way. With the way AH is designed, the ideal strategy consists of much suicide field porking, and horde attacks on lightly defended bases. Air combat becomes secondary to taking bases. Unless something is changed, such player behaviors are an eventual certainty. (For better, or for worse, I'm not making judgements here)
When you talk to people who have seriously beta tested any mmog, you will almost ALWAYS hear that 'beta was better than release'. That initial flood of players can almost entirely wipe out old community standards, and replace them with new ones. It leaves the game substantially changed in the wake, and the old beta players wondering were thier game went.
Wether you like it, hate it, or don't care in the least, AH today is a very different environment from what it was before the TV ads began.
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Put all the non pork+auger squads in one country, all the teeming newbie / pork+auger masses in the other, and watch what'll happen, probably regardless of the player ratio of the two.
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One thing worse for me then gameplay is the bad connects. Not sure what it is but for the last year it's just been getting worse. Enough for me to finally call it quits 6 months ago and waiting on AH2 to see if it improves.
...-Gixer
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Gixer
imao... did you try to change provider ?
i guess new version of AH will not replace your crappy connection.
im connecting from eastern europe and connection is excelent
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I fly alot by myself, usually in a bomber as my fighter skills still suck. Nothing more fun that coming into a base to bomb and getting 7 to 10 enemy fighters swarming around you! If i am lucky enough to have a gunner onboard just makes it better. I feel satisfied if we can take 3 to 5 out before they toast the last bomber.
I have often had really good 1v1 fights with the older members and have had a great time. Win or lose i always see or learn something new.
I have taken to flying the C205 alot lately as it is a neat little plane to fly. If you want to find 1v1 fights go to enemy base were no activity shows, eventually someone will come to greet you.
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Originally posted by lada
Gixer
imao... did you try to change provider ?
i guess new version of AH will not replace your crappy connection.
im connecting from eastern europe and connection is excelent
No I don't have a crapper provider as pings from any other server is fine. For example WW2OL servers are good always a constant ping time with no packet loses.
However the HT servers it varies from excellect one day to poor the next. Just alot of varience depending on time of day. Funny enough original smaller maps always have good ping times. Big maps don't. Though I think that's coincidence as can't see how map size can make a difference. Then again you never know.
...-Gixer
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I think it is probably a server somewhere between the HTC server and your provider then. Maybe it takes a different route, or swaps between them. Pretty sure the map wouldn't have any effect on your connection.
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Fester said he'd remove some CVs from his last map, about a month ago. Did he comment on it since?
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Originally posted by Urchin
I think it is probably a server somewhere between the HTC server and your provider then. Maybe it takes a different route, or swaps between them. Pretty sure the map wouldn't have any effect on your connection.
Yeah, Interesting point. Downer is I still enjoy the game from time to time and reached the stage where I was pretty good wiothout having to fly any of the dweeb rides. Unfortunetly the connect problems just kept getting worse and caused me to close my old account in frustration.
Once AH2 gets going might look at getting involved again, but untill then as far as games I'm enjoying CIV3 and SH2.
...-Gixer
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I never gave up my account and currently i'm in a "burnout".
I only shot about 20 planes this month.
So i play FB AEP for most of time now.
It's challenging because even the fw can turn with the p38 now.
It doesn't have auto retracting flaps so now and than i break em.
there is also a J model wich makes me smash into the deck
I feel more noob so i'm challenged.
the terrain candy helps alot to keep coming back.
AH 1 doesn't have any candy compared to FB.
But ill never give up my first love as long as i can, ill keep my account.
But 2 weeks and the suffering will be over.
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I hate it when the vets blame newbies on these boards.
What the ***** are you doing to help them learn?
Many who whine don't do squat to help dweebs like me.
Average 3 Step Flight For Me:
1) Take off.
2) Meet a horde.
3) Get slaughtered.
How the hell am I suppose to learn anything from that?
I can't learn from mistakes I don't understand.
Aces High needs trainers, but it simply cannot have enough to train the massive number of dweebs it as.
So maybe what it needs is a regular trainning event.
BIG :aok to those who have helped me in the last 3 years.
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"Aces High needs trainers"
It does the are called squads. Have you hooked up with one yet? If not join one that has regular training nights.
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by AVRO1
I hate it when the vets blame newbies on these boards.
What the ***** are you doing to help them learn?
Many who whine don't do squat to help dweebs like me.
Average 3 Step Flight For Me:
1) Take off.
2) Meet a horde.
3) Get slaughtered.
How the hell am I suppose to learn anything from that?
I can't learn from mistakes I don't understand.
Aces High needs trainers, but it simply cannot have enough to train the massive number of dweebs it as.
So maybe what it needs is a regular trainning event.
BIG :aok to those who have helped me in the last 3 years.
And how are supposed to know that you are new and you need help? Especialy after 3 years. I you need help ask. I can't name anyone that I asked to help me and refused. As for your three steps, try these:
1) Open MAP
2) Find horde on radar
3) Don;t fly in that direction
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Originally posted by AVRO1
I hate it when the vets blame newbies on these boards.
What the ***** are you doing to help them learn?
Many who whine don't do squat to help dweebs like me.
Average 3 Step Flight For Me:
1) Take off.
2) Meet a horde.
3) Get slaughtered.
How the hell am I suppose to learn anything from that?
I can't learn from mistakes I don't understand.
Aces High needs trainers, but it simply cannot have enough to train the massive number of dweebs it as.
So maybe what it needs is a regular trainning event.
BIG :aok to those who have helped me in the last 3 years.
Gixer is absolutely right ... join a squad. Was the smartest move I ever made in this game.
Don't know what country you fly for, but try to hook up with one of the older more established squads. Each squad will have its "good" sticks, and once accepted into the squad, these "good" sticks are usually available for some decent training.
My mentor was "iceMAW" ... excellent stick, excellent trainer, and and excellent all-around guy. I owe a lot to "ice" and the MAW.
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Join a squad? I had to learn the hard way... trial and error. Lucky are the bastages that get formal training. Hmm maybe I did get formal training. I spent some time in DA w/ WT, Shane and others getting my butt waxed time and time again... does that count?
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Originally posted by Steve
Join a squad? I had to learn the hard way... trial and error. Lucky are the bastages that get formal training. Hmm maybe I did get formal training. I spent some time in DA w/ WT, Shane and others getting my butt waxed time and time again... does that count?
Most couldn't take that constant beating, but we know that you are masochistic in nature.
Most should join a squad.
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Originally posted by Steve
Join a squad? I had to learn the hard way... trial and error. Lucky are the bastages that get formal training. Hmm maybe I did get formal training. I spent some time in DA w/ WT, Shane and others getting my butt waxed time and time again... does that count?
Excellent way to learn! :p
I too have never read a single word from any help sites that are offered ex; netaces.org, etc.. Visited the TA maybe 2 times, did all my flying in the MA, and didnt join a squad till maybe the 6th or 7th month of playing the game. But what i did do, is i went to the DA with Aknimitz, MrRipley, and a few other pilots that gave me tips and i recorded every single thing they wrote and practiced and practiced. As i began to learn the basics then i got into my own special groove, and then thats when i begun to take off...
So the basic moral is, Ask as many questions as you can.
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I have been in a 4 or 5 squads but none of them went to the TA or DA to train. It would be much less frustrating then just trying to help my country and dying wondering what I did wrong.
Leaving trainning to squads makes sense.
I was only trying to say that some people don't fight because they do not know how. Sorry if I offended anyone. :o
I undertsand that you cannot know that the guy you just killed is a dweeb and needs help.
I was just saying that it is frustrating to try to learn in today's MA with all the hordes.
What I meant is that some people who want to improve just don't know where to go for help.
dedalos
I have had about 10 accounts in those 3 years. :(
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Originally posted by beet1e
Urchin
I have always maintained that any game needs some semblance of rules or structure - the sort of deal that AH2/TOD is meant to offer.
....
What you're now seeing is the result of that policy.
I'd have to disagree with the above. I think the very things that you (and undoubtedly many others) seek from the sim are the very things that folks like Urchin are not seeking out of the game. Structure and rules does little for those that want to get back to the experience that had none of that. As games evolve in size and scope this may indeed be required. But that very evolution changes the game experience fundamentally.
AirWarrior in its infancy was busy if you had 25 people flying. There was no structure, no rules, no nothing. Find a fight and have at it. It was the quintissential 1 vs 1 combat game. A dynamic H2H environment really. I think Sloth was about the only person who ever flew a Gooney bird between 1989 and 1992. The game just wasn't about that. And as AW grew and evolved to a more market driven animal, the "veterans" reeled at the changes and filtered out...
And then came War Birds. HT's and Killer's creation that took the realism to the next level. But the community there grew and changed and the corporate world pushed and pulled at what Warbirds was to be...
Then came AH. Although I never saw it in its infancy I gather the world was much like AW in its early years, just with a bigger player base. But a hard core player base that could still find those mano-e-mano encounters, with no rules, no structure, just "the fight". And this game evolves too, and (hopefully) becomes more profitable for its operators. But as it scales, so too does the game experience.
The unfortunate outcome is that the rules you speak of are the very things that many seeking the simple combat experience shun. That's not meant as a slight of your position. Rather it is the dichotomy that faces designers in this genre that look to expand the appeal of their sims while at the same time holding onto those core characteristics that got them to where they are.
I certainly can't offer a solution short of "don't get big!"...which is of course not a solution at all. Its definitely not a new problem though.
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I 'll take the pizza any day to the small Island maps.
I don't understand the line of thought that you get more 1 on 1 fights on a small map than crams everyone together. That just doesn't add up to what I've seen.
If I had my druthers I'd druther they got rid of all the small maps.
I followed the thread all the way down to this point and there are several things I agree and disagree with but, I will agree with the discussion over how pious and rude some pilots are about getting shot down. If the social environment here is different from the way it used to be then maybe the vets need to break the ice and break the cycle and bring some civility back to channel 1. HTC could do a better job of monitoring the real trash too.
I make no claims to be a good stick but it really make me feel good when I get a or even a after I get shot down or shoot someone down. There is so much crap on channel 1 I rarely leave it unsquelched.:)
Moto61 :aok
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Originally posted by moto61
If the social environment here is different from the way it used to be then maybe the vets need to break the ice and break the cycle and bring some civility back to channel 1. HTC could do a better job of monitoring the real trash too.
Talk about a dream job :D
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I don't understand the line of thought that you get more 1 on 1 fights on a small map than crams everyone together. That just doesn't add up to what I've seen.
I said there were more fights to be found on the small maps... don't remember ever mentioning more 1v'1's.
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Originally posted by WldThing
But what i did do, is i went to the DA with Aknimitz, MrRipley, and a few other pilots that gave me tips and i recorded every single thing they wrote and practiced and practiced.
yeah, yeah, lump me in with "others."
:eek:
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Originally posted by AVRO1
I hate it when the vets blame newbies on these boards.
What the ***** are you doing to help them learn?
Many who whine don't do squat to help dweebs like me.
Average 3 Step Flight For Me:
1) Take off.
2) Meet a horde.
3) Get slaughtered.
How the hell am I suppose to learn anything from that?
I can't learn from mistakes I don't understand.
Aces High needs trainers, but it simply cannot have enough to train the massive number of dweebs it as.
So maybe what it needs is a regular trainning event.
BIG :aok to those who have helped me in the last 3 years.
Stop flying Spit 9's......
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If the social environment here is different from the way it used to be then maybe the vets need to break the ice and break the cycle and bring some civility back to channel 1. HTC could do a better job of monitoring the real trash too.
With a game as fun as it is and should be for that matter we all let our emotions get the better of us at times. Tho I think many if not most can keep it to a minimum when it comes to vulgarity. We all snap, its what makes us human and there isnt a single thing anyone can do to change that.
I do agree with you tho moto that the language on channel 1 has gotten worse over time. Many times its just the nature of the conversation that is just way out of line rather than people cursing. Lord knows I am no angle. But there is a line that I draw between having fun with say Steve, Slapshot, Jinx, the list can go on and on... There is a line between that and just down right nasty rude out of line comments.
I often wonder how new players take this kind of thing on Channel 1 when they first see it. Do they think this is the accepted norm? to be cursing people out? And if not cursing people out just being a plain old moron... do they think its what Aces High is? I hope not...
This is a great game, I enjoy it very much. From laughing till im am blue in the face on VOX or having a great fight in the air or on the ground, there is almost always something I can look forward to when logging in. And that is what keeps me playing Aces High...
Like I said, I am not trying to depict myself as a saint. I wouldnt want that anyways :p But there is a difference like I said between having and just being down right mean. And I do agree we need more monitors or something, anything...
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Originally posted by Vortex
I'd have to disagree with the above. I think the very things that you (and undoubtedly many others) seek from the sim are the very things that folks like Urchin are not seeking out of the game. Structure and rules does little for those that want to get back to the experience that had none of that. As games evolve in size and scope this may indeed be required. But that very evolution changes the game experience fundamentally.
Vortex, I accept your point of view. I prefer situations where the air combat is driven by something else - probably a field capture attempt or base defence. There is a purpose/objective. However, many of the furball-fundamentalists have a binary viewpoint. Lazs once said that there were only two types of people in the game - furballers and toolshed killers. I rarely see validity in binary viewpoints, and certainly not that one.
The problems with not having any form of structure are manifold: Hording, suiciding the CV, pork-n-auger, grab the best plane for the job, the dreaded "conveyor belt", the steamroller... and the arena just becomes a huge melee. Also the early planes don't get much of a chance in an arena where it's 1945 every day and all planes are available all the time. That's why about 50% of all the cons I saw last night were P51 cherrypickers. And on the current map where the fields are crammed together, they can probably cap 2-3 bases simultaneously.:lol I quickly get bored with that.
On the other hand, I had a hugely entertaining session against Taki's Tyrants about a week ago - on the Pizza as it happens. We fought like gentlemen between two bases. No cherrypick opportunists from a third base 2 minutes away.
Not wishing to turn this into a mapwhine, but what I *like* about pizza is that it makes a lot of the gamey crap non viable in an arena where there are no rules, or at least no controlling influences to limit the gamey crap of which so many of us have grown so tired.
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Stop flying Spit 9's......
I expected better from you Shadenfreude :rolleyes:
I have never flown spits much in the MA.
I like the P51D for dive bombing, mostly because it's the only plane I can hit targets with regularly ;).
I like the 202, FM2 and Hurri2C for base defense.
I usually fight in the vertical but I just don't conserve my energy well I think.
Or maybe I am just using the wrong planes for it :confused:.
Maybe I will give Rolex's squad a chance.
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hmm... beetle ays that my binary viewpoint is wrong and then goes on to explain the two types of gameplay that are possible... organized/structured/horde/gangbang/suicide porking (toolshed killing) and... a furball between him and some other players on, of all things, the pizza map that was possible because of a gentlemans agreement..
his furball could easily have been trashed (as he admits) because the map allowed it.
I do not wish to depend on the mood or good will of the players with maps like pizza sucks.
Much better to simply give lots of opportunity for furballs by having fester maps and moving away when the building battlers and talentless suicide porkers decide to "win the war" by ruining the fight that is taking place and then looking like a puppy that thinks it did good.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
his furball could easily have been trashed (as he admits) because the map allowed it.
I never said anything of the kind. The battle between Taki's side and mine involved both toolshed destruction AND air combat AND GV duffing. We had M3s rolling into Taki's base. Taki himself came down and wiped out our VH. Then he and his guys got our base. We got it back using our CV as a base. Although Taki's bunch was outnumbered, they held it well because they were well coordinated and well organised as a squad.
So as for the above being EITHER a furball OR a toolshed killing exercise, it was neither. It was a combination of three things, with ownership of the base being the driving force.
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Perk the heavy ordnance, strengthen the field strat(fuel, ord, barracks, etc)
The problem of field porking is that there is no way to beat a high-alt field porker. You come in high, make your attack run, then crash or get shot down, and get a new plane without bothering to rtb. Nothing lost, target destroyed, quick trip back home.
Add a small perk price to a plane when it's loaded with heavy ord, and it forces a bit of skill into these attack runs.
If anyone likes, I have a pretty complete writeup of it somewhere.(this is just a summary, and there are a couple catches to it i havnt included)
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Originally posted by AVRO1
I expected better from you Shadenfreude :rolleyes:
I have never flown spits much in the MA.
I like the P51D for dive bombing, mostly because it's the only plane I can hit targets with regularly ;).
I like the 202, FM2 and Hurri2C for base defense.
I usually fight in the vertical but I just don't conserve my energy well I think.
Or maybe I am just using the wrong planes for it :confused:.
Maybe I will give Rolex's squad a chance.
lol apologies, it's just that most people who complain seem to be either Niki or Spit drivers who get irritated when they can't catch someone.
P51 is a very nice ride, try it with 75% fuel and set your guns to 650 feet - take off from a base near the front line and don't go anywhere near the action if you're under 12k or so - engage when you have a clear mental picture of what's going on so that you know pretty much what each plane in the 5000 yard box around you is doing or thinking of doing.
If you want to wing up and try it give me a shout anytime - try the G10 btw - am 30-1 k/d in it this tour - awesome plane.
I'm very average at acm, v.good at gunnery, acm and teamplay - but am quite willing to help if I can.....you have to join Rooks though, even if on a temp basis.
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lol should say sa not acm, my acm is so appalling it has to be seen to be believed......
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Schadenfreude,
I usually played rooks so no problem there.
I think I'll resubscribe and join Rolex's squad.
After that, well I don't know yet.
Wingman tactics and ACM is just what I need.
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Let me know when you resub - I play most weekends and my nic is Schaden.