Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Bodhi on May 01, 2004, 09:58:26 AM
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http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/30/iraq.brit.prisoner.abuse/index.html
Ya know, I have to agree with what others said in an earlier thread. This behavior needs to be punished and punished severly. Whether it's US, Brits, or any other troops, this behavior has no place in our armies.
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It's no secret the military is made up of right wing nutburgers. Is anyone really suprised the Right has resorted to torture?
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Have to disagree with you there Airhead, here the army are pretty pissed off and disgusted bywhat happend.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3676389.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3675723.stm
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Originally posted by Airhead
It's no secret the military is made up of right wing nutburgers. Is anyone really suprised the Right has resorted to torture?
Pretty false Airhead ,usually right wing nutburgers spend their time not in the army but in more dangerous places like a BBS for example.
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Airhead not only is that statement patently wrong it is blatently stupid and insulting to everyone that puts on a uniform, myself included.
You might be suprised at the number of liberals in the military. Even those that are to the right of center believe in the principle of law and also believe in the principle of the Geneva convention. Quite a few of us have been discussing this (we are all Captain and above discussing this, we aren't just some private in the motor pool) and to a man we all said that this is unacceptable and that heads should roll.
When we raise our right hand we take an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States and to obey the lawful orders of our superiors. If (remember, these guys haven't been convicted of anything, where is your defendents rights now?) the soldiers in question did violate the Geneva convention they will be prosecuted. At the least they will lose their careers. I suspect they will be sent to Levenworth for more than a couple of years.
Just remember, this Army of 'Right Wing Nuts' has had the power to overthrow this government for the last 150 years and never has even remotely entertained the idea. We hold the rule of law and the rule of our leaders so important that we are willing to give our lives to preserve it, not to overturn it.
You disgust me.
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Originally posted by Airhead
It's no secret the military is made up of right wing nutburgers. Is anyone really suprised the Right has resorted to torture?
Airhead, just go away, this is the crap that is ruining this board.
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Why the double standard? Those of us who have posted opposition to the Iraq occupation are bombarded by being called left wing, anti American Communist terrorist lovers who hate America, interspread with JPEGs of some drugged out hippie who is portrayed as what "we" are.... where every issue quickly deteroriates into a slam fest on the Democrats.... where name calling and taunting by people like Bodhi, Grunherz, VOR and the same core group of right wingers resembles noon time recess at an elementary school rather than a bulletin board discussion...
Why is it so acceptable to stereotype one side of the political spectrum in a negative light, but it's forbidden to stereotype the OTHER side of the political spectrum in a negative light?
Obviously this was an isolated incident committed by a few rogue criminals, so relax...but from now on, anyone makes a generalized comment questioning my patriotism, military service or honor I will react in kind.
Some of you might want to think about what you post before you post it. Your right wing rants and name calling are getting tired.
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Originally posted by Airhead
Why the double standard? Those of us who have posted opposition to the Iraq occupation are bombarded by being called left wing, anti American Communist terrorist lovers who hate America, interspread with JPEGs of some drugged out hippie who is portrayed as what "we" are.... where every issue quickly deteroriates into a slam fest on the Democrats.... where name calling and taunting by people like Bodhi, Grunherz, VOR and the same core group of right wingers resembles noon time recess at an elementary school rather than a bulletin board discussion...
Why is it so acceptable to stereotype one side of the political spectrum in a negative light, but it's forbidden to stereotype the OTHER side of the political spectrum in a negative light?
Obviously this was an isolated incident committed by a few rogue criminals, so relax...but from now on, anyone makes a generalized comment questioning my patriotism, military service or honor I will react in kind.
Some of you might want to think about what you post before you post it. Your right wing rants and name calling are getting tired.
Airhead you are too intelligent to fall into the "right wing/left wing" trap.
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Big problem Airhead. You did not stereotype the left or the right. You insulted the very people who put their lives on the line so you have the right to speak your mind. Even if you make a complete and total prettythang of yourself. Big difference. If you are too stupid to see and understand the difference, you are indeed beneath contempt, and not worthy of further replies.
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Some people might want to think before they post Airhead? Yes, you should try it sometime, you may find it enlightening.
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You know what, any idiot can make broad generalized statements like you did. It doesn't take a keen intellect to say 'Well all xxxx are a bunch of right wing (or left wing if the poster is a rightwinger) blah blah blah. Heck, my six year old can do that.
You call your flippant response to a legitimate board posting the result of people picking on you? Go call your mother. Go call Jenny Jones. Next up, 'guys who don't like being called names respond by stupid flip lines. '
If you believe what you believe then you should be able to defend yourself against those that insult you by your actions. If someone calls me a blah blah I ignore them as the idiot they are. They don't exist to me. You seem to take this crap personally so you go out of your way to make stupid statements that insult people for no apparent reason. I
f there is one country that bends over backwards to maintain the Geneva Convention it is the United States. Those people have already been releived of their jobs and are awaiting probably prison time, if they are guilty. How do I know this? It has been jammed into my head at least 10 times over my 19 year military career. People are human, people do stupid things and war inhumanized people on both sides and that is why these rules are in place, to prevent widespread torture chambers and mass graves, something pretty common in Iraq just a year and a half ago.
You know, I don't post stuff here unless I know some facts behind it. I don't come here to make stupid flame troll posts. Any idiot can do that.
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everyone who makes generalized statements are a**h**es.....
no... wait...
seriously, this is the first time I remember anyone calling General Wesley Clarke a right wing nutburger...
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dont sweat airhead. he is just trying to be a dick for the fun of it.
Lots of dorks like that running amok on the net these days.
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Sheeesh NUKE, I didn't even know I was a "leftist" til I heard it here. I didn't know I hated America til I heard it here. I didn't know I supported America's enemies til I heard it here.
I consider that insulting, and speaking of which I apologize to wklink and every other military, past and present, for using them to make a point. It was disrespectful and out of bounds, I was wrong and apologize for my insult.
Bodhi, I really have nothing to say to you, other than I think it is your name calling and hateful attitude towards those who disagree with you that diminishes this Board, not the crap I post. You should be the one to just go away.
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I think I'm losing my mind.
Les
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Apology accepted.
Now back to the real thing, the story.
If they are convicted then they should get the max penalty. There is no place for this over there. If we want to get out of there in a reasonable time we have to stabilize this country, not give license to the terror factions working in the country. It will turn civilians away from turning in those that may be operating in their midst and turn those tortured into martyrs. It was stupid on the leadership's part at that detention center.
All of us in the Army are instructed on the Army Values. You can't walk into a building without seeing these things posted all over the walls. The Army Values are:
Loyalty
Duty
Respect
Selfless Service
Honor
Integrity
Personal Courage
These have been repeated to us so often that they seem flip at times but if all of us lived these values then things like this wouldn't happen, either in the US or British Army, or in any other Army.
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Originally posted by Leslie
I think I'm losing my mind.
Les
Wasn't there a song in the 80's by that title?
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I don't know Shaden. My quote came from the three stooges where Larry shot Moe in the as with a tack shooting sub machinegun while they were upholstering a sofa. Moe said, "I think I'm losing my mind."
Les
:cool:
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Thought I heard my name.
where name calling and taunting by people like Bodhi, Grunherz, VOR and the same core group of right wingers resembles noon time recess at an elementary school rather than a bulletin board discussion...
1. Whom have I ever taunted?
2. When have I ever stooped to "name calling"?
3. What makes you think I'm right wing?
Yeah, I posted a rant a couple of weeks ago..but it was clearly labeled as such. As I recall, I took a little flak and was labeled myself..but not the label you just stuck to me.
I've never put anyone on ignore before, but I'd like to know what made you say the above before I decide to make you my first.
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Carefull VOR the power of the ignore option is very difficult to resist once you head down that path......
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Schaden yeh I can see how it might become habit forming..I hate the thought of doing it because I like to hear what everyone has to say regardless of the fact that I might or might not like it. In a few cases it seems like the only practical alternative to up and leaving the board altogether.
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IMAO what a surprise..
First news about this came out 1 year ago.
But these pictures .... aaawwww.... these pictures doesnt need any comment...
Viva profesional army
:D
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Nah don't leave just take it for what it is - what I find interesting is that some people find things to be very difficult to talk about - my Today in History post for instance - which is fair enough, but what is very revealing is that they don't ask "Why is this post making me feel uncomfortable or angry?"
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Originally posted by Airhead
Why the double standard? Those of us who have posted opposition to the Iraq occupation are bombarded by being called left wing, anti American Communist terrorist lovers who hate America, interspread with JPEGs of some drugged out hippie who is portrayed as what "we" are.... where every issue quickly deteroriates into a slam fest on the Democrats....
Why is it so acceptable to stereotype one side of the political spectrum in a negative light, but it's forbidden to stereotype the OTHER side of the political spectrum in a negative light?
Some of you might want to think about what you post before you post it. Your right wing rants and name calling are getting tired.
Airhead, it just happens that there are more Republican Guard than Dems using this board. It's easier for them to slander Democrats here than having to wait on hold for Rush Limbaugh.Fear not, the American population as a whole is a bit more diverse. I'm a liberal AND I served in the military. According to "The Right" that is impossible and I should have been throwing eggs at the Statue of Liberty instead of serving the country I love.
I'm not sure they understand freedom means freedom for everyone, not just the ones that you agree with.
As for the soldiers, they knew what they were doing was wrong. No 2 ways about that. The UCMJ has it all spelled out in Black and White. I suspect a free vacation in Kansas is on the horizon.
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Wasn't there a song in the 80's by that title?
I think I'm turning Japanese :)
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Why is this post making me feel uncomfortable or angry?"
That's food for thought. You may be onto something.
Now that I'm pondering your question, ponder mine: Why did you make the post? Be honest! ;)
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Well it started with I think Strk posting something from the Guardian - about the POW photo's and I went to look at the page.
While I was there I saw that they had a This Day in History page, I thought it would be about the death of Hitler, which was around this time but when I opened it I saw it was about America leaving Vietnam.
It seemed to me to be ironic that one of the key events in SE Asia, from a war that resonates so strongly within America even today occurred during the same week as America finds itself in another war.
I posted the link to see if anyone on the BBS would make that connection, what was interesting was that people got very upset. Why - because they realised, even those who are fervent pro Bush, that there are direct similarities - if there were not why be upset?
Educated rational people should be able to discuss events around them, what is happening in Iraq is going to effect America for the next 50 years - much as Vietnam effects America today - what actually happens in here however is that people run on raw emotion based on parroted or pasted pre-concieved ideas.
Made me laugh when some idiot thought he'd show me by saying that "Next Tuesday is the anniversary of the Falklands where a British Destroyer was sunk!! So there!!"
Um, I'm not British, I admire the very, very brave men on both sides of that conflict who did their duty, whether it's Argie Skyhawk pilots or Para's at Goose Green.
Anyway - hope that answers the question, just remember most people on the internet really aren't worth getting worked up about.
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
While I was there I saw that they had a This Day in History page, I thought it would be about the death of Hitler, which was around this time but when I opened it I saw it was about America leaving Vietnam.
It's purely cultural ,ie for the 30/04 I thought of Camerone and about Hitler after I read my newspaper.
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Yes I agree this type of behavior puts the United States and our military services right in the gutter. there was no need for that behavior or to humiliate these men in that fashion. a true low.
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Some of these people acted as bad as the enemy they are fighting.
Very disturbing to see soldiers acting like this.
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Originally posted by storch
Yes I agree this type of behavior puts the United States and our military services right in the gutter.
I wouldn't go that far, it puts those very few who did it there.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
I wouldn't go that far, it puts those very few who did it there.
agreed
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well sadly the europress is already having a field day.
When I served in the Navy during a Med cruise many of the ports of call could not receive us at a Quay.
when this occurred we were usually anchored offshore. In order to allow the ship's crew to take liberty the Navy often hired local boats to transfer sailors ashore. we only had one motor whaleboat and the Captain's gig as small boats for a compliment of 400 odd sailors. two thirds of these which would go ashore on any given evening. usually the boat services ended around midnight and resumed again at 0730 the following day.
If you got lucky and scored a place to stay with a nice tourist lady from Northern Europe you were golden. If not it was find a place to sleep or get to the dock before 2400.
On one of these excursions a member of our ship's company missed the last boat and was too stupid to get laid so instead he stole a fishing boat, got back to the ship and then cast the boat adrift.
The pinhead left his wallet on the fishing boat somehow. when the boat turned up (no worse for the wear) and this ill fated sailor's wallet was found, the locals made a very big deal about not much.
Articles were printed in the local newspapers etc. we were unwelcome in that town. I came up with Idea of passing the hat amongst the crew to pick up a collection to give the damned fisherman some $ to pay for his "damages".
The guy gladly accepted the $. The town poobah had a little ceremony. Hugs were exchanged, the world was once again on it's proper axis. the pinhead squid recieved an NJP (Captain's Mast) and permanent suspension of liberty for the rest of the cruise. And the local papers printed more trash about the United States and it's service personnel.
I take the long way around the barn to explain that the imbecillic actions of one moron damn near messed up one of the finest ports of call in the Med for the entire 7th Fleet.
These six soldiers (one looked like a woman whose appearance rhymes with bike) have now cast shame on all US Forces in that country. No amount of punishment or apology will remedy that. Our "allies" will be having a field day with it.
Already I envision GS preparing more anti American BS that the response to will get me banned.
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Hey Storch, you should know that everywhere in the world, the press will sell much more by 'exposing' crimes and ugly stories than by praising good deeds....
Sad but true.
I'm sure that the Euro press will exploit those events to the last drop, but I'm also pretty sure that the scandal won't be forgotten by the U.S. press neither.
Even if I don't agree with this war, U.S. authorities reacted adequately on this one, as they did about the tank crew who crushed a looter's car...
Don't give press to much attention nor credit.
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No big mystery. They obviously didn't read about Dr. Zimbardo's Stanford University prison experiment in 1971 (http://www.prisonexp.org/).
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Originally posted by gofaster
No big mystery. They obviously didn't read about Dr. Zimbardo's Stanford University prison experiment in 1971 (http://www.prisonexp.org/).
Of course not. Denial is a wonderful thing, isn't it?