Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Virage on April 25, 2004, 11:21:45 AM
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Did the R2800 have a limitation on inverted flight?
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I recall that F6F's, at least, could fry the engine if engaged in extensive inverted flight. Don't know if same problem affactted the F4U or not.
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I do believe the P47 could not sustain inverted flight.
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Most piston engined aircraft didn't have the ability to fly inverted for extended periods, to include R2800 equipped aircraft. The reason was the oil system was unable to function properly when inverted, resulting in engine damage. The P47 flight manual says not to fly inverted for more than 15 seconds at a shot.
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Originally posted by Virage
Did the R2800 have a limitation on inverted flight?
R2800's would fry if inverted for two seconds, but not modeled in AH
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
R2800's would fry if inverted for two seconds, but not modeled in AH
that is wrong.
the R2800-8W used in the early corsair before the -4, the 2800-10W used in the Hellcat -3 and -5 series and the R2800-21, -59, and -63 used in the C and D series P47. The the R2800-18W and present in the -4 series of the Corsair and -6 series of the Hellcat will sustain loss of oil pressure if it remains inverted in a NEGATIVE G environment for more than 8 seconds, as it takes time for the sump to drain all of its oil, and the scavenger takes the oil from the sump. The engine will not CEASE operation at this point, because it simply does not lose it's oil cooling abilty, the oil, will continually be splashed in the case, but new, cooler oil will not enter the system from the tank as the tank sump will be dry. If left in this attitude (which depends HIGHLY on the specific situation), damage could be sustained, but is not guaranteed.
In Positive G maneuvers this is not a problem, as the oil system continues to function as though the engine is upright. In reality the only time this is going to pose a problem in flight are inverted maneuvers that exhibit negative G's for prolonged periods of time, and as the R-2800 Radial is a highly survivable engine, that is capable of returning an aircraft on residual spalsh oil even with cylinders shot away, Losing most of it's oil to begin with...
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in warbirds you can destroy your engine if you go inverted for too long.
you can actually see the oil gauge going down.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
that is wrong.
2 seconds, 8 seconds, an eternity...Fly inverted in AH...it is not modeled there.
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
2 seconds, 8 seconds, an eternity...Fly inverted in AH...it is not modeled there.
You don't fly real aircraft do you? 6 seconds IS an eternity when it comes to true Negative G flight as it is applied to the engine. Secondly, the engine, while not recommended by the AIRCRAFT manufacturer is recommended beyond that time frame because of the residual cooling factor of the existing oil, and airflow over the cooling fins.
Yet, I am sure you "knew" that and were just being sarcastic for the fun of it...
PS. I restore and fly WW2 aircraft for a living...
;)
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Originally posted by Bodhi
You don't fly real aircraft do you?
;)
No, I only fly virtual A/C, and although I did not pick up my virtual A/C flight manual, it's a fact that you can fly for over 8 seconds inverted, and not suffer engine damage.
I'm not sure how long aircraft engines can or can't fly in RL, but in the game as it does not pertain to my job field directly....read last post...
PS. I am a mental health counselor...
:)
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but are you mental healthy?
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Bodhi,
What have you flown??
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over 1000 hours tt
400 in tail draggers
290 hrs in AT-6 / SNJ
25 hours in B-25
multiple other hours in warbirds.
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Bodhi,
I always wanted to know how come nobody ever did any real life testing in their warbirds.
Like climb, speed or roll test.
I know of a test done in 1989 by a group of test pilots (SETP) that was well documented but I have never heard of any private pilots doing this.
I know there are self imposed restrictions on MAP and other structural limits followed because the A/C are so old but I sure would like to see someone ring out a couple of those old birds.
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Lucky Bastig Bodhi,
Can someone say Dream Job :D
let see 290 hours in a T6 at 50gals per hour, at 2.50 a gal. = $36,250.00 I'm green with envy. :D
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Originally posted by mars01
Lucky Bastig Bodhi,
Can someone say Dream Job :D
let see 290 hours in a T6 at 50gals per hour, at 2.50 a gal. = $36,250.00 I'm green with envy. :D
I pay about $1.95 a gallon mars, and to top it off, I lean her back so that cruise gets a bit better than 50 / hr.
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Originally posted by F4UDOA
Bodhi,
I always wanted to know how come nobody ever did any real life testing in their warbirds.
Like climb, speed or roll test.
I know of a test done in 1989 by a group of test pilots (SETP) that was well documented but I have never heard of any private pilots doing this.
I know there are self imposed restrictions on MAP and other structural limits followed because the A/C are so old but I sure would like to see someone ring out a couple of those old birds.
F4u,
thats is because 99% of the warbirds flying are not like the originals. ie most of the wartime equipment is stripped and the armor replaced with aluminum to save on weight. Top that off with the fact that most of the Corsairs flying do not use the original -18w or the -8w and you have a problem.... the tests would reflect innaccurate data. There is a small movement within the community that I am a part of, called "total compliance" and it's doctrine is 100% authentic unless a safety of flight issue. That said, there are about 10 people that can afford to do it this way. Thankfully I am working with one of those people.
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How many gals/ph can you get it dialed down to?
yeah, I'm in Southern New England, I think were up to 2.65 +/- 10 or 20 cents depending on where you go.
A guy had a nice T6 at my last FBO. I thought man what cool plane to own until I found out what it burned. It's a rich mans plane.:D
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Can the T-6 fly inverted for long?
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Originally posted by Virage
Can the T-6 fly inverted for long?
We can do clover leafs all day long until we turn blue in the face, but if you hang the aircraft upside down for long, the fuel will be cut off as the tanks are not equipped to take in fuel at the sump while upside down in negative g's... that said, just keep it positive and you can do anything, including beautiful snap rolls, which are not recommended in a 51. The one thing I do not like about the T6 is the spin, it's lethal below 6k. The "6" is a true ball buster and will defintiely keep you honest as it was designed to be difficult so that when our pilots jumped into the fighters, they would be easier to fly, and they would be experienced in supposedly anything that might come along.
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mars, I had the exact same thought about owning an A-1K Skyraider, a Sharps rifle, and the Huey a local guy has for sale. Sure, it'd be all fine and dandy to have all this killer stuff, but the paycheck hits would be murder! That A-1K gets around 180 gals/hr in cruise, the Sharps needs $100 for every 20 rounds of ammo, and the Huey? DEAR GOD! If you average it out, it costs nearly 5 grand an hour to run that thing! I'll stick to paying for a short hop in a Piper, chunking down $5 for 100 rounds of .22 LR, and Hueys are something I'll only touch in a flight sim.
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Originally posted by mars01
How many gals/ph can you get it dialed down to?
yeah, I'm in Southern New England, I think were up to 2.65 +/- 10 or 20 cents depending on where you go.
A guy had a nice T6 at my last FBO. I thought man what cool plane to own until I found out what it burned. It's a rich mans plane.:D
economical cruise we can squeeze out about 22-26 gph
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Hey mars ... we need to make a roadtrip to Colorado ... :D
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Hell Yeah!!:aok I'm in.:D
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Originally posted by frank3
but are you mental healthy?
Ask my shrink, I bribe him well enough to give you a positive reply :)
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Originally posted by mars01
Hell Yeah!!:aok I'm in.:D
Southern New England? What part, I'm from Newport
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I'm in CT.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Hey mars ... we need to make a roadtrip to Colorado ... :D
You guys will always be welcome