Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: NUKE on April 26, 2004, 11:12:05 PM
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Why not post your off topic remarks in a different thread? Seems reasonable.
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Sure, but when a thread topic is this : "Patriotism defined" It DOES diminish the sacrifices of those who were there before, are there right now, and will be there in the future.
-SW
That's the thread's title, not it's topic. Even the title doesn't diminish anyone, maybe you can enlighten me as to how it does. Maybe you think naming a military base or school or road after someone diminishes all the others who served?
Honoring Pat Tillman is no different than honoring other specific individules and I saw nothing in the Article that diminished, in any way, others who serve or served.
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Are you retarded? A thread's SUBJECT is its topic.
And as far as how it diminishes anyone else, it states that this man is patriotism defined while the nameless hundreds to the public are simply... soldiers? I dunno, you tell me - you all seem to think patriotism requires giving up money.
-SW
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No question... the late Mr. Tillman was probably a better man than any of his NFL peers.
That said... there are hundreds (if not thousands) of Rangers (and other soldiers) that are every bit his equal.
Of course, that's just my opinion.
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Are you retarded? A thread's SUBJECT is its topic.
-SW
I have to agree, however, you said the thread's SUBJECT was defining patriotism, when in fact the SUBJECT or TOPIC was Pat Tillman. Or maybe you explain tol me how the thread was not about Pat Tillman?
Of course I do appreciate you going into attack mode by calling me names rather than respond to my points.
The TITLE of the thread has little to do with the SUBJECT. The first post in the thread was a link to an article about Pat Tillman. The topic of the thread was Pat Tilllman..... at least for 98% of the people bright enough to figure that out.
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Originally posted by NUKE
That's the thread's title, not it's topic. Even the title doesn't diminish anyone, maybe you can enlighten me as to how it does.
Well, when he died, alot of us put his picture in their avatar, yet through the hundreds who have died before him, I can't remember any of them in an avatar.
Maybe it doesn't diminish anyone, maybe it puts him in our thoughts more than the rest, maybe it does neither, just an observation. One that Pat Tillman would probably notice.
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Originally posted by Sandman
No question... the late Mr. Tillman was probably a better man than any of his NFL peers.
That said... there are hundreds (if not thousands) of Rangers (and other soldiers) that are every bit his equal.
Of course, that's just my opinion.
I agree completely...just don't see how people could think a story about one of them diminished the others in any way.
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I didn't call you anything Nuke, I asked you a question. Stating a topic, then singling out one man who gave his life as the defintion of that topic is ludicrous and asinine to me.
I have family members who did far more, but they weren't a media icon because they weren't a NFL player or didn't give up money. Rather, they gave up their own protection (ie: no guns, but were medics) or their own lives for their fellow man. I have friends who are in the same situation, one going Ranger - and another who is National Guard but is now in Afghanistan - and I won't ever see them on the news or in the publics eye.
Its interesting to see everyone run with what the media prints out, yeah - he gave up millions, and his life... but IMO the former is not greater than the latter and makes him no more of an American Hero in my eyes than anyone else who has given the latter for others.
The only reason any of you know his name, or the media even gives two ****s, is because he was in the public's eye beforehand... otherwise, there'd never have been any threads about him.
THATs what kills me.
-SW
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Well, when he died, alot of us put his picture in their avatar, yet through the hundreds who have died before him, I can't remember any of them in an avatar.
And I can't remember many others who made world news by having a unique story and outlook on life, which to me was an enlightening and inspirational story. Would you rather have not heard his story?
Ever wonder why they make movies about certain people and not everyone else? It's because there is a unique story or person behind them...it's not to diminish all the others.
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Keep in mind that most young people who join the military do so to improve there lives.
To get money for college and so on.
SGT Tillman on the other hand one could say had it all and chose to give it up for love of his country and fellow country men.
That Is what I think makes him just a little different.
Ask yourselves If you were a pro ball player making millions of dollars a year living the good life would YOU give it up
to become a Ranger(no easy feat in of itself) and go of to fight an ugly war?
That Is the core right there .
Most enlisted men had the choice of either working at quick lube or joining the military to get college money.
SGT Tillman as you can see was special.
Maybe his death can make us all think of ALL the young Americans giving there lives in this war.
God Bless them all.
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Shhhh.
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Title in a local newspaper : "He Objects to Fighting, But Is Willing to Help"
Story: "A local conscientious objector has been awarded the Bronze Star Medal in Vietnam.
Pfc. **** * *****, son of Mr. and Mrs. **** *****, address removed, was awarded the medal for hreoism in connection with military operations against hostile forces.
According to Mrs. *****, 'He didn't believe in the killing over there but he said he was willing to help out in some way. And he is.'
***** was awarded a conscientious objector status and began serving as an unarmed medic.
Serving in ******* since April 20, ***** distinguished himself by his actions May 21 while serving with Company B, 1st Battlaion, 5th Infanty.
Company B was in a sweep operation when a member of the unit tripped a booby-trap. Leaving his position, ***** moved through two hedgerows to aid the wounded soldier.
As ***** administered aid, another soldier was wounded from a mine explosion.
Satisfied with the treatment of the first soldier, ***** went to the aid of the second.
Although the blast ahd severed both of the soldier's legs, ***** kept the man from dying.
Thus, according to the citation, *****'s actions were directly responsible for saving two men's lives."
Something like that would never see state wide, let alone national, news back then nor now-a-days.
-SW
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Originally posted by NUKE
And I can't remember many others who made world news by having a unique story and outlook on life
That's my point, i'm sure alot of them had a unique story and outlook on life, ones you could write movies about.
Would you rather have not heard his story?
I would like to hear all of them
Ever wonder why they make movies about certain people and not everyone else?
Because they get more publicity. I'm not saying we shouldn't acknowledge what Pat Tillman's life was about, just that we should acknowledge the rest just as much. As a matter of fact, because of Pat Tillman, maybe we will look for the names of the rest who died instead of just the number that were killed. I have been searching for one to put in my avatar, and I am finding many unique stories.
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
I didn't call you anything Nuke, I asked you a question. Stating a topic, then singling out one man who gave his life as the defintion of that topic is ludicrous and asinine to me.
-SW
So you only asked me a question, LOL. Would that be something you would ask somebody in normal, respectful conversation?
So you are saying that if the Title of the Thread was Pat Tillman, then you would have no problem with it? I think there is a thread titled "Pat Tillman" in the general forums. Did you comment there?
And since when is a thread's title the subject in here? Rip probably didn't think of all the political angles and complications when he titled the thread, big deal, you and I know what the subject was.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
And I can't remember many others who made world news by having a unique story and outlook on life
That's my point, i'm sure alot of them had a unique story and outlook on life, ones you could write movies about.
Would you rather have not heard his story?
I would like to hear all of them
So if you posted a thread about one of them, then others came in and tried to say detract from that story, you would have no problem with that? Wouldn't it be hypocritical of you to post a story about one of them? You wouldn't want to detract from all the others that serve afterall.
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You want respect? If I knew you and you knew me, I would have asked you the same exact thing - but with better emphasis.
If the subject of the thread were, "NFL pro turned hero" ****, thats what the thread is about and what I've got respect for him doing. "Patriotism defined" is downright ignorance, because there are far more patriots that truly defined that word than him - past, present, and no doubt future. As far as the "General forums" - this is one. Unless you meant the AH General Discussion forum, in which case I don't browse it - because I don't play the game anymore - so there is no way I'd comment in it.
Rip starts only political threads since the popular presidential politics began this past year, prior to that it was WMDs. When he titled the thread, well I didn't think anything like you... nor did I read his thread until late Monday.
-SW
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I used to have a web site url of all the casulties from the war so far.
It showed thereb pics and what units they where in.
It to me was very sad to look at all the very young faces that are gone now.
Anyone know of that website?
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it states that this man is patriotism defined
He was!
I have family members who did far more, but they weren't a media icon because they weren't a NFL player or didn't give up money. Rather, they gave up their own protection (ie: no guns, but were medics) or their own lives for their fellow man. I have friends who are in the same situation, one going Ranger - and another who is National Guard but is now in Afghanistan - and I won't ever see them on the news or in the publics eye.
Wulfe, maybe they are patriotism defined too! It doesn't mean Tillman isn't. Doncha think patriotism can have more than one hat? don't gainsay Tillman because the media isn't mentioning your loved ones. America is no less grateful to the others that died.
My thanks to your friends and relatives who serve(d).
When I was young enough to serve, I was too selfish to see my duty as a citizen. I'm grateful that Tillman, your relatives, and your friends saw the need. It's the biggest regret I have in my life now, that I was too self absorbed to serve. Your relatives, friends and Tillman remind me that I need to appreciate that they are putting on the line (for me!) that which I was not willing to put on the line for them and others. It's truly humbling.
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Originally posted by NUKE
So if you posted a thread about one of them, then others came in and tried to say detract from that story, you would have no problem with that?
I have no problem with anything, you aked me a question, I gave you an answer.
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/all I can say is tillman is a better man then I.
I ended my contract w/ the Marine Corps after being Re-activated for 9/11. My wife was pregnant at the time and my country called...but all they did was treat me like a reservist and send me to hawaii to stand a security post for some airfield......how selfish of me.
I signed up orriginally back in 96 I still had time to give in the IRR to complain about my specific situation
the truth is I wasnt in harms way...pat tillman was...I served and so did he but who was the bigger man.
I respect the man and pray for his family I didnt do much with my calling...he did
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
You want respect? If I knew you and you knew me, I would have asked you the same exact thing - but with better emphasis.
If the subject of the thread were, "NFL pro turned hero" ****, thats what the thread is about and what I've got respect for him doing. "Patriotism defined" is downright ignorance, because there are far more patriots that truly defined that word than him - past, present, and no doubt future. As far as the "General forums" - this is one. Unless you meant the AH General Discussion forum, in which case I don't browse it - because I don't play the game anymore - so there is no way I'd comment in it.
Rip starts only political threads since the popular presidential politics began this past year, prior to that it was WMDs. When he titled the thread, well I didn't think anything like you... nor did I read his thread until late Monday.
-SW
Yeah, I want to have a respectful conversation.
I guess you are right about Pat Tillman, just a guy that enlisted in the army, nothing else is unique about him or worthy of mention.
He's definately not much of a patriot compaired to "thousands" of others......which is quite hypocritical of you to say, isn't it? Isn't your point that they are all equal? Yet you put others above that "football player" who enlisted.
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Originally posted by Gnslngr
/all I can say is tillman is a better man then I.
I ended my contract w/ the Marine Corps after being Re-activated for 9/11. My wife was pregnant at the time and my country called...but all they did was treat me like a reservist and send me to hawaii to stand a security post for some airfield......how selfish of me.
I signed up orriginally back in 96 I still had time to give in the IRR to complain about my specific situation
the truth is I wasnt in harms way...pat tillman was...I served and so did he but who was the bigger man.
I respect the man and pray for his family I didnt do much with my calling...he did
Sir you served and that enough Thank you
Semper Fi
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"Patriotism Defined" doesn't mean it's the one true definition of patriotism. At least to me. It means ONE example of patriotism, a good one, defined, out of many.
This is about semantics. I usually get suckered into this type of thing too. Don't do it at a party though, the chicks hate it.
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Patriotism Defined (http://www.fallenheroesmemorial.com/oif/)
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Naw sixpence the one I saw had pictures of the fallen soldiers It really put a face to the young people who died.
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Originally posted by stratman
Naw sixpence the one I saw had pictures of the fallen soldiers It really put a face to the young people who died.
Did you post it?
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Did you post it?
No I cant find the darn link :mad:
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Steve, you're right... but its the media sensation and those who run with the ball that are irritating, to say the least.
He was a man and a hero, no more so than any other man in the field. Making him a media icon is simply going with the popular flow and driving the media to find more stories akin to that.
Nuke, if you wanted to have a "respectful" conversation you wouldn't have singled me out. There was atleast one other person who said what I said, but in more words and less concise - of course he served so you couldn't say, "Hey ass, I will destroy you now". At the same time, I posted remarks that were directly related to the thread's subject/title. Then, you decided to make a new thread because you knew when you saw the title that it wasn't about Tillman - and about Patriotism defined... about Tillman.
At the same time, you state that I view Tillman as less of a patriot than the hundreds of thousands of millions of men/soldiers that came before him - when in fact I was stating that those same men/soldiers were in fact just as much as patriotism defined as he was. Thereby, in the roundabout way, achieving what I intended in the first post - that he was no more "Patriotism defined" than those fine men that came before him. He was more of a man/patriot than the NFL players, but thats different than saying he was "Patriotism defined".
-SW
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Steve, you're right... but its the media sensation and those who run with the ball that are irritating, to say the least.
He was a man and a hero, no more so than any other man in the field. Making him a media icon is simply going with the popular flow and driving the media to find more stories akin to that.
Nuke, if you wanted to have a "respectful" conversation you wouldn't have singled me out. There was atleast one other person who said what I said, but in more words and less concise - of course he served so you couldn't say, "Hey ass, I will destroy you now". At the same time, I posted remarks that were directly related to the thread's subject/title. Then, you decided to make a new thread because you knew when you saw the title that it wasn't about Tillman - and about Patriotism defined... about Tillman.
At the same time, you state that I view Tillman as less of a patriot than the hundreds of thousands of millions of men/soldiers that came before him - when in fact I was stating that those same men/soldiers were in fact just as much as patriotism defined as he was. Thereby, in the roundabout way, achieving what I intended in the first post - that he was no more "Patriotism defined" than those fine men that came before him. He was more of a man/patriot than the NFL players, but thats different than saying he was "Patriotism defined".
-SW
you know what, when did I single you out and say "I'm going to destroy you? lol, you must be drinking or something to read that into my post.
I quoted you and posted in a new thread so Pat Tillman's thread wouldn't be derailed. Then you presume to be able to read my mind and tell me why I posted a new thread? Are you not understanding that a thread's title does not always denote it's subject? Take this thread for example.....what is this thread's subject, hmmm?
The other thread, titled "Patriotism Defined" was in fact a thread about Pat Tillman, not on the definiation of Patriotism. In fact I saw no post that attempted to debate or define patriotism in there, but I'll bet if it derailed into that and took away from the SUBJECT, PAT TILLMAN, I bet Skuzzy would remove the people responsible.
Is the SUBJECT of the thread "GEEKS GEEKS" about geeks, or is it Dungeons and Dragons?
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LOL <-- those are nice touches.
You singled out my post for your new thread, which followed a post stating something quite similiar.
The statement I made in quotes was intended as humor, not to be taken literally. As for your thread subject, it accurately describes the first part of your thread. You took it to another area on your own. What is stupifying to me, is that you still do not realise that a thread's subject (check out where you place the title, aka the subject) is a thread's title and what its supposed to be about.
If I were to say, Jesus defined: you'd expect Jesus? Or... he is like a Jesus that hundreds of thousands of millions are just like?
As for your last paragraph, look up the definition of "subject". Check out where a thread title is "posted". If I posted a thread that's subject was, "Operating Systems Defined"... then posted about Unix... well, I didn't actually post about the subject in its entirety.
-SW
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
LOL <-- those are nice touches.
If I were to say, Jesus defined: you'd expect Jesus? Or... he is like a Jesus that hundreds of thousands of millions are just like?
As for your last paragraph, look up the definition of "subject". Check out where a thread title is "posted". If I posted a thread that's subject was, "Operating Systems Defined"... then posted about Unix... well, I didn't actually post about the subject in its entirety.
-SW
You are the one that doesnt get it. How often is a threads title the actual subject in here? There could be a thread titled "Jesus Defined" and when you click on the first post, it could be about a talking dog.
I could title a book "Rainbows" and have the subject be about global warming. You are the one that does not understand what a subect is and what a title is, regardless of what the field is called when you label a thread.
And I started a new thread because I wanted to reply and debate with you, but did not want to derail the Pat Tillman thread. Now you undertstand at least that, I hope.
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Can we stay on the subject please?
If anything to honor SGT Tillman and all the others who have PAID for our freedoms.
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Holy - this thread is gonna RULE in about 5 seconds!
I only got one thing to say to y'all...
Are you just gonna sit back and take that???
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lol Nash!
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How often is a thread about something that serious mis-titled or given an improper subject. Only by those who have no serious intentions.
If it was "Jesus defined", about something that hundreds of thousands of millions have done... oh, that'd be derailed real quick like.
Its you who don't get it, he was a patriot... he was no more "patriotism defined" than those past, present or future. I don't recall Jessica Lynch being "Patriotism defined".
-SW
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
How often is a thread about something that serious mis-titled or given an improper subject. Only by those who have no serious intentions.
If it was "Jesus defined", about something that hundreds of thousands of millions have done... oh, that'd be derailed real quick like.
Its you who don't get it, he was a patriot... he was no more "patriotism defined" than those past, present or future. I don't recall Jessica Lynch being "Patriotism defined".
-SW
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I have an easy solution to help you get over the title of the thread: although I doubt the title is what is eating at you.
Pretend the title says "Pat Tillman" instead of "Patriotism Defined" Then would it make it all better for you?
There is a thread titled "Pat Tillman" in the General Forums with much the same content. Does that bother you too? The same content, just a different title?
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
I don't recall Jessica Lynch being "Patriotism defined".
-SW
As well she should not be LOL.
The poor girl was injured in a humvee crash while running away from the fight.
SGT Tillman on the other hand was killed chasing the enemy down.
Now the above is just an example on how someone can take a few words written buy someone and turn it into something stupid.
Can we not all agree that SGT Tillman was a special man ?
And can we not all agree that ALL service men are special as well?
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Originally posted by stratman
Can we not all agree that SGT Tillman was a special man ?
And can we not all agree that ALL service men are special as well?
This is not the proper thread to agree about anything, take it elsewhere. Start a thread about agreeing, but don't rain on this one.
p.s. Make sure your new thread exactly conforms to the title.
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Originally posted by NUKE
This is not the proper thread to agree about anything, take it elsewhere. Start a thread about agreeing, but don't rain on this one.
p.s. Make sure your new thread exactly conforms to the title.
LOL:aok
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Sorry MrBlack, I'm afraid that one of your personalities will want to beat me up.
Nuke, like I said - I don't read anything in the General Discussion forums. However, if the thread title were "A Real Patriot" - no, I'd have no problems. It is what it states. He showed himself a real patriot, rather than defined it. Definitions are all we have, you may like to go changing them to fit the popular/media sensation of the day... I choose to honor those who have, are, and will be patriots.
Going to bed, will see how this thread is doing tommorrow.
-SW
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Sorry MrBlack, I'm afraid that one of your personalities will want to beat me up.
Nuke, like I said - I don't read anything in the General Discussion forums. However, if the thread title were "A Real Patriot" - no, I'd have no problems. It is what it states. He showed himself a real patriot, rather than defined it. Definitions are all we have, you may like to go changing them to fit the popular/media sensation of the day... I choose to honor those who have, are, and will be patriots.
Going to bed, will see how this thread is doing tommorrow.
-SW
None of what you said had anything to do with this thread.
Indeed it was just a silly attempt at a highjacking.
Wich given the subject I think you should be ashamed of your self.
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Originally posted by stratman
I used to have a web site url of all the casulties from the war so far.
It showed thereb pics and what units they where in.
It to me was very sad to look at all the very young faces that are gone now.
Anyone know of that website?
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/
Yes thats it thank you.
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Just one of the MANY hero's who have died for us and our way of life.
Sgt. Kirk Allen Straseskie
23
1st Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment
Beaver Dam, Wisconsin
Drowned while trying to rescue the crew of a CH-46 Sea Knight helicopter that crashed in a canal near Hillah, Iraq on May 19, 2003