Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Hangtime on October 03, 2000, 09:28:00 AM
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Damn.. had a miserable time with the .50's again last night. Tracking shots seem fine; but as soon as a I went into defelection mode it was pityful.. oh; so pityful...
Currently, Im gunning .0362... last tour was a new low point, .0810; prior to that I was doing a steady .1100 for 8 tours.
Somethings up... soon as I pull even a 1/2 'g' the rounds seem to just fall outta the barrels.. no hits. I dunno.. just can't seem to find that 'sweet spot' anymore.
*sniff* Is it me?? my vid card drivers? my slowpoke machine? WHAT?? We're told that the 'gunnery model has not been changed'.. explanations of 'were all going faster; you need more lead' just don't wash.. at 110 knots, in a stall; turn with a guy; pulling lead and then missing the shot at point blank range is not only improbable.. it's damn near impossible. Yet I do. Time after time.. only thing is.. I've got about 2 to 3 g's on the plane.. and dammit' it's like the rounds are travelling thru mud. This same scenario used to yeild kills.. now it yeilds nothin. I can't even see the damn tracers.. above 1.5 'g's they vanish under the nose. 1.5 g's!! That just don't seem right!
Velocity? Ballistics? G loading effects?? Trajectory?? WHAT ISSIT!!
Arrgh.. Hitech.. lets go do some more 1v1.. there's gotta be somethin I'm doing wrong...
Hang
Hang
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Disappearing icons = re-adjusting aim due to having a 'cheat' so to speak = re-assess high angle of attack, snap shots.
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I feel your pain Hangtime.. my deflection shooting has totally dried up. I've changed how I've had to fly as a result to go for more tracking shots.
You should try and fly a LW bird like I did last night, it's even worse. I had a slightly maneuvering Spit infront of me at D450 and had to adjust my aim to a point to barely over the cowling to get hits.
Soda
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Originally posted by Soda:
I feel your pain Hangtime.. my deflection shooting has totally dried up. I've changed how I've had to fly as a result to go for more tracking shots.
You should try and fly a LW bird like I did last night, it's even worse. I had a slightly maneuvering Spit infront of me at D450 and had to adjust my aim to a point to barely over the cowling to get hits.
Soda
Try deflection shooting in an F4U with its 16 foot nose sticking out there to spoil all your deflection shots.
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I liked how it was BEFORE.. you could dogfight.. and get kills. This ain't an 'icon' issue.. something else is afoot.
Now; it's a running game. To get a shot, you need a tracking solution.. in other words.. if he's turning; he's immune to anthing but lucky cannon fire. If he's running; you can get him if yer fast enuff. Is this how we wanna fly and fight? Do I go for B&Z only in the pony to get kills? Sucks; if thats the solution.
Sure as hell, I can't hit nothin when the other guy starts turnin; twitchin; yankin and bankin. Are there any rounds in flight BESIDES the tracers?
I'm convinced there's something wrong. Convince me that there ISN'T! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Think about it. Something dramatic has changed with the gunnery.. I've waited a full tour to speak up; thinking I just had to re-learn the new FM.. but I'm comming to the conclusion it's not a FM issue. And it sucks. Don't kid yerself.. this has NOTHIN to do with icons.
Hang
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Push over there Hang I wanna join you in the boat. Pass me a bailing bucket too please.
Because I cant hit the broad side of a barn either.
Lately from my FE it looks like people are not flying to avoid being caught in a firing solution, but fly to let you into a firing solution and then just at the point of firing they are dodging bullets like a kid playing dodge ball in grade 7.
Does anyone else see this ? It seems like common place to me now .
Is it internet connection issues? The difference between drone shooting and arena shooting is night and day on my end.
Even tracking shots are different. My shots seem to go right through targets now.
Did system requirements change?
Is bullet velocity slow enough so that when I see the enemys guns twinkle behind me I can avoid the being hit?
I am probably out to lunch but things sure seem different on my front end in the gunnery dept.
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Hang, nothing in readme since V1.03 changed anything in the gunnery as far as I know, and I'm sure HTC would have told us, their customers business is at stake, why risk that business by changing something, then not notifying the customer?
Pyro has posted in one of these threads that "Nothing has changed" in regards to the ammunition, gunnery.
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Bandits are pulling more Gees, so you need more lead. It's that simple.
Tip: Longer convergence settings throw the bullets up higher.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 10-03-2000).]
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I hate to miss out on a chance to whine about gunnery. But this just isnt happening to me. I never got in the habit of useing icons so when they disappear i hardly notice. Ive always timed deflection shots and they work the same as always. On the other hand ive always been a cannon dweeb, and never depended on the flat trajectory of the MG,s
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I can accept miscalculation on my lead.
But I cannot for the life of me explain the bullet dodge. Its like shooting against a arena of Mannix's (Old Private Dick TV show with lead character who had the seemingly unbelievable ability to dodge the badguys bullets) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I'm convinced there's something wrong. Convince me that there ISN'T! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Convince me the sky is Blue! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Kinda makes it a circular arguement doesn't it?? Of course I'm kidding with you. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
However I have to agree with the others, I'm seeing the same gunnery as before, except that you need to lead them more.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Well Hang, you have started another conspiracy. I too have noticed the gunnery is getting tougher for the B&Z crowd.
HT did say yesterday, while in the arena that he was turning off the wind, because it was porking the gunnery.
Odd, hmmmm..........makes me wonder. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
wizzer
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I think like Funked, planes turns harder due to new E, then need more lead.
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Yep Hang, I'm having the same problem though only since 1.04/2 I guess it is to do with more lead but I'm even starting to struggle at 100 ft away! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
'Nexx'
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PS Hangtime are you strafing a lot? If you strafe at all it will artificially lower your shooting %.
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Seems to me the realism caught up with us. with fixed FM, an enemy can pull more G's requiring more lead and no icons to help aiming under the nose.
That matches well with RL where at least 80% of the kills were surprise kills - tracking shots against a non-evading target that did not even know the combat has been initiated.
The saying was "lose sight-lose fight", not "get in his forward hemisphere and die". Remember, that even the easier snapshots we enjoyed until recently were possible mainly to the laser rangefinder (currently also invisible under the cowling...)
According to the anecdotal evidence, evasion was relativelly easy against a single enemy. It was his wingie that nailed your careless ass.
I am sure that most of that 20% of "non-surprise" kills were probably still surprise to the victim because of that.
HTC could dumb the game to make snapshots viable (ransparent cowling, etc.).
HTC could smarten the game to make surprise attacks more viable (reduce icons/inflight radar).
We could resort to the RL wingmen tactics. That would be the best solution IMO. It is not possible to outmaneuver two enemies if they know what they are doing. One guy makes you lose your energy/SA evading and then another one goes for the kill. That is why T&B planes gave way to B&Z planes.
You can outrun multiple enemies no worse then you can a single guy.
miko
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Oh my god.. they can't hit..
I do hit fine even without tracers (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hangtime, better go back to train your gunnery.
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Issue is that even a clean shot against a manuvering target misses. Not that you cant bring the guns to bear.
Gyrations of the target should be irellevent if the rounds are passing through his airspace. That is not the case.
Manix.
Thats perfect.
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I found that my gunnery improved when I went from the C-Hog to the D-Hog. It improved drastically.
AKDejaVu
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Hangtime,
I dont know if anything in the gun modeling changed....perhaps it has, maybe gravity is pulling rounds down sooner? What has reaaly screwed me over is no longer being able to predict the maneovering con hidden by the cowling. Good thing is, it works for me as well as against me.
Im still trying....
Yeager
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Same here Hang....Mine used to be 14 to 18 range...now its 3-6...yikes!
Gunnery is not good for me....I figured I'de just keep on keepin on until I get better and figure it out.
Setting convergence as suggested above may be the fix...gonna try it tonite. I have always set my convergence at 250...275...300 in the 51...gonna move it out to 500 and see if this helps.
Out!
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I just think everyone should fly nice and level for me so I can get a really good shot in.... if you're really nice you'd fly a C47 too. Sorta like a drone for the MA.
Soda
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Thanks guys.. I appreciate the feedback!
The diversity of the responses, measured against what I know of their flying styles, gives me some clue as to the culprit.. the B&Z crowd is un-affected. The T&B types are cursing.. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I reject the icon under the canopy bit.. I don't expect to get those shots; have given up even squeezing the trigger till I have the subject in view. The problem is certainly lead realated.. not enuff; higher g's; so add more lead. This puts the guy under the nose.. no shot.
WHY IN HELL DO I NEED 3 PLANE LENGHTS OF LEAD AGAINST A TARGET 175 YARDS AWAY, MANUVERING IN PLANE WITH ME? My screen wont display a FOV that large! This can't be right! Cripes; everything I've ever read states that at those ranges; with the velocity of the .50 round, that that much lead is not necessary.. in fact; hardly ANY lead should be necessary. As it is now,
if there is any 'g' loading on the gun platform; it's a useless shot.
The 'higher speed, more lead in this version' noise don't wash fully clean IMO; simply because at the speeds I'm turning and firing at are just as damn slow as they were in 1.03. A stall turn deflection snapshot at 175 yards going 140mph SHOULD be the same now as it was in 1.03. It ain't!
Also a classic new miss for me is that 'he's hanging on the prop trying to get over the top' shot. He's dead in space.. pretty much. I'm commin up the ramp under him; he's pinned in my sights at 200 yards. No significant 'g's on me; I've unloaded; and am hanging too. He's parked. Lay the pipper on and hose him.... nothin. I'm watchin the tracers reach out.. run through him.. nothin.
IS MY MACHINE THE PROBLEM????
How could it be??? Off line; that shot works. In fact; I can't seem to miss off line. In H2H arena; that shot works. On line; in the arena; the shot's a bust.
I know.. I was there when HT mentioned wind. we talked about the lead, we talked about the snapshots being useless; and we talked about differences in g loads with the new rev; and we talked about higher speeds. After 350+ sorties and 425+ kills; I'm sayin something still ain't right. Yes; I accept and am aware that gunnery per se was not changed with this update.
So what changed that explains the misses at point blank range? What explains the insane leads required at stall turn speeds? What explains the massive reduction in the ability to land a zero angle zero g shot against a fixed point target?
I dunno! Hints please.. and no icon noise; and please; spare me the higher speed, more lead noise too. I've adjusted.. the simple tracking shots work fine; usually.
System.. 466 Celeron. 128 megVram. Viper 770 w/32 meg. Driver version 4.11.01.0402 Win98 OS. DX7a drivers installed. Running in 1024x768, 32 bit; hi rez tex package installed. Frames average 35fpm in flight at 20k. (drops to 22-28 in single combat; less near fields or in multiples)
I'm wondering if the guys that arn't seeing a significant diffrence in gunnery are also set up on high end machines... ??
Hang (off to check fer new DX driversa and new refrence drivers for the Viper)
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V-sync off?
SKurj
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Nope. Should it be?
Found new refrence 'detonator 3' drivers from nvidia. I've loaded em up; will give em a try.
Hang
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Hang using a 1 Gig AMd and Geforce 256 DDR here and seem to be suffering terribly in the gunnery.
Tour 7 was over 8%
Tour 8 was over 6%
And whats really seriously got me annoyed today is Tour 9 so far 2%
For me i have more chance of hitting the enemy with deflection shots if not my only chance for some reason, and i do prefer TnB to BnZ but employ both to some extent.
If i saddled up on the 6 of an enemy during tour 8 i could waste a complete ammo load trying to hit stupidly jinking, jerking, flicking and sometimes just plain disappearing targets and i will not open fire above 300.
Also like you its not the missing icon thats causing this i can live with that and i am well aware of how to lead a target etc. Tonight for example on the 6 of a blind 51 perfect line up 300 distance fire and no problemo for him cos i MISSED !
Shortly after when i removed his complete wing and saw it fall... No wait whats this his damn wing has regrown in about 5 seconds flat and he runs away as happy as can be !
Now i know this could easily be a bad conn night for me and I have to keep trying but much more of this and it will be hard to convince myself to keep paying for a game that i really love to play.
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Don't know about any conspiracy, but HT's kills have gone up in 1.04. Looks like somethings changed or he just got better. I used to be medium shooter, now i suck.
Hang is on to something. Watch your back.
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Originally posted by sax:
Don't know about any conspiracy, but HT's kills have gone up in 1.04. Looks like somethings changed or he just got better. I used to be medium shooter, now i suck.
Hang is on to something. Watch your back.
Interesting. Very interesting. Someone thinks the gunnery has changed and this guy jumps in from left field "...HT's kills have gone up in 1.04. Looks like somethings changed or he just got better."
Yeah, something did change smart guy.. the flight model. Everyone's K/D has gone up with this new flight model because it's HARDER to kill someone when they can jinx around the sky with a lower E loss.
Some people were born with brains, others weren't meant to have one.
EDIT:: My hit % for Tour9 so far using an Fw-190A5 with the two cannon load out: 0.0874.
Hit % for Tour8 using the pony and 109F4 w/gondolas: 0.0809. Hit % for Tour7: 0.0777.
-SW
[This message has been edited by AKSeaWulfe (edited 10-03-2000).]
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Nope it ain't the vid drivers. The det3 release locks up in the sim.. back to the diamond drivers.
Gonna try movin my convergence out to 350 from 275.. tho I don't usually squirt at anything that far away.
Gonna have to be a sniper I guess.. hang back and hose... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
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I've found thru testing that when the bullets hit the target they do more damage. I'll need to look at it more before I can say anything conclusive though.
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Fatty
Fat Drunk Bastards (http://fdb.50megs.com)
"Quit cryin in yer beer, it'll make it go flat."
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My gunnery percentage hasn't changed much in the last few tours. (It increased a little bit actually.) It does "seem" like something has changed though IMO. I no longer take deflection shots as much as I used to, because you just don't land enough hits to justify the number of rounds you have to fire. I personally felt the reason my deflection shooting isn't as good as it used to be is the bigger difference in turning rates between the planes now. In my experience deflection shooting on a plane that rolls or turns quickly is almost a waste of ammo. Just try to hit a zeke in a flat 6g turn, or for that matter a 190 once he goes into a barrel roll type of manuver, it's almost impossible to get kills without burning up an enormous amount of ammo.
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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LOL fatty
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I havn't been around here for long, and I'm not exactly sure how AH computes gunnery hits, but it seems that what most people are complaining about are connection problems.
If you shoot right at someone and it looks like your shots are going thru him, but they arn't being counted as a hit, that sounds like either a server sync problem, or you have a high ping, and the server sees your shots as going behind the guy. Where the plane is on your screen is actually where he was 300ms or so ago, so shooting directly at him (with adjustment for shell trajectory and such) won't work. You'll actually have to aim where he'll be in another .5 second or so.
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NOT TRUE! You aim to hit them on your FE picture - it doesn't matter where the other plane "really" is on the other pilots FE - he could "really" be 5 miles away, it wouldn't matter.
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have the same problem Hang .. what i also figure is that former targets (in 1.03) just depleted their E so much in a break turn that you could yoyo up and over and then get a nice tracking shot .. now they cann pull hard G for a very long time .. and a spit or another T&Br for that matter who puts his nose down a bit while pulling can keep evading any trackable shot basically indefinetely...
I'm also experiencing more "nose bounce" than ever before .. (a contributing factor is that i'm tensing up before the shot more than i did before and therfor bounze the nose mysefle .. i'm not too sure about that tho)
DW6
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Hang, why dont you film some of these missions so that we can see what you are seeing, and post them here.
That way we can look at it and talk about the same thing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Whelp..
As AKDeja said.. 'Hang; yah just can't shoot! yer gunnery SUCKS!!!"
LOL.. He must be right. Followed Citabria around fer a bit last night.. never saw him miss. Was watchin other notables; slash and slice.. they were havin nooooo problems at all.
I MUST be inna slump. I've changed vid drivers; (twice) re-checked my connect profiles; kicked down the the game rez from 32bit hi-rez to 16bit low rez, and moved my convergence out in stages to now 650 yards; and started flying a B26.
I actually landed a kill last night!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Of course; that was before AKwulfie chased me into a damn cliff while I was gunnin him... and after Drill cut my B26 in half with rockets... but thats another post. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Things must be lookin up (except I'm spending more time lookin down thru a norden) and once I get a handle on whats wrong with my approach, I'll feel much better indeed.
Thanks fer the kind posts, guys!!
Hang
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Duckwing: I also have those nose bounce problems too when I fire guns. At first I couldn't hit nothing, but know I apply a little left rudder and the site doesn't move much. I don't know if this advice might help Hangtime at all, but its worth a shot. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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NHFoxtro
-XO- Night Hawks
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My gunnery went in the toilet when the new FM came out. Went from around 18% (I think) to somewhere around 2-3% but whatever I did I've brought it back up to I think it was around 11% last I checked. I think a combination of things could be the problem, planes pulling more G's harder turns, etc. I'd be interested to see if moving your convergence out to 350 or whatever it was Hang helps. I've steadly brought my convergence in (when I started flying the 4 .50 version of the p51) from around 425 to 350 where it's at now. Was considering going in closer but I'm getting good success now and if that could be the culprit I'll just leave things as they are now. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Yeah V-Sync should be on.
SKurj
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I've not noticed any changes in the gunnery, but I don't tend to shoot with any load on the plane at all. If anything, I consider the gunnery to be pretty forgiving, especially at long ranges.
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From the announcements forum,version 1.04 release:
"The fixed view mode was changed to maintain a fixed distance and viewing angle
from the plane."
I don`t know if this is a factor or not? I know my hit % has been in the toilet since 1.04 was released,I thought Win2K might have been a factor but have gone back to Win98 and the V770 4.01 drivers with no apparent change in my gunnery-I still can`t hit my targets. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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That's referring to the new F5 view mode.
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My gunnery went from .042 in tour 8 to .073 currently.
AKDejaVu
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As much as I hate to see a pony driver with a gunnery problem (http://smilecwm.tripod.com/sally/lol.gif) ........ Uh what was i saying.
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I think the pictures might be lying.
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Hmm.. my gunnery jumped back up to .1050 in two sessions.
I set the convergence at 650; all guns; and gave it a try.. seemed to help on those crossing defelection shots while I'm pulling some 'g's.
Somebody mentioned this 'raises' the bullet stream.
Seemed to work... tho the hit pattern and effectiveness in my usual gun range (275-350 yards) with normal tracking shots has actually decreased. A trade off..
Normally; my info has it that the guns are supposed to be angled up 12-15 degrees from level. Has anybody figured out if this is in fact how AH is set up?? Any way to check it? Sure wish this was an adjustable component of convergence settings.. this way I could adjust my convergence correctly for range AND deflection.
Another assist to the gun average is no doubt a result of straffing panzers... straffing vehicles does not decrease you gun hit percentage; straffing buildings/acks and other fixed game objects does.
Hang
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Originally posted by Hangtime:
Hmm.. my gunnery jumped back up to .1050 in two sessions.
I set the convergence at 650; all guns; and gave it a try.. seemed to help on those crossing defelection shots while I'm pulling some 'g's.
Somebody mentioned this 'raises' the bullet stream.
Seemed to work... tho the hit pattern and effectiveness in my usual gun range (275-350 yards) with normal tracking shots has actually decreased. A trade off..
Normally; my info has it that the guns are supposed to be angled up 12-15 degrees from level. Has anybody figured out if this is in fact how AH is set up?? Any way to check it? Sure wish this was an adjustable component of convergence settings.. this way I could adjust my convergence correctly for range AND deflection.
Another assist to the gun average is no doubt a result of straffing panzers... straffing vehicles does not decrease you gun hit percentage; straffing buildings/acks and other fixed game objects does.
Hang
you can move your gunsight higher within the template and then adjust the head position accordingly.
Not very scientific tho...haven't had to do that since I got the grasp of AH gunnery in beta.