Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GtoRA2 on April 30, 2004, 03:40:27 PM
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Guys
What do you think of Wolf? I have heard the steel cases can wear guns out faster? Is this true?
They are now coating the cases with POLYMER does that help?
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It is junky ammo thats why it is cheap.
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Wolf cases are made out of steel instead of brass.
Steel expands more then brass under heated conditions. This can provide for feeding and extracting problems in some Semi-Autos.
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get what ya pay for....truest phrase modern man ever uttered
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Before anyone jumps on the bandwagon that says Wolf ammo blows, be aware that it doesn't.
It's good ammo that works in some guns.
I.E. Our 1911 doesn't like Wolf Ammo, but a friend's 1911 can use it fine.
Buy a box and try it out. If it works keep using it. If it doesn't, use something else.
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Best thing you can do for your gun Is reload your own ammo.
For a number of reasons.
1.often cheaper
2. can taylor the loads to the way your gun shoots
3. can back off case pressures a bit and possibly extend chamber and barrell life.
4. can load more for accuracy.
5.its fun
Many many others as well.
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AFAIK, Wolf ammo is fine, in that I doubt it will go high-order on you and blow up your gun.
You can't reload the steel cases.
It's probably not loaded to the same standards as Federal, etc. so you might get some variances in velocity, accuracy, etc.
Other than that, it should be just fine for plinking.
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Is ammoman.com a good place to order from?
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Why buy an expensive pistol and shoot cheap ammo? Would you run a Corvette on 87 octane?
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It was a cheap pistol.
Remember, while it might cost less to reload a box of shells, you still have to cover the 250 dollars to buy a new reloader.
And the best reason to handload is so you can make bullets for the gun you want and you can be guaranteed that every bullet will be the same.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
It was a cheap pistol.
OK... I can see that.
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Reloading needs space. I do not have any since I am now renting a single room pending a move to WA if my GF decideds I am not the reason she is unhappy.
It would also not want to do it without the owner of the house knowing and I am sure his whife would freak.
I was thinking Wolf, cause I am rusty and need something to work on form and getting myself to not flinch anymore.
I will prolly go with Federal.
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We can usually get a good deal from Dick's sporting goods on UMC ammo. Just wait for the sales and buy a bunch of boxes.
Works for shotgun shells too.
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I bought a case (1000 rds) of Wolf about two years ago, cheap stuff, not accurate at all and had about 7 to 10 percent mis-fires in a Mini-30 and about 5 percent in an AK.
I will not use it in my AR's or my hand guns.
Not what you want when the balloon goes up, but ok to have fun with.
Remember,
Ya get what ya pay for, there are no free rides.
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Who shoots ammo made out f steel casing?
:lol
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I use Wolf ammo. I fired so far about 500 rounds and not a single missfire. It works for me....
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It is not bad ammo... You may have mixed results with guns with very tight chambers if you don't clean your un much. It has a laquer finish that gums up tight chamers sometimes...
I put 400 rounds of it through one makarov without cleaning. It was flawless and seemed consistent. The new caoting is suposed to be better yet.
Blazer CCI ammo used alloy cases of aluminum and are also not reloadable... I shoot nothing but russian steel case stuff out of the makarovs. I do not intend to reload for those guns... I also have shot a lot of Wolf double ought 12 guage and it is very good. I bought a couple hundred rounds of Wolf 223 for my mini 14 and will let you know how it works
I don't use it in my 45's cause I reload anyway but I gave 500 rounds of it to my son and he used up every bit of it in his Springfield with good results.
We had steel cased 45 ammo in WWII I am looking at 6 rounds of it headstamped 1943.
Ammoman is great... free delivery and no tax. Use em all the time.
lazs
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Originally posted by stratman
Best thing you can do for your gun Is reload your own ammo.
For a number of reasons.
1.often cheaper
2. can taylor the loads to the way your gun shoots
3. can back off case pressures a bit and possibly extend chamber and barrel life.
4. can load more for accuracy.
5.its fun
Many many others as well.
good advice. you can get a basic "rock-chucker" set-up for about $250 new, or about $50 used (plus the price of the dies for your caliber.
if you are sure you are going to stick with it though, you are better off to go directly to a Dillon(Sp?) progressive press, for a couple hundred more. it has several stages that go at once so that once you get everything set, all you have to do is set the projectiles and pull the lever (unless you have the power press, in which case you push the button. I have friends who tell me they get over 500 rounds an hour on theirs.
which ever way you go it doesn't take very many rounds before you are saving money**, for 9mm rds it's about 4-5 cents to load a round vs about 20-30 cents for a factory load, more if you want anything close to the quality you get from re-loads
another benefit is you can control recoil and a few other factors by using different powders.
for example with my 9mm and jacketed bullets, I use Hercules blue-dot, it's the optimum burn rate for my gun (calibre/barrle length), I can get maximum fps (about 2,100), with a more steady recoil, it also burns way cleaner than factory loads, and the flame is a blueish-green instead of orange-yellow, so it doesn't blind you when fired at night.
if I load cast rds I have to slow it down to about 800 fps (to prevent barrel leading), if I try to load that light of a load with blue dot the recoil is so much slower that it doesn't have enough 'snap' to work the action, and I get jammed rds, and stove-pipes.
**disclaimer- to be truly honest, you wont actually save any money. you will pay less per round but you will just shoot more until you are spending the same.
btw- about the wolf ammo. I've never used that brand but one thing you have to be very careful about with discount ammo, particularly the types you can't re-prime is the chemical composition of the primer.
when blazer first came out (aluminum cases) it had corrosive primers, not a huge problem if you clean and oil your gun thoroughly and often but if left unchecked it can cause pitting. iirc they fixed that problem in fairly short order. of course I still don't use blazer when I buy factory loads because it doesn't contribute to my brass supply.
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I have shot well over 1000 rounds of Wolf out of my SKS and it shoots very well... straight, reliable, never a misfeed/fire.
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Originally posted by Steve
I have shot well over 1000 rounds of Wolf out of my SKS and it shoots very well... straight, reliable, never a misfeed/fire.
yeah Steve, but can you hit an onion at 100 yards before your dad can blast it away with his pistol? :)
we gotta go shooting with your dad again btw.... what a guy he is!
Also, my SKS is better than yours...... yours won't shoot at rabbits...
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I can vouch for ammoman.com being a reputable dealer with great prices. Recently ordered the reclassified .4- 155gr gold dot (1k rds) for $169, thats cheaper than a $5 hooker 34 times!!!
The NEW Wolf ammo is "polymer" coated rather than lacquer coated, so feeding and ejection problems "should" be addressed. Good luck!
SiGArms SP2340 rules!!!
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but can you hit an onion at 100 yards before your dad can blast it away with his pistol?
Not if I give him first shot, lol. Have you ever seen shootin like that?
I'm up for shoootin any time... say when :)
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I am still using the rock chucker I bought in 73. Realisticly you are gonna need a lot more than a basic press tho. Good powder measure Some kind of hand primeing system is good.. and you should be cleaning your cases with a tumbler of some kind.. calipers etc.
steve.. that was a missprint about 2100 fps from a 9mm? I don't have a 9 now but I would probly not reload for it with 9mm ammo so cheap by the case..
My 44's and 45's cost me about 4-5 bucks a box to reload. fun to try new loads to try to shrink 25 yard groups. AA#5 and 250 cast Keith works good in the 44... blue dot allways worked good for me too.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
steve.. that was a missprint about 2100 fps from a 9mm? I don't have a 9 now but I would probly not reload for it with 9mm ammo so cheap by the case..
lazs
actually that was from mine and yes, it was a huge misprint.
I've managed to push some to a bit over 1,500, with no hi-pressure signs, (would have tried a little hotter, but the cases just wouldn't hold any more powder).
I have no idea where that 2,100 figure came from. I load most of mine to about a 1,200-1,300 range with 100gr bullets and 1,100-1,200 with 125gr
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That sounds about right.. Sad but true story.. Bout 20 years ago I had a luger... fancy interarms gun.... very very pretty but... jam-0-matic... never made it through a full mag...
Read some "expert" in a gun mag who claimed that lugers used "machine gun ammo" loaded to about 1300 fps with 124 gr slugs... suuuuurre..
Destroyed that sucker.. Blew the back right out of the breechblock.... Lugers are not particularly tough firearms.
lazs
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I only use their 7.62x39.
Never had a single problem with it.
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Originally posted by lazs2
That sounds about right.. Sad but true story.. Bout 20 years ago I had a luger... fancy interarms gun.... very very pretty but... jam-0-matic... never made it through a full mag...
Read some "expert" in a gun mag who claimed that lugers used "machine gun ammo" loaded to about 1300 fps with 124 gr slugs... suuuuurre..
Destroyed that sucker.. Blew the back right out of the breechblock.... Lugers are not particularly tough firearms.
lazs
ya, just adding more powder is rarely the answer. when I have to make them hotter I usually go about .1 grn at a time. I load them in sets of 10 at each load and mark them with the wifes nail-polish so I can tell them apart, then shoot each set checking every shell for pressure signs, when even one case shows sign I usually back off about .3gr and mark that down in the log as my new max for that powder/projectile combo.
often you can change brands on one or 2 components and get the desired change without going hotter. like with my cast bullets I found a faster burning powder gave enough snap to work the action while keeping the chamber pressures low.
for the 9mm (especially with my old Barrett, with the longer barrel than my S&W) I'm a huge fan of blue dot. it's bulky enough that it's impossible to double-charge a cartridge, (for the 100gr projectiles you can almost skip measuring and just scoop the brass full).
an old friend of mine used to have the pressure readings from blue-dot in a test barrel. Its amazing to look at the graph and wonder how they designed the powder to burn like that. it spikes up to a nice high pressure right away and then seems to burn the rest of the powder just fast enough to keep the pressure almost consistent as the projectile moves down the barrel. as compared with red-dot for example that spikes right away and then is burned out, so the the pressure drops off sharply as the projectile travels through the barrel.
the difference in accuracy is about 6" tighter groups at 50'. the difference in recoil is a nice steady push (like someone pushing your hand) with the blue-dot, and quick snap thats over as soon as it starts with the red-dot (almost like holding something while someone hits it with a hammer).
anyway I need to dig my stuff out and load some more, it's been a few years. without the gun-club membership I don't shoot often enough or in a controlled enough environment to tell much difference in accuracy between mine and factory. and with my old rock chucker I can only load about 100 rds an hour.
when I get a little spare cash I'm really thinking about stepping up to the Dillon. it's fast enough that I could probably load some for my friends and make enough excess cash to shoot for free.
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I allways start at eh bottom and work loads up a tenth or two at a time... pressure signs are not good indicators tho. Luger in question never gave signs of excess pressure. If I got six inch tighter groups with my 44's at 50 yards they would be in the negative. Factory ammo is pretty good these day. I find I am having touble beating good factory stuff by much in handguns but... I can do it cheaper. AA#5 has been kinda handy.
as for Wolf wearing out guns.. I think what people are talking about is the steel aaloy bullet jacket not the case. Russian ammo uses a very soft, thin steel bullet jacket. It is easily deformed and so far as I have been able to tell... wears barrels about the same as normal gilding metal jackets (negligible) If you have a rough bore even after thousands of jacketed rounds it won't wear enough to polish it out. Hardly worth worrying about IMO.
lazs
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apathy, try using Bullseye or Unique for low-velocity loads, I always had good luck with those for that way back when I used to shoot so much I had to reload to afford it. Only disadvantage (especially with Unique) is a lot of residue.
I'll second the vote of confidence for UMC ammo, great alternative if you want a happy medium between cost savings and quality - it ain't as cheap as Blazer or Wolf, but it uses brass cases and has great quality.
lazs, you a .44MAG shooter eh? Great weapon that, when I was really into pistol shooting I split time about equally between my 1911 and my Super Blackhawk. Reloading was a matter of economy for the 1911, a matter of precision for the Ruger :)
My favorite jacketed load was a 240 grain copper jacket (whatever tip was appropriate for the target) with Winchester Large Pistol primers and IMR4227. You ought to try this, its fantastic. Start at about 20 grains or so, that should be low-ball in any decent gun. My Ruger liked as much as 24.5 (or was that 27? 20+ years ago) grains, a compressed load - almost no residue, very low flash, excellent accuracy. It would dimple the primer if I stuck it in my Marlin .44 carbine tho, so like I said work up from 20 in your gun.
I was able to complete penetrate a new 10" creosoted telephone pole with that load pushing an FMJ ;)
culero
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4227 is good as is H110 or 296 or even 2400 in 44 mag. The AA load is economical with cast slugs. I have a super blackhawk, a redhawk and a Dan Wesson all in 44 I am trying to find a load they all like. I like winchester primers too. I like a good cast load that puts 240-250 grain cast slugs out there about 1200 fps. Even that is a little sharp in my 4" cut down Redhawk.
lazs