Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: ravells on April 24, 2004, 05:43:03 PM
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From when I first saw posts at the O'club, there has been this Euro/American divide.
I find this pretty odd, because the Americans I meet in real life are pretry much like us and there are nothing like the hatred that is exhibited from time to time on this board. In fact quite the contrary, we get on really well.
I would like to think that this whole Euro/American thing started awhile ago and has just been perpetuated from post to post by the few.
It's just bizarre that in virtually every sphere of life we are pretty much friends but when it comes to this small corner of a BBS we dwell upon our diffrences.
If we'd all met in a pub we'd have a good chat and be polite to each other. So why is so much spleen vented here?
It would be so nice for once, if a topical conversation didn't boil down into a pro/anti gun control debate or a difference about the details of our differences rather than the broad agreement we have.
Ravs
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What comes out when you vent your spleen? :confused: :D
People are just tards. Welcome to the internet.
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I think it's because the Europeans come here and act badly at times...
....ahhhh, just kidding of course :)
who knows? I think it's just a few people really.
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I've had a bit to drink (obviously)
and was just thinking how good it would be if we celebrated our communality rather than our differences.
(would make for a very boring BBS, I grant you)
Ravs
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Rav, it all boils down to their political beliefs. There are the "We saved yer arse and you should always kiss my feet" brigade mostly of conservative nature that feel their grandfathers contribution should be credited to them. Then there's the "WWII was 60 years ago, it's over" battallion that are mostly of a liberal mindset.
Since a majority of US members feet are firmly planted in the "Liberals are kin to Al-Queda, you are with us or you are against us" field, it gives off that "Ugly American" tone.
Personally, I fail to see anything to be gained by it. Nearly every European I have met in person was an intellegent, kind and entertaining person.
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rpm....I disagree entirely.
your women are much hotter in bed (from my limited experiece)
Ravs
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Originally posted by rpm371
Rav, it all boils down to their political beliefs. There are the "We saved yer arse and you should always kiss my feet" brigade mostly of conservative nature that feel their grandfathers contribution should be credited to them. Then there's the "WWII was 60 years ago, it's over" battallion that are mostly of a liberal mindset.
Since a majority of US members feet are firmly planted in the "Liberals are kin to Al-Queda, you are with us or you are against us" field, it gives off that "Ugly American" tone.
Personally, I fail to see anything to be gained by it. Nearly every European I have met in person was an intellegent, kind and entertaining person.
I thought Lib's didn't have a "black and white" view of things (as per many Lib posts here). :rolleyes:
As for the hotter in bed take, I strongly disagree. But, I have only tasted the fruit of southern European women, sorta southern Euro-belles I guess. ;)
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oh...and the other stuff you were saying
We are all a bit war centric because given the game we play this bbs attracts a certain microcosm. But..the least jingoistic people I've read on this BBS are people who have actually fought.
I dunno. I think that many Americans feel that they are isolated in a world sense so they lash out, but nothing could be further from the truth.
Ravs
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Most Euro's are so far left that many americans simply cannot relate. Also, since the U.S. is the big kid on the block, jealousy sometimes comes into play.
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Gosh! The girl from Georgia was dynamite. And the one from Minnestota was lovely and caring. The one from LA was just...er mad, but wow.
Ravs
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Steve, that is just not true. I've met many Americans (I do in my line of work) of every political persuasion. And I can guarntee you we have an excellent time together and dont let politics ruin it
Ravs
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Ravs, no doubt. But many times on this BBS politics is on the menu, and our differences become apparent. Besides, you cannot paint yourself as a typical European, imho.
It's not that Americans(forgive me for generalizing) dislike Europeans...most of us simply have a hard time stomaching socialist/appeasement talk. I bet if politics were off the table, we'd all have a grand time talking about various things. Although I am quite conservative, I love to hear about other cultures.
Once politics come into play though, I often feel like I am speaking w/ irrational people from another planet.
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We all want peace, don't we?
Ravs
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Oh don't get me wrong Rav....American women ARE hot. Most could just take a few lessons from the French, Greek and Italians I've known.:p
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Just wait till you marry one and she ends up seperating you from all your freinds....wittleing you down to the shell of the man you used to be....than bellybutton raping you in divorce court.
CHeck ou this site reguarding american woman
http://www.nomarriage.com/
as far as being hotter in bed...this may be true....but you still have to listen to the complain and whine all the time......the whole unshaved pits/legs is a real turn off to me. :lol
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The American women I've met could give the Europeans a few lessons I can tell you.
;)
you must have met all the wrong american women.
Ravs:)
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In that respect you Gunslinger, they're all the same.
You should listen to my brother..he's from Malaysia...same damn thing.
They all whine, they all want to own your life they all want to do 'sensible things' when we're having fun at midnight on bbses...it's just life!
Indian women are the worst...the come across so docile and when they've got you....whooomph.. you're a dead man.
Ravs
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Originally posted by ravells
In that respect you Gunslinger, they're all the same.
You should listen to my brother..he's from Malaysia...same damn thing.
They all whine, they all want to own your life they all want to do 'sensible things' when we're having fun at midnight on bbses...it's just life!
Indian women are the worst...the come across so docile and when they've got you....whooomph.. you're a dead man.
Ravs
LOL I lucked out with a pretty go german woman. Other than the compulsion to rearrange the furnature every 30 days she doesnt have too many querks just yet.
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Maybe it's an accent thing. Euro accents sound sexy to Americans. Are American accents sexy to Euro's?
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Deep South Accents are the sexiest accents in the world.
gunslinger: germans are logical people...best way to go!
Ravs
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We all want peace, don't we?
Yes, many American feel we have been forced to the point where we can only have peace thru victory over terrorists and those regimes that ally themselves w/ terrorism. Many Eurporeans think that we can co-exist w/ such regimes.
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"Dem jeans look a mighty good on ya, boy!"
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Got to agree Southern Belle's do sound sweet.
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I don't think it's that, Steve I think that many people, Europeans, and Americans believe that the planet has become so small that we have to find a way to live in peace and create some sort of dialogue so that it can happen.
Ravs
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that girl from Atlanta.......oh my god. I thought I was in an episode of #gone with the wind#
why don't you all speak like that!
Ravs
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Originally posted by ravells
I don't think it's that, Steve I think that many people, Europeans, and Americans believe that the planet has become so small that we have to find a way to live in peace and create some sort of dialogue so that it can happen.
Ravs
:aok
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Originally posted by ravells
From when I first saw posts at the O'club, there has been this Euro/American divide.
I find this pretty odd, because the Americans I meet in real life are pretry much like us and there are nothing like the hatred that is exhibited from time to time on this board. In fact quite the contrary, we get on really well.
I would like to think that this whole Euro/American thing started awhile ago and has just been perpetuated from post to post by the few.
It's just bizarre that in virtually every sphere of life we are pretty much friends but when it comes to this small corner of a BBS we dwell upon our diffrences.
If we'd all met in a pub we'd have a good chat and be polite to each other. So why is so much spleen vented here?
It would be so nice for once, if a topical conversation didn't boil down into a pro/anti gun control debate or a difference about the details of our differences rather than the broad agreement we have.
Ravs
I think, in reality, you'd find that the most vocal members of the I Hate Amereekans/Eurotypes squad are just suffering from little man syndrome in some form or another.
The more obnoxious the post, the more the poster probably looks like George Castanza.
The rest of us are just having a little fun.
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I hope so, Saudukar, but it's really easy to get sucked in. I've never had/seen this divide since I came to this BBS
Ravs
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find a way to live in peace and create some sort of dialogue so that it can happen.
Dialogue w/ terrorists and terrorist supporting regimes? To what end? See? Here comes the differences.
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Originally posted by ravells
I hope so, Saudukar, but it's really easy to get sucked in. I've never had/seen this divide since I came to this BBS
Ravs
Suck my fish and chips Eurotrash.
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Saur.
Steve...they see us as the terrorists, but this entire debate is irrelvant, because people....real people are dying. If we and they made peace people would not die.
ravs
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If we and they made peace people would not die.
You're kidding right? Peace w/ terrorists? We are worlds apart on this one.
So, since you claim they see us as terrorists, it's justifiable for them to blow up trains in Spain? Disco's in Israel?
fly planes full of civilians into buildings full of civilians, killing thousands?
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Steve, I'm not going to enter into a debate with you about this. Good people have died to make this world better place.
but you tell me, yes or no....wouldn't it be a better world if we could all live in peace?
And do you really think that one side bears all the blame and the other side none?
Ravs
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wouldn't it be a better world if we could all live in peace?
yes definiteley. And there can only be peace through victory, since our enemies will not quit.
And do you really think that one side bears all the blame and the other side none?
Yes, we didn't fly any planes into buildings full of civilians.
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wouldn't it be a better world if we could all live in peace?
Nice rhetoric. how about making a suggestion on how to accomplish this?
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Keep you bilious hatred to yourself, Steve.
I'm not going to respond.
Ravs
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Originally posted by Steve
Nice rhetoric. how about making a suggestion on how to accomplish this?
I can respond to this!
By making a start in trying to look at what we have in common rather than differences in ths BBS
If we cannot make peace on this BBS what chance do we have in world politics?
Ravs
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Keep you bilious hatred to yourself, Steve.
Your fantasy world must be a nice place to live. Maybe someday you will realize that there is evil in the world, that not all people are kind and tolerant. Until then the Tillmans' of the world will continue to put their lives on the line so you can pretend all is right with the world.
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I can respond to this!
It's an impossible conundrum for liberals. They want world peace but not thru arms, yet they offer no other alternative.
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Quite right.
so maybe you ought to make a start by being kind and tolerant.
ravs
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It seems that if you guys switched women then everything would be cool.
<-Neither Euro or American
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Mariied now............game over man!
Ravs
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so maybe you ought to make a start by being kind and tolerant.
I am, with exception of those people/countries who wish me harm. I guess I could walk up to the terrorists in Iraq and hand them a flower. Oh wait, other people have walked up to them and had their throats slit, then been mutilated and had their bodies hung from bridges. Well, I guess I should try anyway, just for the sake of being kind and tolerant.
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night Steve.
Take care, and god bless
ravs
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Hey Ravs, nice thread
I don't think anyone really hates euros, I think it's more like sibling rivalry to an extent.
The ladies.....I've never been with a lady who's company I didn't enjoy in some way. I've never met a lady that didn't have some redeeming quality or something that I didn't find attractive. but I become easily infatuated.
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storch...well, I think we have more in common..although we don't celebrate it except ocasionally on this BBs.
I'm like you with the ladies. I see good qualities in most people I meet.
Night! God bless!
Ravs
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For what it is worth, here is my take on it.
First, I am a conservative moderate. I do not necessarily believe that Europe owes me anything, despite the fact that World War II, which started (officially anyway) in Europe, despite the fact it cost my father his brother. I willingly acknowledge and appreciate that the British, the Russians, some of the French, and many other nations did do a great deal of the fighting and dying.
However, I do not appreciate the fact that a great many Europeans feel it is their place to tell me I should not own firearms, I know nothing of how to fight terrorism, my country should surrender at least a good portion of its sovereignty to the corrupt and shreckless United Nations, that my country is imperialist, that their foreign policy is dramatically superior to ours, and that we have no right to protect our security and national interests.
The U.S.A. has only been around just over 200 years. In that time, the U.S.A. has not once set out to conquer and territorialize/colonize any nation or region. The U.S.A. has not declared war on another nation without first being attacked or at least provoked, with the possible exception of the Spanish American War. Countries in Europe have declared war on the United States at least three or four times.
In any one century, the current one excluded since it is all of 4.5 years old, the major powers of Europe have declared war on each other or any one of a number of nations more than the U.S.A. has been at war in its entire history. There are few continents that at least one or more of the major powers of Europe have not at least tried to conquer and colonialize. Only in the last 50 years of the previous century has the biggest part of Europe been able to maintain anything that remotely resembles peace. The rest of any number of centuries you care to look at they stayed in a constant state of war and just generally attempted to screw the world up to the best of their ability.
And yet, despite all of that, the segment of the population I refer to as yerapeons (pronounced you're a peon) feels it is their duty and obligation to castigate the U.S.A. and criticize it at every turn and every available opportunity.
Basically, I'm sick of it. I've had all of that two faced holier than thou Bravo Sierra I want to hear for the rest of my life. I see no need for me to subject myself or my country to the crap they seem to like. I do not believe in it, I do not like it, and I do not want it. I have no desire to tell every European person I meet in person or on the Internet how they should live their life or run their country. I have no desire to force my opinions or wishes on them. I just want them to shut up and leave me alone and I'll return the favor. And I'd appreciate it if they would come pack up that corrupt garbage scow they call the United Nations and take it to some place like Brussels and start footing the entire bill for it.
I have no problem at all having a polite and friendly discussion with anyone. So long as they don't tell me how to live my life and that sort of thing. My collection of firearms and my right to carry them is none of their business. Nor is my choice of vehicle. it really is that simple. I do not like their political system (I don't really like ours either these days) I do not like their beloved socialist system, and I do not agree with their ideology. They like the way they do things where they live, and I like it here. That's why I live here. And I don't live there. I do plan to visit again. And when I'm there, I won't tell them they should do things my way, I'll just keep my mouth shut about such things and enjoy what I came for.
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(wife screaming for me to come to be so I'll make this brief)
Nobody, least of all me is telling you how to live your life, but what on earth made you think this discussion was about you having the right to bear arms?
Ravs
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Originally posted by ravells
(wife screaming for me to come to be so I'll make this brief)
Nobody, least of all me is telling you how to live your life, but what on earth made you think this discussion was about you having the right to bear arms?
Ravs
I didn't. Perhaps you misunderstood. I was merely explaining why many Americans have such diametricly opposed views from Europeans. The right to keep and bear arms was merely one of many points of disagreement, not by any stretch the focal point of the post. Again, perhaps due to my lack of eloquence or brevity, one thing seems to have been what you seem to focus on rather than the differing ideals as a whole. Sorry you missed what I was trying to say.
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Well, I was talking about peace.
Ravs
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Because modern day western Europe is like a teenager trying to establilsh an identity seperate from it's parent and protector, the USA.
It all boils down to that.
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Originally posted by ravells
Well, I was talking about peace.
Ravs
You asked about venting of spleen etc. and why. You also brought up the Europe - American divide. And you mentioned gun control.
Pardon me for making an effort to answer what I thought were actual questions and talking points, but may actually have been rhetorical. Thought I was providing the polite conversation you desired. Didn't realize this was a Rodney King "Why can't we all just get along" sort of thing. Hell I kinda like you, you seem to be a stand up guy.
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I was actually saying how nice it would be if the conversation did not boil down to a pro/anti gun debate.
perhaps you misread it?
I kinda like you too!
Ravs
ps seriously dead in the wife stakes now
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You see Rav, their (the conservatives) point is kill everyone that does not agree with them and it will be a perfect world. Ya know, the same idea the Nazi's had...and we saw how well that worked.
To these people ALL islamic's are terrorists, they can not understand that a few wacko's(fundamentalist clerics) are doing the manipulating. You could compare those terrorists in Iraq now to the Michigan Militia, KKK,and Branch Davidians in the US. They are acting on the words of their leader/preacher who happens to be a certified whack-job nutcase.
Thankfully there are some of us that know the difference.
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Originally posted by rpm371
You see Rav, their (the conservatives) point is kill everyone that does not agree with them and it will be a perfect world. Ya know, the same idea the Nazi's had...and we saw how well that worked.
To these people ALL islamic's are terrorists, they can not understand that a few wacko's(fundamentalist clerics) are doing the manipulating. You could compare those terrorists in Iraq now to the Michigan Militia, KKK,and Branch Davidians in the US. They are acting on the words of their leader/preacher who happens to be a certified whack-job nutcase.
Thankfully there are some of us that know the difference.
:eek:
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their (the conservatives) point is kill everyone that does not agree with them
Liberal propaganda lie, don't believe it.
To these people ALL islamic's are terrorists,
Liberal propaganda lie, don't believe it.
They are acting on the words of their leader/preacher who happens to be a certified whack-job nutcase.
Something we agree on. So if they kill Americans, is it not their fault because they were acting on the words of their leader/preacher?
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Originally posted by Steve
Liberal propaganda lie, don't believe it.
Typical Conservative ploy. Any opinion other that theirs is a lie.
Liberal propaganda lie, don't believe it.
Typical Conservative ploy. Any opinion other that theirs is a lie.
Something we agree on. So if they kill Americans, is it not their fault because they were acting on the words of their leader/preacher?
If we bomb a mosque full of praying unarmed civilians is that more to your taste? MMMMMM revenge!
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Typical Conservative ploy. Any opinion other that theirs is a lie.
You didn't mention an opinion, just falsely gave mine.
If we bomb a mosque full of praying unarmed civilians is that more to your taste? MMMMMM revenge!
Tell me, when have we done this? Are you such a twisted mind to believe that this is what conservatives think?
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So if they kill Americans, is it not their fault because they were acting on the words of their leader/preacher?
Answer the question.
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To Rav
My pastor isnt a wack job he probably agrees with you on the war on terror. TO denounce religoius people as wack jobs is highly fascist of you (OOPS I USED A LIBRAL TACTIC)
secondly. Name once were the michagain militia hijacked an airplane, blew up an embasy, slit a reporters throat, bombed a military barracks or commited any unprovoked act of violence
Third, when that somone cares more about a criminals right to go to a resort luxury prison than a law abiding citizin's right to own a gun...that offends me. I dont want to kill that person but I definatly dont want their MINORITY (nothing to do with race just numbers) view point to infringe apon my rights.
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the captain said it very well for me.
I have no problem getting along with anyone until they try to interfere in my life.. socialism and big government are threats to me. Most euros have become comfortable with a much higher level of both than I can tolerate.
This is fine but I do not want my country to participate. I do not want any country to vote on how I live. This includes the U.N. or some kind of "world court" or "environmental council" .... I want the right to bear arms and low taxes.
I am not angry when we discuss these things but assuming that you will bring me over to the 'more enlightened' euro version of life is where you run into problems... most eros first explain and then plead and then get angry when we don't come around...
there is the propblem.. the problem in most of these "discussions" is from the other end...
also... I find it a little strange all the talk about elections and presidents when the people talking can't even vote and don't know the culture. It seems pompous. Many euros seem pompous..."we were making stone axes (and still are in some cases) hundreds of years before your country existed"
It seems to me that most of the animosity comes from the euros who think they know how to run America... what makes this seem so ridiculous to most of us is that what they themselves have is not what the average American wants.
lazs
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My pastor isnt a wack job he probably agrees with you on the war on terror. TO denounce religoius people as wack jobs is highly fascist of you (OOPS I USED A LIBRAL TACTIC)
Gunslinger it was not Rav...I made the statement. Get the fingerpointing correct. I did not label ALL religious people as wack jobs...but there are a FEW out there that are stirring up hate. They are interpreting Islamic verse into their own meanings. Islam is fundamentally a religion of peace that has been hijacked. It happens in Christianity as well. Remember the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades? I don't think they were what Jesus had in mind. secondly. Name once were the michagain militia hijacked an airplane, blew up an embasy, slit a reporters throat, bombed a military barracks or commited any unprovoked act of violence
On the morning of April 19, 1995, Timothy McVeigh parked a rented Ryder truck with explosives in front of the Murrah Federal Building complex in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma and, at 9:02am, a massive explosion occurred which sheared the entire north side of the building, killing 168 people.
Third, when that somone cares more about a criminals right to go to a resort luxury prison than a law abiding citizin's right to own a gun...that offends me. I dont want to kill that person but I definatly dont want their MINORITY (nothing to do with race just numbers) view point to infringe apon my rights.
Where did you pull that nugget from? Nevermind I have a pretty good idea. Nobody said anything about Luxury Prisons in this entire thread except you. Also, I believe Christianity is a MINORITY religion...so we should make the MAJORITY conform to us?
Now on to Steve-o:
So if they kill Americans, is it not their fault because they were acting on the words of their leader/preacher?ANSWER THE QUESTION.
It is just as right as us killing innocent civilians. Killing innocent civilians whether they are American, British, Laplanders or Iraqi's is wrong. Have we done it? Sure we have. Will we do it again? You know we will. Will it be "Collateral Damage"? Most likely. I don't think we will intentionally carpet bomb the masses, but there will be those killed by targeting error, POOR INTEL (naa, not the USA!), or just plain itchy trigger fingers. It's an ugly buisness, War. And Steve, I didn't falsely give your opinion, I gave a reply in kind to yours. The last time I checked Non-Republicans and Non-Conservatives were still allowed to have an opinion...or have Bush and Ashcroft outlawed that in the name of "Homeland Security"?
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I think Euros have an attitude of "look our culture is thousands of years old, yadayadayada" so we know better. What they fail to realize is that,
1. Bye and large most Americans are Euro-centric. even the "Hispanics" the largest minority in America which are categorized here as separate from white are from cultures that were colonized by Europeans.
2. The people who left Europe for America did so for many a reason. I believe it was mainly economic or because they were tired of the same Eurochikenshirt I am tired of today.
The United States owes nothing to Europe.
Europe owes much to the United States, especially in the 20th Century.
We have emerged as a the only super power through the superiority of our political system and the co-mingling of the world's genes here. We are a strong people because of the E Pluribus Unum thing.
There is no member of any race no matter how oppressed here that does not have examples of members who have succeeded inspite of the odds. In my town there was a black man, D.A. Dorsey who became a multimillionaire around the turn of the 20th century here in Miami. He donated so much land for schools, parks and money for civic projects that there are square miles of town where you are always running into his memory. In those days Miami was very much a southern American town.
When we (the Cubans) arrived here in 1960, Miami was a sleepy winter touristy town where they rolled up the streets and sidewalks at 9:00 pm. Through the opportunity afforded us by the American system the story of the Cuban people in exile is one of brilliant rapid success. Peasants from a foreign land were wealthy in a decade through their personal industry within a system that rewards an intelligent, organized work ethic. I am a naturalized American citizen and I know first hand the advantages of the the American system because I am the beneficiary of the unique equity of that free enterprise system. My town, Miami, Florida United States of America is a shining beacon to the world pointing to the possibilities which are today embodied in America.
America is strong and will remain strong as long as our political system remains faithfully tied to the ideals of those brilliant, inspired men who conceived of our unique way of governing. go ahead and start flaming and bring up the slavery issue of 215 years ago. go ahead and point out the hypocrasy of the those documents. the fact is that today, the American way is the best way, it's the wisest way, the most equitable way and the place where most of the world's population aspires to come to.
I don't hate Euros, hell they are a rich source of comedy and amusement for me. God bless Euorpe (God knows it needs it)
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yep... we tell the germans that 'our germans are smarter than your germans" we tell africa that "our blacks are faster than your blacks' and so on.. most euros have to rely on the same gene pool that got em turned into 3rd world countries in the first place.
lazs
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Storch, is that a troll??
Cant believe you are writing things like that in a serious way;)
Oh yes about comedy and amusement.... :D
To be serious some people writing here seems to have the need to convince themselves that someone ( why in the hell Europeans??)must have the need to hate or at lest tease their country.
Sure US have enemies around the world, there's no need to find others where they are not.
Gosh... you ended speaking of gene pool (racial superiority??)
The funny thing is that luckily this seems only an exageration showed by people on this BBS.
I mean , I live near Camp Darby US base (Leghorn)
I have many friends between Americans servicing and livin there.
Most part of them and their families have their house outside the base, so there are strict relations with people here.
I spend some time outside and inside the base (the civil portion)
with them. Talking with them, even of political arguments, has never come out this sensation of bein teased or diminished or hated by Euros;
and I'm talking of people living their life here, not speaking for what they read , or what they think things could be watching some junkTV (n.b. junk TV may be all over the world not only in US)
Thats why I think on this BBS someone is a litlle bit paranoid (no offence, my limited dictionary dont suggest me another word), and
persuaded to express correctly the reasons of a country, while is showing only his fears and misleaded sensations
In the end Storch, if you really think that ,
"America is strong and will remain strong...............the American way is the best way, it's the wisest way, the most equitable way and the place where most of the world's population aspires to come to. "
that's good for you, nothing to object, its normal that someone is proud of/love his country, but why do you have to add those lines??
"I don't hate Euros, hell they are a rich source of comedy and amusement for me. God bless Euorpe (God knows it needs it)"
That leaves a taste of bitterness that has little reason to show
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Learnt anything Ravs?
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I think if we just all tried a little harder we could all get along. Peace...it's a wacky concept.
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Originally posted by rpm371
I think if we just all tried a little harder we could all get along. Peace...it's a wacky concept.
Peace will occur when the human race is no more. Peace is a pipe dream. There will always be warring factions, and there will always be a counter to those warring factions.
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Maybe, but almost every faction thinks they are THE counter...
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Originally posted by deSelys
Maybe, but almost every faction thinks they are THE counter...
Yep, thus the endless cycle, as well as the endless cycle, generation after generation, of those less intelligent-types thinking "Peace in our time". Won't happen. Even if everyone was an optimist and a pacifist, there'd be some ******* that would go psycho...
Best to have children or save the whales, Peace is impossible.
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Originally posted by ravells
From when I first saw posts at the O'club, there has been this Euro/American divide.
I find this pretty odd, because the Americans I meet in real life are pretry much like us and there are nothing like the hatred that is exhibited from time to time on this board. In fact quite the contrary, we get on really well.
I would like to think that this whole Euro/American thing started awhile ago and has just been perpetuated from post to post by the few.
It's just bizarre that in virtually every sphere of life we are pretty much friends but when it comes to this small corner of a BBS we dwell upon our diffrences.
If we'd all met in a pub we'd have a good chat and be polite to each other. So why is so much spleen vented here?
It would be so nice for once, if a topical conversation didn't boil down into a pro/anti gun control debate or a difference about the details of our differences rather than the broad agreement we have.
Ravs
well American that you and i meet arent so, coz they are probably a bit more cosmopolit and they were at least once abroad, so they have some basic overview.
Somehow some people here belive to live in the only country with hot water during the winter time.
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Learnt anything Ravs?
On this BBS? Much more than I thought I would. The people who have made re-examine my values most are Lasz and Miko.
In this thread? When I first made the post, I was thinking in terms of certain 'black holes' that threads grativate to (very often regardless of what the topic is about). The 'black holes' being: Euro/American difference, Gun Control, Conservative vs. Liberal in the main. Once the threads get sucked in there, the script becomes very predictable. I don't know how these 'black holes' got started, but they seem so well worn now that they almost set the tone of the destination of many a thread. This is why I like it when, say, Rip occasionally posts pics of family holidays or Nuke of the latest model he's building - they seem black hole proof.
IMO BBS threads are less like real life conversations and more like film or drama, I think - the more confrontational they are and the more extreme they are, the more entertaining they can be to read but they start losing touch with reality. I think this is partly because you're not stainding in the same room as the people you are talking to, so you can adopt a level of behaviour you wouldn't otherwise adopt in real life.
Ravs
p.s. thank you for your replies, everyone.
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rav.. people on this board who have met me in person will tell you that I am even worse in the same room standing next to you.
I think a lot of the animosity comes from the fact that euros don't bathe regularly.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
I think a lot of the animosity comes from the fact that euros don't bathe regularly.
lazs
lol...and the pot is stirred one more time.
;)
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Originally posted by lazs2
rav.. people on this board who have met me in person will tell you that I am even worse in the same room standing next to you.
I think a lot of the animosity comes from the fact that euros don't bathe regularly.
lazs
Yeah but we smell better than you (person) after a shower.
The more I read from you the more I like you Lazs :aok
Daniel
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
The U.S.A. has only been around just over 200 years. In that time, the U.S.A. has not once set out to conquer and territorialize/colonize any nation or region. The U.S.A. has not declared war on another nation without first being attacked or at least provoked, with the possible exception of the Spanish American War. Countries in Europe have declared war on the United States at least three or four times.
Not sure if you are talking about Spain (possible exception,) but one consequence of the Spanish American War was the acquisition of the Philippines.
Now, Spain had little success in pacifying the Philippines, but we had great success. Let me quote a few lines from "The Flyboys by James Bradley."
America would cause the deaths of more than 250,000 Filipinos - men, women and children from 1899 to 1902.
The majority of the Filipinos killed by the Americans were civilians.
Anthony Michea of the Third Artillery wrote "We killed every native we met, men, women and children" (in the town of Malabon.)
I want no prisoners one American general ordered. "I wish you to kill and burn, the more you kill and burn the better it will please me." Asked for age clarification, the general replied in writing to kill all those above ten years of age.
And finally, most damning, "Americans back home knew what was happening in the Philippines."
So get off your high horse feller, America has done plenty of colonizing and conquering.
BTW, the book is well-researched with cited sources.
curly
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That is considered "plenty" of colonizing to you? And... leaving kids alive under 10 but killing everyone else seems plain dumb... they might carry a grudge doncha think?
will read the book but are you saying that all those 250,000 killed of which "most" were women and children... were killed by U.S. soldiers... what? bayoneting em or maybe just rounding them up and executing them?
I would say that in WWII and even WWI when a town or city was bombed or shelled... that "most" of the casualties were women and children.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
That is considered "plenty" of colonizing to you? And... leaving kids alive under 10 but killing everyone else seems plain dumb... they might carry a grudge doncha think?
will read the book but are you saying that all those 250,000 killed of which "most" were women and children... were killed by U.S. soldiers... what? bayoneting em or maybe just rounding them up and executing them?
lazs
I'm not saying anything Lazs - just quoting from "The Flyboys." But to answer your question concerning women/children, they were killed by American soldiers. I don't recall a favorite method. They executed (presumably rifles) many, but definitely "pacified" villages (bayonets.)
The book is fascinating. The primary story being told is the cannibalism that occured on Chichi Jima by the Japanese. George Bush Sr. escaped ending up on the menu by a hairs width.
Bush's TBM sustained heavy damage during a bombing run and had to ditch at sea. As he was paddling along in his raft, the Japanese launched boats to collect him. He paddled faster. :) In a few minutes, an American submarine plucked him out of the water before the Japanese boats reached him.
"The Flyboys" spends a lot of time demonizing America military behavior (native americans, philippines primarily.) He does this because he's about to lay an extremely heavy hit on the Japanese. If you read the book without proper perspective, you would be tempted to say "why those dirty Japs!" But he forces you to compare Japanese and American behavior. It balances out and makes for a fascinating true story.
curly
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hmm... just saying.. I can't imagine an official policy that advocated the killing of civilians in more than a collateral way. I don't particularly believe in killing cities and the civilians im em but it is a pretty much acepted way of war when shelling and bombing are concerned. I have read on the pacific war tho and at our most brutal we never aproched the cruelty of the japs who were, by the way, the ones who set the tone.
I have also read on the indian wars and the indians were far more brutal than the American soldiers.
I have never heard about the phillipines being so brutal before... I would have thought that some pony tailed academic dunesbury reader would have mentiond these thousands of mai lai's by now tho.
Will check out the book when I have time. You say it is well documented? makes things like the A bomb pale.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
hmm... just saying.. I can't imagine an official policy that advocated the killing of civilians in more than a collateral way.
I have also read on the indian wars and the indians were far more brutal than the American soldiers.
I have never heard about the phillipines being so brutal before... I would have thought that some pony tailed academic dunesbury reader would have mentiond these thousands of mai lai's by now tho.
Will check out the book when I have time. You say it is well documented? makes things like the A bomb pale.
lazs
Concerning the brutality of the native Americans, my grandparents entered North Texas during the 1880s. The Comanche wars were really grinding down by then, but the fear of them had not diminished. My maternal grandfather told me some horrible tales ... he might have been stretching the truth though. :)
So far as the "pony tailed academic," well Lazs, guess who records this stuff and perpetuates it? All professions are rich in jerks, including academia. Why I'll bet you could even name a gun-toting jerk if you wanted to.
The book is indexed with a bibliography and extensive notes referencing the bibliography.
curly
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It is just as right as us killing innocent civilians.
Pure unadulterated BS that I find difficult that even you would believe. The U.S. is no different than the terroists regarding the targeting of civilians? Do you believe, in any corner of your mind that the U.S. deliberately targets, even encourages the murder of innocent civilians? Do you seriously put the U.S. on that same par?
Steve, I didn't falsely give your opinion, I gave a reply in kind to yours.
Yes you did, you said:
their (the conservatives) point is kill everyone that does not agree with them
I'm a conservative, and I know many conservatives and not one of them have this opinion. As I said, your statement is an outright lie.
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Would be great to live on the north or south pole for 6 months.....unless THE THING comes... that is one scary mf
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Would be great to live on the north or south pole for 6 months.....unless THE THING comes... that is one scary mf
Quick, Nilsen, who had the role of "The Thing" in its first version ... oh, maybe 1950.
curly
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Originally posted by Steve
Do you believe, in any corner of your mind that the U.S. deliberately targets, even encourages the murder of innocent civilians? Do you seriously put the U.S. on that same par?
Steve, what is the context? Ever? Never?
curly
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Ever, as a matter of policy.
Targets civilians as the primary target. Bombing a mosque where terrorists are shooting from, with the possibility that civilians are inside does not count as targeting civilians as . i.e. ohhh say.... targeting the World Trade Center would.
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Quick, Nilsen, who had the role of "The Thing" in its first version ... oh, maybe 1950
Fuzzy.. used to know this stuff. James Arness?
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Suck my fish and chips Eurotrash.
good comeback, Costanza :)
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Originally posted by Steve
Ever, as a matter of policy.
Targets civilians as the primary target. Bombing a mosque where terrorists are shooting from, with the possibility that civilians are inside does not count as targeting civilians as . i.e. ohhh say.... targeting the World Trade Center would.
Sure, I think any liberal or conservative would agree with you.
I just wanted to make sure that you weren't saying that we hadn't deliberately targeted civilian populations in the past, because we have.
curly
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have no idea AKcurly. I could pretend to know by googeling first but that would be cheating..................i never cheat :)
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Originally posted by Steve
Fuzzy.. used to know this stuff. James Arness?
Yep. :)
curly
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Ok.. from what I have heard here the guy is maybe not too big on documentation... this makes sense to me because what he is saying is outlandish and would be the type of thing that liberal academics (the majority of academics) would be using daily as a guilt trip on the rest of us if there were any truth to it at all...
the indian wars for instance have been really distorted with the indians as sorta... early day hippies that went out of their way to not step on ants and such instead of the real indian who would run heard of buffaloa off bluffs to get a little mean and skins and would find nothing more joyfull than spending a nice couple of days torturing a settler and his family before the people had the bad taste to die and ruin the fun. Yet, the fact that there were white atrocities is gone over in great length and repetedly.
Now it appears... the japs may have been latter day hippies only giving back what they got to the white devils.
Plus... it now appears that we went on some bosnian like genocide purge in the phillipiens that has up till now escaped everyones attention.
oh... what I mean is... I will wait till my library has a copy.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
Ok.. from what I have heard here the guy is maybe not too big on documentation... this makes sense to me because what he is saying is outlandish and would be the type of thing that liberal academics (the majority of academics) would be using daily as a guilt trip on the rest of us if there were any truth to it at all...
Now it appears... the japs may have been latter day hippies only giving back what they got to the white devils.
Plus... it now appears that we went on some bosnian like genocide purge in the phillipiens that has up till now escaped everyones attention.
oh... what I mean is... I will wait till my library has a copy.
lazs
The book is approximately 400 pages long. I would estimate he spends maybe 5-10 pages discussing what happened to native americans and filipinos.
I would estimate the atrocities visited on the Chinese occupy the largest part of the book.
He includes an interview of George Bush, Sr. since he was almost a dinner guest.
As I said, good read, you'll probably learn a few things - I certainly did.
curly