Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GtoRA2 on May 07, 2004, 11:29:49 AM
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My black lab Sadie, is limping really bad, she has always had a leg that was a little sensitive if she played really hard for a long time, but I never took her to the vet for it cause it was hard to get her to limp.
SO now the place I am living has stairs and I think she may have jumped down them and hurt herself, I come home from work and she is limping really badly. Sometimes I can hear her leg pop.
It is her left rear leg and I had her lay down and then moved her leg out to full extension and back and as it reaches about half extension, it pops. It is the same going back. The poping is right where the knee is? DO dogs have knees?
I know this dog, and I can tell this is not hurting her, at least not much. She does not whine or whimper.
I have a vet appointment in the morning, and I am dreading them telling me she needs surgery and paying thousands of dollars, I just can not afford to go back into debt. What I have no is bad enough.
This is really tearing me up, I know I am being a pessimist but I just can not see how this is going to be affordable to fix….
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Try to find an organization that helps cases like yours. Or a vet that does not charge enough. Dogs do have knees btw.
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I'd blow the dough, but I'm goofy about my lab. Now if it was the other dog we own, or one of the cats... maybe a long drive out to the desert would be fun.
(j/k peta members)
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My Aussie Shepard/Husky mix has a trick left knee. He's only 1, but if he runs too hard you'll hear him yelp and he'll stand there with his leg stuck out behind him. If you wait, he'll work it around until everything is back in place and he's good to go again.
There's not much we can do about it, and I know this will be expensive in the future, but he may be the best dog I've ever had.
To answer your question, first take your dog to the vet. This may be something she can live with if you limit her stair climbing activities. You may have to put up a gate and keep her off the stairs.
My dog can't jump into the truck because of his knee so I have to left his fat 70lb bellybutton up there ;) You may find yourself helping her up and down the stairs. Which, for a good Lab, is a small price to pay.
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MT,
I love this dog, damnit I did not want to get her, I KNEW how much work lab puppies are but the GF begged, and now she lives in WA and I am holding the bag....(this is the one thing over the years that REALLY pissed me off)
Godamn, I still am attached to this dog, and the thought of putting her down is heart braking.
Stabby, what do you mean orgs that can help? My mom said I might be able to find a vet school that would do it for free. My other problem is my boss is not going to be all that happy if I have to take time off to take care of the dog and or take it to the vet 2 times a week..... I do not have anyone to help with this with the GF in WA. My mom is local but after 13 back surgeries she is basicaly cripped and the dog could kill her, just cause she is about 80 pounds and clumsy... :(
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
MT,
I love this dog, damnit I did not want to get her, I KNEW how much work lab puppies are but the GF begged, and now she lives in WA and I am holding the bag....(this is the one thing over the years that REALLY pissed me off)
Godamn, I still am attached to this dog, and the thought of putting her down is heart braking.
Stabby, what do you mean orgs that can help? My mom said I might be able to find a vet school that would do it for free. My other problem is my boss is not going to be all that happy if I have to take time off to take care of the dog and or take it to the vet 2 times a week..... I do not have anyone to help with this with the GF in WA. My mom is local but after 13 back surgeries she is basicaly cripped and the dog could kill her, just cause she is about 80 pounds and clumsy... :(
Yea stuff like vet schools. Depending on your area there may be orgs that raise money for helping with vet bills. I have heard of them, but cannot name them off the top of my head.
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Damn I feel like such an *******, cause I am thinking about money versus a living thing, but putting myself super into debt is something I just fought out of and I am not even really all the way out.
I am going to be bouncing of the walls tell the monring when I find out what the deal is.
Dune,
I thought about it being like yours, and it would maybe be ok if I kept her off the stairs. It may help cause she is a dope and runs up and down them all the time.
She is a really smart dog, the smartest I have ever owned.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Damn I feel like such an *******, cause I am thinking about money versus a living thing, but putting myself super into debt is something I just fought out of and I am not even really all the way out.
I am going to be bouncing of the walls tell the monring when I find out what the deal is.
Dune,
I thought about it being like yours, and it would maybe be ok if I kept her off the stairs. It may help cause she is a dope and runs up and down them all the time.
She is a really smart dog, the smartest I have ever owned.
You have to do what you have to do.
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We've spent about $2,000 on our puppy in the last year.
- Ate some advil and almost died
- x2 growths removed
- usualy puppy expenses
- Bit through an electrical cord
He's the best little dog I've ever owned or known. Fiesty, smart, super friendly, hasn't met a person or dog that he didn't like and a trip to the vet is still like a trip to Disneyland for him because it means new people and new dogs to meet. Worth every penny to me and my wife, but YMMV.
Charon
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I had to put down my crime fighting Dane 'Astro' as well as her littermate 'Kiki' this past December. We replaced them with another Dane and a rescue puppy of questionable pedigree within a week.
Five years ago Astro developed a yeast infection in one of her ears that antibiotics couldn't cure. It got so bad that she had a hard time eating because of the pain. Given the choice of euthanizing her or surgery I didn't hesitate in opting for the surgery. The wife and I have never had kids and our dogs fill that gap quite well and that was the driving force for us to spend the $2.500 to have one of her ear canals removed.
Astro lived to catch 2 car burglars on my property and was one of the best dogs I ever had.
Whether you spend the money or not I'm sure the decision you make will be the right one for your situation.
My vet is a partner with the local animal hospital and he made it possible for us to pay in installments over a few months so our budget didn't get too screwed up.
Check it out, animal hospitals are much more foregiving than those for us humans in regards to payment...vets are, for the most part, very compassionate and will help where they can, unlike their counterparts who treat humans.
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Labs are often afflicted with hip displaysia (sp?).
Because labs were so popular several years ago, breeders were willing to breed dogs that had a proclivity for this disease out of greed. Of course, the unfortunate consequence is the dogs suffer. The disease can be treated with medication and excercise in many cases for a long time, up to the life of the dog. It is important to get it diagnosed as early as possible and begin treatment with medication, excercise, and diet.
While my lab, who lived to be almost 15 years old was not afflicted with this condition, my wife's beloved Rottie has a very mild case. She is healthy and happy, and it appears she'll live a long life with few ill effects.
All is not lost, surgery may not be necessary, at least not now, and the cost of treatment may not be nearly so high as you fear. In many cases, there is no major cost, no major ill effects if properly managed, and the dog will live a healthy, happy, and mostly normal life. Owning a good person is the key to how well the dog does.
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GTO...it sounds like a torn anterior cruciate ligament. My dog had it happen to both knees...and yes they do have knees.
The first op he had I was short of cash...so I called and made an appointment at a vet in the country (about an hour or a bit more outside Toronto). The bill was substantially less than they had quoted me at the animal hospital I initially took him to in the city.
Here's the kicker though....they fixed it, but they gave him no pain killers at all after the operation. The poor dog wouldn't use his leg for about 8 months....so he weakened the other leg, which blew about a year after he finally put his leg that was operated on down.
The second op cost me a fortune. BUT...he walked out of the operation. They had him on lots of pain killers and the doctor did a fantastic job. He never developed any arthritis in that kneee to the day he died. The first op knee basically looked like it had a gnarled tennis ball under the skin there was so much arthritis.
So...check it out. Call around to as many vets in the surrounding region as you can, get estimates and then think seriously how much you want to spend.
I loved my dog man...but I just didn't have the cash the first time around. I had exactly the same dilemah you are in.
Be prepared for a massive cut on your dog's leg if he has this surgery. The ligaments are small so they have to open the leg right up to get in there. Mine had a cut running from his thigh to jst below his knee. No such thing as arthoscopic surgery for dogs that I am aware of....and even if it did exist it would be beyong the price range you are in for with the regular surgery. I have a picture of him after his first op if you want to see it.
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I'd pay thousands for my dog, she and he are my family...
You shouldn't have to think about it...
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Had our cat (a stray kitten that adopted us) get attacked by a hawk and it ended up w/ a badly broken leg. A .45 round costs a quarter, my wife wanted to save the kitten. Guess who won...$2500.00 later. One of our dogs(the same dog that saved the cat from the hawk before it was killed so I could spend $2500.00 to get it put back together) nabbed some raw chicken off the counter in the kitchen then had a violently allergic reaction that caused it's immune system to begin attacking the dog's red blood cells. Three blood transfusions, numerous vet vistis and $3000.00 later the dog that wasn't gonna make it is sleeping under my desk as I type this.
If you love the dog, spend the money... you can always get more money and a good dog is almost like a family member.
Good luck, hopefully it's just loose ligaments and something your dog can live with.
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Capt V,
I was a little worried about hip stuff but I did not by her from a breeder, just a hunter with a litter. But I did think it was her hips at first though now since I can feel her knee pop I think Curval is on the right track..
Thanks for the info Curv...
You guys are giving me some hope......
I will find out tommorow from the vet.
this is all pretty upseting.... another reason I did not want to get a dog again.
when I had to put my first lab down, after having her for 17 years, pretty much from 1 first grade tell my early twenties, it broke my heart. I cried like a baby, emberased the hell out of myself at the vet. I can just image what the people in the waiting room were thinking seeing a 250 pount guy run out sobbing.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
I can just image what the people in the waiting room were thinking seeing a 250 pount guy run out sobbing.
No shame in that man. When I had to put down my dog I was a blubbering mess. I actually hyperventilated and almost passed out.
Tough day...very tough day.
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I wouldn't put a price on my dogs. My border collie came down with parvo virus a week after we got him. $1,000 and over a week spent at the hospital later, and he's the best dog I've ever had. At the time it seemed like a lot of money, but if I had to make a decision like that again it'd be a no-brainer.
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I cried like a baby, emberased the hell out of myself at the vet.
I don't see where you have anything to be embarrassed about.
You lost what you felt was a member of your family. Trust me, no-one at the vet is going to think anything less of you if you get upset.
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GtoRA2, sorry to hear about Sadie. It sounds like a luxating patella, where the kneecap moves in and out of position. It could also be a ruptured cruciate ligament, which is common in labs this age, but doesn’t usually cause a pop.
But the first step is to get her looked at. The veterinarian may be able to tell you what it is by examining her or they may need to take an x-ray.
Based on that, they can discuss the options with you, including an estimate of the cost. There are often several options for this type of thing and they can help you decide what’s best in your case. It could even be something that will heal with just rest and time.
If it does come to something expensive, ask about making payments and ask if they use CareCredit.
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My Min Pin has had the the same problem for about 3 years now....he is 7. Took him to the vet right after I noticed him sticking his leg out and hopping around, he didn't seem to be in any pain just annoyed.....the vet said it would be around 2500 and no guarantees.....he also said unless he fully looses his leg it will just come and go, so I put him on calcium and createn but every now and then it will pop out so I just massage it back in...pop....and he's good to go. I did notice it happens more in the winter time than summer, like if he walks on ice or something slick.
He has never yelped or anything and now he just comes to me to massage it back in. If you lose a cherished pet don't forget to sing for them so they can find their way to the happy hunting ground. sorry for the long post.........
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Patella or ACL injury, either way it looks like your dog's football career is over.
Time to bring in a puppy, so Sadie can get her coaching position started. :p
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Do a search for a procedure called a TPLO
I had it done to our Akita and she is better than new.
But Its exspensive 2k on average.
http://www.veterinaryspecialties.com/tplo.htm
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My Bro-In-Law's Austrailian Sheppard "Lefty" has fallen off a moving vehicle (over 30mph) and been run over twice and kicked in the head by a horse. Lefty's lucky their next door neighbor is a Vet and close friend. Total Vet bill: $0
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Capt V,
I was a little worried about hip stuff but I did not by her from a breeder, just a hunter with a litter. But I did think it was her hips at first though now since I can feel her knee pop I think Curval is on the right track..
Thanks for the info Curv...
You guys are giving me some hope......
I will find out tommorow from the vet.
this is all pretty upseting.... another reason I did not want to get a dog again.
when I had to put my first lab down, after having her for 17 years, pretty much from 1 first grade tell my early twenties, it broke my heart. I cried like a baby, emberased the hell out of myself at the vet. I can just image what the people in the waiting room were thinking seeing a 250 pount guy run out sobbing.
The biggest reason hip displaysia came to mind is that you described it as a somewhat long term condition. It struck me as being the same as my wife's Rottie. She has the same occaisional limp, sometimes more pronounced than others. It does at times have a popping feel to it as the joint is not as tight and solid. On the medication for joints, with excercise, and keeping her lean and muscular, the problem rarely raises its ugly head, often only associated with exuberent behaviour and weather changes. When it is not giving trouble, the joint actually feels very normal both to me and the vet.
Good luck, I know how you feel about your dogs, I feel the same. We lost my first Rottie, Manfred, when he was a pup, my stupid prettythang sister in law exposed the whole litter to Parvo, and my wife took the dog to her mother's favorite vet. Bad mistake. My vet rarely if ever loses a pup to Parvo so long as it is brought in without excessive delay. I cried for three days, and still tear up at the thought. He was an incredible pup, with an excellent bloodline and perfect features, along with the best attitude and personality I've seen in a dog in years. On the otherhand, as much as it hurts when we lose a dog, I'd never consider being without one. We have two Rotties now, or rather my wife does. One is a pup we got from her mother before she quit breeding them, the other is an abused Rottie we rescued and adopted. As good natured a dog to have been so terribly abused as you could possibly imagine. The truth is, the two of them have us, we just like to believe this is our house. Actually, they just let us live here because it seems to be convenient for them. Just don't mess with the kids or my wife.
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I'd put it down.
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I'd put it down.
Disturbing when you watch your avatar and reading the above statment.
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Originally posted by Maniac
Disturbing when you watch your avatar and reading the above statment.
Sorry... Wife, children, house, etc... Pets fall of the priority list a lot quicker.
That being said, I just spent $350 on my dog's teeth.
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it broke my heart. I cried like a baby, emberased the hell out of myself at the vet. I can just image what the people in the waiting room were thinking seeing a 250 pount guy run out sobbing.
I had 4 year old Rott I lost. 140 lbs of joy. He was absolutely the best dog Ive ever known. He had a congenital heart defect and died in my arms in the damn living room. I was a 275lb blubbering mess, Im welling up just typing this and he's been gone 2 years in July.
FOR GODS SAKE FIX YOUR DOGS LEG!!!!!! :D
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One of our beloved Dobies came down with a bad case of cancer. This was about 14yrs ago. It was suggested we put her under chemo and have surgery done. Vet then turned around and offered little hope of survival. I bawled like a baby, holding this pet as she was put to sleep, I just couldn't bring myself to put her through a fruitless exercise in veterinary medicine.
Now, in your case... I'd have to think long and hard about it. The surgery might not be as much as you think, and the vet might work with you on it. Last case I had (another Dobie... Liver cancer this time) the vet did exploratory surgery and discovered the problem. Dog had been at the vet for awhile. Vet called during the surgery and informed us his liver was badly infected with cancer... so we sadly told him not to revive old "Guiness". Whole episode was just under $500, thanks to a caring, understanding Vet.
T.
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check to see if an organization called Dove-Lewis operates in your town.
I'm not sure if they are nation wide or just Portland.
when my brothers dog was hit by a car, and we couldn't locate it for a week or more, we eventually found him at the pound. he had hip surgery and other medical work done by this organization before he was taken to the pound. they did this work before they ever knew if there would be someone to pick up the tab. we did reimburse them a very reasonable fee, though it was very minor (under $150).
they do work on unclaimed animals and donated or lowered cost for animals in need. a great hospital/organization
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Dogs, what would you do if yours needed possibly thousands spent at the vet?
I don't have dogs, just cats. I'd put 'em down.
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what I've done in the past. a .22 to the back of the head. that's why I have cats now. dogs become to much a part of you.
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Sucks having to show your humanity dont it.
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Originally posted by Maniac
Disturbing when you watch your avatar and reading the above statment.
What is with the people getting disturbed about Sandy's avatard? It's a scene from Office Space, of some guys taking revenge on a defective fax machine that frustrated them daily.
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Wait till you get the diagnosis. Decide then. You may be getting all worked up for no real reason.
As to the original question:
Most guys here know my Labs are very important to me. I have, in the past, spent thousands in vet care trying to "save" them.
After having done it and still feeling like shirt when they had to be euthanized, I've come to an agreement with myself.
If there's a chance of recovery to a somewhat "normal" life for the dog for a "reasonable" period of time, I'll spend the money.
However, if I'm merely extending their lives using "life support" measures and they're not going to be cured, I'm going to show them the mercy and respect they have earned.
I had two dogs with kidney failure. I fought it and fought it with dollars but there is no cure. I came to the conclusion that I hadn't done them any favors. After a certain point, they are not living anything like a "normal life". I won't do that again.
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I'd kill the dog myself. But I don't like dogs.
If it was my cat however, I wouldn't hesitate to pay it.
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One of my cats late last year shattered the part of his leg between his shoulder and elbow (shattered as in fragments), I had to go to a specialist to get him fixed. They had to wire all the pieces they could find, back together and put a pin in. Cost just over 2k. (good thing I had recently gotten my first credit card)
Plus the rehab, making sure he couldn't hurt himself around the house, basically quarentining him to one room where he'd be safe.
I even took my bed apart and laid my mattress on the floor so he could sleep with me at night and rest there during the day without trying to jump up or down.
They are my family and before anything else in my life except my mother. But in my mind, that's what I agreed to when I took them into my home.
Now I'll have to wait to buy some of the things I wanted, but at nite I can still hear his happy fat furry arse snoring away. ;)
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In all honesty, it really depends on the dog and how close I am with it. My grandmother owns 2 yorkies, one I grew up with since the 3rd grade that is close to 14 now, and one that is 3 and I have had in my house for about a year. If something were to happen to the older one, I would sell my car to fix him if I had to. The younger one could be replaced. It's all in their personality. The old one will do anything for you and never ask for anything in return, the young one could care less about you and only needs you for food and water.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
What is with the people getting disturbed about Sandy's avatard? It's a scene from Office Space, of some guys taking revenge on a defective fax machine that frustrated them daily.
Thank you!
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Great flick.:D
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Gto - just go to the vet and see what the problem is. You arent doing yourself or your dog ay good by sitting around worrying about it.
Once you know, you can figure out how to deal with it. It might not be as bad as you think.
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Thanks guys.
Lots of good input, it is also nice t ok know others out there feel the same about there pets.
I am dreading tomorow.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/314_1079984608_dogcatbox2.jpg)
thats Sadie a few months ago, with her buddy the stains... lol the kitty went with the GF... but they may be reunited, when I move to WA.
They were a riot together.
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What is with the people getting disturbed about Sandy's avatard? It's a scene from Office Space, of some guys taking revenge on a defective fax machine that frustrated them daily
Idiots. I know that. Saw the movie like two weeks ago...
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she is a fine looking lab.
Something similar hapenned to my german shepard this past year - he hurt his knee and was not walking on it and obviously in a lot of pain.
The vet gave him the doggie equivalent of motrin and some other pill and we had to keep the dog from running and jumping as much as we could for a few weeks and he was as good as new.
good luck
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I had the same situation about 7 years ago. One Vet wanted $2,500 for surgery. I got a second opinion and that Vet wanted to try Rimadyl before trying the surgery route. KC was running around just fine with Rimadyl twice a day. After 6 years of treatment, we changed over to Deramaxx and Cosequin. The newest treatment is working very well. :)
KC is almost 14 years old.
(http://www.332nd.org/dogs/ozark/KC-Fall2002-rs4.JPG)
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Originally posted by strk
The vet gave him the doggie equivalent of motrin and some other pill and we had to keep the dog from running and jumping as much as we could for a few weeks and he was as good as new.
good luck
I think the drugs called Ramidil or something like that. It is great for relieving cronic pain, my 12 yo. dogs played like pups after a day or two on it.
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I was a 275lb blubbering mess
a 250 pount guy run out sobbing
Dam, we got some big babies in here.
:eek: :D
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Well I just got back from playing poker. The vet trip was good.
It is her knee cap. It is popping out of the groove it moves in. They said if she takes it easy it may get better, but surgery is prolly the way to go.
The vet gave me tons of number to call for surgions, and she is going to see if any can do it at her shop, and then I could make payments. She is going to call on monday.
Her hips and legs checked out well other then the knee problem.
so I am hoping the knee thing is not too pricey.
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Excellent.