Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: kj714 on May 06, 2004, 07:45:19 PM
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Dang, CH is expensive! Why is that? Is it that much better? What justifies the big bucks?
BTW, all you pedal guys, do you feel they are really worth it? Whats the durability?
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MS Prec Pro 2 is the best stick/set up I could ever ask for. I liked them so much that when they stopped making them I baught the last 3 they had for back ups.
And guess what. They are only about 40 bucks. No need for all that pricey crapola:D
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CH Products gear is top notch.I never did wear out my analog setup,it's in the closet,since I now use the pedals,Pro throttle,and Combat stick,USB.The old setup had several years on it,and was still going strong.
Buy your setup from Provantage, or something similar,and you'll get a better price.
Like the old saying goes,you get what you pay for!
IronDog
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I'm working out the kinks in a fresh USB system. Good quality, no complaints. I think it was $325 for USB fighter stick, pro throttle and pro pedals from provantage
I'm gonna love the setup once I'm used to it.
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
MS Prec Pro 2 is the best stick/set up I could ever ask for. I liked them so much that when they stopped making them I baught the last 3 they had for back ups.
And guess what. They are only about 40 bucks. No need for all that pricey crapola:D
Agreed! I had two of those. But I wanted to get away from gameport and move to USB. My MSPP2 would plug into my Creative SB Live Value sound card.
I upgraded my PC last Oct. ready for the imminent arrival of AH2, and got an Asus A7N8X-DLX mobo. A lot of us have that board. For years I've had a dual boot system with two hard disks. I used WMe for AH and W2000-Pro for everything else. Reason for using WMe was that the Profiling software that goes with the MSWPP2 stick would install to C:\WINDOWS. There was no way to make it install to C:\WINNT. And although W2000 provided some profiling ability, there was no way to program all those buttons the way the profiling software could do it. So I soldiered on with WMe.
When MS stopped supporting the MSPP2, I decided it was time to move on from WMe. Installed AH on my W2000 partition and got a Logitech 3D USB. Hated it. And then it started acting up, so I returned it and got the Saitek Cybord 3D I have now. Good stick, very good aiming stick, and easy to use from Day1. But the thumb buttons are too big - too easy to press by mistake, so I had to reprogram, and the button setup is nowhere near as good as what I had with the MSWPP2. But it's OK.
I had to get rid of the sound card though - couldn't get the right drivers for W2000-Pro. But the mobo audio is excellent. But of course I also lost the gameport, so MSWPP2 would do me no good now.
So Morpheus - I'm curious to know - what mobo do you have, and what OS? How do you alter elevator trim using that stick? One thing I'm beginning to see about these twisty stick setups is that if you want to be a T&B/Y&B turn-pilot, you need to be able to alter trim quickly. And neither your stick nor mine provides a trim wheel.
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For my computer you simiply cannot buy a better flight control rig than the CH setup. As mentioned above, I too have never completely worn out my CH analog setup. My old is in my closet as well. I use all the usb stuff now. And yes, rudders are VERY important if you wish to game at a competative level.
You will spend more on a CH setup, but in the end its worth it. That is if you plan to use your computer for gaming for more than 6months.. hehe
dude
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Well I'm with Morph on this one.
At the AH con 2002 I had the chance to fly 8 of my squadies setups.
Including a couple of all CH hotas systems.
Frankly I could not WAIT to get back home & get my hands back on my MS Sidewinder Prec 2 USB. I know, its not the gameport Prec Pro. But its so close in feel, and setup that switching is no problem.
As for the driver issue, I don't load em.
Plug it in when the computers on, it sees it,
and what mapping I do is done in AH.
(I'm a minimalist on stick mapping)
Trim, along with a LOT of other controls is on the keyboard. Which IMO is what the left hand is for. :)
Just picked up a spare prec 2 from ebay.
Box had been opened, if the stick had been flown it sure never showed it.
CD had never been out of the original wrapper. 28$ including shipping & I'm a happy camper.
So if you liked the Sidewinder Precision Pro, go find a good sidewinder Prec 2 USB.
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I am still using the CH analog stuff.. it is great stuff with the exception of the weak springs in the stick. They can hardly center the stick. I have modified mine with half inch rubber bands on all the axis.
I want to have a throttle and rudder... never could get into the twisty stick thing. Used to fly ultralights and you don't twist the stick for rudders.
lazs
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Hey KJ,
I really like the CH setup. I tried the Saitek setup and now it's sitting in the closet. Others swear buy it. One big difference between the two is that CH has almost no stick resistance. The Saitek has a lot. Obviously this is personal preference. There are things you can to reduce the resistance of the Saitek.
The Saitek is about $80.
You can pretty much program everything on the CH. I don't go to the keyboard except to type.
I have one problem. My current desk doesn't allow me to use my rudder pedals (I'll fix this eventually) so for now I'm using the mouse stick on the throttle as my rudder.
I have a Saito I can give you a good deal on. :D
-SickBird
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Originally posted by lazs2
I am still using the CH analog stuff.. it is great stuff with the exception of the weak springs in the stick. They can hardly center the stick. I have modified mine with half inch rubber bands on all the axis.
I want to have a throttle and rudder... never could get into the twisty stick thing. Used to fly ultralights and you don't twist the stick for rudders.
lazs
You could sheck out Home Depot, they have have a very large selection of springs. Found this out from my first stick, a POS and I forget the brand. Now I use a full analog CH setup still running after 5 to 6 years. Luckily Santa helped acquire some of it :)
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Ghosth - I never knew there was a USB version of the MSPP2 stick. :eek:
Yep, I know I'm an old fusspot when it comes to programming buttons etc. I spent some time this morning trying to figure out how to pre-program commands. Seems that for anything longer than 1 character, you have to program it as an "advanced" command or macro. Macro was fine for me. The software is clever, and even replicates the time interval between keystrokes when you programmed the button. But that can be overriden. So now I have two more buttons programmed - Personal preference, but I don't think AH allows buttons to be programmed like that.
Anyway, Ghosth - I'm like you - tried those fancy setups and didn't like 'em at all.
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When I came back to AH in Feb, 8 years after I quit AW, I had no gaming gear left. While I had tried CH back then and liked the reliability, but I had always been a full HOTAS TM guy because of the lack of programming and limited buttons on the CH sticks. I did a little research and the iffy reliability of the Cougar stuff made me go CH. I got the whole USB setup and I can say that I'd buy the whole thing again without hesitation. It wasnt cheap at $300+, but the CH stuff seems to be so reliable its a once every 5-10 year purchase so in that respect its cheap.
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lazs2,
I have the analog CH too. They are having a sale on their remaining analog gear. I just replaced my F-16 Combatstick with a new F-16 Fighterstick for $19.97! There was nothing wrong with the Combat Stick, I just wanted the additional 8 way hat and 4 way hat.
F-16 FighterStick
$19.97
Features one 8-way switch, three 4-way switches, three push buttons, trigger, added trim controls and rotary throttle. Gameport connection. Compatible with DOS, Windows 95 and 98.
I've found the springs in the FighterStick are much stiffer than the CombatStick. Took me a while to get used to the more heavy duty feel. A new FighterStick is actually cheaper than ordering new springs!
This might cure your spring problem....
http://www.chproducts.com/shop/page2.html (http://www.chproducts.com/shop/page2.html)
And the analog pedals are only $23.97 too.
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Well, I have put my HOTAS together over several years. I bought the USB Peds to go with my X-36's (2). Then I finally added a throttle to go with my MSPPFF (3) and my Logitech (3). I have finally added the Fighterstick.
Get the picture? How many sticks did I go through and I am still using the CH stuff?
Do it! Beware though the Combat and Fighter Sticks are for people with big hands! I had to modify mine. Go to ch-hangar.com for info.
GL
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I'm getting persuaded on this for sure!
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If you fly a lot or intend to fly for many years you won't be sorry!
There's more to it then what we said. The Control Manager is awesome. Example: I also fly Forgotten Battles. Only 1 ToeBrake can be assigned! Wierd huh? With the CM I can create a script then assign and split the axis so I have both TB's. They work as they should! Differentially and on their respective wheels.
Powerful software!
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mosq.. thanks. I ordered two combat sticks when mine finally went out for a total of about $30 I will go to USB stuff when I upgrade my puter but wantged to make sure I had a stick spare till then..
Oh... one of the new sticks had a short in the wiring... when you rolled right the views would not work for a while... too hard to fix so it is a spare parts one.. I used the pots on the old one with the bad pot. I have a spare throttle and a spare set of Tmaster rudders too. Should get me through till I have to convert to USB stuff.
I am hard on sticks because I am a dedicated furballer. The stiffest springs on CH stuff are about half what I want.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
Oh... one of the new sticks had a short in the wiring... when you rolled right the views would not work for a while...
lazs
If I am not mistaken most if not all of the combat Sticks, maybe just the Jane's Combatstick models had a defective wiring problem, ask Ack-Ack he use to be a Tech Rep for them back in early/mid 90's
all in all I love my CH stuff, except for my old Jane's Combatstick which had the same stinkin problem
I did fix mine though, took it apart cut out the pinched wire part and spliced back together
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Originally posted by lazs2
The stiffest springs on CH stuff are about half what I want.
lazs
You sound like a TM Cougar man.
Yes, some people issues with them... but as a Norwegian expression goes: "It does cost to be a MAN"
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couldn't see any place where it was obvious that the wire was pinched..
WAS a Tmaster guy... didn't even mind that they fell apart every six months or less... just kept shelling out that $100+ bucks for a new one and screwed it down to the bench.. Had to have the springs that were in those babies... they went out of bussiness and I had to go CH and rubber bands... would never go back. Better feel with the rubber bands anyhow and... don't have to put up with the totally worthless TM stuff anymore.
lazs
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MS PP2 is the nuts. Wont use anything else.
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All my old CH analog gear is still working fine on my backup machine. I bought the rudder and throttle new but the FFX stick was 5 years old when I bought it from an old AW mate, used it for 3 1/2 years and never any problems.
I got my CH USB gear only because of a computer upgrade to a system that doesn't support analog very well.
CH, IMO, is the best gear as far as durability goes, soft springs just need getting used too and the CM manager, although confusing at first, is easy to use after a bit of fiddling with.
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the soft springs are impossible to get used to. You have to do something. Fortunately the rubber band trick is a 5 minute at most mod. Don't really program em much. don't use half the buttons... never felt the need.
CH will wear out in a year or so if you play hard but that is still at least 3 times better than the TM's I used to use.
lazs
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Laz I asked recently how to make a CH stiffest ,Icer was kind enought to answer but I'm unsure of what the rubber O-ring is.
Is that ? :
(http://www.ac-reims.fr/datice/sti/module1/eleves1/lampe/appro/joint.jpg)
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Originally posted by lazs2
don't have to put up with the totally worthless TM stuff anymore.
lazs
Funny how people have totally different takes on the same things. I never had REAL issues with the old TM F22 gear or the new TM Cougar.
I have spent enough money on my TM Cougar (with mods) and Simped F16+ pedals to get me 8+ sets of "normal" sticks.
I'm a total dweeb...
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staffo.. that is an o ring. If I could post pictures I would show you what my mickey mouse setup looks like.
jodgi.. I am tough on stuff I can't imagine how the cougar would last any longer than all the other TM sticks I have used... bout 6 months.. A squadie who is as tough on stuff as I am has trashed his cougar allready.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
staffo.. that is an o ring. If I could post pictures I would show you what my mickey mouse setup looks like.
Email the pics to me and I'll host 'em for you. I do seem to remember the elastic band set up for your PC, but I was assuming that said elastic bands provided the power source for your system. :D;)
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Originally posted by lazs2
staffo.. that is an o ring. If I could post pictures I would show you what my mickey mouse setup looks like.
Good :)
Take beetle offer or setup and account on Saw's Picture hangar : here (http://www.onpoi.net/ah/create_account.php)