Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Brick on October 05, 1999, 05:21:00 AM
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AH Gang - any plans (rough guess will do) as to when Mr. AI gunner will appear? The Fortress is just a wee bit vulnerable right now. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-Andy
(crosses fingers, takes a strong pull on the Jack Daniel's in preparation for the forthcoming "two weeks" answer...)
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I am also a Buff driver.
That said, I'd like to go w/o otto for a while and try going w/human only gunners first. I would rather have to man the guns myself and or take on human gunners than haveing people complaining about how otto is to accurate or operates under to many G's or whatever. I don't fly a buff to get kills, I fly a buff to reduce the enemies ability to wage war. Any kills I get in a buff are going to be soley in self defence.
I guess I'm just tired of the certian few loud fighter pilots that assume anyone who flies a buff is just trying to get cheap kills.
Anyway if I had a vote it would be for human manable guns before otto (and preferably no otto ever)
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There was a discussion somewhere else, one idea was to enable players who want to gun to jump on the gun stations when the bombers are already inflight.
Az
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Azrael
XO 487th BG (Heavy) (http://www.487th.de)
'The Gentlemen from Hell'
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Im going to try going with out auto on buffs. But you will be able to jump to gunner position as a pilot. Simply depending on other people to gun dosn't work very well.
HiTech
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Hoooraaay!
Thanks HT. It may not be popular with a few buff pilots, but I'm thrilled to get rid of "Otto" the robot gunner. To be fair to the ground pounders, I hope you leave the external views on the buffs. That will give them better SA to gun for themselves and a
photo op platform for the rest of us. There are many good reasons to go with human gunners, better player interaction, no chance for ack-stars, no debate about Otto's aim, all pointing toward better gameplay imo. WTG!
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Right on, HT. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Now... if I could just sneak some .50cals onto my C-47, I'd be set!
-Andy
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How long you reckon before fighters learn to hold off attacking until the buff is past its IP and the pilot/gunner/bombardier is otherwise occupied?
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Glars
RNZAF
http://glarsmaps.warbirds.org (http://glarsmaps.warbirds.org)
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In that case, I hope to have at least one other human flying with me. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Good point though, Glars. Hey - on another note - have you had a chance to map out the bases in AH yet?
Andy
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Hmm...
During my last couple years playing brand x flight sim. Our squad never had trouble getting gunners for our buffs. Once a squad gets established with 30 members or so, it was easy to get 4 or 5 17s airborn with at least 1 gunner on each one.
Gunning is usually 20-30 minutes of boredom with a couple minutes of sheer terror thrown in. I didnt mind gunning at all. Nice break from upping..flying..dying.
The thing is, you need people that want to achieve a common goal, and do what is necessary to achieve it.
Some players just wont fit in this sort of thing, others care enough to get the job done no matter what it takes.
These players will find themselves in a squad that is organized, and gets things done. My kinda squad (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Granger
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Hmm... I've got an itchin' in me to start the 6th Air Commando Group back up now. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) C-47s, some B-26/25s, 'stangs, and Jugs, oh my! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Andy
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Hmm, I guess I don't have a problem with
ole Otto, as long your average fighter
jock (not a specially trained buff gunner)
can replace Otto and perform more effectivly.
Hehe, easy to say... hard to code.
Regards,
Michael Carney aka duck
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With a Flat-Rate price plan, there is more incentive than ever to gun a buff. I think people will feel less pressure from the clock, and be more inclined to try new things.
val
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Scott (val) Valline
Dweebs of Death
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HT if you going to have Auto gunners only, make it where buffs can attach gunners in flight! The long boring ride to target, while grabing alt away from the action, will result in the buffs loosing gunners along the way!
Human gunners are great,better than otto in every test we ran in WB, but you have to keep aboard the whole flight!
No matter if its free, or $2/hr you still will have to sit in the hanger and beg for gunners and escorts before you dare take off!
If you somehow fill your plane with gunners after a 1 hr flight, it will be the last time! The only gunners aboard buffs you see will be the low flying acks!
It would be a better game if buffs had the option of auto, or human gunners!
I would give thought of how you could enable auto-gunners above 10k if no human gunners on board!
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(http://www.planesoffame.org/images/B17a.jpg)
I'm a buffer. To go w/o otto is something I have allways wondered about. HTC just let us keep the F3 view and man our own guns for now. Lets give it a go! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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SixPack in AH
Six-pk in WB
450th Bombardment Group (Heavy)
The 'Cottontails'[/b]
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I agree that the flat rate makes gunning in a buff a more palatable prospect.
The best thing would be for Gunners to be able to join in flight, so long as the position hasn't been disabled in an attack.
The problem becomes how to get to the bomber, or how the bomber gets people while in flight.
Perhaps a special sheet on the Hangar Clipboard showing a list of all Crewable Bombers in Flight. Any bomber listed in Green is Safe, any bomber in RED is in Danger.
People in the Tower Could click on the Red Bombers, and then join them in Flight.
HTC would have to work out if a bomber was in trouble or not. I think that just having enemy planes in your sector would not necessarly qualify, but by the time you show up on each others FE (Icons Visible) its too late for a Buff.
I would be too late, and too difficult for Buffers to Rely on 911 Calls for Gunners, but also Buffers will be forced to "Depend on the Kindness of Strangers" for Gunners.
Once Gunners are enabled, I want all ROOKS to know that if you need gunners, and I am not otherwise occupied, give me a call, and I will crew (Top Turret, or Belly.)
I would rather have Crewed Bombers than AI, but I think it is a strech to think that it Will Work.
Perhaps HTC needs to think of Special Incentives for BUFF Gunners.
Everyone wants the Glamor Jobs of flying the Sports Jobs, very few Trash Haulers, and even few guys willing to defend BUFFs.
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"I could feel the 20MM Cannon impacting behind me so I made myself small behind the pilot armor" Charlie Bond AVG
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Some of the greatest moments that I experienced in AW 2 and 3 were buff missions in fully crewed B-17s. Especially with AW 3's excellent voice comm: Ain't nothing like a couple of gunners going nuts over the intercomm when they spot attacking Focke Wulfs.
In WB I hardly ever had a human gunner on board / gunned for someone because of Otto. Why would anyone invite a gunner when
A) That guy might disco and crash your system as well
B) The automatic gunner is better than any human anyway?
I think we should try w/out Otto first and give buff pilots the ability to man their own guns if they took off without gunners.
If it really doesn't work out, let the guys at HTC start worrying about Otto then, but please make him realistic: High G-loads and tight maneuvers should throw his aim off and handing over a target from one gun position to the next should take some time.
Coding auto gunners takes time and HTC's resources are limited. I think right now there are more important issues to solve than to implement Otto, like working on the strategy model, cranking out new planes (where's my Würger!?) and squashing bugs.
Sascha JG 77 "Herz As!"
[This message has been edited by Sascha JG 77 (edited 10-06-1999).]
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hitech wrote:
Im going to try going with out auto on buffs. But you will be able to jump to gunner position as a pilot. Simply depending on other people to gun dosn't work very well.
If I might make a suggestion... typically a buff will have more gun positions than live gunners aboard. Suppose a gun position gets destroyed by a fighter, instead of "killing" the player and putting him back in the tower, just move him to the "observer" position and allow him to remain in the buff and take up another available gun position?
Opinions?
Trips
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I like that idea trips.
HiTech
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I was hoping for automatic guns....sorta.
What I want is automatic and seemless switching between top and bottom turret positions too. Your target is diving on you from above and your shooting up at him with the top turret, but when he passes and dives below you you tilt the top turret down and boom, your suddenly in the bottom turret. A 360 degree rotating turret with a 180 tilt. Killing the gunners just knocks out the gun, but not the gunner position. You could still use the top turret to aim the rest of the plane's guns, but the dead turret itself won't fire.
As a side benefit it would be nice if any other guns on the plane would shoot too if they are in the same field of fire. Shooting the top turret up and to the side will also fire the waist gunner's weapon too.
The only real drawback I see is the need for any human gunner tag-alongs (don't need them in this setup).
Hans.
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hmmm some good suggestions.
HOWEVER....
How many of you ever heard of a bomber going on a known combat run that was not fully gunned??? Hell, they pulled cooks and mechanics when they didn't have enuff rated gunners for full crews.
While I appreciate everyones disdain for "otto" and even fully dislike the low level
"ack wagons", as much as any ftr. pilot,
Buffs need to be gunned.. Period..
if not by live gunners, then otto.
I've flown them in AW, and the chance of getting live gunners, that will stay for entire flight, to be blunt, SUK!!
Perhaps "otto" could be given a rating.. the more flights survived, the better the acuracy. (starting with a very nominal accuracy rating to start.. real nominal).(MUCH less than yer current field AAA..) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
and just having the pilot being able to jump from gun to gun is not enuff. (nuthing like a slow level flying target for a buff hunter...)
Just my couple centavos worth of thought.
No offense intended... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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GreyBeard
Flight Commander, Aces High
Skeleton Crew
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I agree with Greybeard,
Most buff runs are solo runs. In real life bombers flew in huge formations with all guns manned.
Trips idea was a good one and would make it easier to man your own guns, but regardless of how good that system is, the buffer does not have the advantage of the fighter pilot. Regardless of how accurate WB made the otto gunners, I always managed to find a way to shoot them down. It took practice and wasn't always easy, but it was doable.
I just hate to think of spending 40 min getting to altitude and having it all blown away by the fact I did not have a human gunner that was there or good enough. I know I always suck at gunning on a bomber, and getting good trained gunners is going to be like trying to find hen's teeth regardless of how willing those persons are.
My vote is for an optional otto with reasonable accuracy and not a super man who can fire under any aircraft attitude or maneuver. I am also willing to let him be disabled near the fields, however, I've been shot down landing a long sortie.
Time won't cost you anymore $$'s, but when you have a limited amount of time to fly a buff sortie, why have it blown away because of the lack of otto? Another point brought out by glars, how many are going to self man the guns on final IP especially if a complicated norden system is implemented? With the current norden it's not a problem, if we have to adjust one manualy then loose our adjustments to man a gun then that would cause a frustrating and time consuming problem for the guy looking for his particular level of immersion .
No matter which way it's done, not everyone is going to be happy. Most fighter jocks want an easy kill on a buff, most buffers want a deadly fortress (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
MarkAT
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Trips made a very good suggestion as to having gunners mooved to another spot when their position is killed...I would like to add another.
when live gunners are on board and the pilot is killed...let him die , BUT, notify the crew that it has happened with a host message so as to allow a gunner to man the left seat.
Ping
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I think that having human gunners is a *great* idea. The only problems that I see with 1 gunner on board, is when lining up on target, you are totally preoccupied with the bombsight. The other problem is when there is more than 1 con...you can't be in the tail and in the nose at the same time.
Of course this requires that an AI gunner gets programmed, but what if only one auto gunner is allowed on the flight?...that is AI can only use one gun station at a time.
Thanks,
iculus
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Ping,
You have a great idea... I got really frustrated in WB after flying a B-17 for 30 minutes, and getting the "one ping pilot kill". Letting a crew member take over is much more realistic.
IC
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In WB's, a straight and level bomb run without gunners is much different from jumping all over the sky. Surviving without guns was not that hard as long as one didn't do any bombing. Would like to suggest that the ackstar problem be solved now before the truely bitter and long lasting anger starts ruining a good time. I know of players in WB's who were removed from the game when some angry ackstar shouting starting. Think, this is happening too often in WB's now and the problem should be solved in AH, in some way that will prevent the problem starting ...PERIOD.
RASTER