Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: humble on April 23, 2004, 10:43:12 AM
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It puts the whole world in perspective....
A truely tragic day for america...one of the few true current american hero's...
I hope you guys will set up a fly by....
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A sad an tragic thing for sure, but I cetainly wouldn`t say he was one of a "few" American heros. I would come more of saying he belonged to a tremondously large group of American heros at the present time.
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Jackal,
Pat Tillman was one of Arizona's own. An admired person from his days at ASU where he was undersized yet he greatly overachieved as a linebacker. He was much loved by the AZ community. Humble resides in AZ, and Tillman was a man of rare calibre. There are many American heroes these days, but Humble is right in that Tillman had few peers.
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Here, Here. While not diminishing the courage and sacrifice of all servicemembers, of which group I am currently a member, Tillman showed either a greater sacrifice, or dedication to doing what he felt was right, by giving up a promising NFL career to enlist in the Army!
Few are the soldiers, sailors, airmen, or marines that initially enlist for solely patriotic reasons.
Regardless of the reason for enlisting, to all who do and fight as called upon by their country.
Recon7
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Jackal1,
I in no way intended to slight anyone past or present serving in the armed forces of the United States of America or in public service. In a truer sense we have "hero's" all around us. One look at any picture of the police officers and firemen who rushed into the twin towers while everyone else was running out will make you realize that tens of thousands of Americans are prepared to go in harms way if circumstances require it.....
however, Pat Tillman had already chosen a different path and achieved a level of success that would have precluded most if not all others from following in his steps...
Sadly as a nation we've somehow lost our way in many respects, The "old George Bush" flew attack missions against chi chi jima, the "new' George Bush flew jets over Alabama.
The "old Archie Manning" carried a cities hopes and prayers for glory on his back for over a decade and earned the undying respect of his peers and fans for his unwavering grit and determination.
The "new Archie Manning" won't even accept the mantle of greatness form a city longing for a champion.
Unfortunately we've lost most of our true "public" hero's for some reason and worse of for it. To lose Pat Tillman before he had a chance to fill a greater destiny is a grievous blow who's full weight will never be realized...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4816850/
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Once again I will say it is a sad and tragic loss. That said I will say he was no greater a hero because he happened to play football.
There is many young men out there , right now, making the ultimate sacrifice. Some will make the sacrifice for our country without ever really having had the chance to even experience life. They do it out of patriotism and love of their country. Most of these heros will get a passing line in their hometown paper, nothing more.
I`m not overly impressed with our hero worship of pampered, overpaid, overdaramitized gentlemen of the NFL in general . Most of these guys couldn`t get a job cleaning garages if it wern`t for the misplaced worship of the kid`s game of football being touted, dramatized and commericialized in the U.S.
Mr Tillman paid the ultimate sacrifice for his country. That`s enough said. Damn sure don`t have anything to do with the NFL.
I salute "all" our troops out there doing what has made this country great.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Once again I will say it is a sad and tragic loss. That said I will say he was no greater a hero because he happened to play football.
There is many young men out there , right now, making the ultimate sacrifice. Some will make the sacrifice for our country without ever really having had the chance to even experience life. They do it out of patriotism and love of their country. Most of these heros will get a passing line in their hometown paper, nothing more.
I`m not overly impressed with our hero worship of pampered, overpaid, overdaramitized gentlemen of the NFL in general . Most of these guys couldn`t get a job cleaning garages if it wern`t for the misplaced worship of the kid`s game of football being touted, dramatized and commericialized in the U.S.
Mr Tillman paid the ultimate sacrifice for his country. That`s enough said. Damn sure don`t have anything to do with the NFL.
I salute "all" our troops out there doing what has made this country great.
Pat Tillman was cut from a different cloth than most of us. When he signed with the Cardinals, he took his sign-on bounus and bought a bicycle and an apartment close to the stadium instead of buying a car. When with ASU, he refused to redshirt as a freshman.
When he was offered a 9 million dollar deal by super bowl champs, Rams, he turned it down out of loyalty to the Cardinals.
He then turned down a nearly 4 million dollar contract with the Cardinals to go into the army as an enlisted man, despite graduating with over a 3 point gpa in business. He could have been an officer but chose to be a grunt.
He turned down every interview on the subject and privately stated that he felt he was doing nothing more than any other American who enlisted has done.
He then volunteered for the Rangers and passed the grade with top honors. The Rangers volunteer and usully operate behind enemy lines. He volunteered to go back to Afghanistan.
He is a true hero and a man who all Americans should know about. Not many people like him. Please read his story and learn tabout the personal convictions and sacrifices people like him make for our nation.
Honoring Pat Tillman in no way takes away from all the others who serve and die for our nation. Please give a moment to think about what kind of life Pat Tillman gave up to serve all of us. He is American to the core and a true hero.
Pat Tillman
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Jackal, get out of this thread. For you to post any more garbage is pointless.
Most of these guys couldn`t get a job cleaning garages if it wern`t for the misplaced worship of the kid`s game of football being touted, dramatized and commericialized in the U.S.
Tillman got his degree w/ honors in 3.5 years.
Get out of this thread.
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Originally posted by Steve
Jackal, get out of this thread. For you to post any more garbage is pointless.
.
I think not Stevie boy.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
I think not Stevie boy.
You should show a little restraint and realise that this is about one American hero, and this post does not take away from all the other heros who have served our nation.
Please do not post in a manner that takes away from this man's special sense of patriotic duty and personal conviction.
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Originally posted by NUKE
You should show a little restraint and realise that this is about one American hero, and this post does not take away from all the other heros who have served our nation.
Please do not post in a manner that takes away from this man's special sense of patriotic duty and personal conviction.
If you will actualy read my posts you will see this is definitely not the case.
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Yes pat tillman did serve and died for his country. And I admire him for fighting for Entire world, not just usa. Part of what jackal said is true be it a very limited part, We have a squadie over in afganastan right now. I know all is well with him at this time, He deserves just as much respect for serving as Pat does. Men shouldn't have to die to earn our respect for them. Serving your follow man is great honor to them and us. May it be those who teach in inner citys or just helping your nieghbor. Or the man who provides for his family, and provides a stable healthy enviroment for them.
We do alot of hero status when someone dies, and not enough for those willing to do thankless jobs they have now. Teaching our children (for pennies i might add), Firefighters, policeman ( A job that is thankless job in america I believe), Ministers fighting to teach and help famlies to grow and I could go on and on.
I dont have more respect for brothers who died serving our country than I do for little brother who survived serving for his country. I greatly respect them all the same, But I hold my mother in a higher state of respect than any one of them.
So I guess i'm agreeing only insmall part where jackal said we should respect all serving not Just the guy who was a football player that served and died, I think this was jackals point, There are men dying every day and there names are not on boards . But because Pat tillman is a football player it makes great NEWS, This is the shame........................ ....................
oh and steve pat tillman was cum laude if I remember right. Very brillant man, And I wish his wife and Mother the courage to find peace. Losing a child is the hardest thing a Mother or father will ever go thru. for them and pat GOD's speed.
P.S. JJ Gods speed on your safe return home, Can't wait to here your voice on radio make ing fun of all of us.........
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Yep, everyone has their heros. Can you spot mine in the picture?
If you don`t recognize anyone in the pic, then that`s a sad thing indeed.
If you do recognize someone in this pic then you probably think you have my hero spotted. You would say the little guy sitting down is my hero. Well that`s one of my heros in this pic. The little guy, for those who are wet behind the ears is Audie Murphy, most decorated soldier of WW11, who went on to make numerous movies after the war.
Yep, Audie always was and still is one of my heros. He is one of Americas heros. When I was a kid and got to meet him is a memory I cherish.
The thing about it is, Audie is not my number one hero in this pic. The tall guy in the back row is. This picture was taken on the set of "This Is Your Life " radio show after the war and after Audie wrote "To Hell And Back".
If your interested you can find this pic and story at http://www.audiemurphy.com in newsletter #9.
The tall guy? Well, his name is Monroe Hackney. He went into the U.S. Army at the age of 17. He was involved in combat nearly from the time he completed basic. He was pinned down in a foxhole for 3 days under heavy artillery fire along with three more guys. When relief finaly came and they got these guys out, Monroe`s boots had to be cut off only to discover his feet was frozen. In a hospital in France he refused to have his feet amputated.
He hobbled on these feet all of his life with never a complaint. He also awoke nearly every night in a sweat reliving the horror of combat. Monroe passed away in July of `97. My hero, my dad.
He never played for the NFL. I love him dearly.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/22_1082782849_dad.jpg)
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Jackel1...
I posted this as an appreciation for someone I felt had the potential to be a great american at a time when we as a nation truely need a few.
I won't say anything here to diminish your fathers service or sacrifice to this nation. His service and suffering in no way impact or diminish the loss we as a nation suffered as a result of Pat Tillmans death. And my feelings regarding his death should not be viewed as a slight to the ~700 americans that have died in Iraq or ~183 who have died in Afganistan since the commencement of current hostilities.
I did not mention either the NFL or his athletic accomplishments in either of my posts. Just because your father was a great man (and based on your post I would regard him as one) doesn't mean that you are...or that you have some inaliable right to hide behind his actions while diminishing the death of another great American.
There for with all due respect to your father...
Jackal, get out of this thread. For you to post any more garbage is pointless
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From someone who remembers the day Tillman resigned from the nfl and joined the military.....and also had to explain why a warrior like Tilllman would make such a decision in the 1st place (or at least try to explain) and also explain why I believe that afghans, Iraqis , & any 3rd world country deserves as much freedom as any of these true warriors are willing to die for.
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Originally posted by humble
Jackel1...
I did not mention either the NFL or his athletic accomplishments in either of my posts. Just because your father was a great man (and based on your post I would regard him as one) doesn't mean that you are...or that you have some inaliable right to hide behind his actions while diminishing the death of another great American.
You placed the link in for NSNBC. It`s all about the NFL and such.
I do not hide behind my father`s actions bud. I relish in his memory.
No where in my posts have I diminished Tillman`s death. Wish people would take the time to read before going off on some crusade.
Tillman was an American serving his country who lost his life in the line of duty like many, many have in the latest conflicts and untold thousands through the history of our country. They should all be held in the highest regards by all Americans and paid tribute "equaly".
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Tillman was an American serving his country who lost his life in the line of duty like many, many have in the latest conflicts and untold thousands through the history of our country. They should all be held in the highest regards by all Americans and paid tribute "equaly".
Pat Tillman is the subject of the thread and you are taking away from that by trying to somehow twist it into a lecture to us for not honoring the other heros.
Some people do not get it.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Pat Tillman is the subject of the thread and you are taking away from that by trying to somehow twist it into a lecture to us for not honoring the other heros.
Some people do not get it.
Geeeez, read the damn posts. I`m not taking anything away from anyone, only adding to it.
Your right about some people not getting it........... your one of them.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Geeeez, read the damn posts. I`m not taking anything away from anyone, only adding to it.
Your right about some people not getting it........... your one of them.
I have read your "damn" posts and I see that they seek to diminish the topic, which is Pat Tillman.
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Originally posted by NUKE
I have read your "damn" posts and I see that they seek to diminish the topic, which is Pat Tillman.
I seek to diminish nothing. If you can read you will see that.
Once again .... Tillman`s death is a sad and tragic loss along with many who have paid the ultimate price.
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Because you are such a dense moron, you do not realise that honoring Pat Tillman is not an attack on all the other heros who fight and die for us.
Don't post here unless you have something to contribute to this thread, which honors Pat Tillman.
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Maybe Skuzzy could lock this thread and point it to the first one, plus eliminate the people who want to piss all over it.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Because you are such a dense moron, you do not realise that honoring Pat Tillman is not an attack on all the other heros who fight and die for us.
Don't post here unless you have something to contribute to this thread, which honors Pat Tillman.
I never said it was an attack on anything. Your the one who seems to have something against adding to and including "all" of the guys and gals who have fell for our country.
If your looking for a moron...try a mirror.
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More fallen heros.
Middle East - AP
AP
Five U.S. Soldiers Killed in Iraq Attack
1 hour, 55 minutes ago
By JIM KRANE, Associated Press Writer
BAGHDAD - Insurgents struck a U.S. military base north of Baghdad with rockets at dawn Saturday, killing five American soldiers, an official said, while a rocket crashed into a crowded market in the Iraqi capital, killing at least three people.
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Jackal,..this thread has an explicit topic. Address or don't, but quit trying to hijack it. It is disrespectful to do so.
There is nothing stopping you from starting a new thread if you feel so strongly about it.
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Oh my god. For Christ`s sake.
Nobody hijacked anything.
Hell carry on with the thread, I`ll stay out if it bothers you that much to mention all of the folks paying the price.
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not that his death doesnt deeply saden me or anything but this is the third thread/argument on this issue. 1 in this forum. 2 in the oclub (one of them skuzzy has allready locked)
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How many of you actually knew Pat? Yeah, go ahead and praise him as a hero, as I believe all who serve are heros.
But he never wanted any attention, he only wanted to do what he felt was right. Now he is gone and all the media, and you all, are going against what he wanted anyway. When are people ever going to get it right that some people don't need rocognition for the deeds tha they do in life?
I served in the USMC myself for my own reasons, and I feel that everyone who serves in the service does it for their own reasons. I know so many that give up very lucrative jobs and great families to protect what they believe in and Pat is one of them people. He would be furious with the whole way everyone is making his death out to be something more than the fallen next to him.
Booky
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S> Tilly
I was a season ticket holder for several years when Tillman played for the Cardinals and he was one of the most respected players on the team from the fans point of view. He always gave 110% and put his safety on the line for the game, now he has done the same for our freedoms we enjoy now.
I am glad that there are people out there like Pat who are willing to sacrifice everything to protect the things others take for granted. I dont know anyone personally serving in Iraq or Afganistan, but I know this loss brings the war closer to home for me and my family.
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When are people ever going to get it right that some people don't need rocognition for the deeds tha they do in life
When are you going to get it right? It's more appreciation than recognition.
He would be furious
Speaking for dead guys now huh? Just about everyone in this thread acknowledged all of the fallen, and not just Tillman, you whack job.
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Pat Tillman
....nuf said.....
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>S< to all that serve and have made the ultimate sacrifice. Anyone who joins the Service today walk in with their eyes wide open to the chances that they may have to make that ultimate sacrifice, especially those that volunteer for special combat units.
Pat Tillman was a great American and gave his life for what he believed in. From what I know of him, he would be the first to "minimize" any tribute directed specifically to him and ask that all be equally recognized.
I don't reply much to these posts because of all the flaming and hijacking that occurs, but being a 20-year veteran and losing several friends to "peacetime" action, (AWACS bird strike in Alaska, A-10 mishap in AZ, Helicopter accident during MIA body recoveries in Vietnam, etc...) I understand what Jackal is saying. He didn't diminish any of the focus on Pat Tillman, he just said what Pat would say; "Don't forget about my fallen brothers and sisters".
But I also understand the motivation to recognize a great man like Pat Tillman. He is deserving of any and all the recognition he receives.
You are all violently agreeing that those that die in defense of our nation deserve recognition. Don’t diminish it with the petty bickering and name calling. :confused:
>S<
TITAN
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A Big
to Sgt Tillman A fine American and a great Ranger.
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Recognizing that I volunteered as a Ranger, fully knowing the hazards of my chosen profession, I will always endeavor to uphold the prestige, honor, and "esprit de corps" of the Ranger Regiment.
Acknowledging the fact that a Ranger is a more elite soldier who arrives at the cutting edge of battle by land, sea, or air, I accept the fact that as a Ranger my country expects me to move farther, faster and fight harder than any other soldier.
Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be. One hundred percent and then some.
Gallantly will I show the world that I am a specially selected and well trained soldier. My courtesy to superior officers, my neatness of dress and care for equipment shall set the example for others to follow.
Energetically will I meet the enemies of my country. I shall defeat them on the field of battle for I am better trained and will fight with all my might. Surrender is not a Ranger word. I will never leave a fallen comrade to fall into the hands of the enemy and under no circumstances will I ever embarrass my country.
Readily will I display the intestinal fortitude required to fight on to the Ranger objective and complete the mission, though I be the lone survivor.
Rangers Lead The Way