Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Capt. Pork on May 02, 2004, 12:50:56 AM
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Originally posted by Boroda
Don't fool yourself. To lose something you first have to have one. Given the history of your military crimes and hypocricy this is not surprising.
Now the whole humanity can see the real face of the "liberators" and "fighters for freedom and democracy"
And you think these acts are characteristic of American behavior?
Sihdee ve svayey vanuche Rossiye ee gnyeeh, cretin.
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LOL, why do you even bother? Pity him. Not only is he a fool, but he lives in Russia.
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Originally posted by SOB
LOL, why do you even bother? Pity him. Not only is he a fool, but he lives in Russia.
I'm a transplanted Russian, myself, SOB, and being such, I recognize the magnitude of the blessing that it is to be an American. This nation has embraced and respected us far more than our native land. When I see somebody utilizing a very narrow opportunity to generalize on my country, especially somebody from a festering cesshole like that, I take it personally.
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Careful with the compliments Pork, he might come on to ya :) Please, put down the chicken wing
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Originally posted by Capt. Pork
And you think these acts are characteristic of American behavior?
What do you consider "American" behaviour. Behaviour that is displayed by Americans? If so than these actions are definately a characteristic of it.
But it would be crappy reasoning to generalise and say, "Therefore all Americans display this characteristic".
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Originally posted by Thrawn
What do you consider "American" behaviour. Behaviour that is displayed by Americans? If so than these actions are definately a characteristic of it.
But it would be crappy reasoning to generalise and say, "Therefore all Americans display this characteristic".
which is exactly the implication I got from Boroda's post. Sometimes it really pisses me off but most of the time I take SOB's view and pitty the sorry bastard. He lives in Russia for God's sake! Not only that but he was raised under the soviets and has proven time and time again here that he believes the crap they taught him. That's sad.
I'll never understand why HT allowed him here after the WB freehost thing.
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Remember how Canadian "Commandos" treated some Somalies?
The "Somalie Incident"
......3 Commando units [Canadian] - a total of 900 soldiers - were sent to Somalia late in 1992. The troops began providing armed escorts for relief convoys and ensuring the security of the military bases from looters.
The next spring, the regiment became the focus of intense media scrutiny and political attention when a young Somali prisoner named Arone died in the custody of 2 Commando and the soldier charged with his killing attempted suicide. The regiment was recalled, courts martial were convened for the troops involved and their commanding officers, and a board of inquiry was struck to investigate "the Somalia incident."
The situation deteriorated further when allegations of a cover-up emerged. Subsequently, a highly graphic videotape became public which showed troops from 1 Commando engaged in brutal and apparently racist hazing activities. The Department of National Defence made an executive decision to end the inquiry and disband the regiment.
With the inquiry incomplete, there are no reliable conclusions regarding the conduct of the Airborne in Somalia, but several theories have been advanced:
inadequate leadership and command structure due to recurring and recent reorganization
degraded morale stemming from inappropriate tasking of an elite combat unit to a "police" action
the influence of troops in 2 Commando who were allegedly linked to white-supremacist groups in western Canada
severe neurological side-effects of a controversial anti-malaria drug (mefloquine) given to the troops prior to deployment
In the end, one soldier was sentenced to 5 years in prison. Another, who had suffered brain damage in his suicide attempt, was found unfit for trial. No officers were convicted in the courts martial. The Canadian Airborne Regiment held its final parade on March 15, 1995. Its troops were dispersed to 3 parachute companies formed within their home regiments of the regular force.
Canadian behavior? Behaviour that is displayed by Canadians? If so than these actions are definately a characteristic of it.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
What do you consider "American" behaviour. Behaviour that is displayed by Americans? If so than these actions are definately a characteristic of it.
But it would be crappy reasoning to generalise and say, "Therefore all Americans display this characteristic".
I don't get it, are you contradicting yourself? This behavoir is characteristic of American behavior and yet it's a crappy generalization to say so--which one is it?
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I'm not contradicting myself. It depends on your definition of "American behaviour".
If you mean behaviour displayed by Americans. Than the are actions displayed by the people involved is "American behaviour". However that does not mean it is displayed by all Americans. Regardless of what Broda said, I doesn't even mean that displayed by all or even most of the US military, nor is it institutionalised or desireable with in the US military. Cripes they people are being charged and are probably going to jail.
I find what most people do when they present a statement such as yours tend to make the next jump, "Well, they aren't true Americans.". Or, "That's not real American behaviour. Thus changing the definition of what an American is to disallow the characteristic, but turning the definition into something meaningless, and nebulous to fit thier arguement. An American is simply someone that is a citizen of the US.
Batz, I'm not going to change my reasoning simple because you replace the world "American" with "Canadian". But I will point out that our reponse to the display of that characteristic was to have a full public Parlimentary inquiry, charge, try, and convict those involved and to disband the entire unit.
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Whatever, I guess our evil American Government has done nothing to remedy the cause of what took place in Iraq? You better look that up.
You are full **** about your Governments response, initially they tried to cover it up, after the more facts and a Video came out then they were forced to address it, after all some one was killed by Canadians while in their custody.
In the end, one soldier was sentenced to 5 years in prison. Another, who had suffered brain damage in his suicide attempt, was found unfit for trial. No officers were convicted in the courts martial.
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Originally posted by Batz
Whatever, I guess our evil American Government has done nothing to remedy the cause of what took place in Iraq? You better look that up.
Are you blind?
"Cripes they people are being charged and are probably going to jail."
You are full **** about your Governments response, initially they tried to cover it up, after the more facts and a Video came out then they were forced to address it, after all some one was killed by Canadians while in their custody.
No, you are full of ****. The part of the military tried to cover it up and . The government's reponse was to launch a public inquiry.
Yes someone was killed in Canadian custody, I don't despute that. Nor does it change my orginal point.
"If you mean behaviour displayed by Americans. Than the are actions displayed by the people involved is "American behaviour". However that does not mean it is displayed by all Americans."
Now are you going to actually address it or continue with this strawman bull****?
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I am "addressing" your typical, liberal, Canadian hypocrisy.
But I will point out that our reponse to the display of that characteristic was to have a full public Parlimentary inquiry, charge, try, and convict those involved and to disband the entire unit.
You specify "our response" as if it something different then the American response. I asked you examine the American reponse. Even within the US military they have been more open then in the Canadian response to their soldiers murdering an African in their custody.
No, you are full of ****. The part of the military tried to cover it up and . The government's reponse was to launch a public inquiry.
Your military like ours is subordinate to the Civilian leadership. Your Government did not do much of anything until a video was made public and it appeared racism was a motivation. Even then the inquiry was incomplete:
The Department of National Defence made an executive decision to end the inquiry and disband the regiment.
With the inquiry incomplete, there are no reliable conclusions regarding the conduct of the Airborne in Somalia, but several theories have been advanced:
- inadequate leadership and command structure due to recurring and recent reorganization
- degraded morale stemming from inappropriate tasking of an elite combat unit to a "police" action
- the influence of troops in 2 Commando who were allegedly linked to white-supremacist groups in western Canada
- severe neurological side-effects of a controversial anti-malaria drug (mefloquine) given to the troops prior to deployment
They blame everything from white-supremacy to anti malaria drugs...
If you are confident in stating that the incident in Iraq, where a few US soldiers treated a few Iraq prisoners badly, is a fine definition of "American behavior" then you should also agree that the "Somalia incident", where Canadian soldiers abused and murdered a Somali and abused others is an example of "Canadian behavior".
Now leave you liberal dancing at the border and address that.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Are you blind?
"Cripes they people are being charged and are probably going to jail."
No, you are full of ****. The part of the military tried to cover it up and . The government's reponse was to launch a public inquiry.
Yes someone was killed in Canadian custody, I don't despute that. Nor does it change my orginal point.
"If you mean behaviour displayed by Americans. Than the are actions displayed by the people involved is "American behaviour". However that does not mean it is displayed by all Americans."
Now are you going to actually address it or continue with this strawman bull****?
This is nothing but a meaningless example of semantic juggling. It's American behavior because in this case, it was exhibited by people who happened ot be Americans--although it's not behavior that's specific to American people in general... Very profound.
I hope you're not holding your breath for the Nobel Prize this year.
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the word american is a broad generalization...so when you say american behaviour it means how the majority of americans generally act...
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Originally posted by Capt. Pork
And you think these acts are characteristic of American behavior?
actualy it seems to be
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Originally posted by SOB
LOL, why do you even bother? Pity him. Not only is he a fool, but he lives in Russia.
we are talking about Russian.
The country, where has been introduced latest model of Rolls Royce.
Russian is consider to have biggest market for luxury goods.
I dont know exactly why should you pitty him.
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Originally posted by Octavius
Careful with the compliments Pork, he might come on to ya :) Please, put down the chicken wing
:rofl
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Originally posted by Udie
I'll never understand why HT allowed him here after the WB freehost thing.
Were he personaly involved or what ?
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Originally posted by lada
Were he personaly involved or what ?
:rofl Yeah, you could say that... :lol ;)
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Originally posted by lada
we are talking about Russian.
The country, where has been introduced latest model of Rolls Royce.
Russian is consider to have biggest market for luxury goods.
I dont know exactly why should you pitty him.
Ee sho adin nasholsya...
A handful of thugs can afford a luxury car and you use this as an example of Russia being a nice place to live?
What's the average retired government worker making in Russia?
What's the average employed worker making in Russia?
What' the average male life expectancy?
If you find any of these statistics to be favorable, I invite you to spend the rest of your life there.
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Originally posted by Capt. Pork
What's the average employed worker making in Russia?
According to the latest statistics (the State Statistics Committee) the average per capita income in Russia is put at 5,524 roubles a month (approximately 164 euros), but in Moscow the average wage is put at 7,770 roubles (approx. 230 euros). In the rural areas it’s more a question of people making ends meet.
(Source: http://www.europastar.com/europastar/magazine/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000481284 )
Originally posted by Capt. Pork
What' the average male life expectancy?
According to the most recent data compiled by the State Statistics Committee, the average life expectancy for Russian men is less than 59 years.
Source: The St. Petersburg Times (Russia); January 17, 2003; Irina Titova
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It was a rhetorical question Rip. The fact is, it's crappy. Take into account the fact that most of these people are well educated and work in more or less modern fields of endeavor.
Moscow may be a mecca for the luxury trade, but I defy anyone to find me a city with more University-educated prositutes.
When the Russian Special forces dealt with the tragic theater takeover in Moscow a couple years back, most of the civilian deaths were directly attributed to the lack of adequate medical response. In many cases, physically incapacitated rescuees were laid out on the pavement, their mouths open, collecting rainwater, on which they choked.
It was a tragic event all around, but the most basic preparedness on the part of the medical response teams could have serously decreased casualties. There was none because in this 'new russia', human life still means jack ****.
Three years ago, my pops and I visited the Moscow Hospital where he worked up until 1981(when we left). He left the place in a state of shock. He couldn't believe how horrible the conditions had become. Not just how sad the conditions of the equipment and supplied had grown, but how corrupt the administration was.
I truly do pity anyone who lives there. Those who think they're lucky to be there, I pity even more.
God bless the US.
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Originally posted by Batz
I am "addressing" your typical, liberal, Canadian hypocrisy.
No you're not. The issue on the table is wether or not the in Iraq actions were characteristic of American behaviour. Your attempt at a rebutal by saying, "Well Canadians did this somewhere else.", is an irrelevant strawman fallacy, with no bearing on the issue at hand, nor my response to it.
I find it interesting that you make a sweeping generalisation about "Canadian hypocracy" though. First of all I'm to small of sample to make such a generalisation. And secondly I don't see how I have been hypocritical.
You specify "our response" as if it something different then the American response.
No I didn't. I ment it as an ownership, nothing more. Your interpretation is simply that. But thanks for trying to assign your own meaning to it and asscribing it to me, instead of just asking for clarification.
I asked you examine the American reponse.
Yes, you asked for something I had already provided earilier on in the post.
"Cripes they people are being charged and are probably going to jail."
Even within the US military they have been more open then in the Canadian response to their soldiers murdering an African in their custody.
Perhaps but even by your critieria not nearly open enough.
"initially they tried to cover it up, after the more facts and a Video came out then they were forced to address it,"
The charges were brought after more facts and photographs were released by 60 mins and they were forced to address it.
If you are confident in stating that the incident in Iraq, where a few US soldiers treated a few Iraq prisoners badly, is a fine definition of "American behavior" then you should also agree that the "Somalia incident", where Canadian soldiers abused and murdered a Somali and abused others is an example of "Canadian behavior".
Indeed I should. But I am not confident in stating that, nor have I or will I.
I do not say that it is the definition of "American behaviour", but it is representative of an aspect of "American behaviour" if we define "American behaviour" as behaviour displayed by Americans.
If we define "Canada behaviour" as behaviour displayed by Canadians, then yes, the actions taken in Somalia are representitive of an aspect of "Canadian behaviour".
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Originally posted by Capt. Pork
This is nothing but a meaningless example of semantic juggling. It's American behavior because in this case, it was exhibited by people who happened ot be Americans--although it's not behavior that's specific to American people in general... Very profound.
Don't blame me because you discided to us a completely subjective term and not bother to define what you ment by it. And then you are surprise when the arguement come down to semantics? :rolleyes:
And appealing to redicule does prove anything. But I did notice that you didn't bother to comment if you thought the statement was wrong or right.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Don't blame me because you discided to us a completely subjective term and not bother to define what you ment by it. And then you are surprise when the arguement come down to semantics? :rolleyes:
And appealing to redicule does prove anything. But I did notice that you didn't bother to comment if you thought the statement was wrong or right.
My point was that you had no point. Perhaps some or much of your intended meaning was lost in your incomprehensible language.
Regarding your statement, yes, Americans were responsible for the act in question. That much is doubtless. That being said, the fact that it was perpetrated by Americans says nothing at all about Americans as a whole. If it's your intention to label these actions as typical of the American people, then we have nothing to discuss.
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Originally posted by Capt. Pork
My point was that you had no point.
Yes I did.
"I find what most people do when they present a statement such as yours tend to make the next jump, "Well, they aren't true Americans.". Or, "That's not real American behaviour. Thus changing the definition of what an American is to disallow the characteristic, but turning the definition into something meaningless, and nebulous to fit thier arguement. An American is simply someone that is a citizen of the US."
I wanted to clarify things to head the above arguement off at the pass before anyone made it, because I have seen too ofter.
[/B]Perhaps some or much of your intended meaning was lost in your incomprehensible language.[/B]
Well Udie seemed to understand me well enough. And you seemed to as well, to be able to paraphrase me so aptly.
If it is your intention to label these actions as typical of the American people, then we have nothing to discuss.
It is not my intention to do so. I certainly think actions of these few are not representative of the American people or even it's military. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough.
"But it would be crappy reasoning to generalise and say, "Therefore all Americans display this characteristic"."
"Regardless of what Broda said, I doesn't even mean that displayed by all or even most of the US military, nor is it institutionalised or desireable with in the US military."
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Originally posted by Thrawn
It is not my intention to do so. I certainly think actions of these few are not representative of the American people or even it's military. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough.
Fair enough. I think we can stop this now.