Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Mister Fork on May 02, 2004, 12:18:32 PM
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I'm sitting in my plane on a runway and three shells from a CV land 200 feet to my left. In real life, not only would my plane be destroyed, but I can asure you 1/4 of the base would suffer damage. In real life, three shells from a 16" gun could take out a city block. Instead in Aces High, it might take out a AAA gun. There is no modelled blast radius damage from bombs or shells.
Same goes for Iron bombs. Most 500-1000lb bombs could cause a whole lot of hurt. However most 1000lb bombs cause little residual damage to other items outside 20-50 feet. Drop a 500lb bomb next to a tank, it keeps on trucking, but in real life, 99.99% of the time it would knock them over like a dinky.
Being x-military, I know what kind of damage shelling can do. It's not from the main shell, but the dirt and crap it throws out hundreds of miles an hour. A 5lb rock from blast debris travelling at 200mph can penetrate 5" of steel. I've experienced personally concussions from a small enemy motar shell landing 100 feet away.
Blast radius of most items is not really modelled. Pyro/HT - I'm not asking to change the way bombs work by making them more lethal, but it seems that the blast radius is way too small.
But the question is, how hard is it to model blast radius damage? I know in most games, a percentage would apply depending how far out items are from the blast. Is this something that can be coded into the product with ease, or is it a bandwidth hog? I know you guys are planning to introduce towable arty, but could this be incorporated into a future release?
(http://www.poeland.com/tanks/artillery/fz_quick.jpg)
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
I know you guys are planning to introduce towable arty, but could this be incorporated into a future release?
When did they say that?
Sounds interesting...
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The idea of manable arty has been kicked around before, especially with manned 88's and the M7 Priest (m3 w/ 105mm). Run a search in the Aircraft/Vehicle board for this and you'll find many a thread on the subject. The chief problem is without a spotter you can't get accurate hits in any long distance shot. CavemanJ had an excellent idea a few years back of designating another player as your spotter and letting him see a special tracer line or hit color to spot the impact and adjust the shot.
BTW: They aren't 16" guns, they are 8" guns. It's a Baltimore class cruiser, not an Iowa class BB.
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Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School (http://www.wa-net.com/~delta6)
Put the P-61B in Aces High
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Dawn of Aces had an artillery spotting mission type and planes where you could call in an AI artillery strike if you were close enough to the front lines or artillery site.
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
Being x-military, I know what kind of damage shelling can do. It's not from the main shell, but the dirt and crap it throws out hundreds of miles an hour. A 5lb rock from blast debris travelling at 200mph can penetrate 5" of steel. I've experienced personally concussions from a small enemy motar shell landing 100 feet away.
A 5lb rock travelling at 200 mph will NOT penetrate 5" of steel. It will shatter on impact. Even a 5lb steel ball will NOT penetrate 5" of steel if it is only travelling at 200 mph.
Being X-military myself I also know what kind of damage shelling can do. A 130mm artillery shell impacted 30-50 meters away from me. The shrapnel killed one of us, but other than that it was just a really loud bang.
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Being ex-military myself I know that a case of good beer and cheap prostitutes will keep me out in town all night.
There, that is my definative expert opinion.
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RFOL Drunky.
8" on the cruisers? Really? Hmm, 8" shells can pack a walop.
A 5lb 200mph rock will rip through your plane like hot knife on butter. A 1000lb bomb exploding 50-80m next to your aircraft will throw around a foot of dirt over your plane...which would be upside down and 10-20 feet to the other side.
Still, blast radius damage is not modelled well in AHII...
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Now that we can agree on. (But JFYI planes do not have 5" steel armor ;))
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What about 5mm?
Or 5 cm?
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A rock? 5 mm maybe, 5 cm no way.
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i was asking how thick plane armour usually was
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It depend of the place and the location Ben, it can be up to 8mm (perhaps more) or Zero !
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Maybe actual blast effects in the form of damage is not acceptable.
But what about visual effects? Earth and dirt thrown up in the air... shaking views.. and etc etc?
Seeing how the gunfire vibrations were added into the game some time ago, I don't think it'd be too hard to add a "bomb blast shake".
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And bombs throwing tanks and half-tracks about shouldn't be too much of a problem either as the physics are pretty much there.
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
There is no modelled blast radius damage from bombs or shells.
A 5lb rock from blast debris travelling at 200mph can penetrate 5" of steel.
Blast radius is modeled per weapon. I don't disagree that they shouldn't be larger as I erred on the restrictive side when I did them and only considered blast range out to where 1/8th inch mild steel could be penetrated at 1 hit per 10 square feet. They are based on real numbers but I do have to modify them for the shape since we use a circular blast and real blasts have all kinds of odds shapes.
It is something I've been wanting to redo and will get to it pretty soon in AH2. However, I think your expectations are completely out of whack given your above example of a 5lb rock at 200 mph (293 fps). To put that into perspective, a 7.3 lb 57mm armor piercing round at a muzzle velocity of 2700 fps (1840 mph) will only penetrate 4.4 inches of homogeneous plate at 0 degrees obliquity and a range of 0.
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Intuitively I think that a 250kg bomb landing at say 10 meter of a tiger would not make critical damage to the tank but will shock the crew at least.
Is a realistic idea or not ?
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Speaking about shock effects it would be shockingly beautiful to be able to see compression waves spreading from bomb blasts and artillery hits..
It was one of the things that really stuck to my mind while watching discovery channel and old documents of Vietnam airraids.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Speaking about shock effects it would be shockingly beautiful to be able to see compression waves spreading from bomb blasts and artillery hits.
Compression waves are already visible in AH2, what's missing is the slow-motion video of it :D
Cheers,
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I retract what I said about how I did the blast radius. It turns out that I did set much further out than that. I pretty much have them set as far out as I could reasonably take them. One thing to keep in mind when judging this is that we use a superhumongous crater. I think changing the craters and explosions to accurate proportions would substantially help people gauge distances and effects.
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Pyro, would you consider giving a pilot wound feature to anyone caught within the blast area but not killed straight out? Would a blast cause ear loss, loss of bearings, other trauma etc.?
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Rgr that Pyro - Am I correct in stating you will look at changing the crater and explosion size depending on the ordanance for the future?
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speaking of craters, it'd be cool to have the physical part of them enabled again...
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I agree with you on that moot. Running over a crater should cause your landing gear to collapse or cause your vehicle to roll if you're going too fast.
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I definitely agree about the blast radius. Trying to hit tanks dead on with 500lbs's is just stupid.... If you miss, no damage, if you hit, they are toast. Not very realistic from my stand point.