Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: -lazs- on December 30, 2000, 11:37:00 AM
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Ok.... Hate the damn perk points and I'm gonna "cry before I'm hurt" here and say I hate perk planes. Unlike a much more managable "score modifier" for certain planes.... Perk points have made AH'ers even more cowardly and cautious if that's possible. What is the point of perk planes? To add planes into a balanced arena that would otherwise be far too unbalancing? Whaaa? Think that one thru guys... Maybe it is to reward cautious behaviour or to reward camping online at the expense of a life? Or, to give the best pilots the best planes? or, to make sure that Uber plane rants go on unabated? How do you know if a -4 Corsair just outclimbed you or a -1? Cause it's blue? Also... Once you go the perk route... How do you intro early war planes? Reverse perk? come on a couple times a week and you have to fly P39's? Wouldn't a score modifier of say, from 1-3 for less used planes be a Whole lot better? Wouldn't "areas" within the map for late war, mid war, and early war be a more elegant solution? Bombers and (choke) vehicles could follow suit.
Vehicles.... Oops, 200 online... no, 100 flying and 100 manning vehicles. Maybe we don't have a "big enough" group to have both a vehicle and a flight sim at once much less early, mid and late war. Like the carriers tho.
And while i'm in the mode.... What the hell is the story with CH sticks? Wore out the last TM stick and bought one of these things... If WWII pilots had to two finger their joysticks like I have to this wussy stick.... sheesh... I'm in blackout, redout or simply burning e to the tune of the stall horn at all times. doubt if i could kill a newborn using this thing. And what's with the "sticksets"? can't switch sticksets (and hence views) while holding down the hat? In other words... hold a side view with the hat and then try to change sticksets to get side/up.. it can't be done from the stick. Yes..I am in a bad mood.
And before you reply.... I don't like you much either.
lazs
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Well I was going to write a nice post discussing your points above.... but in light of the last line I think I'll be just as far ahead to just say:
BITE ME! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Lephturn
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wow, I guess you really set the tone here...
will not reply on the first half of your breath holding, baby acting, little blue in the face tantrum. But as to the CH stick, i ve been using a combat stick, pro throttle , pro peddals, for 2 years and I am absolutely satisfied with mine. If ya like I can send you my template, and or show you my settings... best I can do.
Please go take a nap, maybe have a valium or 2.
reguards, ammo
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Lazs, as you well know, I used to be the main voice promoting CH to the squad. I now feel that CH is short for CHit.
I have the combatstick, pro throttle and pro pedals. The design of the throttle connection to your computer is awful. There are many times where I can either have my keyboard work or my js setup...but not both.
What good is speedkeys (i.e. the throttle) without the keyboard working? I have sent my throttle to CH several times (love that postage) and they could never find anything wrong. They did replace the throttle once with a new one...nice touch, I might add.
Even with this good service, I am now in the market for another JS. Any suggestions out there?
Pat
SkyVon
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Cowardly is probably not the right word to use,considering this is a game. However I do think perk points may change the way people fly somewhat. One mission last night would be an example. I had just shot down a b17 and then engaged 3 coalt fighters.
If I was thinking "perk" points I should have avoided them. Of course I ended up cyberdead,but I was bored and wanted to shoot at something.
Once we have perk planes added and people know how many "points" they need to get what they want, thats when you will see a real difference. It remains to be seen how well it works , but its my opinion that once its set up right, perking will improve the game.
Que
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Perks: You are jumping the gun. I agree that the scenario you describe would suck, but it's not clear it will happen that way.
Vehicles: I don't know what you were talking about. I was flying for Knights last night and had no problem finding bandits. Several times I took on 5-10 Bishops near A19. I also think the novelty of manning ships' guns and PT boats will wear off. When tanks were first released, a lot of people used them, then people went back to planes.
CH Sticks: If your forearms weren't so well developed from "exercise" then I don't think it would be a problem. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 12-30-2000).]
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And before you reply.... I don't like you much either.
Shut up you hamster noodle.
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jochen
Kids today! Why can't they fetishize Fascist military hardware like normal people?
Ladysmith wants you forthwith to come to her relief
Burn your briefs you leave for France tonight
Carefully cut the straps of the booby-traps and set the captives free
But don't shoot 'til you see her big blue eyes
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Only problem with my CombatStick is that its wearing out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Try next time adjust those stick scalings, might help alot...
I have made stick response alot less sensitive, which really helps to have accurate aim.
I say that C hog needs to be perked, because its truly pathetic to see them used alot more than D hogs.
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Hey, -lazs- that's a good point! Forcing guys to fly the p-39 would wise them up real quick. I might make that a squadron order some day (that'll be real popular).
Okay, this is where I come out and sound like a jerk. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I know you don't like me. When I fly the right way, I won't engage with a mere 5k alt advantage. Simply not enough E advantage, unless I'm hot, for my form of attack. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) But, don't worry. I've been away from AH for awhile. Come kill me when I get back on and I'm flying like a dweeb. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) I'll get even, I promise.
Jerkism off.
On the stick thing I've never had any luck with any stick. CH used to last for a long time, but my most recent sticks become trash way too fast. I tried TM. None of their stuff lasted long enough to get to know, and the really expensive stuff didn't work right. CH has always worked for me, it just doesn't last. I tried Saitek. Their early stuff too, which made me give up on them. I've heard their new stuff is better and I can tell you they have the better approach. If I can find a Saitek setup that won't break (that's what happened, it was a physical limitation) I'll own one forever. I always hated TM too much to buy more then the first three that I did.
When I checked out Microsoft's Sidewinder junk I decided Microsoft was better off in software.
Why can't any of these guys build a spun titanium grip on a mil-spec gimbal and outfit it with mil-spec pots, switches that won't gum up, and state of the art circuits? I hate spending $300 every six months to a year. Make something priced in the $500-1k range that will last, and then discount the crap out of it! I'm a poor man and I can't take these constant refits.
Voss 13th T.A.S.
[This message has been edited by Voss (edited 12-30-2000).]
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I'm with Voss on that last point (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
CH is good stuff, but it doesn't last...
Saw
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I suggest that there be perk bases. The perk planes can only be flown from selected bases. If you capture the base you get the plane. Also limit the number of the perk planes available at the bases. Anyone can fly them 1st come 1st serve. Then tie them to the strat. If your refinery gets bombed (or something like that) no perk planes even with perk bases. This would get some bombing going on. Seems like the new map and perk point fever has almost stopped the buffs. I haven't seen a B24 since the 1st day of the new map. Matter of fact (on the Rook side at least) the over all cooperation has dropped since the new map and system has come out. I do like the idea of perk type stuff but I think a little modification as stated above would make it better.
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Ok, feel better now... don't do drugs anymore but I did do some 0-60 runs in my Healey.
funked... oh fleecer of the blue haired set..... I admitted that I am crying before I am hurt but I simply can't see a way that introducing uber planes into an otherwise balanced arena would be a good thing.. if they are rare then they will be despised less often but then what would be the point in the first place? And.... the people flying em would be the ones you would least like to see in one. If they are not rare then why not just make it an "anything goes" arena? No, I don't see why we couldn't just have 3 different areas in the same arena. People could not only track what was going on in all the "areas" but could jump from one area to the next depending on what they wanted to fly.
jochen... I thought part of your probation was that you were to stay away from hamsters?
vehicles? sure, as the novelty wears off less people will man em but as the novelty wears off.... less people will be on line. That's why different arenas have never worked. People don't go to an empty arena. You can't get people to log off and then on to another arena. One big arena with 3 different areas would be a simple solution to the problem IMO.
Perk points? Can I give mine to anyone I want? I certainly will never use em. I have no patience to fly a perk plane for more than a sortie or two without dyoing anyway. No, I would give mine to drex or hooligan since that would make them more or less invulnerable and keep them in perk planes forever therefore.... proving my point.
CH springs... you guys are kidding right? Pull it (the stick) to one side with your pinky, let it go and boooing.. Seriously, how weak are some of you guys?
lazs
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Lazs FWIW I learned flight sims on the original CH joystick (circa 1984) which had about a 1" stick length. So I learned to fly with the edge of my hand resting on the table or stick base, moving the stick with my thumb and first two fingers. This gives a lot finer control than using my whole arm. CH sticks are perfect for this.
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You know what? Real Flight (a flight sim for R/C guys) comes with an interface to plug in a transmitter. My JR Galaxy 8 would offer precise control if I could get it to work with AH. I know it can't work this way (not my luck), but imagine if you could utilize the functionality of its programming!
Man, I want that! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Voss 13th T.A.S.
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voss we probly agree on the stick thing... with all the talent in the FS community you would think someone would come up with an infinitly adjustable, titanium stick that was simple to program and bulletproof... The talent is probly reading this right now.
lazs
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CH stick is junk as far as I'm concerned. Bought a new one about a year ago to go with my CH throttle and Pro Rudder Pedals. What a disappointment. Springs WAY weak, pots spiky as hell. Sent it back and was sent a replacement. Not quite as spiky as the last one, but did respond to contact cleaner. Supplemented springs with some 1/4" rubberbands which break at just the wrong time. At least once a week had to take it apart, replace the rubberbands, and clean the pots. Tried the TM Platinum. Good springs, but lousy bearings and pots. Finally took advice of a squaddy and bought a Logitech Wingman Digital. Springs good but not great, perfectly reliable, nice scaling. I'll stick with it until something "right" shows up.
GronK
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Yeah, I could design the thing, but it would take someone like Tru-Turn to manufacture the grip and base. Carlton Bates no longer sells to the public, but they sport all the necessary innards in their catalog. I wonder if anyone currently in the joystick business flies here? And why are we still using cheap pots? Eight years ago I made a set of rudder pedals from C.B. mil spec. 150k ohm carbon pots and you know what? Not only does it not drift, spike or lose its center, but after eight years it still works!
Voss 13th T.A.S.
[This message has been edited by Voss (edited 12-30-2000).]
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You've probably tried this already, but for an overly sensitive (or too easy to move) stick, try setting the control deflection at VERY low numbers on the left side of the curve, i.e. don't even get up to 10% control deflection until you're at 50% stick throw. Then curve up to 100% at the right side. Set it up so that when you're in a turnfight, with half stick deflection, a small movement produces a very small control deflection (slope < 1).
An old kludge solution was to wrap a bunch of rubber bands on the stick to increase the resistance to movement. If you're an engineer-type, you could also try lengthening the "stick" part of the joystick, so that a 1" movement of the stick produces a smaller movement of the potentiometer than it did with the original stick movement. Always wanted to try building a floor-mounted stick, which would give MUCH finer control, but never had the guts to chop up a new joystick to do it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
As for perk planes, won't that mean that the "best" pilots end up in the best planes, and the weaker pilots never get to fly em? That might have been historical I guess (but only for the Axis--Allied "dweebs" got to fly P-51Ds) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) but it doesn't sound like a good "gameplay" measure. Encouraging guys to try to stay alive is fine, but "forcing" them to do it in order to "earn" better planes only works if they actually CAN stay alive. A guy who isn't that great NOW isn't going to fare much better when he's being gang-banged by aces in superduperplanes (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
--jedi
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I thought of that too, Jedi. Another sim'er and I were going to get together and build a few examples. It wouldn't be pretty though. I can't mold plastic and titanium is a pipe dream for this area.
Someday, someone will market one. I hope.
It would be nice to build one with an adjustable chair mount. Something like a 172 front seat. I'd go for realism and a reconstructed 51 seat, but I don't have a parachute to sit on! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I'd settle for a stick that lasted me just two years. In titanium please. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Voss 13th T.A.S.
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Originally posted by Fishu:
Only problem with my CombatStick is that its wearing out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Try next time adjust those stick scalings, might help alot...
I have made stick response alot less sensitive, which really helps to have accurate aim.
I say that C hog needs to be perked, because its truly pathetic to see them used alot more than D hogs.
Heh after seeing the score modifier at work.. DO NOT PERK THE CHOG!! There are so many in the MA, and their ENY score is 10!! +) The Dhog's is 28!! Chog will be an easy ticket to a real perk ride (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Errm if i wasn't clear.. fly anything you like with the exception of the chog, and you will rake in the points. The chog is all over the bloody place and to shoot one down helps the score quite nicely.
I accidentally hopped in a chog the other night, got 4 kills (1 goon), died and got less than 2 points for my trouble. Do that in a dhog, and you likely will score double digits.
Its the aircraft sitting close to the PERK line that will earn you your own perk ride. Right now we don't have perk planes, so lets get after the next closest thing...the CHOG.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
AKskurj
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jochen... I thought part of your probation was that you were to stay away from hamsters?
I thought your medication for male menopause were effective?
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jochen
Kids today! Why can't they fetishize Fascist military hardware like normal people?
Ladysmith wants you forthwith to come to her relief
Burn your briefs you leave for France tonight
Carefully cut the straps of the booby-traps and set the captives free
But don't shoot 'til you see her big blue eyes
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joch... i know it's cold there now but.... for gawds sake stay away from the pet stores! I doubt that the authorities will be so lenient next time... Do it for the children joch!
lazs
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Yep jedi, u got it right... As we speak, the most skilled pilots are accumulating "perk" points at an advanced (comparitively) rate in order that they may get to fly vastly superior planes against their less skilled bretheren in the arena. The reason for this is.....ah...
Still don't see why they can't have their own "area" in the arena. One click and you are in either an early, mid or late war area. All in the same arena and all balanced out.
lazs
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Drool all you want...
M$ Sidewinder 3D Pro, had it for 3 years and it still works just fine. No spikes, no twitchiness, holds calibration forever, and has yet to fail me in any flight sim. What did I pay for this wonderous piece of Micro$h^t hardware? All of $35.
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Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
"For yay did the sky darken, and split open and spew forth fire, and
through the smoke rode the Four Wurgers of the Apocalypse.
And on their canopies was tattooed the number of the Beast, and the
number was 190." Jedi, Verse Five, Capter Two, The Book of Dweeb
(http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/htbin/custom1.jpg)
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Lazs.... can you email me your correct email address? Your address in your profile does not resolve correctly.
I've got a couple of Hog questions I would like answered (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Regards
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MS stick works great but has no springs in it and has the twisty stick thingie... I would be fine with that tho if it had some decent springs in it and I could set it up for rudders and throttle and get stick set buttons on the stick to work while in the other views. Want an old TM PFCS stick with a metal handle and good hat that is USB. I would be glad to pay what twice what the other sticks cost for one like that. Hell.... I would still buy (and be breaking) PFCS at $100 a pop if they made em.
lazs
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Since I've never been a fan of any point system in online sims, so how 'bout this...
A reverse perk system...have all planes available to everyone and as points are accumulated you are forced to fly the older, less uber planes. Point HO's and 24/7 junkies would have to use pilot skill instead of uberplaneability to keep on top of that lawn sausage pile called point system. <G,D,R>
Lars
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The perk system seems needlessly complicated to me.
I'd say simply assign score modifiers based on the capabilities of the plane and leave it at that.
The old WB system was NOT good. It based the modifier on the number of kills each plane got in the arena over the course of the TOD and the RPS.
So, every uberplane that came along in the RPS was also carried a very high score modifier until the kills scored it in it started to really mount up.
Again, needlessly complicated.
It's not hard to figure out which planes are the most capable and effective in the game.
Just give them base score and leave the modifiers for the 'lesser' planes.
As for awarding uberplane rides for perk points. Jeez, I dunno. I guess it would be ok as long as the number or sorties in the ride were limited. ie, make it really tough to get a Tempest or P51H for more than one or two evenings each TOD.
Alternatively, make the perk rides available only during the last week of each TOD.
As for joysticks...
My all time fave was the FCS Pro. But they tended to break (hat switches 4 times and the handle itself once).
Now I use the CH force feedback stick and CH pro USB pedals.
I'll probably add in my TM WCS markII also.
I tried a CH throttle and didn't like it.
What I'd REALLY like to see is a full size stick and rudder combo. The much longer 'throw' of a full size stick would make precise flying quite a bit easier.
For example, in a real spitfire, the stick needed to move only a few inches to get full deflection on the control surfaces.
On a computer stick that translates into about a 1/4 of an inch.
The drawback would be the general awkwardness of storing and using the stick at a computer desk.
finn