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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: ra on April 27, 2004, 11:59:33 AM

Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: ra on April 27, 2004, 11:59:33 AM
They know who is really (http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD70004) behind all the terrorist bombings:
Quote
If you want to know the real perpetrator of every disaster or every act of terrorism, look for the Zionist Jews. They are behind all the violent and terror operations that have occurred everywhere in the world. [They do this] first of all in order to slap [the label of the attacks] on the Arabs and Muslims, and second to harm them, distort their image, and represent them to the world as terrorists who endanger innocents. What is even more dangerous is that after every terror operation they perpetrate, they leave a sign, clue, or traces meant to show that the perpetrators are Arab Muslims.

Radical Arabs blow people up, moderate Arabs blame the Jews.
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: vorticon on April 27, 2004, 12:07:33 PM
what else is new...at least there arnt any seas parting rocks being thrown from heaven or flying horses...
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: Curval on April 27, 2004, 12:17:00 PM
lol...this is what moderate Arabs really think?:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: Thud on April 27, 2004, 12:22:34 PM
I could quote Pat Robertson and add that he is a moderate christian and therefore his invariably ridiculously stupid statements do represent the views of all moderate christians.

But then again, that would make me as simple as some other posters here...
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: ra on April 27, 2004, 12:26:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Thud
I could quote Pat Robertson and add that he is a moderate christian and therefore his invariably ridiculously stupid statements do represent the views of all moderate christians.

But then again, that would make me as simple as some other posters here...

And you wouldn't want to be simple now, would you?

The guy who wrote the article is a deputy editor for a government controlled news agency of a 'moderate' Arab state.
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: Thud on April 27, 2004, 12:42:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ra
And you wouldn't want to be simple now, would you?

The guy who wrote the article is a deputy editor for a government controlled news agency of a 'moderate' Arab state.


I already read your link, it does not matter whether it was the deputy editor or the mayor of Cairo, the opinions voiced in the article still aren't linked to 'moderate arabs' as a whole, only to a single frightingly caustic author. Clear case of unfounded assumptions, perhaps all to convenient when searching for affirmation of certain prejudices...
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: AKIron on April 27, 2004, 12:44:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Thud
I could quote Pat Robertson and add that he is a moderate christian and therefore his invariably ridiculously stupid statements do represent the views of all moderate christians.

But then again, that would make me as simple as some other posters here...


Go ahead and quote, let's do a comparison.
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: Sixpence on April 27, 2004, 12:53:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
Go ahead and quote, let's do a comparison.


Careful for what you ask for.
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: Thud on April 27, 2004, 12:53:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
Go ahead and quote, let's do a comparison.


There you go,

As polarized and ignorant as found anywhere:

just a sample  (http://www.townhall.com/news/politics/200312/FOR20031217d.shtml)
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: Sixpence on April 27, 2004, 12:57:20 PM
Wow, I never looked into this guy, I didn't realize he was ready to suck down some punch and hop on a comet.

"The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians." -- Pat Robertson, fundraising letter, 1992
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: Stringer on April 27, 2004, 01:01:31 PM
That lesbian part sounds like it has possiblities...
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: Udie on April 27, 2004, 01:52:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
lol...this is what moderate Arabs really think?:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



actually yes.  I talked to my Iranian friend last week and we were both on the same page as far as the war on terror and what Bush/America has done, until he started blaming the whole thing on the Jews :)
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: SirLoin on April 27, 2004, 01:58:14 PM
So what about the moderate Jews..and the not so moderate Jews in power?
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: -dead- on April 27, 2004, 01:58:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Udie
actually yes.  I talked to my Iranian friend last week and we were both on the same page as far as the war on terror and what Bush/America has done, until he started blaming the whole thing on the Jews :)
Iranian? You sure he's an Arab?
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: Udie on April 27, 2004, 02:01:48 PM
actually if you called him an arab he'd likely punch you in the face ;)
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: lada on April 27, 2004, 02:11:48 PM
yes Udie, 99% of iranian will tell you, that terrorism is very very baad.
and most of them will continue, that Israel terrorize palestine, whitch makes sense from their point of view.

And dont forget, that irna and sutch institution report much more about things between palestine and israel.
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: lada on April 27, 2004, 02:13:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Udie
actually if you called him an arab he'd likely punch you in the face ;)

LOL holy true :D
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: lazs2 on April 27, 2004, 02:20:37 PM
ya know... I don't seem to find too many places that love jews.   Even liberal countries have a hate for them it seems.

I guess we would be better off if we just threw em to the wolves and let em get wiped off the face of the earth but.... I'm just contrary natured enough to  vote no on that...

lazs
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: lada on April 27, 2004, 02:28:33 PM
well Lazs2 im not history guru, but some people around were complaining that where ever they went in past 3000 years, there streamed a lot of blood.


actualy since they somehow managed to get their nation (where most religios doesnt have to work lol), it didnt cut down on bad reputation, they have.

actualy there is not much countries, where primeminister is famous terrorist. Actualy Lybia isnt the only one :D
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: -dead- on April 27, 2004, 02:30:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Udie
actually if you called him an arab he'd likely punch you in the face ;)
So his opinion isn't really the best example of what moderate Arabs think, then.
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: lazs2 on April 27, 2004, 02:33:40 PM
Ok... but just let me get this straight... it's not ok to hate them colored people but I should hate jews?

It's all so confusing to me.   I'm just not very european I guess.

someone should at least make a list for me to refer to so I know who it is ok to hate and who it isn't.

lazs
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: jamusta on April 27, 2004, 02:43:54 PM
Who's the colored people?
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: lazs2 on April 27, 2004, 02:50:51 PM
oops... sorry... was just taking a cue from the NAACP ... do they prefer to be called "darkies" now?   It's all so confusing.

lazs
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: icemaw on April 27, 2004, 03:26:01 PM
I dont know what scares me more that the nutball writer believes these things or that there are people out there reading it beliving it.
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: storch on April 27, 2004, 03:50:56 PM
lol lasz, that was classic.
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: rpm on April 27, 2004, 04:14:39 PM
(http://www.killmytv.com/now/movie_lines/images/blazing_saddles1.jpg)
Where are 'da
white women at ?
   -  Bart, Sheriff of Rock Ridge
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: jamusta on April 27, 2004, 04:25:28 PM
UH OH looks like the hoods are begining to surface. Just amazes me that this discussion went from generalizing Arabs to talking about "colored" people.
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: DiabloTX on April 27, 2004, 04:30:42 PM
Somebody go find that industrial size barrel of sarcasm...it was around here yesterday...where the hell did it go?
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: jamusta on April 27, 2004, 04:35:35 PM
A barrel of sarcasm maybe needed but when it comes to Lazs I honestly feel he means it.
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: DiabloTX on April 27, 2004, 04:39:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
Ok... but just let me get this straight... it's not ok to hate them colored people but I should hate jews?

It's all so confusing to me.   I'm just not very european I guess.

someone should at least make a list for me to refer to so I know who it is ok to hate and who it isn't.

lazs


Read the last line Jamu, it pretty much drips with the ole sarcasm.  Well, at least I found VERY funny in a PC sort of way.
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: lazs2 on April 27, 2004, 05:13:09 PM
are you discriminating against me jamusta?

but... you seem like a fair and logical guy with a real urbane sense of humor....maybe you can tell me... is it ok to hate jews then?   I know the negroes are pretty sensitive... wouldn't want to hate the wrong people on this board.

it's all so confusing.

lazs
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: GtoRA2 on April 27, 2004, 05:17:10 PM
No No
Laz, the only hate that is ok, is the rabid hate liberals have for Bush.



Well and from this thread maybe some Jew hate....
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: storch on April 27, 2004, 06:02:09 PM
well being non white myself:rolleyes: it's ok to hate whitey also, or so it seems at times.  the most discriminated against person in America today is a white male.  If he happens to be Christian, well then it's open season.  gahead say it ain't so!
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: AKIron on April 27, 2004, 06:28:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Thud
There you go,

As polarized and ignorant as found anywhere:

just a sample  (http://www.townhall.com/news/politics/200312/FOR20031217d.shtml)



"I hardly find it necessary to remind this audience of the stated objectives of Yasser Arafat, the PLO, Hamas, Hizballah, and the Islamic Jihad. Their goal is not peace, but the final destruction of the State of Israel," Robertson said in a speech that was punctuated by applause from some of the conference participants.

What do you find about this that is even close to being as bizarre as claiming that Israel is behind all the world's terrorism? I think he makes pretty good sense here.
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: Red Tail 444 on April 27, 2004, 06:42:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
well being non white myself:rolleyes: it's ok to hate whitey also, or so it seems at times.  the most discriminated against person in America today is a white male.  If he happens to be Christian, well then it's open season.  gahead say it ain't so!



Yup, get one colored person in the office, and damn, theyre taking over.  :mad:
Title: Jamusta , Red Tail..
Post by: RedTop on April 27, 2004, 06:53:49 PM
YOu 2 REALLY should lighten up. Lazs was being sarcastic. It was plain as the nose on your face he was.

Don't get this turned in to some Racial issue of Black and White again. Just my 2 cents;)
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: DiabloTX on April 27, 2004, 06:54:21 PM
Oh man, did this thread ever pull an Amtrak...
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: bozon on April 27, 2004, 07:04:38 PM
lol, this is getting better by the post.

please go on :D

Bozon
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: Nashwan on April 27, 2004, 07:12:44 PM
Quote
"I hardly find it necessary to remind this audience of the stated objectives of Yasser Arafat, the PLO, Hamas, Hizballah, and the Islamic Jihad. Their goal is not peace, but the final destruction of the State of Israel,"


The stated aim of the PLO and Yasser Arafat since 1988 has been a two state solution.
(ie Palestine and Israel)

Wether you believe them or not is another matter, but that's the stated aim.
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: jamusta on April 27, 2004, 07:20:28 PM
Notice I havent said anything to anyone elses comments. I have had some spats on this board before with Lazs about issues concerning race....

Why was his comment about "colored" people even needed in a discussion about Arabs and Jews?

Stick to collecting guns for the "revolution" because you'll never make it as a comedian.
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: Cabby44 on April 27, 2004, 08:07:08 PM
Quote:

"The stated aim of the PLO and Yasser Arafat since 1988 has been a two state solution.
(ie Palestine and Israel)
"

And i believe pigs will fly....

C.
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: Eagler on April 27, 2004, 09:12:08 PM
where?

hiding from the not-so "Moderate Arabs"?

definitely not critizing the actions of the not-so "Moderate Arabs"

there are probably fewer of them than some would like you to believe when it comes to following the latest interpretation of their faith...
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: AKcurly on April 28, 2004, 12:29:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Udie
actually yes.  I talked to my Iranian friend last week and we were both on the same page as far as the war on terror and what Bush/America has done, until he started blaming the whole thing on the Jews :)


Actually, Udie, Iranians and Arabs are about as close genetically as American Indians and Asian Indians.  However, you are correct in assuming there's no love lost between the two.

curly
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: lada on April 28, 2004, 03:00:48 AM
well curly there is not love, no doubts. But there is respect at least from pesian side.
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: storch on April 28, 2004, 06:19:47 AM
Iranians are Persian and the Persians have been fighting against the Arabs since they were known by other names.  The only thing they have in common is that islam.  But don't worry that islam is changing and fragmenting into offshoots with each coming charismatic "leader".  There is still hope for the Persians.
Title: Re: Moderate Arabs
Post by: Thud on April 28, 2004, 07:43:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
where?

hiding from the not-so "Moderate Arabs"?

definitely not critizing the actions of the not-so "Moderate Arabs"

there are probably fewer of them than some would like you to believe when it comes to following the latest interpretation of their faith...


I believe it is exactly the other way around, there are more moderate arabs (and muslims in general for that matter) than you'd like to believe. An illustration: In my country the vast majority of people is sustantially frightened of the Islam and integration and immigration are by far the most discussed issues in politics. No week goes by without some mosque being confronted with a book in their collection promoting violence against women, infidels or homosexuals, creating an image with the public that Muslims are intolerant, fanatic and extremist in their views and interpretations.

Yesterday the AIVD (Dutch Intelligence Agency) isued a report in which they warned for an unabated high risk of terrorism BUT:

also a steady decline in extremism in the views as held by muslims. Both the small number of extremist Imams and these moderating their tone contributed to this development.

Point: even though the idea that Muslims are predominantly quite extreme in their views is widespread, the reality is rather different.
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: lazs2 on April 28, 2004, 08:38:21 AM
jamuata..  if we ever "got into it" before over race or anything else... I gotta tell you... I don't recall.   Your ability to make yourself be remembered must be equal to you sense of humor.

I don't know that much about comedians and have no desire to be one but it seems that a lot of famous comedians made it big by infuriating sensitive people who weren't too bright so that the others in the audience could watch the reaction.   I don't think a lot of women ever got kaufmans worlds greatest wrestler of women bit for instance.

So long as some people are overly sensitive... other people will make fun of em.   Other People who are not real bright and at the same time mean spirited... Other people like... well... like me.

lazs
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: AKcurly on April 28, 2004, 09:21:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lada
well Lazs2 im not history guru, but some people around were complaining that where ever they went in past 3000 years, there streamed a lot of blood.
 


Yes Lada, you're right and before Israel became a nation, it was always their blood.  Not anymore though, they believe in retribution.

curly
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: ravells on April 28, 2004, 09:22:20 AM
Found a good simulation on how you turn moderate arabs into extreme ones...

http://www.newsgaming.com/games/index12.htm

Ravs
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: AKIron on April 28, 2004, 09:22:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Nashwan
The stated aim of the PLO and Yasser Arafat since 1988 has been a two state solution.
(ie Palestine and Israel)

Wether you believe them or not is another matter, but that's the stated aim.


And yet their National Charter which calls for the complete destruction of Israel remains unchanged in this before the United Nations. Why is that?

Thud, don't get me wrong, I think Pat Roberston has made some mistakes in some of his public statements but so far you have not backed up your claim. Please post just one speciifc quote from him to justify your remark.
Title: Re: Re: Moderate Arabs
Post by: Eagler on April 28, 2004, 09:40:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Thud
I believe it is exactly the other way around, there are more moderate arabs (and muslims in general for that matter) than you'd like to believe. An illustration: In my country the vast majority of people is sustantially frightened of the Islam and integration and immigration are by far the most discussed issues in politics. No week goes by without some mosque being confronted with a book in their collection promoting violence against women, infidels or homosexuals, creating an image with the public that Muslims are intolerant, fanatic and extremist in their views and interpretations.

Yesterday the AIVD (Dutch Intelligence Agency) isued a report in which they warned for an unabated high risk of terrorism BUT:

also a steady decline in extremism in the views as held by muslims. Both the small number of extremist Imams and these moderating their tone contributed to this development.

Point: even though the idea that Muslims are predominantly quite extreme in their views is widespread, the reality is rather different.


glad to hear it is that way there Thud

I do think more moderate ones need to get on tv and faceplant the message to the nutbag ones
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: Thud on April 28, 2004, 11:23:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
Thud, don't get me wrong, I think Pat Roberston has made some mistakes in some of his public statements but so far you have not backed up your claim. Please post just one speciifc quote from him to justify your remark.


Very well:

"Bush and other world leaders have been careful not to characterize the current worldwide struggle against tyrants and terrorism as a religious or Western war against Islam. But Robertson said that giving up Biblical land for Israel would be giving Islam the victory over the God of the Bible".

Let's assume for arguments' sake that one would interpret this as the predominant opion in moderate America. From a war on terrorism which is relatively contained apart from some outbursts it would suddenly become a world wide religious struggle. I don't think that the implications of that need any more elaboration.

And another one to top it all off:

Robertson charged that political initiatives that promise peace will only "guarantee unending struggle and ultimate failure."

What kind of initiatives would remain I wonder...
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: AKIron on April 28, 2004, 11:51:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Thud
Very well:

"Bush and other world leaders have been careful not to characterize the current worldwide struggle against tyrants and terrorism as a religious or Western war against Islam. But Robertson said that giving up Biblical land for Israel would be giving Islam the victory over the God of the Bible".

Let's assume for arguments' sake that one would interpret this as the predominant opion in moderate America. From a war on terrorism which is relatively contained apart from some outbursts it would suddenly become a world wide religious struggle. I don't think that the implications of that need any more elaboration.

And another one to top it all off:

Robertson charged that political initiatives that promise peace will only "guarantee unending struggle and ultimate failure."

What kind of initiatives would remain I wonder...


You only listed one quote and that was only a partial quote with someone else's commentary. How about a full quote and not just what someone thought he meant?
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: storch on April 28, 2004, 02:23:38 PM
The thought crosses my mind (admittedly a short journey) why can Euros quote obscure American Political types at all??  I don't know who the current dutch poobah is and am totally disinterested in what he may say or opine on any subject.  Feel free to extrapolate that sentiment to all of Europe.
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: AKIron on April 28, 2004, 03:38:03 PM
Thud was more or less equating Christian leaders with Islamic leaders. He threatened a quote that would make Robertson look as much the lunatic as the one this thread is about. He has, as of yet, failed to provide the goods. Still waiting Thud.
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: Thud on April 28, 2004, 04:29:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
He has, as of yet, failed to provide the goods.


That is, rather obvious, entirely subjective. I for one categorize him similarly as the author of the first post article, even if presented just the quotes above. Anyways, going to sleep now, perhaps I'll find another interesting quote tomorrow.

Night.
Title: Moderate Arabs
Post by: AKIron on April 28, 2004, 05:07:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Thud
That is, rather obvious, entirely subjective. I for one categorize him similarly as the author of the first post article, even if presented just the quotes above. Anyways, going to sleep now, perhaps I'll find another interesting quote tomorrow.

Night.


Take your time, I'll be waiting patiently.